Hello, I am new to working on backhoes and to this forum. My friend bought a CAT 426 backhoe and I am helping him replace some very worn hydraulic lines. I am looking for good price hoses for him. The hose that is very bad is the left stabilizer hose. It is a 1/2 inch hose. I found a hose on the Surplus Center website and they have either JIC 8F Swivel or a JIC 10F Swivel fitting. The hoses seem very reasonably in price. I figure the 8 and 10 are the size in 1/16 inch increments. The backhoe is 4 hours away from us up at his mountain farmhouse. Does anyone know what size and type fittings are on the CAT 426 Backhoe? Thanks.
Okay now that you are in the right place I guess the first thing I would ask is what is the S/N of this 426? S/N's are very important when trying to find information on most machines and very helpful for Cat equipment. A general answer would be that there is a very good chance that those lines are NOT JIC Swivels. Very likely ORFS fittings, also referred to a flat face seal fittings. Where a JIC fitting has a tapered end on it or 37º and seals by a metal to metal connection. Where a ORFS fitting the mating surfaces are flat and they have a groove in the fitting for an oring to seal the joint. JIC fitting to the left and the ORFS on the right. In both images the hose would be connected to the end facing to the left!
Here are the machine id tags: I think you should be able to see them. The machine is old.
Here are some pictures of the hose. I don't think you can tell unless they are decoupled, but maybe you know.
Every hose on that machine can be identified in a parts diagram, linked to a part number, which can then be broken down into length, style fittings, and pressure rating. Using your serial number, I picked a segment at random.
You need #10 & #11 for each stabilizer.
I think I getting the hang of this. I was looking around the CAT Parts website and came up with: https://parts.cat.com/en/foleyinc/9R-1183 This is the same thing you came up with. Many thanks for pointing me in the right direction. You guys are good!
Kshansens pictures are obviously TOP and BOTTOM, the thread style on the right on both fittings is O ring boss. Discounthydraulichose .com has a thread id download that will show almost all possible thread styles and the thread count and diameter. So all you need is a caliper and thread gauge to tell what nearly any fitting is. If the Cat sites can't get you the info, or for any other fitting.
9R-1183 is the short one with a 90° fitting on one end. The Orings are a 6V-8397, which indicates that the fittings are -6 ORFS.
Thanks Delmer, good stuff!
Thanks, now I need to figure out how to give you guys likes!
@Billy Mac I have the same machine just a little older. 7BC1596 for mine so not too far apart. All the fittings are ORFS (O-ring face seal). I have replaced those hoses on my machine along with every other hose so far except steering hoses and swing cylinder hoses. Have not got to those, yet. I found a local hose shop that will make them up for a fraction of the cost of Caterpillar. So far every hose has a matching size fitting. In other worlds a -8 (1/2") hose takes a -8 fitting. All the hoses have female ends. There are a few -10 hoses on the machine too. If you need any help let me know. I am no expert but have been working on my machine for a few months now trying to get her in top shape. I have the HIS program which comes in handy. SOme of the hoses on my machine were way too long or two piece and the detail for each part number hose helped me get things squared away.
My dealer lists that 9R1183 at $70.
My dealer lists that hose for $72.73. My local hose would charge me no more than $25. I have 7 hoses made a couple weeks ago. 4 of them are fairly long as they are for the hoe. $130 for all of them. If I had bought them from my Cat dealer they would have been over $1000. I did the math. Cat hose is supposedly a bit better than the aftermarket hose but I figure for a homeowner these hoses will be fine. Lots of equipment guys use this shop. You can buy reusable fittings and hose. Then you can make them yourself if you are so inclined. Just use a metal cutoff wheel to cut the hose.
I only listed the CAT price to inform the original poster. Myself, I'd grab the 471TC-6, 1JS43-6-6, and 1J943-6-6 off my shelf and use my Parkrimp 2 to assemble them.
They make special blades for cutting hydraulic hose and the hose needs to be thoroughly cleaned out before installing.
Good to know. I will see what I can find, if prices are high maybe I will ask for your shop's info. Thanks!
I just looked at used Parkrimp machines, very pricey I must say.
The special blades for cutting hose are only worth it if you are going to cut a lot of hose, abrasive cut off wheels work fine. You do need to get the rubber dust out, no matter what you use. Well, not neccessarily, when I was young I saw many a hose cut in the woods with a sharp axe, and good skills. No dust made that way.
We're a private contractor. I wouldn't begin to know how to bill an outside sale Back in the heyday, we started with all Komatsu, and, naturally, no one but the Komatsu dealer stocked Komatsu only hose ends, hence the machine being purchased.
You also don't want the metal grindings from the steel braids in the hose.
