I was able to get the injector pump off the Case 530CK. But I have something wrong Valves on front cylinder are closed. I see the marks on the clutch or whatever it is Injector pump shaft sitting at 11 and 5 o'clock with dot at 11 I see both marks in injector pump window away from engine Dot inside injector pump is at 5 o'clock position. If I turn it to the 11 o'clock position, the marks will align inside the pump window toward the engine. But shouldn't I be looking at the one away from the engine?
Isn't that a Stanadyne pump? That shaft should have a tab on the end of it that's offset off of center, lines up with a matching offset/center notch inside the pump, it will only go together with the tab lined up with the notch, can't get it wrong. Or am I missing something here? :beatsme
The dots have to line up, its off-center so that it can't timed 180 out.
Yes, that's what I was thinking, the shaft can only be installed into the pump in one position and one position only, the tab and notch will not allow it to go together in any other orientation, no? Or are we talking about a Stanadyne that has the shaft removed from the timing gear?
Is the throttle lever wired back? if not, the governor plates could be dropped down enough to not allow complete seating.
Just line up the dots.. if the shaft in the engine dot is at 11:00.. get a long screwdriver and turn the inside of the pump to match.. AND use the window by the name plate on the pump to set your lines.. Did you set your lines inside the pump BEFORE you pulled it?? if so.. whoever did the rebuild, didn't check the timing before sending it back, otherwise, they would have already been inline and ready to install.. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
Pictures. Please look. I agree with you all. But when I align the offset and dots on the shaft with the pump, the timing marks on the side of the pump are 180 degrees off. That's why I'm confused. The shaft hasn't been pulled from the tractor, so the gears and shaft should all be correct. This isn't the same pump that was on the tractor. My dad ordered a rebuilt pump. How can I tell if the governor plates have dropped? And what would allow them to drop when not on the tractor vs. the pump installed? I started removing the pump without throttle tied back. I actually had slid the pump part of the way off the shaft, far enough the umbrella seals were just visible. Then I read the throttle has to be tied back, so I did at that time. I have pictures to load if I can get them resized. THANK YOU FOR THE INFO AND ANY MORE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!! My father's health is declining. He has owned this backhoe 40+ years. It was actually delivered the day he and my mother (passed away 3 years ago) were married in 1970. He has replaced a lot of parts on the front axle and ordered 2 new front wheels and tires. He wants to see it run again, mostly for sentimental reasons. The man that my dad had remove the pump did so over 3 years ago. He could not get it running, so I tried (I'm NO mechanic). I didn't have any luck either, so it has sat waiting on promises from mechanics to come out and fix it. It appears no one is coming so I am desperately trying to fix it for my dad. We have a Cat 416C, so this older Case is just for him.
If you can tell from the pictures you can see both marks on side of pump. You can see marks inside clutch housing. And you can see the dot on the shaft at 11 o'clock, inside injector pump at 5 o'clock. Really confused.
I see you have the picture posting figured out.
Thanks. I just opened them with Paint and reduced to about 25%. I hope the details are still viewable.
Wait ... you said: " ...The man that my dad had remove the pump did so over 3 years ago. He could not get it running, so I tried (I'm NO mechanic). I didn't have any luck either, so it has sat waiting on promises from mechanics to come out and fix it. ..." Any chance this man installed the pump 180 degrees out of time? ... before you pulled it? So that's why the engines hasn't been started??
Probably that, got the timing gear 180 out by not checking the #1 valves were closed?
I really don't know anything about this, so please forgive me for continuing to ask questions. lantraxco, when you say "timing gear" I assume you are talking about a gear that the front of the pump shaft is connected to. The shaft wasn't removed from the backhoe, so won't it still be set correctly?
ALOT OF UNKNOWNS..!!! First of all.. the pump you showed in the pic.. 3042 is for a 450A tractor with a 207 engine.. The pump for a 530CK is a 2550 with a 188 engine.. Another thing is.. the weight retainer "could have" been put on 180* out of time.. 1 way you can check is.. while the pump is off the engine.. put air to the outlet on the head at the 7:00 position.. looking at the back of the pump.. turn the inside of the pump, in the correct direction of rotation.. when it stops. that's #1 start of delivery.. and the lines SHOULD BE in the window.. I hope this helps and didn't confuse you any further..
Old pump This is the pump taken off originally. So will this different pump work?
The pump you have now is for a 207 engine.. you have a 188.. the pump has the same internal parts as the old pump except the governor spring.. AND the fuel is turned WAY UP.. about 30% over your original pump.. not good.. if you get it to start, theres a good chance you'll melt a piston in the very near future and she's gonna black smoke like a freight train.. You never mentioned if you had lined up the lines BEFORE YOU removed the pump.. Check the position of the weight retainer, using air to the 7:00 hole, [looking at the back of the pump]..turn the pump w/ a screwdriver counter clockwise, looking at the front of the pump..
