Hello, New to the heavy equipment world and really need some advice. I have read all the old post but some date back to 2010 and most are before transmission-hydraulic fluid is $150+ for 5 gallons!!!!! I have a new to me Case 480E LL. I just got done rebuilding all cylinders and replacing every single line. Do I really need to drive 2hr to my Case dealer and spend $156 per bucket for Hy-Tran? Or can I use Traveler Premium for $65 from down the street? I have a split hydraulic, Transmission so lots of options to run cheap stuff in hydraulic system and good stuff in Power Shuttle, though then that complicates things with two products. So do I really need to spend $450 on Hy-Tran or can I spend $195 on Traveler premium from Tractor supply? This machine will get very little use just around my house but don't want to screwed up all my hard work rebuilding it with the wrong oi. Rotella is also an option but nearly $130, and Mobile Delvac at $70. Appreciate any advice. -Shawn
They are both engine oils though, correct.? You were talking about transmission/hydraulic systems before. Confusion reigns........... Good quality oil & filters are the best insurance policy you could ever buy for a machine. I would suggest never to buy anything containing any of the words universal, tractor, or farm - either in the name of the product or of the store that is selling it. My 2c, YMMV.
My apologizes, I was not very clear on that. Just talking oil for the hydraulic/transmission. Engine oil I can handle. Was think Rotella HD Tractor fluid and Mobile Delvac Tractor fluid might be cheaper options then Hy-Trans but better quality then the Traveler stuff. So with your suggestion that would be the Hy-Trans only. Thanks for the option and advice
I’m not a Case expert. I would defer to someone else’s knowledge on what would be the preferred oil for your transmission. Based on what you mentioned above both the Shell & Mobil options would still appear to be on the table.
If I took a poll right now from all the very experienced wrenches, that frequent this site, concerning all the newbies that come on here asking how to be cheap with a machine they just spent tens of thousands of dollars for, I can pretty well guarantee that nearly all if not all of us would be getting a bit tired of hearing those kinds of questions. You are basically just asking for someone to confirm your conjecture that any of your listed oils will be fine so you have validated yourself in choosing the cheapest. Basically, if you can't afford the oil, why do you have the machine?
John, Can you or your very experienced friends show any prof the cheaper oils do not work? Thats what I was looking for, I was looking for someone with experience and knowledge to say the Power Shuttle will work just fine or it wont work fine with say the Traveler Premium oil. Keyboard warriors are a dime a dozen, true hands on prof is what we are missing. I can't find a single post saying the $60 oils caused problems. All I can find are post like you saying "you cant afford it".
I think what John is trying to convey here is, it’s up to you to determine price vs value in the conversation of fluids for your machine. Cheap oil could very well work for you, I’m sure you could find a study or personal opinion to confirm this. If you want oil that defiantly will work with no questions, put the hy-Tran in. If you are willing to take a chance on oil that will probably work for what you’re doing, buy the cheaper oil. You can always look up the ISO specs on both oils you are looking at and compare. There are many variables on whether cheaper universal oils will work or not. We have always had good luck with countrymark Co-op branded oil, just have to decide whether it’s worth the risk for your operation.
There's always wal mart
Thanks! I appreciate the advice. There is lots of re-branded "magic in a bottle" with a colt like following and was just wondering if Hy-Tran was just that or is it really a different product. Outside of Rotella and Mobile, Case and the cheap Traveler stuff is coming from a big refinery, so is the Hy-Tran really that much different and better? I have googled this for way to long and find plenty of guys saying the Traveler stuff works just fine and they run it, Then you find the guys with a Hy-Tran tattoo on there arm! What I cant find is anyone saying they personally had a cheaper fluid cause a problem. Honestly I want to run the Hy-Tran but I want a scientific reason to do so not just because that's what the cool kids do. Its a $7,000 tractor does it really need and deserve $450 of hydraulic oil?
You it Mr, gotta weigh cost vs value.
