Last load of wood supply, I had plenty for the upcoming winter. It had been under cover more than a year. #1 son had a change of living situation. Four cord was enough, suddenly I need 14 cord. Both sons dug in a week ago Saturday. three 10 yard loads of wood Saturday, two loads (one less sons) Sunday. Monday we were besieged with mechanical problems. 1 chainsaw had mysterious chain/bar/sprocket incompatibility issues. Other saw; a Leprechaun must have snuck in & ground the chain to nothing. Nobody touched it, but it was over ground. Late day, I said even a dull chain will cut one more tree. I was wrong! Ended up felling it with a 30 year old saw we used to carry on a snowmobile. This weekend, Saturday was eaten up with interruptions. Sunday, Seth cleaned the town spring, I was on my own. I had two cord on the ground including three 20' long Oak logs biggest being 30" diameter. I marked them out to length, cut down to near the ground. Rolling them over was next step. As i reached with the backhoe, I got a face full of oil! A hose had ruptured. It proved to be the extend-a-hoe coupling out of reach. At length I figured out I could add oil, Pin it in transport position, & drive it home. Seth came along. It was a gooey mess! Not a big job to remove the bucket & dipper assembly if one could see any components. It was a greasy, nasty mess!. It is now apart. I'll repack the cylinder, replace the two hoses & put it back. Might get my wood next weekend.
That’s what makes firewood for sale split and stacked adds attractive
WillieB Don't feel alone. We all have days such as this. Just keep in mind that it tends to make you appreciate the good days just a little bit more!!!
That's why I like my switch on the wall. Our house plans had a fireplace. I had it drawn out and made more closet space. Power goes out I fire up the diesel generator and sit back in comfort.
That would be surrender! I'm not ready for that.
I know, just venting a bit.
My son has been getting after it here. 5 cords cut, split and stacked for a 16 year old is getting it done. Stay with it Willie. Warm nights by the fire just ahead.
I miss the warmth of a stove. My last house I burned coal. Loved it. We are in the process of designing and building a house on 15 acres we bought last year. Wood stove is part of the design. I will bur wood more for the toasty warmth than for the oil savings. I feel your pain. There are just sometimes where you have to walk away and regroup. Good luck getting things fixed.
We broke ground in 1980. The latest super heat system was stored heat, electric. You got electricity to heat Magnusite 8 hours a day. Insulated cabinets were full of stone. they got hot overnight, fans blew heat out over the 24 hours. The system worked well if adequately sized. Then there was the asbestos panic! Projects were cancelled. Manufacturers either switched to non asbestos insulation, or dropped out of the US market. There was no logical reason to abandon the system, but the damage was done. Electric heat storage was tied to lung cancer. My reasons were economic. First, I couldn't afford the heater units, Then, I couldn't get parts for the dirt cheap units I was taking out. Next thing, the power company raised the Kilowatt cost for stored heat. Meanwhile, wood heat worked for us. Mrs. B has not yet been too warm. At 60, she never found a moment she wanted it less warm. With wood heat I never have a fire in the room I am in. Thus far, wood has been preferable to other fuels. Buying wood doesn't feel logical. I own hundreds of cords of low value trees. Harvesting them improves the sale value of logs. Not every tree in a forest should live. Removing cull trees devotes soil & sun to more productive trees.
Brand new tears: Today, the Case is down waiting for parts to arrive. Seth had a God forsaken derelict Jeep he hauled in. There are $200. in useful parts to salvage. I said "Not at home!" Mrs B would kill me if I let him drag that debris home. We can hide stuff at "the land" I drove the John Deere 410C 3 miles to unload. The day wasn't done, I had stuff to do there. I knocked down 10 dead pines left standing after a major windstorm & moved some steel treasures. The sun goes down early there, so about 5:00 I headed for home. Going down the long hill toward Otter Creek I noticed smoke from the stack. Easy downhill, smoke was not normal. Climbing from the bridge it lacked power. As soon as I hit Route 7 It was WEAK. I made it 1/10 mile before it quit. Seth & an extra son arrived with new filter. Swapped new fuel filter, bled the system, it had more power than it ever has. I made it 1/4 mile, it died! Every effort makes it powerful for two minutes. We towed it home, me starting it every few minutes, driving under its own power to keep the drivetrain lubricated. Eventually made it the three miles home. Anybody got any theories? Thought the fuel gauge might be wrong, filled the tank, new fuel filter, bled the air. It runs strong 1 or2 minutes, then dies. Plenty of engine oil, good pressure. It just behaves like it is running out of fuel despite a full tank, (was half at the onset). Today, after 2 hours use was the first symptom.
