I have a Volvo 210 2008 that was running great and been using the heck out of it for the last week and just now it started to defuel and throw up a warning light. it has oil What would cause it to derate the engine and just keep beeping with the error taking up the whole screen. how do I check a code on this this
What series, B or C
Sorry says it’s a ec210c
From main menu, scroll down to service, press and hold enter key. Display will say, now entering service mode. Flash and you'll be in service mode. Scroll down to messages , you should see a list if SAE codes. Tell us whatcha got going on in there.
Ok I will when I get back to the farm thank you very much I owe this forum so much
Ok I’m in service mode and in vehicle. Messages is there a way to delete them so I know what the new codes are there a few in here
With the engine off on each message is says fault not Active. But when I start the machine up it goes to a shut down engine with a beep and a red circle light and I can’t check codes with that on
IM posting all but the low fuel message and ac and Interior temperature fault the date was set to 2/30/20 I just updated it now
Some more
No, they stay till new ones come up or someone with techtool clears them off. Look at the hours when the error occurred for relevance.
Some more
Almost post all
My great luck
Maybe code PSID202-12 is the one with the closest date 20290827 the dates don’t seem to make sense on some of the errors codes
By the looks of it the only one with engine fault is SE2302
I'll look these up tomorrow, we'll see what we're up against
I have encountered this before and it will not log a code in the message display, but it does log a code and you will need tech tool to see. What is likely happening is you are losing pressure in the common rail and the engine is derated to protect the fuel system. There are a number of reasons that this will happen. The least expensive route is to change your fuel filters. also check the fuel pressure at the filter minimum should be around 75- 80 psi at idle. Do not attempt to check pressure at the common rail. There is extremely high pressure and it should only be checked using tech tool. There's a long drawn out process to narrow down the issue and you will need special made fittings to even carry out the diagnostics. You may have to call a dealer out or hire a mechanic who has the ability and knowledge to troubleshoot hpcr fuel system. Good luck and I hope that this will help.
Thank you I am working on getting a fuel filter and will work on checking the fuel pressure. Is there a in tank pump that pushes 79-80 psi to the filter ?
Belt driven pump on front of engine. Brings fuel from tank through water separator, into the pump, out to secondary filter through FCV onto high pressure pumps and off to rail.
Todays update replaced second filter waiting on the first filter with water Separated to get here. Then I’ll try starting it. I cut open the fine second filter The pleats were black and a small film of almost slimy Black grease on out side of filter pleats inside looked clean. Hoping this is it but the engine would run up to full rpms for 30 seconds . Before going into limp mode and same amount of time at idle and it would do the same.
That falls in line with what Paul described. The display should have shown engine failure while the red central warning was flashing. You should be able to enter service mode prior to starting. Observe both fuel pressures while it's running when you get it running again. Also, if possible, drain some fuel from the tank into a clear jug, let it settle and see what you got.
It seems that you have algae in your fuel. And that could be the problem. Your low pressure fuel system isn't building enough pressure and supply to satisfy the high pressure system and then it triggers a code, then derates the engine. You possibly are on your way to fixing the problem. I don't have any advice for what to do about algae. That isn't a problem hear in Texas. I have only seen it from auction machines and a machine that has sat for a long time.
“Slimy black grease” = algae..? Sounds awfully like it. It may pay you to do some cleaning of the tank and dose it with algicide when you refill it, otherwise the new fuel filters will probably plug in short order.
Well it was an auction machine then the guy that bought it ended up getting sick and not using it for a year. When I bought it I put in a bottle of diesel cleaned bio formula Ran it for a few tankfuls and when my filters came in planned on replacing them. Slowly changing all filters and system fluids to start fresh. I just find it weird that it would make it through the first filter the water separator and then plug up the second. I’m hoping this fixes it didn’t know algae would be blackish and it’s not a a lot on the surface of the filter
Well replaced both filters didn’t fix the issue. I only have a few seconds before it goes In limp mode with the beeping red turn engine off that take up whole screen.
