I have a 580B which won't start; any help would be appreciated. It ran fine when last used a month ago. Would not start, but will pop on ether. It seems to not have any fuel to the injectors as I cracked on of the injector lines at the pump and found no flow when cranked over. I checked the filter in the pump and it is clean, along with the check valve in the filter assembly. There seems to be good fuel flow to the pump I pulled the plug opposite the fuel input line and found no static flow, but some flow when cranked. Good flow when I press the check valve through lower plug hole. This leads me to believe there is good fuel flow to the pump. I pulled the timing cover and found the pump to be rotating. Seems to be no fuel flow to this area. I pulled the upper cover and found the fuel cut off actuator to be operating correctly. The pump was initially full in this area, but once drained, would not fill again. I would have thought the main body would fill without turning the pump over. Any suggestions to diagnose this?
The pump body can be slow to fill, nothing to worry about. Did you find the metering valve when you had the top cover off.. That's what actually moves to turn the fuel on & off via the electric solenoid arm.. Its possible either the MV is stuck or the pumping plungers deeper inside the pump are stuck.. That's to say, IF you have good fuel flow to the pump.. Did you try to start it w/ the top cover off?? Loosen ALL the injector lines so it wont start.. THEN try to start it w/ the TC off and see if it squirts fuel.. IF it does.. put the cover back on and try again.. STILL squirting fuel..?? IF YES, tighten the lines to the injectors & off you go..
I think the metering valve is in correct position, but am not sure as I have not worked on a diesel before. Thanks for the help. I will try your bleeding procedure.
The metering valve is spring loaded to the run position.. and is pushed to the off position by the solenoid arm.. It MUST move freely back and forth.. with a flick of your finger..
Metering valve is free. It did eventually fill with fuel. I cranked for a while with injector lines loose; no fuel came out. I found out my niece, 3, was in it playing and I think left the throttle on high; I have always left throttle at idle. Could this have cause something to stick in pump? It was not low on fuel; had no air in line; ran fine when it was last used. Anything left to do before I dismantle the pump? (If not, any suggestions on how to get the difficult nut of the 3 holding the pump on?)
IF the MV is free, the s/o solenoid is working and you have fuel to the pump.. that's about all that's left.. OH, and the return connector is free of debris.. There is a special wrench for that nut.. its in the shape of a U.. you can heat up an old cheap wrench and bend it.. use the box end when loosening/tightening. you may also want to pick up an "off-set" open end wrench also.. Don't forget to TIME the pump BEFORE removing it.. saves you ALOT of time on reinstallation..
Before removing it for a rebuild, try draining it and loading it full of B12 Chemtool. I have unstuck several that have gummed. Pumpguy can tell you what it might do to the damper ring and seals but it has saved several for me from pulling for a rebuild. Drain all fuel out side cover, remove outlet valve and refill with B12, turn it over a few times then let it set for a day or two. If it still won't pump, then pull it off.
I'm no chemist, so I'm not touchin' that one.. Now back in my younger days.. well, that's a different story.. lol
Aw, come on pumpguy... Just personal experience, I bought an IH TD 20B with a Roosa pump which had been sitting unstarted on blackland long enough it had sunk down to the belly pan. The pump wouldn't work so we did what I described before, let it sit for 2 days, then went back and actually started it. It has been running fine since 2000 without any problems so I would like to assume it didn't cause any long term problems. May crap out on me tomorrow though . Just an idea to try.
Send it to pumpguy He does wonderfull work and turn around was fast
xg; I'll second that. Pumpguy got me out of a big jam. Thought I was going to have a lawn ornament and he was able to get it fixed.
I remember THAT ONE Texan.. That was nothin short of a miracle that I found those parts.!!! NEW at that.. Its good to know people.. that's for sure..
Tried the B12; still no fuel. I dismantled it and found the black fiber ring on the governor ring in many pieces. Hope a rebuild kit will fix it. Thanks for the suggestions.
I dismantled, cleaned, and resealed the pump with the gasket kit. The pump fills with fuel and more is added as it is cranked. I bled the lines at the pump and injectors. I am not certain if I bled enough at injectors as I have not done diesel injection before, but there was some fuel coming out. The engine does not start. It will pop; it will pop longer if I wait a long time (10 min) between attempts. I tried ether: it runs for 5 seconds on a small amount, but will stall. It also runs longer if i wait a long time between attempts. Any suggestions?
