ok, my left tilt cylinder just started squeaking like crazy, very loud high pitch squeak, when I have it at about half to full tilt started out of the blue, worked fine, was parked for about 6-7 weeks, and then started squeaking? a buddy told me to just add some of this CAT's Anti-Chatter hydraulic oil additive, but I think my system has just 30 weight oil in it, so NOT sure if that would mix right or not> anyone know if I can add this or?? something else to stop the squeak? and or what is causing it to happen like this? NO leaks on cylinder or any lines, fluid level is exact same, just above the full mark! I am NO MR fix it, so any info would be appreciated! machine is a new holland LX 865
Well....is everytning greased well? No dry pins? That's the first place I'd start. I've heard many squeak and it's usually pins lacking in grease. Those darn grease worms will getcha every time!
no I am a border line over grease type, grease before and after each use, its coming from the cylinder as best I can tell, as its ONLY squeaking at exact same point, at about half tilt to full tilt, and only on the left side I tried even spraying pivot joints with some oil to see if that would stop it and didn;t change anything so I am sure its from that cylinder, and not sure why?
Sure you don't have a rock, or piece of debris somewheres, scratching, as the angle changes?
yup, check for that too, does it with bucket off and nothing in the way or rubbing anything, and it doesn't sound like its coming from a pivot pin or bushing either, , all thought I do have a little slop side to side like on the top pin/bushing, but NO sound from it but it does move about an 1/8 inch when it makes the sound, but think its just dumb luck like and not an actual cause of things?
could also be a bent or dented cyl or cyl rod. Sometimes things can bend a little on the inside without being visible, unless the bend rod gets worse. look for scraped area on the rod, at full extension...
I doubt its a bent cylinder, as the machine worked fine and its basically just for snow removal and moving some dirt at my place it worked fine and didn;t do any heavy lifting or abuse to bend anything, last time it was used, NO squeak it sat for a few weeks and now squeak> so, cannot see it bending from just sitting?
If the pins are well lubed, I'd look into this, but I'm no expert. The hydraulic pressure can force the cylinder to move even with a slightly bent rod or dinged tube. I had sort of the same issue on a front end loaded, turned out the main lift cylinders had somehow gotten a little ding in them. Only found out when I stripped all the cylinders for a repack. Just some food for thought, a cylinder with a 4" bore at 2500 psi will be exerting 31,425 lbs of force.
ok thanks, but again, I cannot see how it could have bent or even got damaged doing the little light work with it I used it for, as again it didn;t squeak last time used, but did so all day today, and it just sat from last use? and last time it was used , it was used with a set of forks on it to move a few pallets of light things about(under 500 lbs) and then parked? NO squeaks at all and now make the noise, every time the tilt cylinder is tilted past 1/2 way and squeaks all the way to max tilt and back up then quiet? I can feel the cylinder and its as smooth as can be, NO noticeable dings or anything funny on it? I guess anything is possible, I just find it funny, to work fine and then sit and now have issue's, when nothing was done to it since last time, and I am the ONLY one that uses it? back to my above first post, would anyone know if I can add some of that cat stuff to my system to see if that helps? I don;'t want to really mix anything in the system if I can help it, as had all new fluids installed last Sept. and maybe about 50 hrs IF that on it since then, maybe more like 35 hours to be honest!, have to check to be exact if that matters! but is it OK to add that to 30 weight oil,? any issue's it can have if I did? have two cat dealers about 30-45 miles from, so I gather IO can grab it at one of them to try if it would NOT hurt anything?
It could have a slight bend in it. Not enought to see any scuff marks on the rod but enough that the piston could be tearing up the cylinder bore inside.
OK so the cylinder could be being damaged on the inside? OK, I can see that but I cannot understand out it could have gotten damaged from just sitting, ran machine for 11 months off and on, NO squeak, parked it for a few weeks and now squeak stars?? how could a cylinder bend from sitting? HOW would I know if its bent on the inside, would it have to come off machine and then be taken apart? any special tools needed to do this? again, its a NH LX865 skid steer? and Thanks for all the help/suggestions so far, appreciate it!
It could possibly be a seal or support bushing coming off the piston that you're hearing. I missed the part where you said it was parked.
ok thanks, but again, how would I know what's wrong or not> does it have to come off and apart to know if a seal was bad, wouldn;t it be leaking > I say this as to be honest only experience I have with this , some what, would be motorcycle front shocks, and when a fork seal goes they leak? which I am gathering is the sort of same with bad hydro cylinder? Or< can there seals go bad and NOT leak? I do know that I am having a slight leak down on my tilt, as when I have a fully loaded bucket, and try to travel with it, it will start to creep down on me, BUT only when on a rather heavy bucket of material, other wise it says put! NOW?/ like what is normal bleed down in time or?
