for a 2000 623F ser # 5EW 324 straight across. It has near new big rubber, new chains, sprockets and rollers 3755 hours backed up by Cat Simms report. Made a few loads today with it and it seems good to go. The owner paid $180K for it in Aug. I think it's goodby D8's and maybe look for a 6R to replace the Dozer/ ripper. What ya think?
I would have to ask which one will make you more money and how busy are you keeping the dozers? If they are just sitting around collection rust and you could be bouncing around in a scraper making money then get the scraper. If I'm not mistaken you mention somewhere that both the dozers were paid for and cost little to nothing to let them sit. It really depends on what machines you need in your area to stay busy.
I agree with the Dirtman, Pete. What ya going to do for a bigger Cat when you need it, or do you already have another one.........? I forget. Anyway, a 23F is a purty nice rig, not much left to go wrong structurally or mechanically. Biggest problems are probably electrical these days. Are those bias-ply General's? Well, at two fer one, that's 90 grand apiece, about what the 8K sold for new when they came out -- close anyway.
Hell, I don't know what to do, this year has been so bad none of my equipment made much $$ I have some work on a water treatment plant coming up where 80K yards goes 2000 ft to stockplie, a 2nd 623 will come in handy there. $90 K each on the D8's is hard to pass up, one is a 84' the other 81' not much future in unregulated engines here in Ca. The scraper is at my shop, I can't find much wrong with it, the owner bought it to speculate on but the scraper market is down so he offered the trade thinking he can sell the D8's easier. It's not the time to make a move but the offer is now, We'll see. Tires are Yokohama.
You might could get some grant money from the state to upgrade the engines, but, with used D8K's selling at Ritchies for 37 to 59 grand each, I think one newer 623 in hand is better than two older D8's in the bush. Ritchies is getting between 160 to 180,000 bucks for 2000 623F's. I guess I don't know how complient the F engine is with the latest tier emissions. Does it meet spec, or will it have to be upgraded too? Yokohoho tires. Always stayed away from them but don't know much about them either because was never around them. Hardly ever saw any.....
My limited experience with Yokomahas was they wore well but rode like ****. They replaced the Firestones on a 627 I ran with new Yoko's, it was a step in the wrong direction, at least as far as comfort was concerned. Looks like a nice scraper though.
A 2000 3406 is a tier one from the factory my other 623 has a tier 3 C-15 in it so together they set me pretty good with the airboard. The two things that concern me about getting rid of both D8's is the ripping and getting one of those terds unstuck especially if loaded. Scraper is out of Schwabs fleet from down your way Surfer, it was in the Sacramento area during the boom and sold at Richie Bros along with several earlier F's last Aug. when they went out of biz. I believe it to be well cared for, it was serviced by Holt Bros since 06' according to the sticker on the door. The bowl and floors have just been re skinned, brakes are good, rams are dry, no oil leaks to speak of. Gotta sleep on it a couple nights
Replacing the D8K's Hi, DPete. If you haven't already done so, see if you can arrange to take a D6R or T for a workout in some hard ground. I ran both an 'H' and an 'R' in some hard ground - not real rock but a little bit of weathered shale - and I was impressed with both of the little jiggers, especially the 'R'. They won't rip as deep as your current D8K ripping tractor but I think that, on a pound-for-pound basis, they would be at least as productive and possibly cheaper to run. There would be a question over whether the D6 would keep up with ripping for two 623's in hard going but I thought those curved shanks did a surprisingly good job. I don't think you strike a lot of serious rock around your way, do you? Mostly hard pan? The 623 will do better on longer hauls than the D8K and scraper but, as has be mentioned before, you do OWN the D8K's so they virtually only cost you the actual operating costs to run and that open-bowl pan will handle some fairly rough material. How-wevver, in today's work climate, where else are you ever going to be offered $90K apiece for them. Sleep well on the proposition, my friend.