If the return circuit is clogged, the pump wont pump.. Post the pump # from the name plate and I'll see if I can figure it out.. In the meantime, remove the return fittings from the top of the pump, all the way down to the aluminum cover.. and try again.. The throttle should be held wide open and the shut-off lever in the run position.. There are a few tricks of the trade when removing & reinstalling that pump.. Did you time the engine before removing the pump?? Did you line up the lines in the side window before removing the pump?? Did you line up the dot on the end of the drive shaft w/ the dot inside the pump when reinstalling the pump?? Did you tie the throttle open when putting the pump back on?? When you bled the air, did you have fuel AT the inlet of the pump before tightening the line.?? I guess so if it filled w/ fuel.. When you bled the injectors, was fuel squirting out of the lines AT the injectors before you tightened them up?? You might have gotten the pump done right, its just a matter of timing now..?? That's to say, IF ITS squirting fuel AT the injector lines.. IF the pump is on wrong.. it will still pump fuel.. just not at the right time.. and you'll get tons of white/grey smoke.. SO, lets make sure the return circuit is open and it pumps fuel, then we'll tackle the timing issue..
I tried starting with the top cover removed (same results), so no chance of back pressure in pump. I lined up the marks on side of pump prior to removal and reinstalled same way. I did hold throttle open while installing pump on input shaft. Pump #: DBGFCC 431 43AJ I can't see the lines when bleeding as I am using the starter button in the cab. I tightened the lines when I saw fuel on side of injectors. I will try again with someone to help so I can see if it is squirting. Thanks
OK kool.. sounds like you have a good jump on it.. BUT.. did you remove the weight cage from the head and rotor assembly.?? IF yes.. did you put it on correctly.. with the line on the rotor in-line w/ the line on the weight cage.. it will go on 2 diff. ways.. IF its on backwards, the 2 lines in the window will actually be 180* out of time when you put the pump back on.. That's why I asked about the dots on the drive shaft end.. IF you lined up the DOTS, you don't have to worry about the lines.. its just going to be slightly out of time but will start.. You can verify this by rotating the engine and lining up the lines in the side cover window and THEN check the flywheel for * numbers.. IF no numbers.. weight retainer is on backwards and you put the pump on 180* out of time. BUT, like I said.. it still should pump fuel, regardless..but not start.. if you cleaned it up properly. Removing the top cover is about the first thing I do when diagnosing a no start condition.. It just eliminates abunch of systems that might be in play.. good call. Just remember, once it starts with the cover off.. it gets REAL MESSY QUICK.. so be prepared to shut it off quickly.. Good luck.. TPG
TPG: I think you figured out my mistake. "BUT.. did you remove the weight cage from the head and rotor assembly.??" ; Yes, it was removed. I re-ran my assembly process in my mind and am certain I didn't verify alignment of the cage upon reassembly. In retrospect, I was so focused on keeping everything clean that I missed that. Thanks
I just re-read your post and you DID have the weight retainer off inorder to fix the flex ring problem.. What about the cam ring.. the big round steel ring UNDER the weight retainer.. did you take that off.?? You probably should have, inorder to get to the pumping plungers.. which was what we thought was the problem all along.. stuck pumping plungers. If you noticed, the cam ring has an arrow on BOTH SIDES.. THAT ARROW determines the direction of the pump.. when you put it back on.. are you SURE its facing the correct way?? It goes COUNTER CLOCKWISE for your application..
Like I said earlier.. you don't have to take it back apart for the weight retainer being out, unless you want to.. Just verify it.. BUT you might want to.. inorder to check the cam ring position and free up the pumping plungers..
When you get tired of pulling it on and off and taking it back apart and putting it back together and finding out it leaks because you cut a seal and have to order more parts, just to find out it still doesn't pump... send it to me along w/ a check... Lol JUST KIDDING.. keep at it.. we'll get it..
I will be sending it to you if it does not work this time.... Thanks for your assistance!
pumpguy does good work 69911e im very happy with my injection pump on my 580c thanks again tpgs
It Runs!! ThePumpguy: Thanks for helping me figure out I likely had the cage 180degrees off. Turned out to be a 5min fix. I put it on the marks at 8deg btdc, removed the 3 nuts holding the pump on, slid pump back to disengage, rotated the engine 360 deg, put back together. It started right up. I will paint the pump to indicate it is 180 off internally; will fix if I take it off for any reason. Thanks Pumpuy!!! :notworthy
kool.. glad it worked out..