I'm still looking for a larger dozer, I'm wanting something in at least the 200 plus hp size and 50,000 lb or larger for hogging dirt and pulling a scraper. I'm not going to put that many hours on it so I'm wanting something older and lower priced, I'd like to have a semi u blade, power shift, fully hydraulic, no cable machines. I've looked at and considered a dresser td20g but can't find one that I wouldn't have a fortune in when I got it home and fixed, and parts are getting harder to find for them. I've been told that maybe I should consider a cat D8H but don't know anything about them. I've also looked at and considered a Komatsu D85, an older version but again know nothing about them. I'm thinking of parts availability both new and used for future repairs needed and something that's not computer controlled, old school simple is more my thinking. If anyone has any experience with these or other suggestions let me know both the good and the bad, thanks in advance
There are alot of cat D8H's around plenty of parts new and used,don't know anything about the other 2
I would consider a older td25g dresser,lots of power the kta 1150 engine is turned down by dresser at around 345hp makes it last a long time I have seen 35,000 hr out of them. The two speed planetary let's you make a turn with full power to both tracks,just by running one in hi and the other in low. You can also find them at a good price.
The dresser td25g, isn't that around that 90,000 lb dozer and a d8h is around the 65,000 lb machine, or is the info I've found wrong? The d8h is supposed to have the D342 engine in it, other than its an old big motor slow running and hard to start and will run forever and likes to suck fuel thats all I've heard about them, the people who suggested that dozer told me there were a lot of them made and a lot to chose from and also parts are and will always be available and they are pretty crude built and simple to work on, just large parts to handle but pretty straight forward and basic. I've never been around either of these machines or run them at all for that matter.
The td25g can spec out to 90,000lb depends if it has a ripper,blade size,and cab.the cat d342 was a slow to rev engine, compared to the kta 1150 ,that engine just flat out winds up fast and does not stop pulling! You will always find allot of cat parts and machines out there at a high price,I would not think twice on a good used td25g its a strong unit and worth the time it may take to locate good used parts, for the difference in price you could almost buy a parts machine compared to the cost of cat. It just depends how you look at it. they
I know of a good TD25, cab, SU, Ripper. Is supposed to be in real good condition. I think he wants about $35,000. How soon do you need one? I could get pictures and more info if your interested.
I honestly don't know the weights of the two machines, but the TD25 series is the Dresser/Dressta competitor for the D8 series machines.
I am ironman, that would be great if you could get some info on the machine, I'm not really needing it till this summer so I've got some time, shoot me a personal message with all the owners name and number. Does anyone know anything about a komatsu D85, I've located one of those thats supposed to be rebuilt about 2000 hours ago with a cab and a descent under carriage under it and the info I've found on that machine isn't much, I was thinking of going to look at it this week but since I'm not finding many out there to be had are they an odd duck or really popular and nobody wants to part with them? I've operated smaller komatsu's before some but never anything very big, the ones I did had excellent handling and the view from the cab was great, they shifted nicely and were an all around nice unit to run. I've talked to several that own smaller komatsu's and they are telling me they know nothing of a D85 but to give it a try and I wouldn't be sorry. I've also located a D135 with about the same story behind it and thats supposed to be the same general size as a D8 I'm told too, I've only seen one of those in my life and talked to the guy who ran it and he loved it, claimed it was the nicest dozer he'd ever operated any imput on the komatsu's would be appreciated.
A D7 will fit the bottom end of your specs and be reasonably transportable
We haven't ruled out anything, both the d85 and d135 were sold this weekend, back to square one looking again, a friend of mine who's a cat mechanic talked all morning to talk me out of the d8h, he was trying to persuade me into a d7g or d7h instead, again I know nothing about those machines [I'm not much of a cat man] I found one d85 but it has a U blade on it, don't think that'll do much good for me but I've never ran one of those either, just semi u's and straight or 6way blades, any imput on the U blade?
The full u works great for moving coal,wood chips and in a landfill. Semi u blades trap some material and still offer you the ability to maneuver and not upset the balance of the machine without a counter weight. They are also not as tall for better visibility.
Take a good look at parts availibility and knowledgeable mechanics before you buy. Cat usually wins that area hands down besides being a better machine : )
"ttazzman A D7 will fit the bottom end of your specs and be reasonably transportable " I was thinking the same thing, especially if you won't be putting on lots of hours. Any one of D7E, D7f, or D7g. You could probably find a pretty nice D7E for not a lot of money and you can get parts easily for any of them.
