So the shop just rid itself of the toxic mechanic, but now it's left with all the poisoning he did to the new ones, new as in one just came from jiffy lube and the other came from a GM dealer a little over a year ago. The GM guy is can work through most issues but doesn't know things like running a cutting torch etc, the jiffy lube guy is useless and is too arrogant to learn anything so I'm not worried about him, if he comes around he comes around. But the GM guy I would like to help if I can, but he gets mad every time management wants a second opinion on major repairs. Any ideas?
YIKES!!!! Thats the best they could hire? Quite the predicament! Sounds like the Jiffy Lube guy is just going to cause problems. Give him all the CRAP work and see if he quits soon. GM guy has to be willing to learn from others and quit taking second opinions as personal attacks. Tell him he will have to prove himself in this business and that takes time. Until then, suck it up and quit being a puss about it.
Let the GM tech fall down a few times....
Hello. Zewnten did you meet mechanic-ego first time? I don't know anybody in service industry without it. Anyway my suggestion you don't have to be friendly or polite with him. if I were you, I would prefer working with guys without mental problems. And once the shop will waste him too.
While we all learned from our mistakes starting out I was never too proud to ask "stupid" questions before making a lot of those mistakes..Although when a lot of us started out the smart "old timers" were revered for their experience and knowledge and not the competition to be thrown under the bus by the brown nosing a$$lickers looking to impress the boss...
Depending on your generosity, either watch him beat his head against the wall in frustration or offer to help show him, once. If his arrogance prevents him from opening his ears and shutting his mouth, you've done all you can. If he settles down and listens, you might be able to mold him into something worth keeping. Again, it all depends on your patience, willingness to invest and his behavior. Good luck in your decision. As far as labor estimates, ask, why do you think it's gonna take that long? He probably doesn't know any shortcuts or work arounds being so "green " Ask him, "if it was yours, would you be ok with it? " Might give him a different perspective
The jiffy lube guy told me I'll do it my way even if it's wrong but doesn't correlate that to why they don't trust him, he also gets mad about any form of questioning. The GM guy usually has a good attitude but it's too easy to get under his skin if he thinks people are being disrespectful, typical younger guy stuff. Today with the other guy gone the shop was already better, but every time management makes a mistake they see it as evidence of their beliefs. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of stupid mistakes made and they're getting noticed by the right people to fix it but convincing these guys the grass isn't always greener and to give it a bit for things to smooth out, lots of big management changes and getting rid of the old guard that ran the shop into the ground.
Coming from a moreless compared to most of you folks green guy. If the same stuck in his way old guy trys to adjust the plan I came up with for a job it gets old let him fail a little. Of course as no one life could be harmed or cost to many moneys. And the other thing from my experience is when some one ask the older guy a question and they moreless get blown of it goes a long way to just not wanting to hear a peep from him. And me personally will never pull wrenches for anything involving a incentive program...
Well if any of you have ever worked a car dealership you would know there's a pecking order in the shops. Some are worse than others. Working flat rate causes most to keep to themselves, they don't tend to lend or ask for help. Because in most cases that cuts into flat rate hours depending whos asking and whos answering. More than likely the X-GM guy above was use to that environment and just hasn't settled down yet. But as far as egos are concerned {Cat Dealer Shops are the worst by far}. {I have Whites Boots, Short Pants, A Hickory Shirt with Cat labeled guy wires, and I **** Cat Yellow}. Dealt with too many of those types, at the parts counter, service desk and working the floor. The best thing to do is tell both if you need a hand don't be afraid to ask. If they are not humble enough to ask then they will sink on their own or start swimming.
Thank god i dont have to deal with that now. I went to a job interview one time were they brought in half the workers into a room all at once to talk to me then they voted . The bad thing was it was 2 week or longer before they called me back and i had a job. If they would have said we like you and there is a good posablity we will hire you i would have held out.
I'll check back on this thread when it hits the fifth page. Man Oh Man, they told me a technician shortage was coming, they didn't mention counterfeit technicians were gonna be the next problem
These problems have a way of going sideways in a way nobody expects. If somebody who does the hiring but does not know the job gets told by his boss he needs 3 mechanics. He will put out feelers and get guys for interviews. And pick the best 3 that come in, because his boss told him he needs 3 guys. Never mind if they are qualified or not.
