From my thread looking for a thumb for my 320B. One option was to look for another machine with aux hyd and a thumb on it. CAT is the closest here (30 miles) for parts, etc. What other brands should I look at? I've ran across a couple of JCB JC220 hoes that are priced decent. Is there a reason why? Are there known problems? Is service and support an issue? I've read back 17 pages in this forum and haven't seen a JCB mentioned.
JCB, Case, and Linkbelt are all the same machine. They are all manufactured by sumitomo with only minor variances between the three.
Was true for time but JCB has been building their own excavator for a while now.
In 1978, the Loadall machine was introduced. The next year, JCB started its operation in India. In 1991, the firm entered a joint venture with Sumitomo of Japan to produce excavators, which ended in 1998.[8] Two years later, a JCB factory was completed in Pooler near Savannah, Georgia in the USA, and the next year a factory was opened in Brazil.
I've liked what I've seen by both the komatsu crowd & the hiatachi / deere stuff. An old employer likes daewoo / doosan stuff, me I dunno, it moved dirt all day long though.
You hear a lot of complaint on the price of parts. Esp. Komatsu. lately. I don't have any blind brand loyalty, I'm willing to look at any. Main thing for me is ability to find parts and some knowledge nearby (less than an hour away)
I have 17 hoe's 16 CAT and 1 Komatsu. 6 years ago I also had two KOM PC450, in the 5 years that I had them except for PM services they cost me a total of $4977.14. (Final drive seal failed and chewed it up) I put over 10k hrs on them without any problems, my current KOM is a PC210, which I have spent nothing on except PM service and have had that for 7 years and 8k hours. I have 6 CAT 345 all with about 9-10K hours on them and the day cannot come soon enough when I can wish them bye bye. CAT are engineering their products to fail and using the end user as their R&D. I will eventually replace all of my CAT fleet with Komatsu.
Steed: This is what I'm looking for, real world experience with different brands.
I currently have (2) Cat machines. A backhoe (416C) with over 12,000 hours, and an excavator (315C) with just under 5,000 hours. Both have been great machines and I still will lean towards Cat when I decide to replace any of the (5) machines I currently own. My experience wit hKomatsu is a rental WA200 loader (did not like it very much-the hydrostat trans) and running an employers PC200 back in the early 90s (machine was bought at auction and had about 3,000 hours-still a good trackhoe). That being said, Komatsu would also be in serious consideration. The downside of the Komatsu is that there is not a real dealership in my town (nearest is 3 hours away, different state and dealership than my region[dealer for my region is acutually 4 hours away] while Cat, Deere, and Case are in town). I have recently talked with a competitor who bought a new PC200 about (2) years ago. They bought it to replace a Deere 270. They feel as though the smaller 200 out performs the 270 in every way, including lift capacity. That's pretty impressive. So far they have had zero problems. This company has (4) full sized excavators. Another company in my area has 8+ excavators and loaders as well. They own Komatsu and Cat in various sizes ranging from 20 to 30 metric ton (200/320 to 300/330). The loaders are 938 to 950/ WA 320 to 380 size. Obviously this is a company that has direct experience, head to head, with both brands. While they do like the Cats the thing that stuck with me is that they said they just don't have to get parts or service for the Komatsus. It seems to mirror Steed's comments and it certainly is a compelling argument for Komatsu. I still believe that service is very important. The fact that, in my town, Cat has a full blown dealership, and that Komatsu has a service truck, a yard, and a double-wide trailer, further pushes me towards sticking with Cat. For me, with my past experiences wit JCB backhoes, I would not be interested in owning a JCB excavator. Maybe if one was given to me but not if I had to pay for one. While JCB enjoys a lot of international success they continue to struggle to gain favor here in the US (IMO anyway). Lack of a good dealership network, past poor reliability issues, and the resultant poor resale value contribute to this. I'm not saying that you won't be happy with one. I suppose it's possible that a JCB could be the best machine you ever owned. My opinion on the brand will probably not change very soon. The only exposure I have, to the brand, anymore is at Con-Expo. Back to the title of your thread: If not Cat then who? I would have a hard time saying with 100% certainty (a lot of factors go into the decision) but Komatsu looks pretty good to me right now.
I am thinking kobelco, or link belt myself.
My personal experience having worked for Cat, Deere and a few other brands is you cant go wrong buying a Kobelco. Make sure you have a strong local dealer for service support no matter what make you buy.
link-belt everyone knows about me. i choose lb for a reason. nothing more to say :usa regards cd
I almost bought a Kobelco when I was shopping for the CAT. But I got in a hurry the Kobelco wouldn't be available for a couple weeks. Kobelco has a dealer about 25 miles away. Haven't heard anything bad about them.
Go for Doosan, around here they don't stop working, also cheapest spares, and if you burst a pipe, they aren't hard to come by because they are British Standard hoses and couplings (hydraulic)... that sort of thing sells machines in Africa that's for sure.