Also the water Separator fuel filter when I cut it open it looked pretty good. The pics I took in the above post was 5-10 second after starting on idle
Your low pressure system is good but the high pressure system is to low. This is where things get complicated. you could have injectors failing and returning to much fuel, you can have a failed high pressure pump, or a failed relief valve on the common rail. Or a faulty sensor. The problem can be isolated but this is where tech tool and those specialized fittings come into play. Unfortunately most mechanics these days don't understand the system and would have you change parts until it runs or have you replace the whole system. If you have a dealer come out and check it ask questions. How do you know it's my injectors, relief valve, sensor, high pressure pumps, or common rail. A good mechanic will have no problem explaining how he found the problem. I personally like to explain the failure and how the system works and how I determined the problem. I think it' gives the customer confidence in making a decision.
Agree 100% with Paul on this. In my experience, it has almost always been an injector allowing too much return. Not to say other components could not have failed, it's just unlikely.
O man I’ve been trying to track down a mobile Mechanic. Know of any with in 200 miles of 97801? kinda in a time crunch this area got hit in a massive flood which was the reason I brought the Volvo I lost everything else I had. would it be worth while to have a cat mech come look at it ? I have some tools for working on Cummins 6.7. I can do limited high pressure testing. Can you give me some ideas what to try ? if you want I can call you and pay for for your advise to get me going in a Direction
There are dealers all around you. https://www.volvoce.com/united-stat...86532806&longitude=-123.28707668023564&zoom=5
The problem is that all of the return lines for the injectors, common rail, and fuel control valve meet together in one spot on the head. That is why special fittings are needed so that you can isolate each one and measure the amount of return fuel from each component. This sort of thing is to hard to convey from thousands of miles away on how to go about testing return for each component.
I have a call in at 3 places waiting to hear back closest one is 4 hours out. And there going to figure prices and see when they can and some one out. Might take a few shots in the dark with parts what’s the easiest to change first ? what might stick open on a cold start let it run for a min shut it off and restart wouldn’t have any issues with the rest of the day or week ? it threw the same screen and told me to shut it off a few times before and then it went away ?
Relief valve on the common rail would be the easiest thing to change.
ok working on tracking down some parts still no info on if i can get some one to come out and fix it. how much fuel should come out the bleed hole in injector ? thinking i might pull them out and check them
What you will need to do is find a way to isolate all of the returns. there at the flywheel end of the engine on the head is where all of the fuel returns for the injectors ( which comes directly from the head) common rail and fuel control valve meet. There are three lines connected to that fitting on the head. One line from the rail, one line from the fuel control valve and a third going back to tank. Your measurements will be taken from what returns from the injectors and the rail. If you can find a way to isolate those and have them flow into a graduated beaker you can then measure and find which is failing. When it comes to the fuel control valve it is best to find a way to have it return back into the tank or a five gallon bucket. This return flow is not important but it returns a massive amount of fuel in a short period of time and thus return it back to tank or into a five gallon bucket. Once you can find a way to isolate the injector return and common rail return, run the engine for one minute ( best if you have a helper at this point) and see how much fuel has returned from each. When it comes to the common rail you don't want to see any return at all. As for the injectors you will see return fuel. I don't have the specs for the amount off the top of my head, but if you can fill a normal single use water bottle halfway or better in that time frame. Then you have a failed injector or injectors. If that's the case I advise you to to go ahead and change all injectors. I tell all my customers that the labor costs are the same for replacing one injector as all of them. So I don't ever go through the process of of finding which injector failed and it is then you will need special block off caps to even figure out which injector failed. In the case that you don't have any return out of the rail and a acceptable amount of return from the injectors then you have a high pressure pump failing. Again I advise to replace both pumps because it then takes yet another special made fitting to figure which pump has failed. And the labor costs are the same to replace both as of one. With that all being said I would pull up the screen with the fuel pressure readings one more time. I stated earlier that your low pressure readings are good but I forgot to mention that you can see a good reading one minute and see it drop off in the next. If that's the case then you will have a overflow valve sticking open and dumping all the fuel that is going to the high pressure pumps. This valve is located in the fuel control valve and is on the bottom side and you will need to remove the control valve to access it. Be careful when working on the common rail and do not have your hands near when opening any part of it. If you have to perform any work on the rail give it 5 minutes and the pressure will be dissipated. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress and findings. Not only will it satisfy my ego and curiosity it will help others seeking answers as well.
So, back to draining fuel off the bottom. What did the settled fuel do / look like? This is important before replacing any parts.
Is there a lower drain on the Main fuel tank or do you mean filter . I will be starting to do the tests and measurement hopefully this week if not this weekend for sure I will update.