Easiest way to check for a failing cylinder without disassembling anything would be to work the tilt hard. Heavy loads, run it over relief etc. Get the oil warmed up. Then take a temperature gun and shoot both tilt cylinders. If one tilt cylinder is significantly hotter than the other tilt cylinder, odds are the hot cylinder is bypassing internally.
OK<L well I don't have a temp gun, so? that's good info, but not a help for me LOL I will ask about and see if I can find one however and try that if I can! but any ball park guess on what is normal like bleed down, like Is aid, if I lift front wheels off ground with bucket and tilt, what is a normal time frame to bleed back down where wheels are back on ground, NO support from tilt cylinders? would it be minutes or hours?? just to see if I have normal or below normal here??
The piston seal inside can be leaking without it leaking externally. The rod seal on the gland is what leaks externally. If the piston seal is broken down it could cause the squeaking. I THINK I've had seals go bad from sitting with a load on them. Possibly even from thermal expansion of the oil causing a blowout, I don't think this could happen on a skid steer, but maybe? Ten minutes is not abnormal for a the wheels to be on the ground in my opinion. It's not a crane or man lift, it's not built to that standard. Take a straight edge to the cylinder rod with it fully extended, that is the easiest thing to check. If you don't have a temp gun, buy one, or feel the cylinders with your hands. Could also take the pins out of the end of the cylinders and prop them up so they operate freely and independently. One will move easier than the other, but if you tie some twine to keep the easier one closed, you should be able to get a sense of how stiff the squeaky one is with the engine running. If you can move them each by hand the full range then don't worry about it.
OK so 10 minutes is on the fast side then? and I get there not made to stay and hold things for long periods of time, just wasn't sure HOW long is short and what is normal like? as for the cylinders, I will look at them more tomorrow or so(have to turn out of town in the in the AM, and will try the straight edge to them and see if I see anything bent there! as for taking them off, again are any special tools needed, I have never removed cylinders before, so, new to me, I don't have a shop here, but do have assorted hand tools can I also run maybe just remove at the bucket end(bucket off course) to try and see if I can find a difference between them side to side or?? or better to fully remove them? any tips on removing them too would be appreciated! this is my first skid steer! and first time working on them here
OH< and I will buy a heat temp gun too, will grab one while out of town!
yes, disconnect the rod end from the bucket/coupler frame. You could leave the bucket on, just tip it down so the cylinders are exposed, prop the cylinders up with wood blocking. One cylinder might move by pushing the oil into the other cylinder until one hits the end. Depending on your control valves, it might operate with the engine off to move the cylinders. Don't be surprised if they don't move by hand. If you want to fix the cylinders yourself, leave them on and take the gland and rod out with the bucket down, wood blocking supporting the cylinder. IF you need to take them somewhere, you just need to get the pins out and the hoses loose. Do it with the rods retracted.
ok thanks for the above info. a question or two, if you don't mind YES I will end up taking them some place to get rebuilt when I remove the lines to them, HOW much oil will come out? and will it continue to drain one there disconnected from the cylinders! and what would happen if I start the machine after there off? is this a NO NO! sorry for being dumb here, just never took them off before, and if possible would like to drive the machine close to my tool shed, and then once off drive it back to where I park it if possible, but if they will leak a lot of oil, I would not do this< and just remove them some place where it won't be such a big deal on fluid dripping all over and then for removal of them, its better to remove the bucket end first and then the end closer to the machine last! any guess at about how heavy each one is? just a ball park so I have an idea, I have back issue's that limit many things on me, so I know to have help about or not?? Thanks again, and appreciate all the help/info
I rebuilt mine couple months ago. Its not hard. Bought a dinner wrench to get the caps off. You'll need a large wrench to get the but off the rod. And a cheater bar. I Drained all the fluid as it looked like pea soup.
ok you lost me, what is a " dinner wrench " ? I had all the fluid drained and replaced last sept(or paid to any how, say PAID to as I also paid to have the gear box/drive box fluids changed and found out past winter they were never done, had water in them that kept freezing on e,, but also paid for that to have been replaced but apparently wasn't?) fluid in tank looks like new however, so HOPING they did replace it, but will see what color it is when cylinders come off I guess?