Willie, check the return line. I have had deeres shut down like that with a bad or plugged return.
From top of injectors to the tank?
Does yours direct return from injectors to tank, or does it return to pump then to tank?
Not sure, it takes a bucket loader to remove the *%$#@! hood. It is made of 3/8" plate steel. I got two more old tractors with loaders before I'm out of resources.
OK. Both times I ran into this, the return hose was coming apart inside and stopping the flow. Too much back pressure in the pump, and they shut down. Replaced the hoses and never another hiccup.
Willie B, I hear you on the junk vehicles. My sons think my property should be the Sanford & son garage!! The wife thinks NOT...the wife wins, unless they hide them, which she finds in the end, and they are soon gone.
Slime/ algae growth in the tank. New filter, it runs until it sucks enough debris up to plug it. Then it sets while you change filter, debris falls back into tank, it starts runs- runs great- and dies again as it plugs back up. Shine a light down in the tank and see if you see black / green things floating around. Mine would hang up in a "foot valve" that kept fuel primed on a detroit, but it could be in a banjo or other fitting that you are plugging up. Bacteria killer and a drain and cleaning of the fuel tank.
One OTHER possible, as is a Older Deere will have a Stanadyne pump, pull the return fitting on top of shut down cover, if packed with crap coming due for Injector Pump work.
My property here at home is two acres. Due to weird geography, 3/4 acres is dropped 10 feet lower than the house. A stone wall further obscures any unsightly stuff from the house. Only rarely does Mrs. B see it. I bought a Jeep several years ago. Nothing of value, but a rebuilt engine. I did not immediately salvage the engine & dispose of the rest. She rallied on that Jeep! Griped to me endlessly, and complained to anybody polite enough to listen. She told the story of the Jeep ruining her life numerous times. I gave in! I stripped the parts I wanted & disposed of the rest, I never mentioned it to her. A year later, she was still telling the story of the derelict Jeep destroying her happiness. I pointed out it had been gone a year, she hadn't noticed. How much suffering did you endure, if you didn't know it was gone for more than a year?
I didn't have a chance to work on it today, not likely tomorrow. It occurs to me it ran well until a given moment. I've owned it a few months. We replaced the filter, bled it. It ran great briefly. Something other than just a fouled filter. The old one poured out clean diesel until near empty, then black sludge. I'll look to the return line as sled dog suggests. I also wonder if the mechanical lift pump suddenly failed. My brain locks on to the ability to start, run powerfully for a minute, then gradually die.
A light in the black tank only shows me black fuel. I have no sense of whether it is OK or not. Fuel pouring out of the old filter was clean until it was almost empty, then it changed to black. Maybe 1/4 cup of black.
All the black in the fuel filter is a bad sign. How old is the fuel, have you ever biocided the tank? Honestly, if I suspect algae growth in a tank, I just pitch the fuel, clean the tank out and treat the tank hard with a biocide and all new fuel. New filters and the biocide and treating will take care of it. But you will likely need a filter or two, when it kills the algae it will send it through as residue and somewhat plug the filters, but the active algae will really plug filters and lines hard. I had a hard time with it in a couple cranes a few years back, I don't mess around with it anymore. At the first sign of it I treat the fuel hard, and I also do some preventative fuel treating- if/ when I remember to.
Same pump, I've fueled four other tractors years now. Bought this one in summer. Put 100 hours on it, never a hiccup. I've never heard of biocide, I'll look into it. Whatever this is, it came on suddenly. Fuel is never old, I've refilled the skid tank a couple times since I bought this tractor. No symptoms in other tractors.
I've had it happen in one crane and not others, all filled out of the same pump at my shop.
I stopped at a busy truckstop on I-85 and filled a backhoe with road fuel. You know that fuel didn't stay in the tanks long. It rained, so I left the tractor on the jobsite for a week. When I went back, it was full of algae. I like Startron. Drain the tank, change the filters, fill it up with fresh fuel with Startron in it. It kills the algae and dissolves it so it will go through the filters.
