I am new to the forum and new to excavators. I have a 2006 John Deere 160C LC and am having so weird issues. So when I cut the hydraulics off one of my tracks decides it want to keep moving. When the hydraulics are on and I function the boom the track picks up speed like I’m tracking it. When I try to switch direction of that track it keeps going in the same direction which is reverse. When I track the other track it does as commanded but at the same time the boom want to move up on its own. I am a crane operator offshore for my full time job so I know a little about hydraulics and I figure it could be something to do with the pilot manifold. But a friend of mine that is a heavy equipment mechanic said it sound like a stuck spool valve. I have no clue where that’s at or how to test it or remove it. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Your friend might be right! When you lift up on lever all pilot supposed have no pressure. Looks like something is stuck pushing that spool to reverse direction, and it does it every time pump gets stroked up. I only worked on couple of JD/Hitachi machines, if I remember correctly those have spool travel limiters, any chance someone was messing with it and adjusted to extreme?! Or just whole bunch of crap underneath of centering spring.
Well before I purchased the machine it had a new main hydraulic pump installed along with a new engine. Everything done by John Deere so it was done right and all pressures were adjusted to spec. This machine does have priority flow dividers and a hydraulic stroke kit installed as well. When I purchased the machine it had a mulching head on it and that’s the scope of my work anyway. But I just so happened to have the bucket on it shoving trees when when all this happened. I know that mulching head wreaks havoc on hydraulic systems. As soon as my buddy gets me an exploded drawing I will be able to find out exactly where that spool valve is located. Also been told to be extremely careful removing and reinstalling a spool valve as to not scar up the orifice it sits in or I’ll been in for some serious money lol.
Front spool valves work tracks. Left and right. Easy to disassemble and inspect the top and pull spool out. But inspecting bottom is a bit more involved. Control valve is a pain to pull.
Welcome to HEF Andy ! Serial number? I suggest removing both the hydraulic filter and the pilot filter and cut them open to inspect for debris.
I was planning on doing that. Hopefully I don’t have any debris in it fingers crossed lol.
By "when I cut the hydraulic off" do you mean when you take your hands off the travel lever or do you mean when you disengage the hydraulic activation lever? I had a terrible experience with the later last week
When I disengage the hydraulics.
Does disengage the hydraulics mean shifting the hydraulic lock out lever to shut off all the hydraulic functions? I ask only to make it clear to all who are reading this. The english language can be a pretty deceptive way to speak. Just ask any lawyer.
Sorry for the lingo I’m from Louisiana. It means when I flip the hydraulic level to off aka no mo’ hydraulics lol.
Is this what I am looking for to fix?
For the track issue. I would suspect that has to be the spool valve that actuates the track. It would stick. Fluid from the pilot circuit pushes on the top or bottom of the spool to move it. That spool then lets oil flow to the track motor. I would also think that when you disengage the pilot cut off there is probably a dump valve that lets all pressure out of the pilot system. You need to pull the spool vavle and check for debris. Also using a gauge on the pilot controls at the spool would be a good idea. I think they run 600 psi. I went through a nightmare with a 160clc and this very thing. Have it 90% sorted. Just out of curiousity has the hydraulic pump been replaced?
If the hydraulic shut off lever isn't in the OFF position, there shouldn't be a single action on the machine. I worked on an excavator which Nige sent me hydraulic schematics for (thanks to him by the way) ,but someone almost lost his life there because the hydraulic connections had been truncated already before I was called. This is what the machine does,the moment you start it up,the boom attempts to lift and it weighs down the engine but if you then hold the joystick in the boom lift position it lifts without weighing the engine down. If you decide to move the machine you could appear before a jury,because the first thing it does is to drop the boom uncontrollably to the ground .what ever lever you operate ,the boom responds first by dropping. When you leave the joystick and travel levers alone it attempts to lift and continue to weigh down on the engine. All this happens with the hydraulic lever NOT activated yet
The disastrous mistake was under the control valve, "the pilot manifold ". The "pressure from charge pump filter" was swapped with "return to tank",and also the "pressure to cabin" which should be activated by the solenoid was also swapped with "return from cabin". Hence the hydraulic activation override. You said engine and pump was changed right? Also check if pilot lines have been truncated, I have no Idea of John Deere machines but they pretty much have the same working principles. Sorry for the long write up,I love details. Latiff
The machine I worked on was a cat 320cl formerly a Jack hammer but converted to an excavator by removing all attachment lines,and valves, that's where the mistake was made
It sounds like the main control valve spools are not centering. Let me just throw this out there...…...hydraulic work can KILL you if you don't know what your doing. Hydraulic lines and tubing can be pressure loaded even when the engine is off. Removal of hoses and spools can cause functions of the machine to shift when the pressure is released, and if your not ready to react when that happens, your the latest story on the evening news. High pressure streams of oil can penetrate your skin very easily. Take every precaution you can think of, all advise given to you, and then even more precautions.