Thank you very much for the help to start tracking it down. I’m pretty sure this engine is a Deutz 1013. I have to volvo top plate engine model and SN is the SN also the Deutz SN or would there be another one some where on the engine. Want to make sure I order the right parts if I get stuck doing the whole job. Found some Deutz parts website that seem fair on pricing. I was hoping to have parts line up the second I figure it out . And not have to pull parts for part numbers
Yes, there's a drain on the bottom of the tank. It should have the quick drain fitting. [QUOTE="bigrich954rr, post: 889123, member: I’m pretty sure this engine is a Deutz 1013. I have to volvo top plate engine model and SN is the SN also the Deutz SN or would there be another one some where on the engine. Want to make sure I order the right parts [/QUOTE] I don't know that you want to get parts from deutz. Volvo likes to **** on parts to make them theirs. Yes , it's a deutz engine. No , it doesn't necessarily use deutz parts. That's a call that you have to be comfortable with. Remember, an injector with an incorrect spray/ angle could just destroy a piston.
Well I finally got a hold of one service place and they say it doesn’t look like low rail pressure I sent them the same pics you guys have the same 5000 to 6000 psi would be kind of normal for idle. Do you does anyone know the specs what the PSI should be in relation to Rpm’s. I got someone probably driving out here tomorrow but two hours and 100 some miles is it gonna be one very expensive to just read the code if we don’t have parts
Should be, if I remember correctly, 8-9k at idle, 12-17 full throttle no load, and 17-20k at full load, full throttle
Fuel pressure specs figure I’d post them since I got them
So how did the visit from the repairman go?
The Mechanic just left. he’s thinking it’s the fuel rail with a ring or notch in the seat from wear or the fuel pressure relief. He bringing both parts on Monday to see and be sure. I’m trying to wait and have him come up when he has other work in the area to Split the drive time cost. but if you turn off auto idle and right after start up you turn the Throttle two clicks up it flows enough fuel not to set it into limp mode.
A failed injector will do that, a rail will not. If its bleeding enough fuel at idle, it's only gonna get worse with higher pressure. Did he separate the return flow to see who the offender was or is this a guess? Yes, safeties can etch the rail at the seat, but you had to have a significant off seat event to have that happen.
I wasn’t there when he worked on it I got there at the end. He Separated some of the components but said he was missing one of the fittings so he’s bringing that back to separate the rail and something else. And both parts. Monday I’m going to try and meet with him I used it for hour or two yesterday evening and as long as the rpm were two clicks up. It work fine . I ran it at middle rpms for another half hour too.
The mech says it’s the left high pressure fuel pump it’s bypassing a lot of fuel ( VOE20798675) Says the parts about 900 though him he recommends replacing both. but he said I saw you put a thumb on the excavator. It’s a easy job and mostly likely can find it for half. But if he wants next time his in the area he will install the pump if I want. so looking For two high pressure fuel pumps cheaper than that and going to install them myself but said any questions I can give him a call.
I could be wrong, I don't think so. The high pressure pumps either produce flow to the rail or they don't. There is no bypass. The pressure results from the rail being static. No fluid escaping. Maybe there is a new test I'm unaware of. I can't imagine how to measure bypass. I would question how he condemned the pump.
You can test each high pressure pump, but it takes a block off fitting to do it. And you will need tech tool. Also you shouldn't run it very long because it uses fuel to lubricate it. Also your engine is a deutz but I can't remember what model it is. You can purchase the pump through deutz if you know what model engine you have.
So, Paul, the way we tested the high pressure pumps was to cap off the rail entirely except for safety valve and pressure transducer. Run one pump into a bucket and the other deadhead into the rail. Unplug the FCV which would send full volume to the high pressure pumps. You would see 22-25k on the rail pressure sensor in just a few seconds. Whatever the safety valve unloads at, then about 18-20k. Then we'd wait a few minutes. and swap to the other pump and perform the test on the other. To my knowledge, there is no weep hole or bypass port on the pumps. If you have another method, would you share? I'm always down to learn another way to skin a cat. If I'm not mistaken, the pumps are the same from D6D/D7D through D7J. The FCVs are the same as well. The critical part is the injectors. IIRC
You would leave everything on the fuel system connected. There at the two high pressure pumps you have a y pipe connecting the two from the fcv. Where that pipe plumbs into the high pressure pump you will remove the banjo bolt and put the block off bolt and then run the engine. I check idle pressure and wide open pressure and then stop. That is all that you will need to run it with out fuel. Whichever one you are blocking off you are reading the pressure for the other. You can fabricate all of these fittings by buying extra banjo bolts. For the return line you can take the same banjo bolt and tac weld the holes to close them up. Polish the outside and drill out the inside. You can do the same for the high pressure pumps. You can also tap the banjo bolt for the high pressure pump with a standard 5/16 tap and thread in a bolt and cut off the head. These are actual special instructions from Volvo. You should see the service tip bulletin for this. Their welding looks like my kid attempting to weld. It's not the quality of work you would expect to see from Volvo.