Hy-tran is considerably different than your standard hydraulic oil. It is hygroscopic, has a slightly different viscosity and has a very robust additive package. I have a case 480E backhoe and only run either IH Hy-tran or Case TCH fluid in the shuttle shift, even though it is a 3hr round trip to get it. The hydraulic reservoir gets any decent name brand tractor hydraulic fluid.
Isn't it like one bucket in the reverser? then you can run what ever hydraulic oil you want, within reason, it doesn't need to be a transmission/hydraulic oil. The shuttle/reverser DOES need to be a trans/hyd oil, and preferably hytran. If the oil in it looks good, change the filter and put the old stuff back in, better a good old oil than a yellow bucket of sludge.
In the trans. I'd at least use an oil that meets Hy-Tran specs. The hyd's aren't as critical.
I should have said the hydraulic oil. Change the reverser with the best oil you can find, hytrans is easy if that's best. You're never going to change all the hydraulic oil anyway, 1/2 or less if you drain and refill, so if it has water dry it out, change the filter, and put it back in rather than drain it and use a $20 yellow bucket.
OP, Sometimes you have to look deeper than the spec sheet. The spec sheet lies. I may be another keyboard warrior, but I dabble in the lube biz. For example Traveler is blended by Warren Industries. Warren has a history of litigation for false claims that their products meet “spec”. Including very recent shenanigans concerning tractor oil. Look it up. Many industry folks wonder how they stay in business. Since clown world began with global additive shortages, force majeure, blah blah, I’ve witnessed other funny business with off-spec product. The quarantine storage is overflowing. I would stick to the majors in 2023 and pay the premium, but your mileage may vary.
Continuing on from my learned friend's post above (and IMO you would be well advised to heed his opinion) here's another story regarding oil, this time an engine oil. I am not going to name the manufacturer at this point because I can't yet prove to my satisfaction that the product is not legit, but get this........... 1. In the data sheet was the following statement - "[the oil] is designed to exceed the newest API and OEM service categories". Note carefully it didn't say "meets or exceeds", only "designed to exceed". The datasheet for a comparable oil from Mobil clearly stated - "Accordingly, this oil meets or exceeds the requirements of API CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, & CH-4 service categories, as well as key original equipment manufacturer (OEM) requirements." It then went on to list a load of OEM Specs that the oil met. 2. Further down the datasheet it lists "Typical Properties" with the caveat "The typical properties listed reflect the general characeteristics of the product, and are not manufacturing specifications. If they are not manufacturing specifications why bother.? Draw your own conclusions from that....... 3. In the Typical Properties table for the no-name oil every specified value listed (apart from one) fails to include the relevant ASTM Standard to which that parameter should be tested. Compare that to the Mobil datasheet for which I include an image below. One is clear and unequivocal, the other one isn't worth the paper it's written on IMHO, because if the manufacturer was ever challenged they could simply point to their "general characteristics" caveat (see above) and deny anything & everything. Reading and interpreting lubricant manufacturers' data sheets is something akin to an art form.
In my mind you can do what ever you want to with you equipment but; If you hire me to repair or rebuild something on it, if you want to use some fluid that I am not comfortable with you will have to supply it and I will not warranty my work. And yes I have seen failures from wrong fluids.
https://buysinopec.com/ Type in Hydraulic oil in the search box, if you can't find an HY-TRAN equivalent oil for far less than Deere is going to charge you....delivered to your door, I'll be shocked. Disclaimer: I've no affiliation with this company I just by oil from them, they list several locations around the country, you may have one near you. If it turns out not to be so, you're not out nothing, it's cheap to look.
I agree with Nige, it would take a petroleum scientist to cipher out the differences in a Spec Chart....but us surfs can get a reasonable assumption as to the quality of products if we look hard enough.
Or a tribologist. Most distributors have one on the payroll you can talk with.
That's probably true...I wonder you you could get an unbiased opinion though? I don't find many dealers of anything that don't try to make their product 1#
Maybe, but their autism and place on the spectrum naturally prevents them from lying and becoming good marketers. They are just happy to have someone to talk with about oil specifics. It’s a lonely job.
