Hi I`ve got an old Fiat Allis SL9 track excavtor. The pump who is made in italy on licence from Bosch has to be serviced at specialist. To save myself from a lot of work due to little knowledge I like to check here for advise about removing and installing the pump. I am aware that usually the pump shall be removed with first cylinder in top dead center The engine is a 4 cylinder fiat, it has a opening in the bottom where I can turn the flyweel until I find two marks, no degrees just a mark saying PMS and another saying INITZ. I assume PMS is same as top dead center? but it dont fit with the valves? The engine also have a opening on the rear left, (looking from behind) this hole is about 9 oclock or 45 degrees This hole also have a kind of "arrow" who I assume that I should aligne the PMS mark against... This before I take the pump out... If anybody have experience with this please share
Is there not an inspection cover on the timing housing cover that lets you into the nut and spring washer holding the pump to the gear.Most of the Bosh pumps I have removed or seen removed have a woodruff key on the tapered drive shaft so the pump can only be fitted in on position...the timing marks are only used on a rebuild of the lump, can't say I have seen them used for a pump removal.Mark the side of the pump mounting flange prior to the loosening of the 13mm nuts that keep the pump locked in position as these mounting are slotted to allow the pump body to be advanced or retarded as necessary to get a better firing point and by doing this saves a lot of hassle refitting the pump as all you have to do is align the body mark to the timing cover mark and Bob's your uncle, job done..
Hi Stock and thanks As I understand you there should be no need to adjust to TDC on engine and that sounds OK as long as engine is not turned and if pump axel has a wedge or something (im not sure what woodruff key is) I will check again for inpection cover, but I have not found any . The only thing is a speedometer cover/conection and in front two covers over the gear From working on truck (Scania) I know that o mark on pump and degree on flyweel works to get it right, but if this bosch pump has some other thing to make it easy its fine.. i hope so
Hi tomsa. It's hard for us to say for sure what your pump mounting is like because injection pumps a mounted in various ways. What stock is telling you is that "most" Bosch pumps have a tapered shaft on the front of it with a keyway for a Woodruff key, which is a key that looks like a half moon. The access cover that stock is referring to is on the front of the motor. On taper shaft/keyway mounting, you usually remove a cover on the front of the motor to access the nut on the end of the pump shaft that retains the drive gear on the shaft. If you have a cover on the front of the engine at pump drive gear; 1) remove cover. Then inspect what's in there. Is there a single nut on the pump shaft? Or is there 3 or 4 bolt heads that retain the gear to a hub on the pump. Look at things closely to deterimine what you have. If you have a single nut on the end of the shaft, this is going to be easy. 2) loosen the nut but don't remove completely. 3) mark position of pump mounting to engine as stock suggested. This is your reference point on re-install to place pump back where it was originally oriented. 4) Loosen mounting nuts, slide pump back until gear hits bottom on gear housing. Use two prybars on each side of the pump nose plate to apply slight pulling pressure to unseat gear on tapered shaft. You might need to give the pump shaft a little tap on the end with a brass hammer to unseat gear/shaft. Once the gear pops loose, your ready to remove shaft nut and pump mounting nuts. Let us know if your mounting is different, that might be more complex.
How to change diesel fuel pump: Here's a picture of Woodruff keys, in the center... cutters are on the outside. Also, a link to what looks to be a fairly informative page on wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milling_cutter OCR
That's quite a selection of Woodruff cutters you have there OCR!
How to change diesel fuel pump: Yes, and I try to keep them nice... I don't like to get too much swarf build up, either... OCR...
If you use them to cut into aluminum...use beeswax on the cutters.
How to change diesel fuel pump: I do, but the only time I usually mill aluminum, is for the valve seat inserts on Stihl chain saws... :lmao OCR
And the wife ask my "why I love this forum" ,thanks guys Tomsa can you photograph the front end of that pump and the side of it as I think that may be a MIMTEC pump with a clamp type coupling .