I did manage to get it started once about 4 years ago. It blew more smoke than a freight train and only would run at WOT. So I left it alone. When I removed the pump, I did have everything lined up. However the first guy just took it off without lining anything up. My dad erred in getting the replacement pump. The old pump was tested afterwards and said to be good, so I will put it back on instead. But it sits at the same position as the new pump, so lines will not align on it either. And the throttle isn't tied back. Guess it needs to go back to the pump shop to have that fixed. Only thing I have thought of, could I have mistaken the intake and exhaust valves? What if it is TDC on exhaust stroke, that would make the engine 360 degrees off. So if I turn it 360 degrees, the marks in the clutch housing would still be viewable but the pump shaft would be 180 degrees from current position, correct? Does anyone know which valve is intake and exhaust on the 530? I based it on the front most valve being exhaust and next the intake. Thanks again. I want to get this running no later that this weekend! Hopefully I am on the right track.
Remove the valve cover, front one if it is a two piece cover. If you are on true TDC you will be able to wriggle both rocker arms up and down on the valves for #1 piston. Unless they are so far out of adjustment (tight) that they can't move. Being that tight would be quite unlikely.
Alright!! I am excited with all the helpful information!! Hopefully I can get my father's backhoe up and running very soon. I am sure I will be back here shortly with more questions, but at least things seem to be progressing.
Agree with Tinker here. If it is at TDC on #1 BOTH valves will be loose on #1 cylinder. No need to know which is which. And yes a diesel can run if pump is installed 180% off, been there know that!
to hell with all that.. rotate the inside of the pump to get the dot to dot and bolt it up.. fine tune it later..
If I line up dot to dot on the shaft, the timing marks on side of pump will be off 180 degrees. That the problem I am having. As far as this being the wrong pump, I guess I should use the old pump. Since the throttle isn't tied back on it, how would I know if the governor plates dropped? Should I just take it to a pump shop? If the pump makes one revolution to every 2 revolutions of the crank, would rotating the engine 360 degrees make everything line up? I will definitely check the valve springs for N1
Well I figured maybe the font valve was intake and second exhaust. Then I could rotate the engine the engine and the pump shaft would turn , thus making everything line up. However, I just got this picture. Of does it matter since both valves will be closed? Just turn it until both are closed and the pump shaft lines up dot to dot and still shows the timing marks on side of pump.
Way too complicated for me. I simply pop out the injector for #1 cylinder, hold a thumb over the hole for the injector, and gently bump the engine. When it comes up on compression stroke for #1 the pressure will push your thumb. Once there, I take a piece of tie wire and stick it down the injector hole until it hits the top of the piston, then bar the engine over which makes #1 piston come up pushing the wire out while it's raising. Once piston gets to TDC it will stop pushing the wire out of the injector hole, now bar the engine back a few degrees to match up with timing makes.
If I accidentally have it TDC on exhaust stroke, could that be the problem of everything not aligning?
The pumpguysc is best with that advice, he's the resident injection pump professional, I was just offering an easy way to get #1 on TDC of compression stroke.
If it's on the exhaust stroke at TDC, normally both valves will be open somewhat as the exhaust has just finished and it's getting ready to suck in air. There may be exceptions to this but it's rare.
Lets back up.. lets start from the beginning.. You removed the old pump with the lines lined up in the window..yes.. You went to put on the new pump but the shaft dot and the pump dot wont line up with the lines in the window.. yes.. You compared the position of pump dot with the lines in the window with BOTH pumps and the position is the same.. yes.. that rules out the weight retainer being out of position [180* ].. Which leaves the engine being out 180*.. to make it simple.. just put the pump on DOT TO DOT.. THEN check the engine timing.. It makes a BIG DIFFERENCE in which way you rotate the engine while your doing this.. the pump rotates counter clockwise.. CC.. SO, looking from the front of the engine, the drive shaft will be turning TOWARDS the engine while spinning.. I know this "sounds" confusing but trust me.. DONT turn the engine while the pump is off!!!! the pump drive shaft has a spring in the end of it and will **** the drive gear and bad things can happen.. IF IT WAS MINE.. I would remove the seals from the drive shaft, just to make it easier to do the diagnostics.. Slip the pump up on the dr.sh., dot to dot.. bolt it down.. don't hook any lines up, we're just running thru the timing procedure.. NOW.. turn the engine until you JUST SEE the line coming into the window.. stop.. turn the engine while your watching the flywheel and STOP at 8* BTDC.. NOW, move the pump till the lines line up..and tighten it down.. now continue rotating the engine to 0.. TDC and check the valves,, if they are both loose, your GOLDEN.. NOW..Back the engine up about 45-60* and come forward again to re-align your lines in the pump window.. remove the pump, don't forget to keep the throttle tied back.. Put your seals on the dr.sh and re-bolt the pump up.. This shouldn't take you any more than 10 minutes..LOL.. Now there is a possibility that the pump drive gear has been put on wrong or the key on the drive shaft has sheared but we'll cross that bridge when we get there..
Actually I was figuring TDC based on the 2nd valve as intake. The exhaust was closed, intake open. The intake was closing as I turned the engine. Since I was just bumping the starter, I stopped when it got real close b/c I didn't want to go too far. But looking at it cycle earlier the exhaust (or front valve) would start to open just as the intake was fully closed. I still appreciate any info on the timing issues, but I guess I need to have the old pump taken to a shop to see if it's good and verify the governor plates haven't dropped since the new pump is going to pump extra fuel. I figured this timing would be a one day job. Looks like it will take all week, but a lot of it is because of researching. I guess once I find the old pump is good I can install it and try it. If it doesn't work, rotate the engine once and try again. Is this a reasonable way to attempt it or could I mess up more?