That statement fits any and every employment situation no matter if it's bagging groceries, baking cakes or mechanics. Does he have a pulse? Is he breathing? But most of all does he have computer skills. The rest we'll worry about later. The job starts at 8 am-if they can make it here by 8:30, we've got a winner. That sounds odd but a common theme these days.
Sit back, let the industry lie in the bed it absolutely made, and enjoy your pay going ever higher just for the fact you aren’t a moron.
Yesterday I couldn't even spell meckcanic-today I are one. Hicky Bob Doodley Dang. Remember the AAMCO Transmission ad on tv years ago-like about the 80's------------------------- {Gee boss I always did wanna fix a transmission}.
I’m a newer heavy equipment mechanic only a couple years in. For me I always try to figure it out and do it on my own first. If I’ve seen someone experienced do the same job I’ll base what I’m doing off what they do. With that being said if one of the experience guys goes out of his way to say “do it this way” that’s what I do. And if it really comes down to me thinking I can’t do it then I’ll ask someone . That’s part of why workplace relationships are important, even the old experience guys still talk stuff over and ask for opinions from others. I’ve seen a few guys like you’re talking about who don’t want to be told how to do something or don’t listen when you tell them even if they came and asked you. They usually can do some stuff but when the tough job comes and they’re struggling they’re SOL. I worked with a guy who would come and ask a question or ask how to do something and then when you have him an answer he would always say “I know” or “well I know that” Needless to say everyone started answering all of his questions with “Can’t help ya” pretty quickly.
I have worked with a lot of guys who always answer "I know" or want to argue whatever you tell them. But then the next day you see they listen to you. I just chalk it up to personality or whatever. As long as they get the job done.
The one that always rubbed me the wrong way was, the new guy would ask u about something, u give him the step by step and would immediately walk over to another tech and ask the same question.!! And if he STILL didn’t get the answer he WANTED, he’d keep asking.?? It got to the point VERY QUICKLY that the answer to any questions he’d ask was, Do it any way you want, cuz that’s what your going to do anyway.!!
We used to call that kinda guy an askhole.
I'm sure everybody that tried to tell me something thought I was a jerk too.
I had plenty of bosses and company owners that did that when I was younger. They would actually hunt down anyone who would give them the answer they wanted to hear. I had a couple where the lucky winner of that lottery got the job. It was either screwed up or cost way outside of any budget money that was left.
Some of this has to do with left side/right side of brain perspective, at least for completing the job. Everyone has their strong and weak points. Electrical repair/trouble shooting some grasp it right off some struggle. Fabrication is one area-many are great at welding but can't see weak points in a design. Plus welding/fabrication is a extreme ego area. For some reason men can't walk past without critiquing others welding skills. A bead of molten metal can bring on a hour long discussion of how pretty it is-never mind the fact does it really contain any strength. { Oh boy I knew a guy that could overhead and it looked like a row of dimes, didn't stick worth a **** but it sure was purdy}.
What about the NO brains people I have to work with?
That's the industry norm. They will be the first ones that get promoted and try to tell you how to get the job done. And how long it will take.
"They rise to their level of Incompetence"
I spent my whole career working under incompetent management and I had my fill of it. As soon as I am out of debt (1.5 years) I will be retiring from turning wrenches. Then I can afford to take a lesser paying job that isn't so hard on me. And the heavy equipment world can kiss me where the sun don't shine.
Boy talk about leaving yourself wide open, My first though was you would fit right in ha ha . Bob
I may resemble that remark!
When I started, I had a respect for the older mechanics, and had a great manager. He told me when the older mechanics talk or try to show you something.....you shut your mouth and come with your hat in had and listen. The old field mechanics ruined me.. showing me short cuts to doing jobs and how to handle situations....cause Field Service gets it done. ...GO FIELD SERVICE!
