The subject has been hashed over for years. Hydraulic cylinder rods are an item that takes a beating on a backhoe. A number of them in my history have needed replacement. I have a big lathe, but haven't attempted to make one. My latest is a stabilizer cylinder. Seth & I set out to repack one that was leaking, when it was difficult to dismantle, I checked with a straight edge, sure enough, it was slightly bent. I wasn't able to straighten it with a 20 ton press. Case no longer offers the part, only a whole cylinder, at a price I don't like. Found a rod on Amazon, of all places, ordered it. I don't know if it'll arrive, or disappointment awaits. I'm toying with making one I anticipate welding the pin end on is straightforward. I presume they aren't welded all the way to center, but I'm not sure. The female thread is my greatest concern. It's described as 1" extra fine thread. Whether my limited lathe skills are equal to the challenge, I don't know. Has anybody here ever done it?
It is done all the time at hydraulic shops. Threading would the worst part I think. Some are welded right, but a lot have a couple passes on and call it good until it breaks. We break one of those every now and then.
Like blocker said done all the time in hydraulic shops If you choose to try it yourself 1"-20 UNEF taps are quite available and would be much easier than single pointing the internal thread I haven't threaded one myself but have welded many eyes on have to take the chrome back a ways champher the end of the rod for penetration and use good welding practices Just an example https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenfield...1f0a005:g:e6sAAOSwZrZcUyKa&LH_ItemCondition=4 No I have never seen one that was welded all the way to center and a stabilizer cyl isn't subject to shock loads and should be quite easy to make strong enough
Aren't cylinder rods Chrome plated ?
Yes? you can order hardened chromed rod in all the standard diameters, just cut the threads etc. on the end and weld the eye to the other end.
Bigger press.? 20 tons seems awful small for a solid rod, even a relatively small-diameter one. 50 or 100 tons would be more man for the job. Is there no machine shop in your area with one in that size range.?
I'm not aware of a machine shop for hundreds of miles. Eastern VT was, for 100 years the machine tool capitol of the US. Best I can say ALL have closed, lots of vacant industrial buildings. A few small shops in, or grown from someone's basement, but even the quill from a large drill press, I had to send out of state to get repaired. That shop has now closed. The one machinist I knew there has taken a very few machines & moved to a small space. Hydraulics shops are few, and their backlog of work is enormous! I've talked to a few, best answer looks like a month out. I did some searching, found the part on Amazon. The Amazon vendor is the same I tried repeatedly Friday to reach. I ended up ordering from Amazon. No telling if they actually have it to sell.
Isn't TomV up somewhere (relatively) near you..? He's in CT. Maybe he might have the capacity to do it for you. HeavyEquipmentForums
CT is a couple states away. To you, imagine Spain! But I'm not above an adventure! How might I contact him? Thank you! Bill
Looks like he's on here all the time, shoot him a PM.
Threading on a lathe is not that difficult. The key component is if you have a threading dial on your lathe and access to a Machinery Handbook. It will give you all the information that you need for major and minor diameter.
http://www.scotindustries.com/ I frequently pass their warehouse on I-5 in Washington. I see they have locations closer to you. Maybe if your Amazon purchase doesn’t work. Not sure if they have minimums, etc. I had a hydraulic shop turned and threaded a barrel for me and I rewelded the end with boss on it. They sold me an aluminum blank and I turned a new piston and seal shop fixed me up with those parts. My rod didn’t get bent but the barrel Got dinged and put a flat on the piston.
Thanks everybody. My last was a blade angle cylinder on a Dresser dozer. The track shoes were 2" wider than stock, had rubbed the barrel of the cylinder when I bought it, but damage was cosmetic. I hadn't owned it long when a C arm pin came out of the underbelly. This allowed the whole blade assembly to move sideways. After waiting several weeks for a local hydraulic shop to repair, he said he simply doesn't have time. A huge carbonate slurry plant was filling 4 days a week, and pressuring him to go to six. Several other shops were several weeks out also. Extensive searching finally located a new old stock cylinder in California. $2400. Take it or leave it. It arrived defective. With machining I could have made it work, but I felt at that price, it should be right. I asked for a break on the price, they wouldn't budge. They had two more identical in defect to the first. Months into it I built a stiff arm to take its place, and used the dozer without angling the blade. Eventually I found the correct barrel at around $400. Numerous times I've been at the mercy of hydraulic shops who prioritize their biggest customers. Not complaining, that is the nature of the business. It occurs to me I have most of what I need to fabricate. Maybe I should try my hand at it.
Get some like sized pieces to practice on first.... words of wisdom from someone who didn't practice the first time
I remember your dozer cylinder. You still have the old cylinder around? There’s your scrap to play with. Perfect “shelter in place” activity!
Thanks Ronsii & Labparamour. For me, sheltering in place isn't working out all that well. I got customers wanting me to get work done while there aren't people in the way. Others, THE SHOW MUST GO ON!!!! I get calls, people "on hold", had projects in mind for a while, "Lets get it done now." We, (Seth & I) were "exposed" last week. Working on a major project in an occupied home of two health care workers, husband in ER at the nearest hospital. He came down with flu? He, his wife, and his elderly in laws, refugees from California are in Quarantine. We, I guess he, haven't been informed as to a diagnoses. I wonder if he was tested. Lots of publicity about not enough tests to go around, then it takes several days to get results from a test. I like the notion of practicing on waste material. Drilling a hole, tapping it I'd do before lunch. Something intimidating about hydraulics! When Zap was facing shop closing, I mentioned the severe shortage of line boring services & hydraulic re builders. He never responded.
