Would any of you guys be able to point me in the right direction as to what kind of machine, serial numbers or part numbers so I can find a 3304 engine driven hydraulic pump? best I can tell it needs to be about 32 gpm at 100 psi and clockwise rotation when viewed from the drive end. its going in a 941 and the old pump from the D330c engine is not compatible. Plus I do not have it as it was not in the parts pile I purchased. pictured is where it needs to fit on the 3304 engine. the lower cover under the water pump drive
Measure pilot hole, distance between bolt hole centers and shaft size and type ( key, splines ). Then google SAE pump Mount. CAT likes to make things difficult with proprietary stuff, but who knows! If the standard mount don’t match your shaft - do not dispare! Talk to your local PTO dealer ( Chelsea, Muncy etc.) usually it’s people who sell stuff to towing and dump trucks. They should be able to get the Parker P16 pump body and put whatever front and rear cover plates with whatever port type and orientation you need. Are you sure you want only 100 psi, maybe you missed a zero?!
I am sure the pump develops more pressure than 100 psi. The 32 gpm at 100psi is a value given in the service manual. I dont know why they chose to rate it at that pressure. The pump needs to have a shaft to be gear driven. I think this is gona be pretty cat specific parts.
From what very limited information I can find it looks to me like the 941 and 951 series all kept the engine mounted hydraulic pump 7J0583 all the way up through the c series. now the 941 had the d330c engine and the pump mount is via an adapter plate to the 7j0583 pump. Now this is where I need an old timer well versed in cat and cat parts but correct me if I am wrong but the Band C series 941 and 951s had the pure 3304 engine right? So I am thinking maybe I need the adapter for the 7J0583 pump to fit a 3304 engine group? Of course I do not have the manuals available to confirm my suspicions. Do any of you have the hydraulic pump pages from a parts book on a 941 or 951 b through c series? And can anyone confirm my thoughts on engine usage for those series machines?
The 941 started out with a D330c and became B series when the 3304 came along. There is no C series of the 941. The original 951 had the early D330 , became B series with D330c , and C series with 3304 . Hope that helps a little as far as the engine usage goes (and happy to be corrected on any of it).
workshoprat92, Would this be what you are looking for? Looks like it is the pump that would mount to the backside of the front cover on that engine and drive off the oil pump idler.
That helps a bunch. So what im looking for is a pump off a 941b or a 951c!
That definatly looks like that would be it. Where did you get that drawing? It looks like its on compter version of cats parts books. I used to be able to acces a system like that through the local cat dealer. The system changed and I can no longer get to drawings like that.
Got that off SIS, still surprised that I still have access from my old job I retired in 2015! Might just be because I use it so much no one knows I'm not working there any more! I know I had a problem with the Sterling truck site back when I was still working. We only had the one truck so I only went on that site a couple times a year and most of the time it would not let me on saying it was an inactive account. Guess they figure if you own one of their trucks it should be breaking down more often that ours did!
Looks like a bunch of the part numbers may have been superseded with something elss. When I do an internet search nothing comes up. I would think there should be plenty of it out there!
8J-8367 Vane Pump Gp replaced by 9J-5080. Can't see a price for it, system says there is an indirect replacement. Seems as though there are plenty of aftermarket replacements for 9J-5080 around on t'interweb. Yellowmark Part Number 422-8141 also available - $500 in round numbers.
Yep thats what i saw on the pump also as far as interchange. I dont see many on there for sale though. The ones that i really cannot find is the drive gear and adaptor plate. I dont even mind a reasonable price used unit. Just need to get past the holiday si I can call some dismantlers now that I know what im looking for
Could you look up for me the oil cooler and hyd oil cooler group on the side of the 3304 engine for a 941b for me please?
This looks like a great deal on the pump. What do you guys think? http://www.fluidpowershop.com/caterpillar-aftermarket/caterpillar-cat-9j5080-9j-5080-vane-pump/
The 3304 engine was first fitted to the 951C at Serial No 69H2520, the change from the 951B to the 951C came in at Serial No 69H1869 in the U.K. so there is a few C's floating about with the 330C engine in them, the Hydraulic pump you are after is the Vickers 19 gpm set-up, I do have 1 on the shelf good used but sad to say the postage would be a Bear, make sure you get a pump with the correct shaft drive ??? tctractors
As I see it following along as best I can, you're looking for an 8J8368 pump group (w/gear & adapter) which uses a 8J8367 pump which is equivalent to a 9J5080 pump only.