There’s a young cub working with us now. Our dept works with the big gear, 600t diggers so we don’t get many inexperienced people out here, it’s just too “dangerous” despite all the safety precautions on site. Young bloke who wasn’t even born when I finished my apprentice ship is like talk back radio. Never ending verbal diarrehab. Eventually he was told, you’ve got two ears and one mouth for a reason..
Sign in my HS automotive repair shop class: "Engage Brain Before Putting Foot In Mouth"
nice to know there's still ^^this many of us left!
It doesn't get any better anywhere else, unfortunately management is now made up of people who went to college to learn what it took older employees 25 years of on the job training, but because they have a participation certificate from an online college they will always think they know more than you, they then employ people to fill positions above you that have the same certificates and verbal diarrhoea thus the circus continues, your best hope is to find somewhere doing something that doesn't require a lot of management input.
Yes Cat dealer shops, along with the ego's of the fresh out of mechanic school think they know it all's, back in the early 90's. Horrible experiences! Jealousy and fear of losing their job to a new comer.
I have worked with quite a few young know it all mechanics. Once you know it all you no longer need to learn. I always told the apprentices I worked with that once they became licensed mechanics they were now qualified to work and learn on their own. Mechanical repair is a constantly changing trade and the to learn never stops.
Explained to a lot of newbies, "The Service manuals are on the shelf" to those struggling and would only ask to save their butts. One new kid wanted to know how to properly run a DD Rack, so I ran one in front of him, he said "OK but can you do that slower so I can remember," I sad "NO this is a production shop, read the manual and get some practice, but keep a piece of plywood handy." He did not pickup on that last comment until one ran away with another tech. He always had his chunk a wood on the engine after a tune or rack run after that.
Now they added two "interns" to the shop. Even though they've been through auto school and now they're in heavy diesel school they have no idea how to do anything, no basic troubleshooting with a multimeter, don't listen to anything even "get the **** out of the way before the cylinder crushes you!" They won't buy tools, nothing fancy; set of import angle wrenches and 1/2 drive crowfoots so they can change hoses, they both live with parents and the company pays them so they have money. And wow are they lazy, if you're not after them they just wander off with their hands in their pockets and then the shop manager is after me about why I'm not keeping them busy. He's the one who's supposed to be training them but he can barely handle keeping up with my work list. Sorry rant over.
Crikey!
That's an easy fix no tools equals no pay check in any shop I went in and for young guys learning i had one mechanic i learned a lot from he would charge me rent on any tool i borrowed to make me not want to borrow it
Funny thing about this business---have any of you seen the book keeper or secretary, bank teller, parts counter person or any other profession lugging their own computer into work, supplying their own office supplies or what have you. Just where did this notion of supplying tools come from? I have been asking the same question for 48 plus years. It must have started with Henry Ford because he was a rotten SOB.
I have mixed feelings on the subject but I know wrenches that earn far and above what operators ever will simply because of tooling expenses I try to do what I can for my guys that can wrench but I dont have a full time mechanic I gave one a coue of millwakee impacts and a socket set for them and about 3 months ago I started buying 2 Milwaukee grease guns a month with battery and charger I give them to my operators its there's to keep if they leave but anyone who is caught running a machine that's not greased owes me a steak dinner so far I have only had one
I am sure it is because if the company supplies the tools, you know what will happen to them. The secretaries do not lose or break the company computer.
Early 90s, When I worked for a LTL carrier they would give us a hundred dollars for tools once a month, if we provided a recent for tool purchases. That lasted about 3 months and then it stopped. No explanation on why it was stopped. But at that point most of us were at a hundred dollars a week! Now my tools are worth as much or more than my house, without including my service truck! Pretty crazy!
I could write a very thick box on jobs,companys and having your own tools. I will flip burgers before i have to work a job that you need to supply your own tools.
My part time job supplies all the tools. I supply a pair of prescription safety glasses and a pair of steel toe boots. Its also the best equipped shop I have worked in.
I’ve NEVER heard of a place that turns wrenchs for a business plan, supplying the tools.. wrenchs, sockets and ratchets.. I can understand supplying “special tools”.. but not basic hand tools.. I find it quite interesting, the people that respond who never bought a tool.. I’d really like to know what kinda business they worked in and what there job entailed.. AND where this job is..The States or Canada.??