Anybody own or operate a D7E, F, or G that can give some first hand experience as to what to look for or avoid on those machines, nobody I know of runs them or has run them, the D5 or D6 pretty well is the market around me or at least the ones that are willing to talk to me anyhow. I can't argue with the statement of there are more of them out there and they will probably be around to offer service and parts and the likelyhood of locating used parts as well in the near future. My friends who are cat mechanics are twisting my arm pretty hard to get into the high drive machines but right off I'm not seeing where I can afford or justify a 50-90,000 dollar dozer and end up with the higher end of that amount in it when I'd get it fixed up and going, most of what I've seen in the lower end isn't going to run long before needing major dollars invested into it. As they say I've got to start somewhere and right now simple, practicle and dependable is what I'm after until I can at least figure out how much I'll use it and what the demand is for it in my area and market share. Does anyone know what weights and hp and engines are in those machines and what problems I need to be looking for, every machine has its downfalls and until I know what it is I'm kinda looking blindly. I got a full update and briefing of the pitfalls of the D8h and those machines but not much on the D7 lineup other than its far better than the older 8's and would be an improvement over any of those machines. Jeff112, I pretty much figured out that a U was pretty worthless for dirt, the one I called on they cut the top off so it was lower but I still couldn't see any real functional use in dirt for that blade at all, maybe thats why they can't sell that machine, didn't see any real advantage for the angle blade for what I'd be doing either, the one that you undo the pins and manually angle the blade and go back to work again, found a lot of those out there as well. Thanks for the imput guys, it really helps. Are machines really selling as good as the salesmen are telling me or is it a bunch of hype, seems every machine I'd like or would fit are sold yesterday or theres someone ahead of me looking at it and they'll get back to me, and then its sold, I thought times were tough and things not moving.
D7E series were an excellent machine. Earlier ones were 160 HP and later went to 180. These were the last of the D7's with the 339 four cylinder engine. Excellent engine with slow speed, long stroke, big bore and lots of torque. D7E's came in power shift or direct drive. If you want a power shift look for a 48A series. They also came with both hydraulic or cable for the blade. Vast majority came with an S series blade. They also make an excellent scraper tractor pulling a Cat No. 70 pan. The D7F series were a short lived thing with as I recall only about 5,000 of them being built. Cat seemed to have trouble in the transition from the big four cylinder 339 to the 3306 six cylinder in the F series. The D7G series is in my opinion the best D7 series ever built. All the problems in the F series were fixed when the G's came out. Same again, they both came with power shift or direct drive and cable or hydraulic for the blade. I would go for a power shift and hydraulic. Run a D7E and a G both here. D7E set up to pull pan. I just wish it was a bit faster. Not sure what you want to spend but the D7G's are holding their value. Biggest problem you will find with most D7E's is that the undercarriage will be getting weak. As far as D8's go you have your choice between the D8H and K series. The H's were built for quite some time and progressed up to 275 HP. D8K's had 300 HP. Both series have Cat 342 six cylinder engine, the K's were the last to use this engine. They were maxed out at the 300 HP level. Running both here and pull pans with them too. Again I would go for power shift and hydraulic. That puts you in a 46A series for the H series. In a K you will be looking for a 77V series. Heck of a scraper tractor here too when pulling a Cat No. 80 Pan. Same problem here, lots of them are going to be getting weak on the undercarriage. Have had or have all of the above series machines here and have love them all dearly. Find the right one, treat it right and it will do everything you ask of it day in and day out. The above are our bread and butter here. Blades are off my machines probably 90% of the time and pans hooked up. When going gets tough will put D7 on as a push Cat to speed up loading time and keep the cuts cleaned up. I would not look at anything else but Cat for your application. As far as D8's go you have your ch
No matter what machine you get, unercarriage is one of the most expensive things to fix so look it over good. Transmissions and final drives are fairly expensive too. Engine repairs are usually less expensive. If you go look at a machine it's best to take someone along that's familiar with it...they'll know what to look at. I know when I bought my D6 I didn't know too much and missed a lot of things that I found later. (machinery traders are pretty good at hiding things) As they say, education isn't free...pay top dollar for a nice machine or buy a lower priced one and spend money on repairs. (I did the latter and have learned a lot, but I paid for it) just my 2¢
All i know about is a D7H......it was over 200hp weighed about 55k was the largest dozer we could transport with ease didnt have a ounce of trouble out of it......i have no clue what they are going for now price wise.....for us it was a money maker in light commercial construction
I agree with Greg go cat and dont look back. I am partial to the 8k my self they will have the brakes hooked to the steering clutches so you dont have to use the brake pedals. I know were there is one for sale here in southern IA the uc is a little week but it has the grace track 90gpm pump and valve on it for a scraper the rest of the machine is pretty solid he wants 30k for it but I have been kicking around buying it for myself.