I have had alot of Cats for many years.Bought used I had good luck with them.I now run Deere.I needed machine with nice cabs and air cond.Later Cats were alot higher than the Deeres. I now own 200clc and a 750c series II.Very good machines Run without alot of fuel per hr.Service all around.
Always considered Cat as over priced, loved JCB but the last lot are oil leaking buckets of bolts, Kommies now have a serious parts issue ,as do Hitachi, Doosan are gaining ground the whole time and anyone I know that worked one was very happy with them, Volvo a Very good machine. Case/ Sumitomo are very well respected here kobelco really good machine but with the tie up with New Holland have become very expensive.................
I had a daewoo/doosan 180 on rent for a couple months. It was quiet, smooth, efficient, but seemed a little puny compared to the hitachis I am used to. I think the terex machines are exactly the same as a doosan. I had no complaints.
hitachi, sumitomo, kobelco and daewoo doosan, never fail. had a fleet of cats long story short made a young man old fixing the over rated piles of scrap! case and sumitomo are still the same jcb are gone solo they would be down my list but not bottom, doosan kobelco and hitachi are the top 3 in that line for cost parts economy and lifespan, had a daewoo solar 290lcv with 24000 hours never spent a penny on it apart from 2 sprockets ,services, and greese!
Wow. What year model was the daewoo?
And thats why just about every mine from Pretoria to Rustenburg run Doosan machines to dig and load anything from coal to platinum ore... They show the Cats how to do it lol
yip a daewoo solar 290lcv year 1999 , it sat in a quarry for 11 years loading loose rock into a tesab crusher, not great at fine grading but better than a cat to fill the bucket, sold it for export to africa last year, it was going good but id say was close to retirment!
I'll give my $.02. I have owned 2 - 315CL's, a 321CLCR and a 325DL. I put 4k hours on the first 315 and 1K hours on the second, I never turned a bolt other than wear and service items. The 315's are great machines in my experience. The 321 had 3500 hrs when I sold it. No problems with that machine other than breaking the dog bones on the progressive link hydraulic thumb. The dealer came out a few times to reset the pressures on the thumb and after breaking two sets of Cat factory dog bones, the Dealer fab'd some beefier ones up in their shop and we never had another problem. The 325 I put 3K hours on when I traded it in. It was a very good machine, no problems with it and probably my most favorite machine to run out of the hoes I have owned. I demo'd a PC300 and the 325 on the same site before I bought that machine. I liked the 300, although to me, it seemed slightly weaker than the 325 - the kicker was the 300 was $40K more.:beatsme It was an easy decision for me. That's my experience with Cat trackhoes, worth price charged.
Thats still nothing compared to 24 000 hours on a Daewoo, I'm just saying
Are the doosan/daewoo machines exactly the same as a terex?
The only other brand of excavator I would buy is a Deere. Had way too many problems with the komatsu PC-200-6 we used to have, I hate Case excavators (yes I have tried one out), and there isn't another dealer around for anything else
Besides you can't beat Cat quality. We have a 320BL with 16,000 hours on it, and the engine and pumps have not been touched. I think the most major thing we've done to it is replace the rails, pads, and rollers
This is a problem, in the US, not a benefit. It is one of the reasons that JCB has had a hard time winning favor in the US (had BST before but I think they don't any more). I'm glad to hear that you like the Doosans. I don't have enough exposure to the brand to have much of an opinion. I will say that the dealership network pails when compared to the big 3 (Cat, Komatsu, Deere). I must say, that with my pre concieved notions about Doosan, I was not too happy when they bought out Bobcat. It seems that the minis, that are sourced from Doosan, have been pretty popular among some on this site. Stock replied that the Hitachi now has issues with parts availability. If true doesn't that mean Deere would have an issue too? Can you elaborate more on the parts problems you are reffering to (regarding Komatsu & Hitachi)?
Terex sells Doosan machines as Terex ones, but I don't know the details on this one... Anybody else care to elaborate on this one??
Well the US has always been different, no offense intended, but ja, the Doosans we get are the Africa/Asia version so they are more climate and maintenance friendly, ie, if you end up with a machine working in remote Ntsikeni miles away from any major centre, a Doosan owner would have no problems if a hose burst, provided there is a tractor spares place close by, which there generally are, somehow...
We had three case machines that ran well for years and did well on fuel, the dealer changed and have since switched to komatsu equipment and that has worked out well. Dealer support would be a big factor now and in the future as the computer age is well advanced on us. I would like to hear from any doosan owners about that machine and how it compares to the common brands out there.