Anyone know what the 530CK weighs without the backhoe on it? It may be expensive but maybe I could take the tractor and pump to the shop for them to fix.
DONT throw in the towel.!!!! Just do as I suggested and we'll go from there.. don't rely on the valves to find TDC.. use the flywheel.. get some scotch brite pads or some sand paper and some brake clean and go to town on the flywheel.. the #'s are there.. IF you put the pump back on dot to dot and rotate the engine until the lines line up your gonna be dam close.. hopefully..
Maybe I have bigger issues than I thought. Someone else took the pump off originally. This time I removed the pump based on the valves. Then I looked in the clutch housing and the marks were visible so I figured it was right. Then I removed the pump. The shaft dot and dot inside the pump were 180 degrees off, but the lines in the pump window were lined up. So if I turn it dot to dot, the lines in pump window will then be 180 degrees off. DONT turn the engine while the pump is off!!! ---OOPS!!! I figured I could make the engine rotate 360 degrees and the pump shaft 180 degrees which would line everything up. I have noticed the spring by pushing the shaft toward front of tractor and it springing back. So when I finished last night the pump would line up dot to dot with lines both viewable in window, but the engine was TDC on exhaust stroke if exhaust is the front most valve. Today I wanted to have the old pump checked to verify it is good and I thought I was ready to install. I figured I erred on which was intake and exhaust valve. But the picture I posted shows the exhaust as front valve so turning it 360 degrees will put the pump back 180 degrees off. How is there a possibility that the pump drive gear was put on wrong?
I can see marks on the flywheel whether it is on intake or exhaust stroke because the engine make a full rotation.
I would LOVE to figure this out. I don't like losing the challenge , but it may end up on a trailer soon.
By "somebody" spinning the engine with the pump off..???? LOL Just kidding.. Is it possible that the previous "mechanic" took the front cover off to remove the pump and gear??
I wasn't there but my dad said the mechanic never took the cover off or shaft out
OK, so the pump and shaft are meant to go only one way. So if I try to crank it with no luck, can I just rotate the pump 180 degrees and try again.
rutwad, I wasn't implying that you find TDC of #1 piston by using the valve positions. That is only to get it close. Do like the pumpguy says, find and set the timing marks after you do that. Then follow his advice.
Timing marks on side of pump? Everybody, stay close. I have to run to town for a few minutes but will be back and working on this. I am sure questions will follow. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL!!! This is something I would have never even considered trying on my own. But with the knowledge and help here, I think we can do it!!
I am referring to the timing marks for the engine. Until you find and set them to the manufacturer specs, you will never be able to get the pump timed. What you are doing requires two timing procedures, the engine first and then the pump.
Ok Tinkerer, help me. There are 3 gears in the housing the pump shaft comes from that all have to be lined up. Are those what you are talking about?
Guys, I would like to thank you all again for you knowledge, taking time to share it, and your patience with my ignorance. I didn't know as much a few years back when I tried it as I do know. Last time I threw in the towel and it has sat for 4 years. My dad has asked me recently week after week if I talked to a mechanic friend about coming to help. It appears no one is coming and my dad would be elated to see the Case running again. He has gone to the pump shop now to have the old pump checked out. If it is good, I will install it. But the shaft dots and pump side lining marks still wont't match.
Have you ever determined that you are on #1 TDC Comp? You say there is a mark on the flywheel for TDC correct? Bar the engine over until you are on the mark and as long as both rockers are loose on #1 you are on the comp stroke. If you cannot find exact tdc with the flywheel you can use the wire through the injector hole as suggested before. If at that point the pump still won't go on then you have timing issues with the geartrain.
Somehow, someway, this backhoe will run again! I've always loved equipment. For as far back as I can remember, the left fender over the rear tire was my seat any time daddy was using the backhoe. I started operating this backhoe very young. I can remember almost having to stand on the pedals to make the backhoe swing left or right. We didn't have a good way to transport it, so I always drove it. I created a habit that I noticed recently and laughed at myself. I was sitting on the very very front on the seat, almost the corner where the seat cushion thickness turns flat. I laughed remembering that I used to be so short that was the only way I could reach the pedals. My dad has now had Parkinson's Disease for several years. He may could do just a little on the backhoe on one of his good days, but definitely not much. It just never crossed my mind how much it meant to him until recently when he would ask me almost every week if I heard from the mechanic that was coming out to fix it. I have given up on the mechanic and decided to do it myself. I am not a mechanic by any means, but trying to do this along with a ton of research has taught me a lot. Unfortunately there is still some I don't know, and this is apparently one of them. Without you guys, I would never attempt this. I wouldn't even have a clue what to do. I feel I am close and owe it all to everyone here. THANK YOU AGAIN!!
Deeretracks, I took the valve cover off first. Thinking that the 2nd valve from front was the intake, I turned the engine until that valve was closing. I stopped when it was very close to being completely closed since I was using the starter to turn the engine. I was scared another bump would go to far and the first (I assumed to be exhaust) valve would start to open. So with that done I went to the right side and looked at the flywheel. With my eyes and limited vision I could not see exactly what each mark said, but nonetheless the marks were visible. In my mind, that confirmed that I was TDC on compression. However, I now think that turning the engine 360 degrees would bring the flywheel marks back to their position and the N1 would be TDC, except it would be on exhaust stroke.