When I was talking about draining the tank willie, I meant the tank just on the truck that has the issues, not your bulk tank you fill the truck from. Just clarifying.
Many moons ago I worked in the shop at Consolidated Freightways,and every year we had a program where every tractor in the system was treated with biocide to kill the nasty little buggers in the tanks...not so much the algae but bacteria that lived in the tanks that would eat through the aluminum...it was nasty stuff but it killed everything.....
Speaking of Corn Flakes!! How long has it been they went out? Is a company running that old CF red and black logo called Contract Freighters around here I had to double take when first saw the CF
Old company names CF Corn Flakes Roadway Big R Garrett Motor Frt Green Barn PIE Pig Iron Express IML Is Maybe Loaded Cambell66 Camel humpers Were many others
The voices this week are many. Most say "Me first!!!" I'll find time this weekend to pull the hood off & go through the fuel system. I'd normally bleed at the injectors top of the engine. This tractor is a BIG deal to get the hood off. 2 feet from 65 MPH traffic on a 50 MPH highway is no place for major tear down. It was dusk & starting to rain. Any chance this is a symptom of air between the injector pump & injectors? It has plenty of power for a minute before it gradually slows to a stall.
Are the filters dry after it shuts down? You may have a fuel line breaking down internally and a flap of hose is blocking off supply.
If its down on the side of the road, I'd probably just get it pulled somewhere you can work on it. Fuel between injector pump and injectors is high pressure, if there's a leak there, fuel should be spurting out , not air sucking in. Fuel lines are possible, so is bad fuel. If you leave a injector line loose, you can see it spurt each time it fires. Fire it up and see if the spurting dies out, ie it slows and stops getting fuel. The fuel filter fuel level like paul mentions is another clue. Honestly you're kind of grasping at straws right now, and I don't have any idea what your problem is, I tend to throw solutions at something until it runs right. If you really want to know if its a fuel delivery issue and it always dies in one minute - Eliminate the fuel lines and tank, and run it off a 5 gallon bucket of good fuel. You'll at least narrow down your issues.
Got the hood off this evening. It drips fuel out of the lift pump whenever I turn the starter. I'm going to begin with a new lift pump, before I do anything else. I know the history of this tractor. 11 years ago it was bought by a stoned hippie with an inheritance. Said he bought a big property, thought he might need a backhoe. 9+ years later, he hadn't thought of a reason to use it. I trucked it home for a builder, thought he would do his own excavating. He needed a new excavator with a warranty. He didn't own a grease gun. Not the sort who would make a success of owning a 29 year old hoe. It had a John Deere fuel filter. I'm sure the hippie didn't put a JD filter on. Even more certain the builder didn't. I believe the filter was 11 years old!
!!
before you buy a pump, blow air back to the tank. It would be a shame to buy a pump for a clogged line
Mr. Miller, the big Corn Flake bit the dust labor day 2002 ..I started in the shop when I was 23 yrs.old ,would have been retired now too with a full boat pension...worked in the shop for 8 1/2 years then I decided I wanted to be a big rigger and dragged wiggle wagons for about 7 1/2 years and made a lot of loot...they were paying us 52 cents a mile back then,my old man used to tell me..open your pockets and they'll fill em up...still see those wagons everywhere..there were 28,000 trailers in our pool when they went belly up...construction guys like them pups because they're easy to move around job sites...not so much when you hook up that 3rd wagon and drag them down the Ohio / Indiana turnpike in a snow storm...years later I worked in the shop for another little company you may know ,YRC freight the company they formed when they merged the Big R and Yellow Freight..that was a good move,quintupled my machinist pension..but alas **** poor shop manager and too many people walking around with their thumb in their butt when I was busting mine led me to seek greener pastures...can't go through life angry....I know this is off topic but it's nice to reminisce..
As it was dripping fuel out of the lift pump runs off the cam shaft, I replaced it. Symptoms didn't change. At length the only other line to the fuel tank is from the injector pump with a line from each injector teeing in. Found a glass check ball in the fitting at the injector pump gummed up. Don't know if it's algae, or diesel sludge. Fuel looked good. Second round of new filter. This John Deere is a nightmare to work on. Not a screw, bolt, or pipe fitting I can get on with a conventional tool.
The check ball fitting is to relieve excess fuel pressure in the Injector Pump, that locks closed it overpressures and the system STOPS delivering fuel, Engine Dies. Same problem as happens to 90% of farm tractors with a Stanadyne or light trucks with a Roosa Master pump.
