Hello All, Been awhile since I last visited. Quick update, I purchased this backhoe in 2012 and did lots of work on it.... way too much. LOL I have the books and have gone boldly where I really didn't want to go. At present, my steering is a bit of an enigma. The steering works well but give me trouble when I pick up a heavy load. Then I have to muscle it. Then it begins working again. Yesterday It gave me real problems as I was moving some dirt. The steering seems to have more of a problem when I get a really full bucket. After I dump the bucket the steering does not always return to normal as it takes a bit of time. Yesterday I had to stop because the steering just quit. It got real easy to turn the wheel but I had to turn it and turn it to get the wheels to react at all. That said, I was going to look at the steering pump today and I decided to start the hoe. I started it and the steering worked fine. So.... I went out and did my work of leveling. I did not have to carry any dirt in the bucket today. Any thoughts on why the steering is intermittent and causes problems when I have a heavy load in the bucket ?? I can pull the steering pump and have a look but I am wondering if it is a hydraulic pressure issue or could be something hanging up in the steering pump or something bypassing. It seems to be a pump issue and that is the only thing that steers the hoe. Now then.... is there some kind of lock out on the loader for picking up too much weight although this doesn't make sense ??? I can go out an pick up a full bucket and have problems immediately. Help, thoughts, advice would be appreciated. Cheers, Gene Pear River, LA
OK.... been thinkin..... Could a piston leak on the steering cylinder cause a pressure build up on BOTH sides of the piston thus rendering the hydraulic pressure ineffective ??? This would explain Why after sitting a length of time the steering returns to normal. Hmmmm.... I guess I need to check this.
No expert here.. Just some thoughts. A heavy bucket puts more load on the steering. The front wheels are harder to turn. When this happens perhaps the piston seal get blown out. Not likely there is pressure on both sides of the piston since the steering valve relieves one side to the tank. The intermittent aspect could be the piston seal is blown out in one direction. When you steer in the opposite direction, oil flow pushes the seal back into place until a heavy load blows it out again. Do you notice if one side fails first or more often? Could you remove a hose on one side with a full bucket to load the steering? After the initial oil flow from the cylinder, there should not be any oil flowing unless the piston seal is letting it by. A gauge in line with the steer cylinder will isolate the problem to the cylinder or the valve/pump
No, the valve should release the fluid on the other side. The last guy with a steering issue found a stuck relief valve, but he hasn't put it together to know that it's fixed, and that was a different brand. A sticky relief valve would explain your symptoms well enough. I don't know steering valves well enough to say what could go wrong with them to explain this. There is no "overload" lock out protection, the steering has problems because of the extra weight on the wheels.
Thanks guys. The steering has failed a couple of different ways. One way, it fails and I have to use muscle power to move the front wheels. There is a lot of back pressure/resistance but the steering works, it is just very very difficult. The back pressure makes me question whether the piston/cylinder is "leaking-by" as the source of the problem. This tight steering can occur immediately when I pick up a heavy load even before the steering wheels move I have to pull very hard on the wheel. I noticed when I lift the bucket to the top I have less trouble than when I leave the heavy bucket loaded out front and low. FAilure mode number 2 - At one point, the steering failure left me with very little resistance in turning the steering wheel but I had to turn it a WHOLE lot to get the smallest movement out of the front tires. In this last condition.... I parked the backhoe over night and when I started it up the next day, the steering worked fine. To finish my work, I simply avoided a lot of steering inputs and stayed away from the limits of the travel. SO.... I may check the cylinder as you suggest and I can rig a gauge. I am in the troubleshooting mode and just don't want to take anything apart that is not necessary. I will check to see if I have a separate hydraulic pump for the steering. Thanks again and keep the ideas coming. :drinkup
I'm all for troubleshooting before tearing into things blindly, I just don't know squat about power steering systems... I'm guessing failure mode 2 is a loss of pressure in your oil supply, and mode 1 is the load being too heavy for the pressure supplied, but the pressure is still there to give you the resistance. So mode 1 takes a while to go away some times? and mode 2 has only happened once?
I did some repair on a hoe then found the steering binding. Look up under tie rod ends rusty. Sprayed them then raised the wheels with the bucket mopped with oil turning the wheels back and forth and freed them up. Then greased.
Well.... my stuff is rarely simple or easy. It would be nice if I had a flow measuring equipment but I will press on. LOL There is a "steering flow divider" and a "steering system relief valve" and a few other suggestions that need checking. It also says to check the steering cylinder for leakage among a myriad of other items. LOL I'll check the hydraulic filter and bypass screen first then move on from there. It seems logical to me that the steering cylinder is leaking. The unit goes from working to not working then back again consistently. I'll just need a few caps and plugs to isolate some lines. I will post my findings an probably take a few pictures and post them as well. As I often say.... I know waaaaaay too much about this machine and learn more all the time. I wish it was by choice. LOL
Mode 2 went away overnight so I can assume something equalized with the engine shut down. Could have been a clogged filter. I don't have a lot of hours on the filters but they need to be ruled out as a root cause. Everything else on the backhoe works fine so I don't believe I have a fluid flow issue. The failures are two separate issues according to the troubleshooting guide.
I agree that they are two different modes, can't say they're not the same cause, but you'll know when you find it. I doubt the cylinders are the issue, but that's easy enough to check. Sounds like an open center system that runs the steering off a shared pump? this could get interesting... "steering flow divider" and a "steering system relief valve" those would be next to look at on my list.
does this model have a manual hyd. valve located on the fender to divert the hyd. fluid to steering or backhoe swing? I know company I worked for had an old IH was that way
The diverter is located on the bottom of the MCV and so is the system relief valve. They actually unscrew from the MCV so I'm guessing a ball and a spring and an oring. There could be debris in the system. I will take a closer look but I think I will break out the hydro blaster for a clean up. I do keep the big dog pretty clean anyway but I don't like dirt in my eye or the taste of hydraulic fluid. Ha ha Delmer, the whole system is suspect but I lean toward the steering cylinder, which as you say will be easy to rule out, for this reason..... as long as I keep the pressure needed to move the front wheels as low as possible, I don't have any problems, just a little chatter. As soon as I fill the scoop and lift it... I cannot move the front wheels. So I go from having power steering to muscle power steering. This machine is quite strange in the way the systems work. The brakes are unbelievably weird. I might just labor a bit on labor day to see what I can find out. I will post more when I know more. I do appreciate the help, input, and thoughts. Good stuff !!