I'll share what little experience I have with Travelers vs JD Hygard - the Case/IH Hytran equivalent. When buying an older track loader, all the trans and hydraulic fluids were changed with Travelers 13 years ago. It only has 500 hours on the oil, but it works and it's still running. The brakes chatter fiercely. I can't stand it and it's not good on the brake shoes. But we don't use it much anymore. When I do change it, I plan to put Hytran in the transmission. Bought a JD 310 and the brakes chattered on it. I changed out all the fluids and put Hygard in the trans and the rear end. It has wet brakes in the rear and the chatter went away. I put a mix of travelers and Hygard in the Hydrauilcs. I've changed so many hoses and cylinder seals on it now, that I've about replaced all the fluid with straight 10W-30 motor oil in the hydraulics now. I will always run Hygard in the trans and rear for the anti-chatter additive in the premium fluids. So yes, the cheaper oils will work, but like everyone said you get what you pay for.
Good real- world analysis. Thanks for sharing that.
Friend mentioned he runs 10-30w with Case additive. I have an old 580SE and have started needing to change cylinder seals. Is this a bad fluid or ??
That would be hard to say and harder to prove. If seal failure is do to dieseling then the argument could be cavitation in pump from fluid.
Tough call, it could be that it's just old...seals don't last for ever. The only way to be sure it wasn't the oil type is to know that it always had the recommended oil in it, anything short of that fact is pure speculation.
While everybody is arguing with me, I remember Hy-Tran as an International Harvester product from the late 1960s. One doesn't hear a lot about an oil that works well, you hear about an oil that failed. There was an excellent article in Red Power Magazine a few years back, I wish I had saved it. It was written by an engineer who understood the formula. The additives are numerous & well chosen. I have Case & Dresser heavy machines & International Harvester farm tractors. I use Hy-Tran I buy from my Case dealer in all. I do use the basic stuff in the dump truck & wood splitter.
Welcome to HEF, Manland ! We need more details about your friend's 10W-30 oil. Is it a hydraulic oil or am engine oil ? Some brands of T/L/B's do allow engine oil in the hydraulic system. Definitely NO engine oil in a Case SE hydraulic system.
I use Shell Rotella T4 or T5 for all my engines. Hygard or Hytran in axles/transmissions/shuttles/etc. and a decent (not the cheapest) universal tractor fluid for the machines with a separate hydraulic system. I don't play in the dirt for a living and many of my machines are older. If I were to have a transmission fail or something else really big, I would have to consider if it was worth repairing on some of my machines. Buying the correct oil for the critical systems gives me piece of mind and it's not always in the back of mind. Hytran and Hygard look, feel, and smell very different than farm store oils. Enough so that I believe there is a difference.
My Case 580K brakes sounded liike grinding gears when I first got it. Someone said wet brakes need an additive in Hy-tran. When I bought the first 580K, the manual called for Case TCH (transmission clutch hydraulic) fluid. At the time that's what my Case dealer offered for the purpose. More recently they have specified Hy-Tran instead.