Will this shortcut work? What if I turn the engine until N1 valves are both closed. Install the pump with shaft dot to dot. Try to crank. If this doesn't work remove pump. Turn engine one full rotation until both valves are closed again. Reinstall pump and try to crank.
No, you need to find exact TDC to get the thing to run right.
Rutwad, Like Deeretracks says, you have to get #1 TDC --- there is only one exception to that. That would be the timing for the pump that the manufacturer has specified in the shop manual. I think thepumpguy said 8 degrees BEFORE TDC . Quit worrying about the exhaust valve position. You said you saw timing marks on the fly wheel, get a hold of a fan blade and turn the engine in the correct rotation until you see O degrees or it may even have a steel ball pressed into the flywheel for instead of a zero. I am not familiar with your particular engine but what we are all telling you is the same for timing any motor.
I'll say it again, to heck with all the guess work with the valves and marks. Even if a crappy wrench bender put the whole dang engine together wrong, unless he also got the cam totally wrong, that crank and #1 piston can only do one thing on compression stroke, that is, make compression, regardless of timing gears, tapered shafts, etc. Yank the injector on #1. Put thumb over injector hole, gently bump engine until compression pressure pushes against your thumb, you are now dead nuts on compression stroke. Stick a wire down the injector hole until it hits top of the piston. Bar engine over until the piston no longer lifts wire, your damn close to TDC. Now check your marks on pump and flywheel, bar engine back a bit if necessary to spot marks.
A big amen Willie ! The most foolproof way I know of. I would bet you have sparkplugs with the porcelain removed and a hose on them in your toolbox for gas engines.
I'll let you guys know what happens once we get the pump back from the shop. Thanks again!
OMG...Gas Engines! I hate those bloody things!
Is there any other way to air up tires?
Gas engine. Take away the G and add an s to the end, that's what I think about them.
The valves are different on a diesel than the print shown a few posts back, the diesels have a pattern that makes the front valve a in. and the second valve a ex. and is that pattern clear back the engine i e-i e-i-e-i-e. Best advice, quit making the job difficult, install the pump dot to dot and it will be close enough to run, you can fine tune the timing after its running. None of the 180 degree out thing is relevant---Dot to Dot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We took the old pump to be checked since the new pump is different. Should be picking it up this week and installing. I'll let you know how it goes. And thanks again for all the info.
Is anything ever as simple as it's suppose to be? :Banghead Why would fuel be coming from the fuel return line from the pump? Not going to the pump, coming from pump.
If by that you mean there is fuel coming out of the return fitting on the pump, it's supposed to do that, part of it is internal leakage, but there is also fuel flow to cool the pump. Usually the return fuel flows back to the tank from the injector rail connection.
Whew, that's one relief. Thanks!
Did you get it running ????
No, not yet. Thought there may be a problem and it was getting late. Hopefully with a fresh battery and time (maybe I should say willingness) I will get in going tomorrow.
When you time an engine by marks on the flywheel it can TDC 1 or 6. The valves will be closed on 1 and 6 but to determine which is on TDC you have to check for overlap. So, if the engine is set at TDC compression 1 the rocker should be floating or have lash and 6 rockers would be tight . From this distance it seems the engine s what is 180 out, which would mean 360 on the crankshaft. Check the rockers they will tell the tale.
I do this every day and know how to deal with this situation as I have to clean up this mess from blowhards such as yourself who kind of have an idea how to time an engine but not really. I usually only offer advice and not criticism here but you opened the can of worms. Now we will break down your ignorance in the quoted post and in the response to my post. The valve overlap , flywheel pointer timing applies to a four as well as a six. Not all diesels have I e ie ie ie valve pattern as you state , but that is irrelevant anyway. We are concerned with the intake and exhaust valve being over lapped on the Cly that is at top dead center. Why not time the engine correctly and not just close enough, that is jack leg. Even slightly off timing can cause piston damaged if it does run. If he lines the dots up and the pump lines are 180 out to get the shaft to seat how is the 180 thing irrelevant? . It is relevant because the engine is 180 out. Quite simple. In this case it is dot to dot and line to line. I think it would be more confusing to have incorrect information than correct information. Sometimes it is hard to convey knowledge on a board like this, but as we can see ignorance comes across load and clear .
Referring to the flywheel marks, I only recall seeing lines but no other indication. I will try to clean it some more. If I find a mark for TDC, then will each line indicate a degree? Edit- Just went back and looked at the photo on the first page. It does look like a "0" just to the right of the indicator pin.
I an effort to consolidate what others and myself have tried to convey. Rotate engine to line up pointer on fly fly to TDC or 0. Remove rocker cover . Try to wiggle both intake and exhaust rocker on Cly 1. If they move a little then the engine is at TDC 1. At the same time intake and exhaust valves on Cly 4 will be closed and rockers will not wiggle. If you get the opposite result, rockers wiggle on 4 and not 1 . Then engine is 180 out. This is of course, also as stated earlier, assuming the base engine has not been apart. So engine timed , then time pump and install. These steps will get it done.