The only shop that supplied tools was the one I started in, primarily Snap On. It paid mediocre but I was just starting also.
Everywhere I’ve worked for you supply your own tools. Then there’s a tool room full of broken and missing specialty tools that never has the one that you need.
The reason I brought this up-The pay has never been what it should have been or be for the fact you supply the tools.
The US Navy provided every tool you would ever need for your work center. Think about that statement though. If a tool was of any use to anything other than a highly specialized component designed to be part of a killing machine, it got stolen or traded with another ship's crew for coffee.
I never thought about the stolen aspect when I wrote my comment above, but of course that is what would happen.
When I worked fitting passenger lifts ( elevators ) , I supplied the basic tools and the company supplied any specialist tools, when I started I was required to have a complete tool box of tools, when/If you left you went to the local tool suppliers and made sure your box was complete again before leaving. I can see both sides of the tool story but I don't think there is one correct answer there are a few things to look at. Firstly it depends on wages, if the company pay an average to below average wage, then they should provide tools, if the pay is above average to high pay then they can surely expect you to provide your own. Secondly if you want premium tools, you ought to provide your own, then you'll look after them. If you don't mind what tools you have then the company can provide what they want, and as my last company, if there any specialist tools that you need then the company definitely provides them, but the caveat on that is you abuse it = you replace it. As for the stolen aspect, I had my tools insured if they were stolen on site ( which happened once in 10 years ) I claimed on my insurance who ended up claiming off the site for lack of adequate security.
Starting out in a truck shop the floor mechanics were to supply Basic Hand tools up to 1/2" impact stuff, Screw drivers, drill motors(Not Mag Drills), Allens and eventually TORX bits, the shop supplied anything specialized as Axle Nut sockets, 3/4 or 1" drive tooling, reamers and drill bits, Hones, anything considered as consumables. As I moved around the Quarries had the Oddball tooling for the Eucs and heavier loaders, most of the tooling for the crusher plants was furnished by the supplier of the crusher when constructed(NOT Portables). Most of the excavation companies had a small shop with heavier jacks, stands, hoists and such. Then life moved on, companies got tired of the ever changing tools designs and expenses so began the 'Well if YOU Need that socket to do your job you had better own one' commentaries. In the Chargeable hours shops on production rate we would have certain specialty tools of our own, SOME guys would allow to use their tools others were on a go buy your own basis. I had and still have most(NOT All) of my own torque wrenches thru 3/4", impacts and sockets thru 1", used to have Coffing Hoists and chain falls with specialty set up chains, straps, misc. connectors and shackles for track or swinging components in large machines work, had small specialty frames used for hanging the hoists to do field work where sold a great deal of those as left certain industries behind. JY got a number of the "Antique" tooling I had for DD and Cummins work, Liner Stuffers, Piston Ring Compressor(855) even the Injector Nozzle Bore reamer for the old END Macks I still had. I maybe got 30% of what had cost me in sales as just too specialized mechanisms for daily mechanics, many today would have NO concept of some of my older tooling. Today a Well Established field hand with a service truck likely has a couple hundred K in tooling and truck if owns their own, shop techs can be anywhere from a few tens of K to a easy 100k in tools and not even realize it.
I got rid of the old DD stuff years ago, that way when someone asked me about working on one I could honestly say I have no tools. Best thing I did.
LMAO! I'm sure I have everything you got rid of. As for tooling, I've never worked anywhere that supplied anything other than specialized tooling. Back when I started there wasn't Harbor Freight or the big box stores that carry basic tooling like there is now. My choices were Snap-On, Matco, Mac, or craftsman (and they were limited). I remember fondly the days of old when my paycheck went from my hand to the Snap-On man the same day.