If you don’t get the hoses from Cat, make sure that what they give you is the same spec. There are dozens of different spec hoses in each size. Different number of wires, pressure ratings, some that need to flex a lot, others that take a lot of frequent pulsing. Pressure rating and number of wires is not the only thing that counts. For example 100R2 and 100R16, both 2- wire hose with close pressure ratings but the 100R16 has 1/2 the bend radius for tight spaces or things that really flex and bend hose tightly. It is also important to have the correct fitting. Just because the end attachment is the same does not mean it is rated for the hose or pressure it may be used on. I only use bite to the wire fittings and avoid those Weatherhead type-U bubble fittings that just grab the covering. Saw one guy putting type-U on 4,000 psi hose once... Some local guys are pretty good, especially if you only need low pressure tractor type stuff, otherwise, at least around here, I didn’t find anyone who stocked what I needed for ends and didn’t end up selling you a bunch of adapters to make their stuff fit.
Any hose-builder worth the name will sponge-gun every hose after fabrication. The sponges should be in the bag with the o-rings that is taped to one end of the hose.
Time to sharpen my axe!
Cat calls for XT3-ES -6 100R12 with a 4000psi rating. As to the post above regarding fittings for a skived hose, (is that what you meant by "bite to wire", I dunno where you've been, but very few, if any, of my high pressure hose assemblies are skived. They are just crimped to the outer jacket. Even my 78C -20 parker hoses (5k psi) , and, never have I had a hose end failure here where the fitting has come off, save for Caterpillar's thermoplastic ******** hoses.
Not talking about skived hose, either internal or external. Talking about the difference between a fitting that has large enough ridges(??) inside that when you crimp it they cut through the outer jacket and grip the Wired’s opposed to one that only grips the outer jacket. Per Parker, “Parker's 78 series fittings are cost effective, permanent, bite the wire style fittings made for easy and quick assembly using our family of Parkrimp crimpers”
A lot places don't even blow the hoses out with air. Cut the hose, put the fittings on, crimp and there you go.
In that case they aren’t real hose builders, even though they might claim to be.
I'm thinking places like Napa or some farm stores that don't fully understand how clean a system needs to be.
Comments above still apply ........... don't care what name is above the door.
I agree. If you're not getting something approximating this, then you can't be sure your hose is clean. It's been best industry practise for at least 20 years.
^^^^^^^^^^ And that, good people of HEF, is the difference between a proper hose shop and a shop that says they can build hoses..... I hope the OP's question has been well and truly answered.
About the only hoses I get made at a part store are ag stuff (you know, 15-2500 psi, gear pump, etc). I have seen a lot of methods used to "clean" out the hoses, I have seen parts store guys think I'm weird when I insist on taking the hose before the fittings are installed and beat it on the floor. I have been to a couple of hose shops that had the sponge gun, but whether they actually used it.... The only place I have ever seen the sponges in a little bag was at the Cat house. My local NAPA does a bunch of hoses, up to about 2" six wire. They stock the Cat, (code 62), fittings; but, they don't stock, and claim not to have a source for, the o-rings for them. Mostly what I do with them is buy a fitting if I don't have it and need it now, or go in their shop and make the hose I need. They have no system for cleaning out hoses. At my shop, I have a 3/4" air line with a cone on the end, and I stick the end of the hose out the door and open a ball valve, not a sponge gun, but better than sticking my mouth on it and blowing, too.
Are the sponges blown through before the fitting is crimped ? My thinking is insert sponge, blow through at home.
Attached the Hose Assembly procedure to answer all your questions......
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that some places that do hoses don't properly clean them out. I don't think hoses necessarily need to have the sponges returned but some places don't even put caps on the ends. Places that do hoses as a convenience for their customers may not have the best practices. On my Cat somebody, before me, used non Cat hose with Cat reusable fittings and stuck steel and plastic shims on the hose to take up the difference. This was on the main hose to the control valve. The Cat fittings require special tooling so how this could happen makes it even more baffling. Hoses aren't where you want to cut corners and on the other hand some places charge ridiculous prices for hoses. I found a hyd. repair shop that does good work and charges reasonable prices to make up hoses.
It certainly seems like you are from where I'm sitting. There is a right way to build hoses - see the doc 2 posts above. This is a standard that was first published close to 20 years ago so it is nothing new. Any repiutable hose shop will use it or something like it, not just the Cat dealer. If a customer wants hoses built the right way then with the information provided they ought be able to locate a hose shop that works to industry standards. If they choose to do it another way then they cannot claim they were not informed before taking that decision, and presumably accept any negative consequences that might accompany said decision.
Sorry if there was some confusion but on my desktop monitor the two pictures are side by side.
The two photos appeared side by side on my screen also.
I was just trying to point out that although there are industry standards for cleaning hyd. hose not all places follow it. It would be best to inquire before having a hose made at a shop you're not familiar with.
above and below on my desktop, weird
Interesting to know about the "projectiles" that are used to clean the hose. The shop I use only blows them out with air before crimping the fittings. I guess that is not good enough. Learn something new everyday.
Youtube links to 2 of the popular brands...Interesting watch
Probably was good enough back in the 1970's, even back then might have been questionable. I will admit to doing the same thing many times. But with the finer tolerances and higher pressures of the newer equipment not good enough these days. And you might get away with it 99% of the time but the one time you don't will probably cost you more than all the tools and sponges you will use in a life time making hoses.
Mitch, Who you calling weird? I resemble that remark!