While I'll not bash any product marketed for a purpose as believe you get what you pay for, (most times) I will relay what I've physically seen with the "Traveler's" branded oil from TSC in my own tractor. My HD-11 series B tractor was operated with the "Traveler's" branded "Universal" transmission oil for many years without problems. The prior owner used it citing cost and a slight leak in the speed control valve. At conclusion of the prior owner's project, the tractor was put up in a storage building and remained dormant in excess of 15 years. The following is wordy in length but I want to put you there: I made purchase of the tractor last year. With fresh batteries, along with topping of fluids and general checkover, it started right up running well. After allowing a good warm up, it was moved several hundred feet to a new staging area without problems proving all functions along the way. Nothing irregular was noted in operation. A month or so later I was going to start the tractor and upon checking the fluids noticed nothing on the transmission dipstick. Knowing the fluid that had been ran in the transmission and having a unopened 2.5 gallon jug of the same, this was installed but the sump was still low. I drove to TSC and purchased another five gallon pail of the same product and it took all of this pail to indicate on the stick, but was still low? Looking under the tractor I could see an oil slick which had soaked into the driveway so knew there was a leak. The tractor was started easily and if the engine RPM was elevated even slightly, it would spew transmission oil out of the engine starter mounting area. This is a power shift tractor and uses a torque converter with a wet housing. Transmission oil in the converter housing is normal and it uses a venturi pump to purge this oil and return it to transmission sump when the engine is running. The problem I've explained up to this point is something was siphoning the transmission oil into the torque converter housing when the engine was not running, and draining the transmission. What i discovered after removing the floor pans and looking things over is an anti siphon valve is incorporated into this oil circuit. It is actually calibrated at .75"wc which is enough to seal any siphon effect for the elevation, but any pump suction readily allows flow through it. This valve was not sealing and the torque converter housing level was siphoning the transmission oil till this housing was overfull, then dumping it on the ground. Instead of a small amount of oil being retained in the torque converter housing, there as about two and a half gallons. When the engine was started, the spinning torque converter, and reduction geartrain was expelling the oil from the starter mounting area for about three minutes till the venturi pump evacuated the housing. Once this scenario was ascertained, and the torque converter housing emptied, transmission oil level with the engine running was much closer to where indications are normal. Now with all that said, I disassembled the anti siphon valve and sure enough it was the culprit. I cleaned it in solvent and upon reinstallation, it works as it should with the siphoning effect being past tense. Running the tractor around on our property the transmission engagement, disengagement, and up, and down shifting are improving from my initial operation. I never thought there were any problems but there is a definite difference in the way the tractor operates with usage from my acquisition. My findings are that the additive package used in this oil breaks down or becomes "sticky" with age, or dormancy. The adhesive sludge buildup in that anti siphon valve, and the lack of immediate power shift clutch pack disengagement is proof to me of this. As the tractor is operated this factor is reduced so I believe the oil additives are reblended into the parent by pumping action, heating, or a combination of the two. I'm not vehemently opposed to this oil but it's not one I'll go out of the way to purchase. Typically I use either Chevron, or Mobil products but have a good friend that is the local distributor so cost is favorable.
1693TA ; Did I read this correctly that the oil was in excess of 15 years old ? I wonder what the chances are that the Traveler's brand oil is the made with the same formula now as it was over 15 years ago.
Yes. The tractor had not been out of the storage building since the summer of 2007. The 2.5gl jug of oil I dumped in was at least that old as original owner purchased if for topping off due to the aforementioned leak. All oil was purchased at TSC store in Peoria, and now relocated to E. Peoria. I took the empty container with me to purchase the same, or like oil from the same vendor and all appears the same. Can't answer to composition and certainly cannot ask anyone there as they are not experts in any fashion. The tractor is distant from me now but my son is going to check on it this weekend to ensure the siphoning effect has been put to rest.
Little update: The torque converter protection valve serves the anti siphon function of the transmission when the engine is not running. It was this valve that was sludged up and sticking in the open position. It is represented by #16 on the diagram and I've annotated with a red arrow. The valve block is mounted atop the transmission housing: #4 shown in the diagram is the venturi pump which purges the torque converter housing when the engine is running and returning the oil to sump. This is shown with the yellow circle. The green circle on the diagram shows the sump where the oil is being siphoned from. As can be seen just above the red arrow the line listed as torque converter pressure feeds directly into the torque converter, (#20) which is an open design into the housing. Without valve #16 closing, and the physical location of the torque converter lower than transmission sump pickup tube, the siphon effect takes place with the engine shut down. Hopefully with me disassembling the valve and cleaning things up the problem is rectified. The oils and filters will be changed shortly but until the machine is proven I don't want to go too far. The part shown as #8 on the diagram is the speed control valve that is seeping oil. Parts breakdown shows it to be a very simple affair but no kit is readily available. Looks to be common lip seals and sheet gasket material in a sandwich configuration. I'll address this once the siphon effect scenario is proven closed.