Stanadyne it is. "They" are telling me it is gunk coming from the injector pump in its last days.
NOT necessarily, was the stuff fibrous and chunky or was it sticky goo? If was just Stuck with fuel detritus may not be a problem now, you did say had a ANTIQUE fuel filter on it. If was chunky I cleaned the one on my Allis 180, lasted three years before sent pump off and had rebuilt.
I just ran it a couple hours. Moving it in every direction to do a thorough greasing, moving a large pile of firewood, & bringing the grade up around a new deck with screened stone, not a hiccup. It ran as well as it did Monday!
Run it like you stole it If no hiccup then good to go If does die again and crud in the fitting Pump rebuild time Talk to Thepumpguy!!
If it's a roosa master pump, pull the top cover off and it's most likely filled w/ coffee ground looking crap..that's the old flex ring disintegrating..like DMiller said it's rebuild time...I'm sure Thepumpguy's ears are ringing..lol..
I hoped he'd chime in. Its a Stanadyne pump. I have no idea what the inside of these pumps look like,
Paging Mr. @thepumpguysc , they're asking for you
Quite a weekend, thank God it's over!!!! Zack (27 year old youngest son) arrived early Saturday "to split wood". Seth was here, disgusted that the four way wedge I had started was not acceptable to him. His way involved discarded bolt on cutting edge from a huge loader. I spent my Saturday helping them when they wanted, lots of anger that the Millermatic 252 decided to birds nest again & again. It seems that is my fault. Also, I repacked the extend a hoe hydraulic cylinder on the Case 580K, then putting the dipper stick back on the tractor. By 10:00AM today I was ready to try the extend a hoe. It pushed out, but wouldn't retract. Proved to be the pin missed the eye of the cylinder entirely. Deep inside the bowels of this greasy dinosaur, it wasn't easy to fix! Both sons gone, Mrs. B was the operator. Turns out, to her, STOP means keep your foot right where it is. We may remain married. That done, nothing left to go wrong but the hoses at top of dipper & boom. 2:00 PM to 5:00 PM i spent trying to configure them. Everything I tried, they tangled, and attempted to rip off. The Case 580K service manual does not have a ***!!!!!!! how do I prevent hose suicide at the top of the extend a hoe? Like every engineering failure ever, the manufacturer's tactic is to ignore the problem.
Have you tried bungee cording them loosely together so they support each other?
Isn't the empty bracket at the top of the extend a hoe supposed to have a clamp for the hoses?
I miss my wood stove, especially as I get older. A lot of work, but you can't beat the heat.
It is & earlier in the day it was installed. Somehow all four hoses were bending at an impossible angle right at the last fitting on the boom. On one side, a factory clamp was missing. I built a replacement today. It was bending the hard line at the end of the boom. I'm thinking of getting longer hoses so they could coil. What I have now is not working.
I've tried rope, zip ties, everything I can think of. One would think guiding them as a bundle would be best. It only causes one to get caught. It isn't helping that the two big ones have to cross. They hit the bucket cylinder opposite side from where they come up the boom 1/4" away from moving parts.
Newer Case extend a hoe show only two lines, the bucket cylinder. The hard lines at end of the boom turn & point toward the bucket. In any position, the flex lines are in an S curve. I can't do that, but maybe a longer flex line?
This one shows a extended plate to move them even further up and out of the way. You could maybe do similar with a steel rod and loop to give it a little flex? One on each side?
Yeah, I'm a little confused about your picture. Mine has about 44" of travel plus the bending at the joint top of boom. Maybe it'd work, but I'd need longer hoses. I have a theory about the machine in your picture; with so many levers, nobody ever figured out how to use it, it never dug a hole. I'm thinking longer hoses & an extension on the dipper extension. That has to be reaching up a foot higher than mine.
Probably worthless info, but the parts book show the lines to be 81 inches long.
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the one in your picture. It seems with dipper retracted, crowd extended the fittings at the ends of the hoses would almost touch.
My k phase 3 looks just like the one crane op pictured. I'll try to get a few pics in different positions
Looks to me, like the hoses have a twist in them. or they are backwards to each other's natural lay. In other words, with one end free, they should lay together, and bend together. Then connect the second end without twisting the hoses. Kinda like coiling electrical cords. Fight the natural lay and get tangles for your troubles.