You can take a swat at me if you like but these engines have been my life! In challenging me you have also taken on alr man , pumpguy and several others on this post. When someone puts an incorrect piece of info up here it needs to be dealt with. I cannot help it if you don't know a 4 cyl from a six, then call me ignorant in so many words. I have replaced hundreds of pumps in my career, mostly Roosa/Stanadyne, disassembled them made repairs and reinstalled them and no one needs to school me. I have never lifted a valve cover to find tdc, it is not needed to get the engine close enough to install the pump and do final timing at the flywheel markings. Not one of us was advocating running it out of time, just said it was close enough that it should run. I have seen customer units come in with the pumps jacked clear against the end of the slots to compensate for failed advance circuitry and never seen an engine burn down from that. That idea that a diesell will burn down because of a couple degrees timing error is much overblown. Back in the 60s I installed turbo kits by M&W and part of that installation was advancing the timing 5 degrees to optimize power, some of those engines and sill running to this date. None burned down, and they are still in my territory I have since retired from 52 yrs at the same dealership and am well respected here on forum in both diesel and hydraulics and have done phone consultation with fellow forumers to complete resolution of their problems, so I do not believe your haughty attitude is going to affect anyone's opinion of me. alrs, pumpguys, my and several others advice was spot on telling him to line up dot to dot. In one the man's first posts he affirmed that the engine had not been apart so with that info given forumers were acting on that. When that is done the engine will run and nowhere did I infer that was the end of the process. BTW, I don't ever remember you having to clean up any of my messes. The point is, the procedure for installing that pump was being made way more difficult than needed. I have put information up here that most never knew about even regarding the 0 advance kits supplied to Case to change starting timing on 580C backhoes to enhance the starting characteristics, probably something you were never aware of. I have said all I am going to say into this matter, just be careful when you put info up here that proves you don't have a clue about the unit being worked on.
Well thanks for the resume' , but we are not hiring at this time. I will leave you to bask in the glory of accomplishments from yesteryear . You picked this battle of wits me and your only come back is I don't know a four Cly. Is top dead center 1 different on a six? I to will no longer post to this thread and will avoid correcting you in any other future threads so as not to hurt your feelings.
Usually if you turn the flywheel further there should be a 10º or 15º stamped next a slightly longer line. Sometimes there will also be a 30º stamped next to a slightly longer line. Your photo on page 1 is too far out of focus to determine what you are seeing there.
OK, I have figured one thing out. I must be an idiot. #1 cylinder toward front of tractor. Put at TDC on compression stroke. Verified by marks on flywheel. Installed injector pump with dots aligned. Through inspection window I lined up the marks there. But I cannot get it even close to running! If I take the inspection plate off, will fuel run out from the pump? How would I know if an injector was bad? I have no clue what could keep it from running. Diesel plus air plus high compression and it runs, so I thought.
Here we go again... The engine is SUPPOSED TO BE at 8 * BEFORE TDC... THEN you line up the lines in the pump.... AND MAKE SURE your rotating the engine in the correct direction.. because if your rotating it wrong and stop at 8*... your actually at 8* AFTER TDC.. You may have other problems.. like a clogged return line back to the tank that will keep it from starting.. leave the return line off the top of the pump when diagnosing.. Are you getting any fuel squirting from the pump.?? IF you have the injector lines on the pump already, you have to leave them loose AT THE INJECTORS so it will bleed the air.. wait for the squirt and tighten.. MAKE SURE the shut-off lever is in the run position and the throttle lever is in wide open..
Just remember>> you can have fuel, air and compression.. BUT if your not injecting the fuel at the right time, it will NEVER start.. just sit there and smoke.. [white, usually]
I am at 5 degrees Before TDC. I just wanted to be certain not to get past TDC or before 8 degrees. Figured 5 it would still start. Engine is rotating correct direction. Clogged return line, I will definitely check that! Yes, I left lines at injectors loose until fuel showed. Shut-off lever correct position. Throttle- tried multiple positions. I pulled the pump inspection window and fuel does come from it. Normal? Diesel fuel looks good, but could it go "bad" after couple years?
I didn't work on it today, but I was told that fuel should not come from the inspection window if removed. I do have fuel coming out. What causes this?? Thanks again.
Always had fuel there when I opened them up? There's no oil anywhere in these so they run in the diesel as far as I know....
Rutwad..I don't know where your getting your info BUT.. The pump housing is FULL of fuel and returns back to the tank from the fitting on top of the pump..
I wasn't sure but wanted to check here to see. I can't get it to crank, so just trying to troubleshoot. My patience has worn thin, but I will soon double check the timing.
Your going to have to do as suggested a few pages back. Take the valve cover off determine which valve is the intake valve , when it is opened and then closed rotate the engine up on compression stroke. When the valves on #1 are relaxed , being that the push rods have no pressure on them then go to your flywheel and either rotate it forward or backward and find TDC. At this point you can determine if your out 180 on the pump. If it won't start either way , your going to have to remove the front cover and check that all the gears are timed correctly. At this point it wouldn't cost much to have someone look at it. Even at 90$ an hour if it takes 4 hours which it should not it may bring and end to your problems.
