So I already know that I messed up. I had to replace the injection pump and I lost my timing marks when doing so I know I need to get the timing cover off get all of my timing marks back to top dead center and then put back together. here is the issue I’m running into. I pulled all the bolts off of the timing cover along with all the hoses, drained all the fluids pulled off all my belts and pulleys. I started prying on the timing cover and it seems like there is something still holding it and I don’t wanna put a whole heck of a lot of pressure on that cover and possibly crack it or break it. Is there any bolts down towards the bottom of the timing cover that would still be holding it on? I can’t find anything online to pinpoint exactly all the bolts that need to be taken off. cat 299d3 sn#DY904968
You will be needing the entire R&R procedure. At least you posted the serial number. That is a pretty complex job that if done wrong will never run right again. Maybe one of our resident information specialists will post the procedure. What made you pull the injection pump to start with? I am asking as they will if I don't. Best to follow the advice given or you will be deep into it. Simon C
Broken spring
Others had the same problem before you. Someone will chime in with some info. Simon C
If its anything loke the 259d-279d its not horrible to find the marks. Nige will set you up with the information. To see the marks is kinda difficult tho
I was thinking. And pardon my ignorance on this. But if my cam,crank,and oil pump gears were never moved or turned independently from each other then I was thinking I can just line up all the timing marks then install the injection pump.
It’s not as simple as that, or at least it may not be. For a start your engine is not guaranteed to have any timing marks at all in the front gear train. Secondly the pump has to be set and locked in a certain position before installation, because despite the fact your engine is a common rail system the HP pump is a 4-cylinder reciprocating pump and the output pressure pulses of the pump have to be perfectly timed to the electronic firing of the injectors. Fail to do all this and the engine will not start. We have been here before…….
preach to me Nige. Give it to me. The good the bad and the ugly
Actually I'm lazy. Read this thread. The OP had what sounds like exactly the same problam as you. The pump R&I plus timing procedures are all in there as attachments, or at least I think they are. If you have any more questions after reading it then please ask. HeavyEquipmentForums
I understand. I did read through that post today. I downloaded the info you put on there. But I had the question of the timing cover. Would or is there more bolts holding it on that I can’t see. I was prying on it and it seems stuck on the bottom. I don’t want to crack the cover.
It’s a old fashion night tonight after the week I’ve had
There is no procedure for removing the front cover as far as I can see. The best I can do is upload the parts diagram for it. At least you can check the number of bolts you removed versus what the illustration shows. Hopefully @ozarkag will chime in. He has plenty of practical experience on these engines. I also note that the thread I linked does not have either the procedure to set the timing or for finding TDC on #4 cylinder which is the 1st step in the process. They are also attached.
Thank you for the help
Nige Do you know how many volts I should have off of the solenoid on top of the injection pump?
That's the suction valve. The voltage on it varies according to fuel demand and is controlled by the Engine ECM.
So would it be normal for only 4.4v? To me that seems a little low. But I have really no clue. Reason I ask is because I got all my timing lined up then installed my pump put all together and I still have no fuel to my rail
How did you set the rotational position of the pump shaft if the engine was not timed when the pump was removed.?
When I lost my timing mark on my pump when I pulled it out. I pulled off the idler gear. Opened up timing cover. I have timing marks on all my gears. I rotated the gears about 50 rounds until all my marks lined up. Then I installed my idler gear to the timing marks. Then reinstalled my pump lined up those timing marks.
That was my point. Unless the engine has already been set up to the timing marks before the pump is removed the pump could be anywhere. The pump shaft has to be in a certain rotational position, as I mentioned on the linked thread a new pump comes set in the correct position (I think locked with a bolt but not 100% sure) so that there is no possibility of it turning before it is installed. Look at it this way, even with the rest of the engine set to the timing marks, if the pump has to be within say 1 degree rotationally for it to function correctly there are 360 different options for pump position and you have no way of knowing which one is correct.