JCB....stay away from them, i've been on a few over the years and in my opinion they are bits of junk..JCB=Just Crap Built
I'm liking the feedback! Probably wouldn't have considered DOOSAN before. My needs are going to be somewhat different to the pros in the trade as it's incidental to my business of farming. Likely will put less than 200 hrs a year on after 2012. I have an offer pending on a Cat 315CL. Failing that, Hitachi is about 40 miles away and I'm talking to them about a used ZX160. The JCB's don't seem to be getting much positive feedback. I took it off the list. Another ? Deere/Hitachi 160's pretty much the same except Deere puts their motor in? According to Hitachi they use less fuel? An observation: When looking at pictures of online listings Deere 160D with less than say 1500 hours, I noticed the seats were all ripped to shreds? *** they can't even put a decent seat in them!
My Brother in law has a PC 30 komastsu and has had no problems with it,i think keeping a regular maintance program is important for the longivity of the machine regardless of the brand.
Never saw a Deere hoe except here but I have seen thousands of Hitachi most every one says the same about them great machine, great on diesel, and if minded good for 20k + hours, parts are that expensive for them either.............
And if you still aren't considering a Doosan, I don't know what more to say... But i will say this, check the price on the Doosans, you will be pleasantly surprised at what you can get. :notworthy
Good info in this thread. I'm thinking about getting something for personal use. I'm leaning towards Cat, Deere and maybe Case, as they are all within 20 minutes from me. Size is the next consideration. I'm not sure if I should go with a mini, or something that would be a good compliment to my D3C dozer. Maybe in the 25k lb range or so...decisions...decisions... :/
Are Daewoo and Doosan the same? I'm looking in the USA used market. Mainly searching Machinery Trader or Ebay, etc. On Ebay Back in December they sold a Daewoo (2005 year?) Solar 175 w/ around 2200 hours for $42,500 on a best offer listing. Me thinks that was a bargain! But I didn't know anything about them. Right price/wrong time! I'm looking to buy from an owner rather than a machinery auction or machinery jockey.
Ohk, Daewoo started out as a joint venture between Hitachi and Daewoo to make excavators for the Korean market. In 2002 Doosan (a Korean engineering company) bought out Daewoo, hence Doosan Daewoo branded machines for a time. Once the acquisition was complete, Doosan was the only name left on the Machines. Doosan has totally upgraded the Daewoo line of equipment, and expanded the manufacturing facilities to handle the great demand.
theyre all the same, they all break, its all in speccing it out, i fix daewoo doosan and i'd recommend their 340 in a heartbeat, their 480's like to leak engine oil (v6 11L) deeres are great, we have 2 450's a 230, and a 550, a pile of cats and a few hitatchis (a new 850 up at detour gold mine).....i personally like the 450 hitatchi, those isuzu engines can go through hell and back
LOL they're all junk, just pick one! Best advice I got from a snowmobile salesman. Still undecided here! Just not finding what I'm looking for. Still several mid 2000 vintage JCB 220 out there priced right in the 4000 to 5000 hr range. Remember I'm looking for this as a sideline to the farm but don't want to be looking for parts and repairs constantly. Is anyone out there running a JCB220 that can give feedback?
i have to agree with doosan. why pay for a cat badge, be it on the machine or on the part box. having run both korean and cat, there is definitly no differerence in performance and a massive difference in parts cost. korean parts suppliers are also keen as anything. only problem, dealers and resale values
Is there anybody who represents Doosan up in Kenya? Rumour has it that Invicta Holdings (who represent Doosan and New Holland tractors in Southern Africa) is looking to put some Doosan dealers closer to the equator by going through their NH dealers, which as far as I know, extends to Zambia... Which is a lot closer to Kenya than South Africa would ever be, geographically speaking.
With all the Doosan love, it turns out the dealer 25 miles away sells Doosan! Now Looking at Daewoo/Doosan low hour 140 and 175 models used with progressive link thumbs. The quest continues....
We run a couple of Doosan's , only got because the dealer here is a good ***** . The 140 has a 6 cyclinder engine ( good ) which is uncommon in that size machine . Very happy with them so far
Jcbs aren't sumitomo
Doosan My brother runs a few Daewoo/Doosan machines. His oldest, which is being retired back to the family farm, is a 1996 DH130-2 and has circa 24,000 hours on it. Been faultless (apart from hour meter! ) until recently. Paid for itself many times over. When he started looking at newer 14 ton machines a few years ago now, he looked at most other makes but stuck with Daewoo/Doosan and hasn't been disappointed with his 140's. A big deciding factor in his decision was the fantastic 6 cylinder engines that they run.
I hear what your saying. Most MFG put a 4 cyl in that size hoe. The 6 cyl should pull better and run smoother.
We just got rid of our doosan. Had several small issues and it only had 2000 hours. Parts are expensive and not easy to get in the states. Just got a cat 336
Just gathering peoples experiences. What year and model was your Doosan? Can you describe the problems you encountered? Parts were a problem because the dealers didn't have them or they simply were not stocked in the states?