I've been following your saga ... But it seems you're getting conflicting and wrong information. If you look back, you'll see my troubles with the injection pump on a Deere 310C. It uses a similar pump as yours. A Standyne or Roosa rotary pump. They are the same design. I'm guessing like GM and Chevy. The pump always pumps a constant volume of fuel... But it internally dumps a portion of fuel depending on the throttle position. Because of this internal dumping, the pump body is always filled with fuel. Opening the inspection window lets the fuel out. The only way to see the pump internal timing marks when operating is to replace the inspection cover with a clear window. ... Otherwise, your dripping fuel. Anybody that tells you "fuel should not come from the inspection window if removed" is either wrong or thinking of another pump. Please pay attention to pumpguysc , who's been leading you in this thread... I have found his advice to be trustworthy
This may mean absolutely nothing, or it might. I went to the parts store to pick up a piece of the fuel return line and the only picture the parts man found looked like the first picture. What I have looks like the second picture. One shows the fuel return line as one piece, the other shows "T"'s at each injector. Also one shows the injectors bolted in with a bolt on each side and the other shows them bolted in on one side. Thing is, the 580B image is what my 530ck looks like. The image of the 530ck is not. ANY CLUES?
They both used the 188 diesel, what you have is the newer injection system with the pencil nozzles.
Well I found out this afternoon from my dad that the head had been changed and is possibly where the different fuel lines came from. Either way, I tried to start it and got this----well I recorded it but can't load. It turned over steadily for what I would say in through 3 cylinders. Then the next one was a tsssh, like air blowing. The cycle repeated.
Could be a stuck valve, or one out of adjustment, blown head gasket, loose injector... am I missing anything?
Well that at least gives me a direction. Can I load a video from my phone to this site?
So, the heads were changed. But now you have the original pump installed that matched the older injectors. Is that correct ? Hopefully one of the pros here will advise you if that is acceptance situation. Maybe all of the valves need to be adjusted to the correct clearance. You may find a loose lock-nut on one of the rocker arms.
Upload to Youtube.com , then post the link to the video here.
Tinkerer, you are correct. Head was changed, but many years ago. I cannot say if the old or new injectors were used, but according to the way the injectors mount in the 2 pictures, it appears to have injectors like the 530B. And the pump that has been on it for years is the pump on it now. greg, I'll see what I can do about the video.
Video I have never uploaded to youtube, but I think it worked. May be the worst video ever, juggling phone, trying to position for viewing, and cranking. Sometimes an extra set of hands would be priceless, but nonetheless here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4MDt597r3w
Have you tried giving it a SMALL shot of ether to get it started ? TOO much of it will lock up the engine and that is something you do not want to happen. Keep in mind pumpguy's advice about it blowing black smoke out the exhaust like a freight train if and when it starts -- shut the engine off as fast as you can. That is an indication of the wrong injector pump on it.
Okay, can you say if this has ever run with the head that is on it?
Good question. I wonder why the injector pump was taken off the first time. Poor ole Rutwad has been struggling with this thing a loooong time. Here is where it began. HeavyEquipmentForums
This is the same injectors, pump, and head that have been on it for many, many years and always ran. I was showing my dad the difference in the fuel lines on the 530ck and 530B, he said that must be because they changed the head years ago. I don't know if they changed injectors or not. But again, it has the same components on it now that it has had for many years and ran. Ether, yes. No luck there. I don't know if youtube allows it to be played in slow motion, but I did on my computer. I still can't tell what's happening. I kept seeing white smoke. It mostly appears to be coming from the 2nd or 3rd valve from front of engine.
This has turned into much more of a headache than I ever imagined. I don't know what I would do if it were mine, but I am trying to get it going for my dad. He has PD and recently became more depressed. But the backhoe is something he has mentioned on several occasions. I thought it would be a nice thing to have it running by his birthday November 29. Then I was shooting for Christmas. Now I am just trying for whenever, but I guarantee it won't be this year.
At least we know it did run in the past and the only thing that has been altered/changed was the injector pump. Would that be correct ? You say white smoke is coming out around a valve. That is a bad situation. Exactly where around the valve ? Intake or exhaust ? Remove the injector for that cylinder, get the piston up on Top Dead Center ( both valves closed) and then put some air pressure in through the injector hole.. Squirt some oil around the valve stem and see for sure where the air is coming out. Let us know what you find. What is real strange is that it will not start with a shot of ether. Even with a valve leaking that bad. You might want to loosen the oil pan drain plug just enough to see if there is any coolant in the oil. No need to drain the oil.
Seems like even if one or two valves were adjusted wrong or valves not working right due to rust or such it should at least try to run. At this point I would be trying something some might feel is on the crude side. I'd pull all four of the injector nozzles out and then connect them to the fuel lines from the pump, don't worry about the jumpers that connect the tops. Then crank over the engine while staying clear of the tips but watch for fuel spraying out them. Might take a bit of cranking to bled the air out. You should get a good puff of air out of each cylinder just before the fuel sprays out of the injector squirts. DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT get any body part near the nozzles while trying this! Fuel injected into skin can be fatal! Fuel should come out in a fine mist not big drops or a stream. This is a simple basic engine and should not be that big of a problem to fix once it can be determined what is and what is not working. I and I'm sure others wish we were just up the road from you and could see this first hand as even with the best of pictures and questions there is always something missing that could be spotted in a few seconds while being there in person.
That is correct. Only taken pump off and reinstalled. No valve adjustment or anything else.