Hi there Guys and Thanks Ill take my camera and take some more pictures It is a bit tight there but I try The pump number is bosch OM Licenza diesepumpe serienr: 01793 type: PES 4A 90B 410L4 /186 RPVA 325-1050F 222
Hi agiain I did not take it out today... I better discuss this with You guys a little more In the front end there is a gear and in the middel som kind of lock I hope You can see from pictures in windows live galleri, link here http://cid-43a055dbd2dc8dd3.skydriv...Fiat Allis SL9?authkey=vFtYCMDnU88$&ct=photos
Pics look ok tomsa. A few are a little blurry, but there's enough there to tell this ain't a simple tapered shaft with a nut. I did one similar to this on an old Allis Chalmers HD6 with a Buda engine, but that was about 15 years ago, too many years to remember much about it. That's a fairly clear pic looking down on it from the top (#6), and it looks like the tach drive section would have to have a support bearing between tach drive gear and pump shaft drive gear at the front because that would be an awful long pump shaft going through all of that. I'm wondering if it has a spline coupling for pump shaft to go into tach drive section? Can you get a look down in the tach drive hole (#12) and tell what might be in there. If it's a spline connection, it's possible you simply remove the pump mounting nuts (where you have that chiseled alignment mark) and slide the pump out. If that's so, first thing you want to do is make sure the engine is TDC. Since we're unsure what the TDC marks are or where they are, do it the sure fire way. 1) Verify which way the crank rotates. Most turn clockwise, but it's always smart to verify. 2) Remove the injector for #1 piston. 3) Bar engine over at crankshaft while holding your thumb over injector hole. When piston comes up on compression stroke, you'll feel the pressure with your thumb. Stop barring engine when compression stops, and back up a bit. Place a long/slender screwdriver (or a welding rod with the flux knocked off) down into injector hole until it touches top of piston. Slowly bar engine. The piston will raise your screwdriver/rod. You will be able to determine when piston reaches TDC. Actual pump timing will be some degrees advanced of this position, somewhere between 8 - 12 degrees, but TDC is usually a good spot to perform pump removal. Also, since your on TDC, you can look around the engine and see if there are some marks that now line up. Hopefully, now you can remove your pump. A pump shop should be able to show you how to reset the pump to #1 TDC position. If the pump doesn't slip out of a spline coupling, then your probably going to have to do the frontal approach. That's what I had to do on the Fat Allis with the Buda, just can't remember what all was involved.
Hi ATCOEQUIP and thanks for helpfull info. In the speedometer hole there is only a round gear to fit with axel wo is pullet oot from there, no spline. Reaching in to the end of axel from front will men a lot of cover removing i think maybe eveb radiator, the lock is quite far in there. I go for engine in TDC and try to remove it. The mark was done buy prior owner in 2003 The pump was serviced then. However he could not remember how it was taken out. I think the TDC is a good approach. However it will have to wait untill weekend I had to go to Bergen today. I also talked with a guy who might have some old manuals today... hope he calls back Anyway I will update you all as soon as I have it out (will be fun to see what marks will align at TDC) Regards Tom
Once you get it on TDC, before you start taking things apart from the front, I think I would loosen the pump mounting nuts where the chisel mark is and see if the pump comes out. I have seen injection pump drives that have a tab on the front of the shaft that's offset from center which fits into an offset notch of the driving shaft, which would be the speedo housing shaft in your case, allowing removal of pump without major disassembly. You've got nothing to lose trying this, and it just might come right off. That would be cool!
Nice
Hi Now it`s of... I used the trick from atcoequip with weldrod in cylinder to make absolute sure where TDC was... and suddenly all the marks was where they should be. Valve clearance on cylincer number one was no 100% thoug? When on TDC i loosen the pump and it came right off, no woodruf or other lock, just a sleeve / spline collar with a steering inside... Take a look http://cid-43a055dbd2dc8dd3.skydriv...Fiat Allis SL9?authkey=vFtYCMDnU88$&ct=photos No I take it to the specialist and if he is not to expensive I might have it running soon... I will keep You posted about insertion and starting also Thanks
this is a master spline an should only go on one way to both the pump and drive to ensure that the timing is correct ,it is apparent that the setting up of the timing was unnecessary,just watch it on the reassembly.
It seems very smart this master spline, I wish I new before. But better safe than sorry....
Yeeee Haaaaa!!! :woohoo
Ya did it again Atco
LoL...sometimes ya just gotta quit studying it and say "aww to heck with it...let's see what this does!"
Hi Guys, That ATCO is as handy as a pocket on a shirt.
Heck, I'm just here havin' too much fun!
In my neck of the woods we say "handier than a small pot"
Hi Guys Fuel Pump specialist has gone mad.... indicates 2400 USD to service the pump Anyone who knows how to service diesel puel pumps as this old type. What to do and what NOT to do We might start a new tread on this matter "old Diesel Fuel Pump overhaul" or something...
$2,400!!! :OMG For that he should be pulling a new one out of a box and handin' it to ya! Maybe you have some kind of weird pump that's expensive to work on, but I've NEVER had to pay 2,400 to rebuild any pump! I believe I'd get a brand name of the pump and get some numbers off of it and do some internet research and see what other options you might have. :Banghead
OMG ) Yes I cant pay that much, its more than the old digger is worth... Maybe there is someone out ther who can help to locate a similar pump in good shape? Bosch diesel fuel pump OM licenza (means its made in italy on licence from Bosch and also is responsible for parts) serial number: 01793 type: PES 4A 90 B 410 L4 /186 RPVA 325-1050F 222
diesel pumpe These boys may be able to help.
Hey, that's pretty cool Stock! I'm curious to see what comes back.
Hi There guys Just a little update... the Fiat Allis excavtor is still running. Hadde to put in a new pump thoug. The mecanics in the old one was destroyed. Now it has workled for a long time but ive got some hydraulic leak from the swing and also from the solenoid of the bucket return gasket.. I had to change my user since mail provder shut down.. I may not post pics yet.. but I get there I got so much good advise last time that I give this I try to Any tips about swing leaks I think it must be top of reduction gear or swing motor Any tips about detaching solenoid.. It just attached with two unbraco (hexagon) bolts