I’m sorry but I’m not following you. There is a set pin on the shaft and I can turn the injection pump by hand. The gears can only go on the shaft one way. So I turned the pump shaft to where it needed to be . Then put on the gear so it lined up to the timing marks on my idler gear.
I never seen a bolt that holds the shaft in one position on the pump
I was under the impression the pump gear was just on a taper with no key to locate it.? If that is not the case do you have photos showing the parts and the setup.? Did you set #4 cylinder TDC using the timing marks on the flywheel.? Unfortunately @ozarkag does not seem to have been around for almost 2 months now.
All I have is the photo of my old pump so you could see that it has a pin on it
Picture of the pump gear
Yes, I set my timing marks on my flywheel made sure that they lined up with my cam, and then I set my idler gear to my other timing mark on the other side of my flywheel and then I lined up my pump gear timing mark to my idler gear timing mark
I did not physically pull off the valve cover to make sure that number four was on top dead center that’s why I turned the flywheel probably about 50 turns in ordered to get all three of the timing marks lined up
OK, the photos clear that up. There is only one way the gear will go on the pump. You say "old pump". I thought you fixed a broken spring inside the HP fuel pump, or did you buy a replacement pump.? If you did buy a replacement was it genuine Kubota/Cat or aftermarket.? Another question. When you turn on the key ON does the electric fuel priming pump run for about 30 seconds then turn off.?
It is an aftermarket one. I did not replace the spring on the old pump because when the spring shattered, I didn’t want any of the metal strap going through my fuel lines and into my Injectors, and then I have a bigger problem. It is a Kubota aftermarket when I do turn on the key. My Lyft pump does turn on and I am getting fuel to my injection pump. I did try to turn it over quite a few times with still no firing on it. I disconnected my high-pressure fuel line to see if I’m even getting fuel up to my rail no fuel at all. I did try to use some ether to try to get it to run for longer. Hopefully that it will get any air pockets out. Tractor started up with ether, but would not stay running due to no fuel in the rail.
I’m thinking about trying to just rebuild my old pump and clean it all completely out and then installed that with the new spring and solenoid. That’s why I was wondering if you or anybody else knows what voltage I’m supposed to get on that solenoid because 4v just seems like it’s nothing to be able to compress that spring
I do appreciate your time on this subject Nige
Unfortunately that puts a question mark over it straight away. Your confidence is appreciated but there's no substitute for having been there done that on one of these engines and that rules me out.
He's still around. .. Not sure why I didn't see my username mention. I think you did everything right. But, without verifying TDC you can be one full rotation off on the pump. It's been a while since I fought one so I could be wrong.
You will not be able to measure voltage there without an oscilloscope. It is a precisely timed signal that opens or closes the solenoid in exact time to the pump piston stroke. This is why timing is so important.
Does the part number match exactly? There are will fit pumps from Kubota to cat that the only difference is the timing set in the gear. .. .
@ozarkag - Would it be worth pulling off the valve cover to double check that when the timing mark on the flywheel housing is lined up with the one on the flywheel that #4 cylinder is actually at TDC on the compression stroke and not 360 degrees out.?
Yes I believe so. We will typically not do the "50 turns" timing line up. Better to start at the bottom, with the crank. Verify correct TDC and the timing mark should be pointing towards the next gear. Remove an idler to allow rotating, align the marks and install idler. Next mark should again point towards next gear. So on and time pump last. Double check that all single marks are between double marks, even 1 tooth off can prevent pump pressure.
And that to me implies that the inspection cover on the flywheel housing and the valve cover both have to be removed to set TDC on the compression stroke of the correct cylinder as a first step before even looking at the timing gears.
Ok I redid my timing and still have no fuel from injection pump to rail. Anyone have some ideas. It will start with starting fluid.
All I see in those photos is the front gear group. Are there any photos of the timing marks on the flywheel and flywheel housing.? I hope that you timed that end of the engine first before moving to the front.