Any oil 15 years old may have done the same thing. If there was even a little of the original oil or at some time in the past a different brand of oil (or leak stop additive like Lucas) been added maybe the different additives weren't fully compatible or separated causing the sludge and stickiness. I've tried Lucas stop leak and it's quite thick and very sticky. I think it's hard to say for sure the brand of oil was the culprit.
As do I. Too many variables and unknowns to make any judgement call. Tractor was last serviced by dealership in October 2006. Prior owner is not mechanically inclined at all and hired everything done by dealership that sold tractor new. Really no other knowledge than that but it is a good running and operating machine.
In the parts breakdown manual for the machine that section of the valve is named the torque converter charging pressure valve and is shim adjustable. I removed the fasteners, gaskets, and end caps and found the spring actuated spool frozen, (stuck) in what I assume is the open position. A good ole horsehair bristle parts washer brush and mineral spirits to the bore and scrubdown of the spool and spring removed the sludge component and the valve now floats in the bore as it should, (seemingly). This is a breakdown from the parts manual and center valve section is the valve in question: If the problem persists, I'll pull the valve body from the top of the transmission and disassemble it complete, then clean it up with the hot tank back at my shop. Everything as far as soft parts are easily made with a gasket cutter. With exception of this siphoning of the transmission oil, I've not really noticed anything other than general needs of an older machine needing attention. The u/c is in very good condition having about 450hrs on new pins, bushings, and sprocket segments since replaced many years ago. As a final note all pressures indicated on quadrant gauges indicate normal and are well in the green area of the gauges at both high, and low engine rpm. This is both cold, and after warm up. I'm talking both transmission hydraulic pressure, and transmission lubricating pressure shown as #'s 15, and 16 here from the machine parts manual:
I don't have much scientific input, but the whole "It all comes from the same refineries" deal doesn't work. Oil is oil, but its the additives that you are buying. I have a John Deere 450G. With generic "universal tractor" fluid in the transmission it didn't shift right, steer right and the pressures weren't right. No issues with Hy-gard. You could probably put whatever you wanted in the hydraulic side, and it probably wouldn't make any difference in performance, (Who knows long term though) but the tranny is picky.
I am in agreeance with you on this. I spoke with my oils vendor today and he is going to package a 16 gallon barrel of oil he recommends they private brand, but is a Chevron product. Also an additive to serve as a cleaning and stabilization agent. The books call out a 14 gallon system capacity so I'll have a little left over for the known seepage leak till it's addressed later this spring. Thanks,
Problem seems to be rectified with cleaning the valve bore and spool. My son is down there for the long weekend getaway and he started the tractor, allowed it to warm, and varied the engine rpm's without any oil expulsion. Checking the reservoir and it is still full.
This is the oil I will be running but I'll need to change the order tomorrow, or Tuesday for additional quantity. The transmission capacity is 14 gallons, but the steering clutch(s) and reduction gear compartment require 17 gallons and use separate sumps. I cannot locate or remember the additive to cleanse the old oil film, but will post it when known. I'm told to keep an eye on pressures and change the filters after 100 hours citing this additive and it's contaminate removal/cleansing possibilities. https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us/home/products/delo-torqforce.html Son asked if he could remove the "diaper" I fixtured up under the tractor before I left. This consists of a waterproof tarp, bungee straps, and a transmission drain funnel discharging into a bucket under the tractor. It kinda hangs under there nicely from the tracks and any leakage would drain down and into the bucket. I'm told there are some drip spots, but nothing running profusely as before. I know he's wanting to run it around the yard too..... From the conversation I take it will be alright to back the tractor over an 8 mil plastic lined plywood box with 2" sides serving as a drip pan.
This problem appears to be rectified. No further leaks, drips, nor errors related to this scenario.