Why was the pump changed? Failure?
I was under impression that everything worked good after it had pump and engine swapped out, and then things started happening. Is it correct, or you had these problems right after the swap?
There are 2 dead spots in the back of the control valve. If the pump failed and sent metal through the system.. Fluid will push the metal debris to these spots. If the control valve wasnt completely disassembled and the hydraulic system cleaned the debris will eventually work their way out. The debris effect the track circuits and the regen valves 1st in my experience.
Thank y’all for all of the replies and info. Before I bought the machine the owner stated power loss issues. So they must have had some money because they replaced the engine and main hydraulic pump through John Deere. The chief mechanic and the John Deere place made me aware of a pilot issue. He showed me to tip the left stick just a little if my functions were sluggish. He said if would be fine to run that a piece of trash was probably stuck and didn’t get flushed out when they changed out the main pump. They set all the pressures to spec and to my mulching head on the auxiliary side. I sat out there last weekend running it and running it trying to get any debris to pass to no avail. So I’m headed offshore today and my buddy that’s a heavy equipment mechanic is supposed to be checking it out. But he’s a former Cat mechanic and doesn’t know much about JD stuff. So I was wondering if those prints I posted is what he needs to look at.
Sounds like that story you got is not the hole truth. It sounds to me that pump blew and sent debris threw the system.
Well after being offshore 3 weeks and endless calls to my mechanic buddies.......it was a stuck right propel spool on the 4 spool side of the control valve. That thing was STUUUUUUUCK! So stuck that my pry bar broke the bolt holding the spring on. Luckily I was able to spin that little M8 out of the top of the spool. I made a puller and pulled it out and of course a lot of metal came with it. Spool looks good and getting a local machine shop to make me a new bolt for the spring. For some reason John Deere doesn’t offer the bolt or the spool individually......
A control valve spool is normally matched to the hole in the valve body by polishing one or the other, or both. That's why they are usually not available as a spare part because a replacement could never be guaranteed to be a correct fit in the body. It would most likely be either too tight or too loose.
I would have to agree.You may have more grief after you solve your current problem.The only way to get rid of pump failure debris is to take the whole hydraulic system apart and hog out every hose which is a hideously expensive operation and having a mulching head does not help things.
Mister Nige - that is seriously outdated technology! Not sure about specialized DCVs Like in excavators, but in contemporary multi section valve banks everything is interchangeable, and unless something damaged - everything fits like glove, and there’s about 25 different spools you can order and install in the same section! Just couple months ago worked on 6 section of HAWE PSV size3 followed with 3 sections of the same size2, in one bank. But last week ordered 3 single spool monoblock Prince DCVs, and was very surprised when was told that I cannot just buy motor spools for the already existing valves! First thought was “is Prince manufacturing is still stuck in 1960?!? But that’s just cheepo Prince!
Recounting experience, that's all. It may be outdated technology, just like the steam locomotive, but it still works so don't knock it..!! I just had a quick trawl and not a single machine out of the current fleet I work with offers a spool as a replaceable spare part for a main function control valve. I can't imagine it would be any different with other models and/or manufacturers. There is also the consideration that most people who might go into one of these valves to "repair" it most probably have neither the tooling nor the ability to be able to determine whether the individual valve components are in a fit state to go again or not. This could also be a contributing factor why individual spare parts are not offered for sale.
I Quit trying to understand why dealers ( and manufacturers) sell their parts like they do long time ago!!! Currently I can’t find special bolts for char-Lynn gerotor motors anywhere in timely manner. 10 days is NOT timely manner!!! Lots of times it doesn’t make any sense beside making more money charging for stuff that no one need! I guess there’s reasons, but only known to them!!!
Well I dropped it off to John Deere and had a quote of 5700.00 to pull the control valve clean it, rebuild/redress it, and flush the entire hydraulic system. Their most senior mechanic of 30 years is working on it sooooooo I hope that’s all that is wrong with it. It started acting up again after I pulled the propel spool to clean it and polish it. A couple of other spools on the 4 spool side we’re getting stuck but I had to finish that job lol. The mechanic did say there was ALOT of metal in the control valve so fingers crossed for now as I can’t be there right now due to me being offshore. Thanks for the replies.
Hold on to your wallet. I think there will be some hidden charges coming. Just the control valve R&R would run close to $2K+, then they have to disassemble and clean. There is no way (IMO) that you are going to get a proper flushing with what is remaining ($2700). Not to mention what debris is in the rest of the system that could end up back into your control valve starting the whole process over. It is one thing to have a little sparkly oil that can be filter caddied, but if you have pieces big enough to stick a spool you have bigger issues. A typical catastrophic hydraulic system cleanup at our facility on a machine that size would run in to $20,000 - $30,000 range .
Sorry for the lingo I’m from Louisiana. It means when I flip the hydraulic level to off aka no mo’ hydraulics lol.