If the one I posted the picture of is the right one it appears to have an adapter plate that bolts to it where the one in the picture you posted has the bolt flange as part of the bearing housing of the pump. Also the pump I posted the picture of has a shaft with a threaded end to attach the drive gear and the one in your picture has a splined shaft. Have to say I'm getting a little confused with the pumps. Seems some pictures are showing them with external threads on the end for a nut to retain the gear and others showing the pump having a drilled and tapped hole for a bolt and washer to retain gear and then the one in the link workshoprat92 posted shows a splined shaft with nothing to retain a gear. I'm thinking the best thing might be to find a used pump with a gear and adapter as a complete unit and then if needed rebuild it with a new cartridge, bearing and seals.
Although one of my parts book illustrations shows a pump without splines the shaft part number used shows all are the same 8J8624 including illustration with splines
Yes exactly! I think lol! The 9j5080 is pump only. It is also a crossed part number from the 8j836 pump. I then need to find the adaptor and the gear! Again or so I think?
I think the confusion is where on the link i sent the picture is not that of an actual 9j5080 pump. It threw me also till i realized it says stock photo. Meaning here is a generic photo of a pump and not necessarily the pump we are selling. I have run into that a bunch with online stuff and gave learned to call them and send a photo of the actual unit they are selling. Usually the parts guy is more than happy to comply as its pretty easy to do with smart phones now! I believe the 9j5080 pump should have the hole in the shaft for the gear retainer bolt. Should know tommorow as we get back to regular business hours and I can make some calls!
Hey! I'm just glad to see TCTractors back on here!
Well i found the pump,adapter gear, basically the whole assembly at salvage yard here in missouri. Im gona go get it at my first earliest convenience. Thanks so much for helping me find the part numbers! The gear and adapter plate is basically not attainable from cat or from aftermarket. Cat does have one gear left in thier parts system but they want $453 plus all the usual shipping fees! I think the used one will be the way to go. A cartridge kit for the pump is still avalible!
It is a vickers vane pump. There are probably 10 or 15 aftermarket parts suppliers. You might check Metaris Hydraulics
It might be worth the verbs to say the T/loader pump is 19 gpm the D4D pump is 21 gpm. tctractors
The early 951 Shovel was fitted with the 4 1/2" bore 330 engine, then the 951A came out with the 4 3/4" bore 330C engine, this engine was carried over to the new Powershift 951B, and was also fitted to the first few 951C's before the release of the 3304 PC engine in the Spring of 1973. tctractors
Not sure i follow you. The repair manual shows the pump to be rated at 32gpm @ 100 psi. Intresting the dozer pump would be more gpm than the track loader pump. I would figire it to be the other way around but im sure it makes sense somewhere in engineering!
Just thinking off top of my head, do the two pump run at the same RPM. Do they both run off the same gears in the front cover like the engine you posted a picture of?
According to my Cat Service Manual the 8J8367 pump is rated at 31.3 gpm and 100 psi at 2000 rpm and engine at 2000 rpm and 29.9 gpm at 1000 psi and pump and engine at 2000 rpm. This is for a power shift machine, runs about 1 gpm less for a direct drive machine running at 1900 rpm
Yes the machine it is going in is a power shift machine.
The pump off the d330c engine mounts completly different than the pump on the 3304 engine. While the d330c and 3304 share the same block, head, bore and stroke the front gear case group is entirely different. Both run the pump off the same gear but again pump mount is different. The pump rating. For a 941,941b,951 and 951b or c all have the same gpm rating. From what I can tell its all basically the same pump. Just the only differences are the mounting and main shaft. The main shaft is different for different style gear mounting. In the end flow rates and all that stuff does not matter and the only deciding factor is gona be what will or will not mount to my engine. The sis parts system picture that you posted is the correct pump,mounting and gear for my engine. I have located on and am just waiting for a break in work to be able to go get it. Also both engines are out of track loaders. I am pulling a 3304 out of a 955L and putting it in a 941.