Picked up seven pails of the Chevron transmission fluid and five gallon pail of Shaffer's "Varniclean". Going to run the cleaner in the oil for several hours, then drain and refill with the new oil as per directions. I'm told this is a very good product but no direct experience myself. Here is the cleaner if it will attach. Kind of expensive but should be a benefit regardless.
The Seafoam hyd. additive is also supposed to clean varnish and deposits from valves and other components.
Thanks. I had heard of the Seafoam product as the local NAPA store has it on the shelf in quart, and gallon bottles. The Schaeffer's product is more of a problem repair, or aggressive material so elected to go that way. The Seaform is a product you leave in the system where this is not. The fluids in the tractor are too old to be left in place and I want to run this through just prior to drain and refill.
Interested in hearing how the Shaffer product works
I put some of the Seafoam in my dump truck to clean things up a bit because the hoist was intermittent. I figured it wouldn't hurt anything but the issue turned out to be electrical. I ran wires directly from the battery with an inline fuse to a toggle switch in the cab. Much easier than trying to sort out all the electronics due it being a former plow truck. Works everytime now.
I used to work on the local community's trucks and they can be a nightmare. Especially the cobbled wiring and corrosion. Don't do that any longer as the most recent administrations finally pushed and was approved to hire an "in house" maintenance mechanic.
I will keep you updated once this product is installed. I won't be around the tractor for probably another few weeks to a month but it will be run at the 10% concentration level for at least 48 hours as per directions. However I need to talk with Schaeffer's directly as the directions on this product state to only run it about 48 hours and I was told 100 hours by the vendor so going to look for clarification. Again, I'm told to watch the hydraulic pressures and temperatures as this stuff will supposedly remove anything that shouldn't be there for capture in the filters.
Schaeffer has good tech support and has never steered us wrong. Fortunately our rep is one of their best and goes the extra mile to make sure he gives us correct info. There's a reason the lab said 48 hours when they drafted the product instructions.
It's always good when a supplier is there to help you and has knowledgeable people that know the product. What really sucks is when you need some product knowledge and there is only 1 person who knows anything about it but is impossible to get ahold of. Have run into this on numerous occasions.
This is the other product we looked at and Caterpillar uses it in some of their manufacturing machines prior to oil changes. I won't have the time available to let the Chevron product run up to seven days, (tractor is 183 miles distant) so elected for the shorter duration Schaeffer's offers. Both products probably do the same thing with both mentioning to keep watch on the filters for plugging so must be aggressive at cleaning the system. https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us/home/products/chevron-vartech-industrial-system-cleaner.html
Spent a bit of time face to face with the Schaeffer's rep yesterday as he was in town at the oil supplier. He tells me the "Varniclean" product has a constituent product in it's makeup that will "wick" water up from a system and hold it in suspension for a spell. This "suspension" is the main reasoning behind draining the fluids while it is still warm and freshly shut down. He tells me that it is a good product to use in any machine that has possibility of condensation and accumulating water which is a direct cause of sludge formation. Varnish is mostly caused from hydraulic, and engine oil detergents and stabilizers falling, or cooking out from being in a system far too long. Heating, cooling, and time in use are the main culprits this product works well to remove the byproducts of. I didn't feel like sunshine was being blown up my azz or anything of the like as the product has already been purchased. I rather had the feeling the gent was interested in my problem being addressed and rectified. We talked about wet clutches, brakes, along with steering clutches and valving to control everything. He says I've purchased the right product to address this but would rather I'd purchased their transmission oil instead of the Chevron which is admittedly a good product also. What I liked about this gent is actual experience with how the product is to be used as he comes from a construction background maintaining equipment. More as I know it.