Not sure if youtube will let you, but I just watched the video through Windows Media player at half speed. Around 55 seconds into the video, 1 min. 30 sec., and very end I try to crank. The white smoke may be coming from #2. Hopefully my dad feels up to getting out today and I will let him try to crank and I may possibly get a better video. MANY MANY Thanks for all the help!! ps- on the injector pump shaft without the pump installed, is it possible to compress the spring holding the shaft enough that it could clear the gears and turn to a different position?
As much as I hate to admit it, I may have to let my fingers do the walking and get some help here. SUCKS!!!
I would suggest that you have a CNH (Case) dealership technician come out and fix it. White smoke when cranking with a shot of ether and it still won't start tells me you have multiple issues with the timing and the fuel delivery. Keep us updated on your progress.
Thanks Tinkerer and I will keep this updated. I think something else is going on besides the timing, and I have spent enough time trying to fix it. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND ADVICE!!!!
Update...update....update I feel as though I failed, and that aggravates me. We finally had a mechanic come out to work on the backhoe. So far he has taken the front cover off to make sure all the gears were still in time. He has ordered gaskets and hopefully will be back soon.
Did he find any problem with the gears ?
NO. I really didn't expect him to because the front cover to expose the gears has never been off.
It sounds like the process of elimination has started.
I started to lay off the beer last Thanksgiving ( I was getting good at it , Olympic material) anyway if he gets this thing running I'm gonna pound a few cold beers in honor of getting this thing fired up. I read thru this thread a few times , every time I get to a point where I want to slam my hand in a car door.
SO.....who's to say the "new" pump is any good?
The man at the pump shop that just rebuilt it.
You cannot imagine the aggravation I have had. This thing has driven me nuts!!! I felt like I had done everything correctly, but it wouldn't run. So back to the forum I came with more questions, even simple and dumb ones. I would walk away confident I had timed it correctly but it wouldn't crank. After my patience was long gone, it would sit until I would attempt it again. I learned a lot. But still walked away confused. After my last attempt I was finally sure of one thing, I wasn't going to be able to fix it. So I had mixed hopes of what the mechanic would find. One, maybe he would quickly find some minor thing I overlooked like leaving the fuel turned off or something. The other hope for piece of mind but at the expense of the wallet was that he would find something completely unrelated and that it was timed correctly. Time will tell.
I didn't mean anything negative by that post , I have been there. I rebuilt an engine in a F12 Farmall , 1936 vintage once. The camshaft key way was worn quite a bit. The machine shop welded it up and recut a new place for the woodruff key. I put the engine together , lined all the dots on the timing gears etc. It was intaking from the exhaust and exhausting thru the intake. I tore it down checked the gears scratched my head and at that time consumed a large quantity of Coors beer. After 3 days of consumption and scratching my head it finally hit me sort of. I pulled the cam shaft and rotated it until it was close , it was either 1/3 tooth out or 1/3 tooth forward. Went to a salvage yard bought new old used cam with gear installed it and it cranked after the second pull. The rebuild hit me about 2500$ , the crank was bent , it was bad. Someone had let it freeze. Funny things happen sometime to cause such head aches. I hope you get it fixed for a reasonable amount. So this is to clarify why I want to slam my hand in a car door, I been there before.
I didn't take it wrong. I understand.
A new kind of problem So after 2 men worked most of the day disassembling, they have yet to return. It makes me wonder if he too is confused.
Hopefully they will be back , man I hope you get this thing going.
What do they have "disassembled" Rutwad. I am really curious and hope they get it running so we will finnaly know where the problem(s) were.
They removed the front axle, front cover on engine with the timing gears, and I'm guessing a few things to gain access. It took the 2 guys most of the day, but I broke my toe mid-day and wasn't with them the entire time. I'll take a picture as it sits now. ps- glad I checked my notifications. I was going to try and call him today but had forgot.
Uh oh Rutwad, How did find those men ? Do they really know what they are doing ? Red flags go up when I read that they left and didn't even give you an update on their progress and what they found.
Here is how it sits now.
Aliens abducted your two men?
Seems like they could have got a good idea if it was a timing gear problem just turning it over with valve cover off to see if valve over lap happens at top dead center. Not sure what they thought they would see looking at the timing gears, the pump was the only thing removed before the problem started, right? Was it running before pump was removed? Probably did mention in an earlier post but I forget.
Looking like a sad end to another story. Joe H
If the tractor was turned over with the pump removed, it would have needed to be re-aligned, could be the reason they tore it apart.
I am not sure why he felt the front gears needed checking for timing since the cover or gears have never been touched. Dad called last week and he was going to come back before the end of last week. We have yet to see or hear anything from him yet. I don't know if I can say his name is Randy Price or not, but I would not recommend him to anyone.
Who would have guess this would be such a nightmare? It's been over 2-1/2 months since my last post. The mechanic that came out, disassembled of the backhoe, and took a timing gear with him has yet to be seen. My friend made a suggestion that is starting to seem more attractive the longer this goes on. He said we should park it out near the road and have it as yard-iron.
I'd loose the hounds and go huntin' myself....
I thought you Alabama boys had ways to deal with a guy like that mechanic.
Yeah, hog tie them with duct tape and plant their arse on a fire ant hill, they'll beg for mercy before the first one bites them because they know there's 5 billion others right behind the first one.