Not so fast!!!! D330C and 3304 heads are not the same. Check the water/pump connections, they are different. Only late after market heads have dual application features to accommodate both.
Yes i understand there may be some minor difference in places. Noticed the same thing on the block where the 3304 oil cooler mou t has the holes for dual purpose where the d330c block does not. Either way minus the minute differences in these areas its the same basic engine. There is a far greater amount of interchangabity than i had imagined!
The engine mount dimensions are exactly the same as well as the flexible coupling is exactly the same. The biggest challange so far has been the hyd pump and the oil cooler mounting but i think i about got that wipped. I think lol!!! I just need this piece off a late model 3304 and I can piece engine and trans oil cooler together with all my other pieces
Just to clear up a detail, the 8J8367 Hydraulic Pump Group in the U.K. is rated as a 19 GPM pump that is with the cartridge assembly 7J559, the fact is we use imperial gallons and pumps are most often rate set in Europe and U.K. at 1'000 rpm, the U.S. Gallon is only . 8 of our gallon, but that is how we have the pump listed. tctractors
[QUOTE =“kshansen，帖子：831466，成员：28629”] workshoprat92， 这会是你想要的吗？ [ATTACH =满] 201361 [/ ATTACH] 看起来它是安装在发动机前盖后侧的泵并驱动油泵惰轮。[/ QUOTE] w ^here can i find this software?
Ah yes i forgot about the us uk standards difference. Guess i just assumed you were talking us standard! Lol!
Finally made it out to Zimmerman tractor in Versailles mo. They had the pump and all the other oil cooler parts i needed to make this transplant happen. Should get a chance soon to put it all together. Grand total $655 which i thought was real reasonable! Stay tuned!
Some assembly required!
All the parts fit like a champ and i think im golden on this transplant!
The definition of frustration! Its saturday and you have your engine ready to set in the machine and you go to change the seal to the transmission input, you know cause its super easy at that point and then when you pull the seal out and fnd a broken clip that holds the shaft in place and no parts places are open till monday morning! All work dead stop over a $3 stuipid clip Anyhow here is the 3304 configured to go where a D330c once sat!
Got the engine in and the loader started today. It goes into gear but im not getting any hydraulics. Do i need to bleed or burp the pump?
Got the engine in and the loader started today. It goes into gear but im not getting any hydraulics. Do i need to bleed or burp the pump?
Try putting about 10psi of shop air on the hydraulic tank..?
this might help in the future 25VQ PARTS AND SERVICE.pdf ure
Well we are getting oil to and through the pump. We can crack the pressure hose and we got oil but no pressure. Remember i purchased this pump mounting and gear all from a junkyard and nonothing about the pump itself. I have two thoughs going. First the gear is not making contact and driving the pump. There is no way to find this out with the pump installed. Im gona have to split the pump apart and fit the shaft carrier front portion up and then i can make sure im getting gear contact. Second I am thinking maybe the pump is set up for tje wrong rotation for our application? Looking at the post from f311fr1 i see the pump can be changed for rotation. Either way im gona have to split the pump apart. Keeping my fingers crossed lol!
Rotation of the pump is determined while facing the shaft, The outside of the ring ring might have a number stamped on it. That would be GPM @ 1200 RPM. Cartridge kits are available from the aftermarket at resonable $. Pay attention to the slant of the outside of the vanes. It matters which way this taper goes. PSI is resitance to flow. pull the pump apart and inspect the internals. If you have questions as to serviceabillty post pictures. Your pump will probably only have 3 pieces to the sandwich rather that 5. The 3 piece is an older design and the 5 piece is newer. Both types will work in your housing and the 5 piece style is designed for mobile application.
Attached is the service sheet for the 3 piece type cartridge
One thing I would be checking while pump is apart would be to see if the vanes all move free in the slots in the rotor. If it has been sitting a long time the vanes could be gummed up. If possible take a few pictures when you take pump apart so we can get a look at the various parts and how they are assembled. I always liked the Vickers pump as if familiar with them it was easy to tell if they were good or bad at a glance.