They will drip at least a cup each. The fluid usually does keep coming for a while, if you want to move it, you might be able to get one hose to loop back to the other line, take one hose off and use the other to loop back. Might or might not be the same threads, just look before you force it. Otherwise you can buy caps for the four lines and not worry about bugs, dirt, or oil dripping. If you don't touch the tilt it shouldn't leak too much running it, but I don't know the specifics of that... Retracted they will have less oil in them, around 50 pounds a piece? you can drain the oil out the port to haul them. I would remove them rod end first and put the blocking in place, retract the rods, then take the hoses off, then lift the cylinder up from a nice waist level horizontal position. Depending on what you see of course, I'm just thinking that's how I'd try to make it easiest. He probably meant a spanner wrench. As long as the cylinders aren't dented on the outside, scored on the inside, then they should be easy to rebuild in place. Take the rod out, pin the rod end back in to break the nut loose, then clean it all up and put it back together.
Yeah rebuilding them yourself in place may prove to be cheaper, faster and better than removing them to send them out. Repacking cylinders is easy, hardest part is just taking lines off and braking the cylinder down. You should need a heavy breaker bar and cheater to get the piston nut off, mark the rod and nut so you can retighten to the same torque. Ive also had good luck with the eBay rod seal installer tool on these small cylinders, really speeds up reassembly and I don't have to fight seals to seat right.
Sorry. Spanner wrench.
OK thanks guys, for all the info I stopped into a NH dealer while out of town today, MAN< what a LOUSY experience I got there the service manager was like a jerk when I asked him a few questions, when I ask to look up a part or two, he refused to, told me he didn't use micro fiche, as at this point in time, he has them all in his head? then he told me my skid steer didn;'t have things it has, I have a left and right side drive with its own dip sticks and gear oil as I have water in my right side and it freezes when below freezing and machine won'tr move. SO I asked him what they would charge to drain and re fill at which point he told my my machine didn;t have the set up I said it did, and they never did??(new holland) at which point again I ask him to pull up the micro fiche on my model, and see that it does he refused and sort of laughed at me when I told him I had a dip stick by each foot, one for each drive side? he told me I didn't?? best part was, he has a LX 885 on the lot same set up as mine and he refused to go and let me show him the 2 dip sticks?? SO so, trying to find a way to get them up and going SO< this project will get side tracked till I can get time to get back at it NEVER a dull moment when you want to get things fixed it seems; But I will reply back here when I get back at this
Allskidsteers.com
thanks, I just happened to be very close to a NH dealer, so stopped in to ask and see> and if they had in stock for a fair price I would have grabbed seat kits? but will look at your link later on when I have more time, THANKS!
I thought it was easier with the bucket off. Its out of the way plus you can manipulate the qa plate. When all the fluid drenched the qa plate that's the best the lever handles have ever worked.
yeah I was thinking the bucket of would give me more room to work as well as for the QA handles, , have to be honest on this machine there loose as can be, super easy to use, almost too easy LOL but better than fighting them I am sure!
I had similar problem with my lift cylinder on my 310SJ backhoe. Ended up being rusted gland causing the squeaking. This is what the hydraulic shop told me when they disassemble it. I also posted on the forum when I had this problem but I could not find it. I would have liked to post the link.
It's here Canadian_digger ----> HeavyEquipmentForums
OK thanks for the thought I contacted a friend of a friend that works on machines, IF he gets time , he said he will come over and rebuild my cylinders and have a good look at things and find my issue, so, now am waiting to see when he can get here. but thanks for all the suggestions and help will update when I find out what was wrong /problem was!
ok just a follow up here to close things out I had both cylinders rebuilt, I re[placed all bushings and pin's on the tilt cylinder and attachment plate and the squeaking we think was coming from the slop in the bushing causing the lower bushing to twist a little when I was lowering the tilt cylinder, as it was NOT welded in and you could see how it was being worn? NOT sure why it JUST started when it did, maybe just enough slop in things to allow to twist, and the sound was travelling up the cylinder, making it sure sound like it w s hydraulic squeak? but all things are good now, nice and tight too LOL
Probably got a chance to build a little rust when it sat unused. Doesn't take much to make a squeak. Must not have been greased enough by the previous owner. When you have your bucket of shoot some light oil into the holes in the quick tach and by the springs in there. My New Holland release levers get tight if I don't give them a shot every couple months.
well I am a guy that greases before and after every use, I don' think it could have been a dry joint like issue but maybe the bushing that wasn't welded in, , could have been dry between things there as grease doesn't get in there? spraying oil I am sure would have helped on that ?? but any how, she's back to being both squeak free and good and tight fittings again, so a win win LOL