Since you have 2 dozers,might consider just trading one of them and keep one( the best one ).Both looked good to me and would be hard to replace the way they looked ,if you would every have too later. If things pick up Get a D6R later to go along with your other equipment.I'm sure you could trade the other dozer then on it. Yeah you will have to come up with some cash now tho,but you would also have to do that for the D6R to replace the dozers. Good luck with you decision.Don't you just love making them.i'm thinking i have made to many bad ones this year,floods this spring and now the rains are moving back in this fall and winter is on the way.:usa
What to do ? Hello DPete, Looks like the Clean Air Regs are driving lot of business decisions these days. Seems like the 2 D8K's are more usefull, but then again, how long can you use the D8K's in Calif. ? Getting a good value for an outdated machine makes sense. If the scraper doesn't work out, it would be easier to sell off later, in a regulated market. Good Luck , Northart
90k each is tough to pass up for those d8's...
Here is a rundown on D8 sales for you Pete in the last six months. Prices can vary a lot, but if you had to pick up a big Cat after trading in the two K's, this is about what you might have to shell out. I tried to stay with Cats in or near California. ===================================================== 2005 CATERPILLAR D8T CRAWLER TRACTOR CAT00D8TLKPZ00000 Mar - 2008 USA-CA 355,000 USD SU/dozer w/tilt, A/C cab, diff steer, 4 bbl MS ripper 2004 CATERPILLAR D8R II CRAWLER TRACTOR 6YZ01000 Feb - 2008 USA-CA 300,000 USD SU/dozer w/tilt, A/C cab, diff steer, 4 bbl MS ripper 2001 CATERPILLAR D8R SERIES II CRAWLER TRACTOR CAT00D8RJ6YZ00000 Aug - 2008 USA-CT 210,000 USD SU/dozer w/tilt, A/C cab, aux hyd 2000 CATERPILLAR D8R CRAWLER TRACTOR 7XM04000 Jun - 2008 USA-IL 175,000 USD SU/dozer w/tilt, cab, 4 bbl MS ripper w/one shank 1993 CATERPILLAR D8N CRAWLER TRACTOR 5TJ00000 May - 2008 USA-CA 110,000 USD SU/dozer w/tilt, A/C cab, diff steer, 4 bbl MS ripper 1986 CATERPILLAR D8N CRAWLER TRACTOR 9TC00000 Oct - 2008 USA-NV 77,500 USD SU dozer w/tilt, slopeboard ready, A/C cab, diff steer, 4 bbl MS ripper 1986 CATERPILLAR D8L CRAWLER TRACTOR 53Y04000 Jun - 2008 USA-AZ 80,000 USD S/dozer w/tilt, A/C cab, 4 bbl MS ripper
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input. Scrapers have always been my bread and butter the rest of the equipment is really to support the scrapers. The way the work and economy is I don't want to put out any cash. I can rent a dozer as needed for now though I prefer to have my own, renting is an option. I still haven't decided but am leaning toward the trade there are +'s and -'s on both sides. I have alot of respect for those K's yet I don't feel married to them. Two years ago when everything was still hoppin a late F with low hours like that would have probably fetched $250K, that was then this is now, I still don't see how I could go wrong. Nother sleepless night ahead, will let you know when I decide. Thanks again
Ive been thinking about this one myself. As you say, + and -s on both sides. I honestly dont think its a deal you can turn down. I would go for it. As stated, you can rent/lease. You wont be out cash, but you will be out a little higher profit margin with a rental machine. Then again, you dont have to worry about down time, and service. If you get in a position to grab a good used dozer, or maybe even a new one, do it. The way the economy is, no one is buying equipment. Its been that way for some time here in Mi. In fact Michigan Cat cannot give a dozer away. So if you find a way to buy a dozer, im sure the dealer would give you a hell of a deal. Like you say, those ks are good tractors, but with your air regs, they are not going to help you in the pocket book. As for getting stuck at having a 6 to get you out. I dont think you work bad ground. :beatsme Ive been on jobs running 627s. Our push cat was nothing bigger than a 6R. Sure, the 27s have another engine, but they are heavier too. The 6 had no problem getting things unstuck. Something to consider is carrying a cable with so if need be your other 623 can give a hand if things get that bad.