Thanks for the info guys, been on the phone asking a ton more questions, the consensus around me is to not look for a D7E model with the four cylinder but rather the F or G model instead. What are the problems with the F model that the G took care of? one guy told me that he thought the G had wet clutches instead of dry but thats all he knew about, he thought they were basically the same machine with a 3306 engine in both and he thought a F was a good machine to look at for the money, a G would be more but when I was looking for a G if I stumbled across a good F to not pass it up I've been pricing undercarriages for all makes and models of machines, just did an undercarriage on one of my other dozers last week, yea I know all about how expensive they are. I've also got a new undercarriage laying on a pallet for my excavator thats needs some time to put on yet before spring, so thats two new undercarriages in a year I've bought so far, two more for next winter on two more machines, I can't complain thought at least I wore them out myself. What other differences are there between the F model and the G model dozer? Are the power shift transmissions different, final drives, undercarriages, are some things heavier and if so what? My mechanics didn't really remember for sure other than only buy one with a 3306 engine, its been a few years since they've even seen a F or a G model they really didn't remember specifics anymore, [what makes that worse is they are the same age as me] I've got several mechanics who are willing to go look at some machines with me but first I've got to find something worth looking at thats not already sold.
The D7f initially used the same transmission design as the D7e (low speed/high torque), but had problems because of the change to the 3306 engine (high speed/low torque) Seem to remember the problem was fixed at around 5000 serial no....Cat can probably tell you where the break was. If trans updates were done on the earlier ones they should be ok too. All the D7's E,F, & G should have wet steering clutches.
Thanks D6c10k, I'll do some checking, at least that way I've got something to look for that I know needs investigating. I've got to go talk to several more guys today about dozers for sale, not really close but close enough, that and I'll be on the phone asking a lot more questions. Anyone know about rippers and the hydrualics to pull a scraper, did they just use the ripper valve and take the ripper off to pull a scraper? If theres not one on it what does it take to install one later on as I need that, both a ripper and a scraper vavle, right now I'm not needing either but planning for the future [next year] I know for sure I'll pull a scraper, not sure on the ripper yet. Did they make the 7's in anything but straight blades and those angle blades on the F or G model? Nothing advertised for sale has anything but those two configurations, I'm thinking more of a semi u myself but right now I'd take a straight blade, I've got one of those now on my smaller 120hp dozer and it does just fine for what I do.
If you are going to pull a pan you will need three circuits to do it right. One for the lift on the pan, second for the ejector and third for the front end gate. To me best is to mount triple valve pack and use hydraulics off of tractor. The Grace Track "wet kit" is nice but they don't build them any more so I have been told. Grace also used electric over oil with the valves mounted on the rear and control switches by operator seat. Using tractor hydraulics with triple valve pack by operator seat is all mechanical. "operator hand over oil" so to speak. I don't know if I would really want to go through the ripper an pan on same tractor. Bunch of muscle work and time to switch back and forth.
Would agree with Greg 100%. If you find a D7E, make sure it is a 180 hp version, I think these started around serial no. 6500 or so. Still running one here that my dad bought brand new in 1966, 48A powershift. For farm use, it is a good machine and it will be a long time before it is worn out completely. Hard to start in the winter due to the sheer mass of the 4 cyl engine, I suppose. Can move it very easily on a two axle lowboy. I don't think we could use it for time-critical commercial contracts, because a machine of this age will have the usual breakdowns, but you can fix it yourself and Cat has the parts. Family farm also has a D8K 77V. With the spacer plate engines these things will last a long time, too, and move half again or maybe more the dirt that the D7E will. But the two axle lowboy won't move it legally, although around the farm it can be done. At the end of the day you know you've been on either one. These young guys on the high track fingertip machines aren't nearly as tough as us guys who grew up running REAL Cats. Not that I wouldn't love to have a new D6R or T if I had a job for it.