I worked at 2 places that supplyed tools. The first place was on older heavy equipment so you didnt need alot of hand tools. I knew the owner well and was talking to him years before i worked for him he was looking a Craftsmans catalog about to order several sets of tools. He ask what was the diferents in 2 sets . I told him one had metric and the other didnt i found out when i started working for him he ordered the set with metrics in them? I dont remember what i did for tools until a coworker died and i got his. The sets were missing alot of tools by then but like i said you didnt need alot of stuff. the next place i worked was at a shop that did tires ,oil changes and small jobs. But when i got there i started working on there fleet of trucks.They had a miss matched set of Craftsman, China junk and other stuff. In the summer i would have a basic set with me and do alot of work out side or in anther building. I didnt care if i upset the office if the shop needed a tool i would order it without asking they had alot better tools when i left. I worked for a big company they payed ok not great but they wanted you to have about $200.00 worth of tools. It was a welding shop but there also was some assembly work but some guys never did any thing but weld. About 20 out of 100 had tools. One day they said every one needs tools by this date or else i thought if they go through with this its going to be lonely in the shop. Every morning meeting you need to get tools or else that day came nothing changed.
I put it in a box put it on a plane and told them to kick it out the door over Oklahoma.
Then there's this young guy trying to find all the Detroit tools
Obsolete, much as I am.
Tool Crib- a place where you find nothing you need and everything you don’t but half of it is broke even though it got purchased last week
At our shop no one keeps track of the specialty tooling. It's invariably on a field truck and takes multiple phone calls to find it.
Hell I swear we must work at the same shop we need a tool room attendant so bad it’s not even funny. All our stuff is old, crappy, and missing pieces you need and it takes hours to find and piece together something that might work to get the job done.
Happens at all the dealers or company work centers. People just want to get the job done and move on to the next one. Some aren't too bright and things get damaged, lost or stolen. Tool room people are pure expense with no revenue stream to support them so companies did away with them years ago. All you can do is make noise when you observe something wrong.
my pitch is that a tool room attendant would not only be able to take care of the tool room but also help us run machines for aligning buckets or putting tracks on type work, running a machine for us on the wash rack so we could clean it quicker, safer, and more thourghly, and help clean up in the shop while also making sure the tool room stays like it needs to and not have to search for hours and hours for tooling. such a person while not being a revenue generator could definitely be an asset for saving money through saved time, less replacing lost/stolen tools, and not having to pull another mechanic off of their job.
Had Tool Room techs at the Power stations, kept a running log of who got what and when returned, repaired as could those tools that got broken or replaced as had to, calibrated Torque Wrenches and rebuilt the batteries for cordless tools. Stayed busy for the most part. Had to do this for the Contamina-crapped up tools used in 'Hot' work. Deconned as could and even managed to get some tooling free released as no detectable contaminates or radiologic concerns. Add a small note, when hear of CRUD in nukes, is a misnomer ACRONYM, CRUD stands for Crystal River Unidentified Deposits. Just happened to spell CRUD.
One big brand new Rail shop i worked at out fitted a tool room but at first they left it unlocked . Alot of stuff was gone with in the first 3 months. Then they locked it had to get a key to get in then they hired a guy to stay in it be ether went nuts or they let him go. Then they left it unlocked agin then then you had to get a foreman to let you in . Up till that point every one was given a grinder and what ever you needed to do your job. Then they made use give back every thing so every morning you had to stand in line to get what every you needed. I was given a job to shorten hundreds of Metal HYD lines. They bought a circle torch for me to silver soilder them with. I was told to hold on to it but i put it back in the tool room every day i used it. The job lasted doing it in my spare time over a year before it was over the torch was gone . I brought a handle and welding tip from home to use. I never said any thing about the missing torch thinking i would get the blame.
Nice pitch, how well has it worked?
The main Freightliner dealer we use will loan me pretty much anything. But I'm the only one they will accommodate.
Well the interns have gone back to school so TGIF all around. No more following the one around fixing his repairs or how he's going to hurt himself. Don't think he learned a single thing the whole summer but hey it gives the guys that can do something a much better look compared to him. The former Chevy tech is now in a service truck, as far as I can tell all he fixes is blown hoses and replaced teeth and cutting edges. The other tech is looking to move over to an equipment dealer in a few months, hopefully winter will run him off. Unfortunately then we'll be really short handed but supposedly the jobs will all slow down and the field mechanics will be in the yard for the winter. Gotta start getting faster or more organized to keep up, but I'm not going to burn out either.