Yeah, I tried loosening the fittings & rotating the hose. It didn't help.
I didn't realize how much hose and fitting angles made a difference until my latest hose replacement. I don't know if the guys that make the hoses aim for the same angles or not? @Willie B I feel for you! My extendahoe is hard plumbed near the top of the joint, where the hard line kind of guides the soft lines to run in a channel on my NH. I didn't realize the importance of both that hardline and a couple two inch wide tabs that funnels the soft lines into that channel until I was clearing brush at my buddy's and saw that I'd completely yanked those lines out of their natural spot and bent the hard line up pretty good. My issue turned out to be the hardline was held in place my a worm-drive hose clamp that had slid down so it wasn't holding the line tight to the stick arm. Once I got that figured out it was good to go, but it reminds me that I should probably check on it again. The design of yours looks completely different than mine though, so, ya know, this anecdote is useless...
I am the unhappy owner of two extend a hoe backhoes. I do not need two, don't want two. The John Deere was intended to be a fixer upper, but it is a better machine in some ways. This is one of those ways. This JD has an internal extension. It doesn't need much to organize hoses at the top of boom. This, the hoses come out sideways, have a hard 90 degree fitting & at least one welded loop to contain the hoses. Case has external extension. Solves the problem of how to build a thumb, but forces me to manage extreme variation with hoses up there. It isn't helping that hoses have to cross up there. I've considered switching left to right inside the boom, but there is NO room there! At the control valve is best place to switch, I'm terrified to ponder that job! Having four hoses, I already know the thumb hoses are too long further complicates my problem. Those I've seen that appear functional have two hoses. Magically those hoses flex evenly throughout their length. Mine flop, tangle & kink!
Ultimately, the John Deere did fail again. Removed sludge from the check ball again, it runs now. Local pavement plant owner gave me a name of a guy who rebuilds injector pumps. He seems confident he can fix it no big deal. Says it is a "collector ring" breaking down. He has ordered new parts, will call when they arrive.
There is a 'Flex Ring' internally that on earlier productions was composite fibrous material and disintegrated over time with flexing, heat and fuel bath.
Might have been flex ring. I've never seen the innards of one of these pumps. I'm sort of reluctant to dismantle, then have no source for parts.
Send it to Eric..... he ain’t afraid of them even though he should be HeavyEquipmentForums
I've been avoiding these things longer than you. I'm holding out for the local guy I only know he has satisfied customers.
If you don't get him. I can vouch for thepumpguysc
Actually, I've spoken to The Pump Guy SC. I may PM him. I have every confidence in him. I've been hoping he would see this thread & comment.
If you don't get him, PM me and I'll give you his phone numbers
Thank you.
Eric has no reason to fear the pump,just nuts and bolts man...I rebuilt the pump on my 580c ,but not before I read every available post on this forum, acquired an old roosa master rebuild manual and watched a 7 part youtube series on a guy rebuilding an old Oliver roosa pump...this guy had a claw hammer,an old wooden handled screw driver, and a crowbar on his bench..I figured if that cat could do it I could do it...just need a little mechanical aptitude and enough faith in your skills,and I have an awesome set of tools...btw I also rebuilt my shuttle and backhoe control valve,there's 200 bucks worth of o-rings in that thing and amazingly they still work too.. gotta have the manuals, they're priceless with any machine, and like Eric said "another feller put it together the first time, so can I... as far as sourcing parts..all that info was right here on this forum....do the research....then rip that crap apart man..
I let this thread die, don't know why. I built a long extension to support the hoses at the top of the boom & dipper. It worked well. I sold the Case 580K to an owner nearby. A year later I got a call "Something is wrong!" A snap ring had come loose one end of the pin securing upper end of the extend a hoe hydraulic cylinder. Would have been a simple fix, but the pin had come all the way out & the bottom half of the dipper was hanging by hoses. It had ripped hoses loose from the ties at top of dipper. I resolved that, back to work! The John Deere proved to be the flex ring in the Stanadyne Pump as several of you diagnosed. It blocked a check valve in the return line. I also sold the John Deere. Now have a Case 580 Super N. Nice tractor with all the bells & whistles. It has a hammer circuit on the dipper, but otherwise no auxiliary hydraulics. I still don't have a thumb. All strategies to add thumb hydraulics are challenging.