I've been following this thread along...I looked at your Schaeffer's product discription, My only question is this, and I assume it was answered when you talk to the rep..... VarniClean® can be used to clean the following systems of existing varnish and sludge: • Turbine applications • Paper Machine systems • Quench baths VarniClean® will provide the following benefits: • Removes varnish buildup and sludge • Significantly reduces equipment downtime when compared to manual cleaning • Cleans equipment while operating • Helps eliminate valve sticking due to the presence of varnish • Helps reduce filter changes due to the presence of varnish • Compatible with petroleum based lubricants and common seal materials • Helps reduce health and safety concerns that may be present when using solvent based cleaners • Increased productivity due to shortened cycling times It clearly mentions it can be used in Turbine application, Paper machine systems and Quench baths. But nothing else. What can you tell me about that? Thanks.
I don't have a good answer to your question as I really didn't ask about any other uses for the product than my application. Sorry. I hit on the cleaning action of the oil and parts in the transmission, steering clutches, and wet band brakes which use the same oil, but separate sumps.
Good sales people or reps. will usually tell you if you're using a good product even if it is another brand. Sometimes they will tell you a product is better than what they offer and other times when they've had customers who've had problems using a particular product or brand. It's refreshing to find sales reps who aren't anti everything that they don't sell and don't bash their competitors at every chance. I've ran into some sales people that I don't think really know the products they're selling so instead just go on and on about how bad competing products are. Sadly there are few sales reps. that can tell you the advantages of their products without bashing competing products. Even fewer that would ever mention a good feature of a competing product.
You are correct Dave and this guy fit that mold well. He had no problem that I was going to use the Chevron oil rather than the Schaeffer's product. Went as far to say it was a good oil for the application too. What I liked about him was he had direct experience with construction equipment repair and maintenance and wasn't preaching from a lesson plan; and knew the Shaeffer's product(s) well having personal experience with them before becoming a route sales rep for the company.
A salesman knows he has it made when he can finally fake sincerity. Monsters are not the scary looking things with horns, fangs and scales. They are the normal looking people working to take advantage of others for their own benefit. I've heard lots of warm fuzzies over my career. I've never had a problem with varnish in a hydraulic system unless someone poured something in that chemically changes the composition of the oil. Water in hydraulic oil causes rust and that is what causes problems in hydraulic systems. I certainly hope the product you put in your system works out and look forward to hearing how it benefits you. I won't hold my breath while waiting for the good news.
It doesn't sound like the guy from Schaeffer's was faking it. Just one of a rare breed that tries to give their customers good information. Some good sales people will even recommend a competitors product if it's better for a specific supplication than what they offer. Customers appreciate it a lot better than the idiots that only know how to bash their competitors. Probably a good reason why Shaefers has such a good reputation for quality products. A lot of people swore by Slick 50 but there were some that questioned their claims and said Teflon particles could be bad in oil. I'm not sure if there was a lawsuit but Slick 50(Petrolon) did come out and admit they made false and untested claims of what their products did.
What started this ordeal was the long term storage of the tractor. The torque converter charge pressure regulator is a sliding spool controlled by springs, and shims. When the engine is not spinning the transmission charge pump, this spool should be closed by spring pressure as the valve assembly also acts as an anti siphon valve for the transmission oil. The same charge pump also charges the torque converter via the pressure regulator. What was happening is the torque converter pressure regulator valve was not closing with engine shutdown allowing the lower positioned torque converter charge port to fill the torque converter housing full until it overflowed onto the ground until an equal oil level in the transmission with the torque converter charge port was attained which stopped the siphon action. Upon engine start, the spinning torque converter was ejecting the surplus out out of the starter nose area before the venturi pump could scavenge the accumulated oil in the torque converter housing. Once this venturi pump had evacuated the housing there was no more oil spew, but the transmission oil was four gallons low from the ordeal. I removed the seat, seat support bracket and rear floorboard and had to dig out over four inches of