I believe that is the engine family. I haven't worked on Volvo much in my 20 plus years so I am still learning what are the makes of their components. Unlike most manufacturers Volvo rebadges all of their components. Its like they have a facility dedicated for that purpose. Some components are easy to recognize and others not so much. I have noticed that on some things they will change it ever so slightly to make it their own. I work for the dealer so I mainly pimp Volvo parts, but there is that occasional customer that doesn't want to pay those prices. So I tell them what and where to buy them so that I can get the job sold.
Thank you I believe I found them at a place called diesel injection zone for about 320 apiece (New Genuine BOSCH Fuel High Pressure Pump 0 414 693 007 Top German Quality) We will see now we wait again which is ok the ground is to wet to work right now anyways. thank you guys for all the help
Nothing special to install them, but if you are having resistance and it is sitting up high. Just rotate the engine until you are on the back side of the cam lobe and it is a snap to install them.
Well I got the two pumps install wasn’t bad would have been easier if it wasn’t so hoT out. but it did not fix the Problem so kind of disappointed. Took pretty much half a day to pull them out and install them and paying for them sucked But at least it was cheaper then buying the Volvo high marked up one. The mechanics gonna be in the area Monday he’s going to swing by and check it out.
So how much does a set of injectors cost in comparison to what you've already invested? Asking for a friend
Did you change the rail pressure sensor and relief valve? If you have then its likely the injectors.
No not yet By any chance do you have part numbers for those things I’ll try to get them on order
I don't know the part numbers and my laptop took a crap today.
If I unplugged one injector at a time from the rail would and capped off the line . I know the engine would run rough but would that keep rail pressure up to see if one is bad ?
Yes, but... Typically if one injector is hurt, you will be replacing the remaining 5 over the next 3 months. This has been my experience over and over again. These new common rail fuel systems have ZERO tolerance for water. The filters are awfully efficient, but don't stop water. If one is hurt, odds are the others are right behind it. You gotta do what your budget permits. But troubleshooting the same problem every week gets old.
I’m just trying to to rule out out parts before I buy injectors
Well the mechanic came back put in a new pressure relief it did not solve the problem.he said it has to be the rail. He asked if I wanted him to put in the new rail and that fix the problem. Most expensive fuel pressure rail ever. I mostly work with gas engines and a fuel pressure rail would never cause this kind of problem so it kind of shocked me
So, just how proud of that rail are they?
To replace the rail I was told 1700-1800 but I needed it up and running. Plus I wanted to know what was the issue. So I choked it down and said do it
And how much are the injectors?
Please, remember this post in regards to your rail purchase
The rail fixed the issue i don’t understand how. I was Very skeptical so he I told him to leave the old rail. But it’s working with just the new fuel rail. I’m looking and pricing the injectors now. It I order and install myself I can do it But just can’t swing it right now. im open to places to buy the injectors from if anyone knows of a good deal to buy from. He showed me the green line which I believe with the rail pressure and it was jagged kind a like a heartbeat but very consistent. Then after the rail the green line on his computer was very consistent pretty much a straight line all the way across at idle
I'm glad for ya, sure don't understand how it can be all there is. Can't argue results.
I totally agree with you doesn’t make sense. I’m going to keep the rail pressure screen up while running to watch pressures for a while. I didn’t look at the injectors much but they looks easy to get to. .
Let's hope that you wouldn't have to. Glad to hear that you are back up and running.
Thank you guys very much. lucky I had some dozing work to get done while the Volvo was down but everything with in 50 yards is done and and it’s time to load dump trucks. Dozing passed 50 yards was painfully slow.