Dang! You and Seth stay healthy!!
I hear ya' Willie, we are busier than usual with work that must get done to keep things moving at the warehouses plus I get emergency calls from people I know to fix things like water wells that quit working!!!! and theft prevention from tweaker/homeless/scumbags along with tons of other stuff you just can't put off for a 'more convenient time'
I spoke to them this morning, Con Equip has the part, I don't know if it has been shipped yet. The guy I spoke to says I should receive it in a few days.
Have you ever looked at cylinder offerings from Magister Hydraulics ? I bought some 2" cross type and modified them to fit my JD loader that worked out okay. I haven't tried any larger ones from them but not ruling it out. Next time I need a cylinder I plan to look at the Prince offerings too
I will. In the past all the generic cylinders are engineered to be built around. I used to buy them for building wood splitters. Their specifications never quite work for a replacement application.
Sometimes the difference is advantageous. Sometimes, not so much. On my John Deere loader I got more lift capacity from larger diameter pistons and greater lift height from a longer stroke. I knew I would get that from comparing the two specifications. The loader I was rebuilding didn't have any curl cylinders on it so I just measured travel and eyelet spacing and figured the same cylinders I used for lift would work. They work okay but don't achieve full dump at full height. At 20" greater height I probably come closer to full dump at the actual height the stock cylinders would have made. All in all I am very happy with the results and got four brand new cylinders for about a forth the cost of one from John Deere. Another plus is if and when they need a rebuild I can get the same kit for all four cylinders I used. I did have to trim the cross end an 1/8" on both sides and space the rod end with some stop collars. The ports were 90* from stock which didn't create a real problem for my application. If it had I could have overcome it with some 90* fittings. The dipper on my 575E needs a rebuild and I may get out the tape measure and see if I can use a generic in it's place before I tear it down. Kits seem to be a variable on New Holland. The seals in the kit listed for my stabilizers had the right inner seals but the bearing sleeve and outer seal were wrong. I had to machine my gland nut for the outer seal to fit and reused my old bearing sleeves. CNH had superseded the gland nut and piston 3 times with no way to define which kit you might need.
More & more I want to build cylinders. As is I alter new cylinders to fit. I'm ready to try to build parts. My new rod did arrive today. I haven't confirmed, but it looks good. I would guess it to be a NOS Case part.
Now I could use some expert opinions! I reassembled my stabilizer cylinder today. Mostly, all went well. I discovered scratches in my piston. The sins of someone before me were evident. The rod I replaced was about 1/8" off straight. It was difficult to dismantle the gland thread, something I had to heat the barrel to unscrew. I can't say whether it was lock tight, or a hardening gasket compound, but it made disassembly miserable! On reassembly I discovered some scratches I hadn't seen before. Took the rough out with some 600 grit paper. Is it OK, Or does the part search have to begin anew?
Does that piston have a fibre wear ring on it..? If the answer is yes, then you should be fine.
There is a hard plastic ring cut on a diagonal fits in the wide, shallow groove. The other groove gets a square cross section "rubber" ring with a rectangular cross section ring cut to splay sideways to expand to fit over the groove. The wide open on the gland end of the piston is left open to leave clearance for the port on gland end. I think the tractor end the port is in center of the piston. Thank you. Your help is greatly appreciated.
What does the barrel look like? It may need honing if the piston rubbed on it. The new seals will keep the piston off the barrel.
That’s the wear ring. In most cylinders it’s a kind of fiber material but the function is the same. That ring (so long as it’s in good shape) keeps the lands of the pistons from touching the barrel wall.
I kind of doubt there was enough bend in this rod to cause that. Backhoe stabilizer cylinders are subject to abuse. Case hoes swing at high speed toward the stabilizer rods. This one has been apart before. Was there an earlier rod with even more damage? I got in there with my flashlight & magnifier glasses, can't see damage in the barrel. I couldn't feel it with fingers, & rooted through Mrs. B's drawer & found an old pair of panty hose. If they can't find burrs, nothing can! I believe the barrel to be perfect. I got it together, used some plumbers thread seal on the gland, I found a few tiny "wires" from thread damage disassembling it. I'm amazed how much power it takes to get a gland out of this cylinder. Two BIG men hanging on an 8 foot cheater to make it move. This was the process through 12? revolutions loosening it.
The gland nuts on my Cat turned about an 1/8" and then could be turned off easy but the barrel was threaded on the outside. I like the cylinders with bolted gland ends but they're mostly reserved for bigger machines.
Yeah, on Case, the gland thread is male, the barrel is female. I don't believe it'd be difficult if some fool didn't use loctite, or hard sealer. Clean threads, with the non hardening thread seal it wasn't difficult to put it together. I used a cheater to tighten it last 1/6 turn.
We have the same issue down here. There's one general machine shop left and the owner is in his 70's and works alone. I think a guy could take a lathe,a milling machine and a welder and stay covered up with work. Nothing fancy-just bosses that they press bushings into (weldments) and things like that. There isn't any small piecework shops. They are all CNC and want to set up and make 40 bosses at a time-not two like the guy needs.We are going to suffer when these small shops are gone.
What is the protrusion of the wear band out of the piston? just by looking at, nothing to worry about if youRe worried about it, can utilize the unused portion of the piston and turn a wider wear band groove
I'd say a few thousandths. It is now assembled, I can't measure, but not much protrusion. I don't know the source of the scratches, I hope it was in the last few threads on its way out of the barrel. It stays up, no sag, & no leaking.