dirt to even see the valve body which is a three section valve. The center section was cleaned extensively, and the rear cover, (spring side) was removed. The spool was found to be frozen in it's bore. I used a hardwood dowel and "tapped" the spool which promptly broke free and slid in it's bore to the closed position. I was able to pull the spool with a slight "drag" bind at a definitive position in the bore close to where the spool was frozen in place. I then removed the spool, and cleaned everything up, (bore, spool, springs, shims) with fresh mineral spirits and the spool then slid in the bore effortlessly. After placing the springs and shims back as originally removed, cutting a new rear gasket, and buttoning it all back up, the problem no longer exists of the transmission being drained. The other problem I think, (it may be in my head only) is that the right steering clutch was slow to reengage after a turn. Sort of like it was slipping as had a bit of a delay as opposed to the left steering clutch upon reengagement. Both clutches disengage with virtually the same amount of pull on the steering clutch release handles. The steering clutches are hydraulic release and spring apply. With the transmission in gear, and both steering clutch handles pulled back in the release position, with the blade raised, if the engine is accelerated, the tractor will pull away indicating a dragging clutch. A low engine rpm and the tractor won't move at all. A slight application of either brake will immediately stop the tractor from moving as will dropping the engine rpm. This may be perfectly normal operation as has been mentioned a possibility, but the oil is at least 10/06 in age and probably older than that. It has been a Tractor Supply "universal" tractor fluid used. I've heard good and bad to this oil and am neutral myself. The transmission upshifts, and downshifts smartly. Also drops into, and out of gear seemingly immediately when commanded. I think a good service is all that is needed but I'm not wanting to drag this out so electing to use a cleaner or additive to accelerate the process from a known and trusted vendor. I'm comfortable but again I want to expedite the process and this product seems to offer the solution I'm looking for without a lot of "bluster", or upheaval. I don't think it's a "snake oil" solution at all. Thanks,
Double post.
Thanks, maybe someone else here has more to add to the list, I just find it odd that they list those three specific applications and nothing else, I'll be interested in hearing what you have to report on it's use, Thanks again for your response.
One other thing, it will be hard to know if what your filter catch as a result of the treatment without first at least removing and inspecting the filters in the machine now, or better yet replace them with new filters ( if you haven't already ) before you run the treatment cycle..Just a thought. If you wonder why I care it's because I have four pieces of construction equipment with the newest one being a 1994, and the oldest one being a 1968 all of which could probably benefit from some kind of internal cleaning.
I have barrels which contained clean lacquer thinner and could probably reclaim the fluids fairly easily using my pneumatic pump on the rolling drain pan. That may not be a bad idea actually as I see nothing written down about strainer cleaning in the past service routines. It would be nice to have an established baseline to work from too. I could remove the oil, store it in barrels, clean the strainers, then reinstall the oil through a micron filter bank I have as it goes back into the machine prior to the cleaning treatment. I'll put some thought to this scenario.
My farmer friend keeps odd hours, as do I. He is third in line for the honor of cheapest man alive. He called one night; his 1948 International Farmall Cub had a bad gear. He replaced the gear, now he wondered how to filter the bits of metal out of the oil before putting it back in. He also has the first Farmall M sold in town, a 1939 model year. I have a 1940, my son has a 1941. Seth called him once to ask about his choice of modern available gear lubricants. Roger answered: "Gee I've never put gear oil in the M."
My father was an aircraft mechanic in WWII & Korea. He talked of tanker loads of drained oil sent back to be refined, used again.
I have no intention of setting up a fractionation tower to cleanse used oil myself. I have a little reclaimer bank I built consisting of a 100mesh screen filter outputting into a 10 micron filter outputting to either a 2.5, or 4.0 micron spin on filter element. The 100 mesh, (~40 micron) is rather coarse but will disallow any "chunks" to pass through and is cleanable. The 10micron is actually a water separator filter and works very well in this purpose along with filtering oil. The 2.5micron filter is very fine filtration and the oil after passing through this is rather clean of impurities and can be reutilized for limited purpose. I feed this apparatus with a .5gpm pump which is electric powered and discharges into a clean barrel. I think it would work well as a flush/cleaner with the "Varniclean" product rather than use new oil as the flush.