Another great thing about D7E's and G's as well as D8H's and K's. No computer to loose its mind. That is why I have them here. Can work on them right here with no Cat service techs with umteen thousand dollars worth of computer and software. Also like the undercarriage arrangement for pulling pans. You will need a three axle lowboy to move a D8H or K. Seems to me they go about 65,000 pounds with blade on. D7E about 44,000 with blade. Not sure on the D7G weight but it seems to me they are a bit heavier than the D7E's.
If my memory is still ok the main difference between the F's & G's was the interconnected steering & braking & the pilot hydraulic controls, better cab, both where good reliable machines
AS your in Iowa you will want a straight dozer. I am by Mason City and have a D7e and D814a Pull a Cable scraper. I like them both. The 7 will push a lot in a day. Razz.
We pull a 435F Catepillar scraper with a TD-20G widetrack dozer, which has a straight blade on it. It fills the scraper pretty easily in 4th or 3rd gear. We use to pull the Cat scraper with our TD-20E, and that filled it well also. We put a 3rd valve inline on a TD-20G recently so we could also use it to pull the scraper, but haven't tried it yet. It has a semi-u blade.
Hard to beat a d6r
if your looking for a 8k we have a 77v with good uc in overall nice shape were gonna sell.
I have already bought a larger dozer this summer but I haven't ruled out buying another one, I've been leaning more towards a komatsu D85 or 135 though, but tell me about your d8 and what your wanting for it.
What did you end up getting Randy and can you post pictures
I looked at about 100 plus machines and finally decided on a komatsu D68 with a cab and semi u blade with about 6000 actual hours on it, I'm not sure I'm smart enough to post a picture of it though, as of yet I've never made it work, maybe I'll try to get my kids to help post some photos for you guys. Its rated at about 180hp but might be bumped up slightly more, I"m not sure. I kinda wanted a D85 but all the ones we looked at needed major work done to them and were overpriced for what they were, also looked at plenty of D7's but again either needed major work or were about 50% over priced. I've put on over 100 hours on it since I've bought it and so far am very happy with it and all my operators like it as well so all in all I'd call it a successful purchase. We looked at plenty of D6's as well but were not impressed with the visibility from the seat on the high track models.
ever considered a D8K?
I think the komatsu are fine machines. I like mine. Am looking at a dresser 20 or bigger komatsu this fall though.
I've looked at and given a cat d8's a lot of thought but the older ones had those slow speed engines in them and my mechanics didn't recommend them for the cost of repairs and parts, thats why I was more into the komatsu lineup, they ran basically cummins engines in their machines. Illinoisboy what model komatsu do you have now and what model are you looking for? I've looked at plenty of those size machines and can maybe save you running and looking at a lot of junk or trying to figure out whats wrong with the ones that are for sale.
If you need Komatsu help hit me up I know'm well. The bad thing about the 135 is the parts availability. The D85 is a great machine too. Also if you got the cash or credit the new electric D7 is very nice between 400 and 500k!! ouch!!
I had a cat d8h,and a d8k, there both nice machines they both had towing winches on them and made them pretty well balanced. I have 2 155a komatsus now they are both older machines ,and i have a parts machine also , they push pretty close to an old d9g but are a bit lighter. the biggest problems with them is the older hydraulic hoses,pita getting hoses made up for them, and they do like their fuel!!!!! Don
It is NEVER a good time to have to wait and look around for parts as your machine only breaks when you are using it, The TD25 is an alright machine and the Cummins KTA is a good engine although even derated at 1,150 cubic inches it drinks its fair share of fuel too. The fastest way in the history of mankind to ever get parts is to buy a Cat. And even the older d8h's have an over abundance of parts available too ( new and used ) Don't have your machine down when you need it because non of the people you have called can find you a part yet
Nothing is worth the EXTRA time it takes to locate parts, they only break down when they are being used , remember when buyin a spare part machine the parts on your spare that are no good are usually the parts you will need on your operational one. Go Cat it;s the only logical choice and it ain't 1969 anymore and Cat parts are cheaper as well as being the fastest way on the planet to get parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpERKSn8NcY