a D6 will rip just fine. and keep up with 23's no problem
D8k Hi DPete, Just seen a Cat D8K up here, for sale, $45,000, was on the 4 sale sign, looked like a real nice clean dozer. The guy has always had, real, nice, decent equipment , not junk . So if your getting double that ? Go for it ! Then again I'm not in your shoes, Best of Luck, Northart
D6 Ripping Hi, DPete. It may be worth bearing in mind that the D6R and D6T are about the equivalents of the D7E and D7F in both weight and horsepower. For mine, they are much more a contractor's machine these days than a farm tractor. If you ever need to rent one or have a chance to buy one, it might help to have these thoughts in mind.
If a guy could get a 10 -14 yard laser scraper with a dolly I bet you could hook it to the ripper on a 6R and have a nice little finish machine to top off banks or pond bottoms or any larger grades. Wonder if anybody has done that? I'd get more use out of a 6 that way
I have a ripper valve on my D6H,no ripper.I bought a hydraulic valve to add to where the ripper lines come out.It is a two function valve to run my 14/16 yard Ashland hydraulic scraper(has dolly wheels). I use the ripper level in cab and it has a thumb switch to devert old to dump with.You would have to fix hitch on the ripper bar to pull it ,but sure that could be done.Then might have to figure out how to tee into the ripper hydraulic. If get time might try posting pictues.Busy now paperwork.Rained.Good luck:usa
Go for the trade if the scrapers are your bread and butter. Get rid of the D8's and downsize to a D6.
If you don't take the trade now, you will kick yourself as there becomes less and less work available for the older machines here in CA. In addition to CARB rules, many new building permits are going to require no unregulated engines on the job. Value on those K's is dropping by the minute. The scraper is new enough to pass, and as you already know, it can be upgraded, wherer the K can't. You would be hard pressed to get 35 to 40K for the D-8K's, so in effect, you would be getting a 3500 hr 623F for 80K. I wish I had that option. I had 3 D-8K's and 1 D-8H, and they were great tractors for many years, but they had to go, and I never looked back.
I verbaly made the trade, haven't done the paperwork yet
Paperwork Hi, DPete. Many years ago, I saw a cartoon depicting a guy sitting on the toilet with a SERIOUS over-run on the toilet roll, to the point where he is surrounded by reams and reams of toilet paper. The caption read: "The job's not finished 'til the paperwork's done." You probably will, from time to time. miss that rumbling, low-revving, sheer grunt of those D8K's but, in the climate control frenzy that is California today, they are dinosaurs and would soon become a liability. I think you have made the right choice, although you may now either have a largish drawn scraper for sale or you may need a D8N or R to pull it. Hope it all works for you, M8.
dpete, I would have done the same in your shoes, let us know how it goes.
Eh, it's a bitter sweet deal, those 8's got me to where I am ( which isn"t that great ) like most have said it's the right thing to do. Thanks for the moral support. Deas, the pull scraper goes with the deal. My crystal ball shows a D6R when or if work picks up maybe a wide laser scraper for it to do double duty and help with finish work. All that takes $$$$
Deal or No Deal ? Hi DPete, Business is a tough world , especially as I see Californy. Looks like to me, that for some to survive, it's better to go with the flow, than try to swim upstream in a sewer full of regulations. Here in Alaska , the orca's just got listed as an endangered species. So our "ADN local rag" , says NOISE is a big risk factor , from a FUTURE Bridge to be built ! So Future Noise is now a consideration , that had nothing to do with the cause for listing. LOL What a bunch of idiots ! It's a changing business climate for sure ! Best of Luck in your Business !
Been fixin a few little things, I did get a clean used engine enclosure, they help keep the kids out and look better.