Well here a update the low rail pressure is on again this time just at low idle. So I’m guessing it’s injectors as everything else has been replace pretty much . Guess the rail had a small leak And the new one gave it a small boost in pressure just enough to keep the light off for little bit . I’m a little late updating it But figured Hope this thread helps some one else one day
Just changed all injectors at lowest idle 800 rpms I’m running 5800psi no stick inputs And I’m still popping a code 1000 rpms 6200 No code with a stick input press will just to 8k Mid rpms 9200 10k psi no stick inputs with input jumps to 12-14 max rpms fuel pressure no inputs 10200. With boom raising jumps to 16-17k. no fuel is leaking anywhere. after new injectors I think the fuel rate above the rail pressure number came down from 1.5 -1.7 to .5 g/h. I don’t know if the G/H mean anything Just something I noticed but I haven’t been paying a lot of attention to it
Second update just to mess with me now at lowest idle 800rpms rail pressure is 5800.9-5862.7 And it’s not popping a code. Just keeps on running with .3-.4 g/h well at least it doesn’t pop a code while using the auto idle while working and hoping it has enough psi and fuel to keep the Parts lubricated as I use it. I really like my Volvo’s and the Volvo trucks but this Might start to convert me to a caterpillar guy.
All common rail problems are a PITA to deal with. You can only gauge the low side pressure. For high side, you have to rely on the machines pressure transducer and measure return fuel against as known value. Too high a volume means you have a bleed or leak .That's where things get challenging. Splitting your return sources. On a volvo, it's tough with all those steel pipes. The fact that your GPH has dropped so dramatically 1.5 down to .5 means you've corrected one significant leak. Everything is calculated. It doesn't see return volume, only what's put in. If it sees the higher volume at idle, it thinks there's a leak. It can't differentiate between internal and external so for safety reasons, it gives 30 seconds of run time and shuts down. It doesn't want someone to get injected with a high pressure jet of fuel. I don't think any brand of HPCR injection is any better than anyone else's. They're all bastardized versions of bosch or nippondenso. You really can't jump brands and hope one will be better than the other. I will say the emissions game has gotten better with DEF injection. But at the core, the engines performance is what matters. What were we talking about I'm glad to hear you're up and running. Hope this whole mess is behind you, just remember the importance of clean fuel filters and draining moisture from the tank once a week until you know how long you can stretch it out.
What is your pressure under full load? Arm in over relief and bucket curl over relief . Just to clarify each joystick pulling a function over relief. At full throttle and at idle?
Bucket curl at idle 13ish 14 but engine would of stalled out if I kept going max rpms 12800k at full curl. stick idle 9800 max 12500 boom 9500-9800 max12500 all thoughts are slowly Increasing input in the stick at relief holding it for about a second or two for the sensor to even out
In Rabbit moving forward at max travel rail pressure was 14 to 16K couldn’t really stay on it to let it full level out. cause I was worried about looking at Screen and then hitting stuff. The Service tech was a nice guy but I don’t know if he didn’t feel like doing all the work to check pressures and flow the first three times. But after they called me to settle the bill and with the help and knowledge of this site they finally sent him back out to give him one last chance even though I told the service writer it didn’t really matter I already have the injectors. And I don’t want to pay for another trip cause I’ve already replaced every part which I could have done with out calling you guys. He narrowed it down to one or two leaking injectors and which ones they were. Which is what I told them the first time to do. With your guys is help. He explained how he found out what was leaking the first few times it made Sense but when I looked at the engine I didn’t see paint Scratched off any of the fuel fittings or flare lines. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Waiting to get a call from them and see what they try to charge me after all this. Wishing I listened to you guys and just did all the work myself then I could’ve donated a few thousands of dollars To this site instead of most likely paying the dealership.
Don't look at it like that. These fuel systems have the potential to be very dangerous. Knowing what you know now, you're better prepared for the future. That fuel system isn't going anywhere for quite a while. Those troubleshooting steps will be applicable across the board from Cat, Cummins to Deere etc.
I knew a little about the high pressure fuel systems but didn’t think the injectors could be returning fuel that’s a first for me. also didn’t know it would take a few restarts/ little run time to stop the code from popping up. I changed the one bad one marked it then restarted it to see if it fixed it . Then changed the rest restarted it again both times had the code then after a while it completely went away after and lucky stayed away. thank you for all your help