Backhoe Case 530 starting problem I changed clutch on a Case 530 diesel backhoe, and it started right up after changing the clutch, the owner (friend) tried to start it a month later the backhoe would not start. I went back and the backhoe cranks but there is no fuel going to the injectors. I have spent many hours trying to troubleshoot this to no success. The fuel shutoff appears to be free when I move it. I need help maybe with photos, of how the cutoff (metering valve should look like. Also, this pump has no primer, I understand it primes itself, but for some reason, fuel comes through the filters and does not come out the injector output ports. Thanks in Advance for the help. Gees
sorry, I thought I was writing a new thread. Rutwad, were you ever able to get the backhoe running? what was the bill this shop charged you for two months fixing it?
I had plans to call him this week, so I just did. The mechanic said he will come out next week. Time will tell, but I'm anxious to get it going for one, get it and the parts out of the way for 2, and actually finding out what the problem is for 3. I will definitely post when something occurs!!
I have read through this entire thread and cant believe this has not been running yet. Regardless of timing has the pump pushed any fuel to the injectors that leaked out ?
I have a Ford 555 , that I put a new injection pump on . For 2 weeks it worked great, then it would not start . After trouble shooting , I found that the shut off lever would not return to the open position to restart . Under warranty , I replaced the pump 2x .Finally , I got a pump that would not stick when it was shut down. My point is , has any fuel been pumped through the pump , to the injectors when going through the bleeding procedure. Regardless of timing , the pump should pump fuel.................. then i
Wow.. I am just a novice on all this heavy equipment. But it seems to me that fuel injector pumps are the one place that a shade-tree mechanic needs to keep a Harbor Freight wrench away from. I had mine rebuilt, but I paid someone to take it off, sent it to a shop for a rebuild and then let them put it back on with no problems. Kudos to thepumpguy, and others trying to help those that get into trouble here for whatever reason. I know repairs are expensive, but I sure read where the inclination to DIY gets lots of folks in deep waters... I mean no disrespect to the OP here, and he is for sure not alone with these situations. Having the proper tools and the knowhow is simply not common...
I am byno means a diesel mechanic but I do have many years with diesels and gas engines.This seems very simple to me if the proper sequence is followed. This is how I would go about this Remove #1 injector and turn over to feel the compression then put a wire in the injector hole , bar the engine to TDC Install pump dot to dot Leave the connections on the injectors hand tight Bleed fuel system from tank to injector pump, free flowing fuel at filter, no bubbles (my 555 does not have a lift pump not sure about case) With a freshly charged battery, crank until fuel is pumped out the loose injector fittings Then tighten fittings and crank engine. White smoke out the exhaust pipe is raw fuel(quality of fuel maybe an issue) A small spray of ether while cranking possibly. No start ,recheck timing A properly bled fuel system ,strong battery, good compression,correct timing it should run I think the OP is confused on some of the terminology but has learned it over the course of this thread. Hope this helps good luck..
Mark, you are SO RIGHT and yet we have 9 f'n pages of putting on a pump. Lol The pump has ALREADY been tested by a fuel shop so we know that's right.. HERE'S ONE I ran into yesterday.. MIND YOU, I still have a **** up back.. I get a call from a mechanic friend who's REALLY, REALLY GOOD.. he just doesn't know fuel injection very well.. HE got a call from ANOTHER MECHANIC for some help. Seeing both these guys are mechanics and 1 is a VERY GOOD friend, I strapped on my back brace and grabbed my pill bottles and hit the road for assistance.. The OTHER MECHANIC was commissioned to install a salvage yard motor in a loader and couldn't get it started.. the inj. pump has a lock timing device on the driveshaft he didn't know anything about and yanked off the pump thinking that was the problem.. The OTHER GUY goes back to the salvage yard and gets ANOTHER MOTOR, Yanks off the pump, doesn't time either one and still cant get it to run.. hence the phone call.. I time the pump that came off the 2nd motor using a dial indicator and some special tools I own and head over to put the pump on, with help of course.. Time the engine that was 180* out of time.. with the engine barring tool I own. [Cummins] The pump is on, lines hooked up, air bled out and fuel coming out the inj. lines... NO FIRE.. WTH?? There was enough fuel squirting out those lines to fill a 5 gal bucket.!!! Shut off the electric fuel pump, to smoke and talk about the problem and let the batteries charge.. We say, lets try it again.. nothing but air came out the inj. lines.!! WTH ??? THEN FUEL.. WTH?? We did this about 5x with the SAME RESULTS.. How could air be getting in the system with an electric fuel pump at 10 psi?? We pulled the 4 injectors with the special tool I own and took them to my friends house who has a pop tester.. sure enough, 2 of the 4 where stuck open and pushing the engine compression back into the pump, overcoming injection pressure.. I disassembled the 2 stuck injectors, fixed the stuck ones, re popped tested and went back to the machine.. Reinstalled, turned on the electric fuel pump and WITHIN 1 rotation of the engine it started and purred like a kitten.. The OTHER GUY had been fighting this thing for 3 months.. and like I said, even went and got ANOTHER ENGINE to pull the inj. pump off of it!!! Just goes to show ya.. its NOT ALWAYS the injection pump.. it took 3 mechanics but only 1 that knew what he was doing.. Lol OH, AND THE BEST PART IS> He bitched over the amount of money I wanted to fix a machine, with a broken back and eating pain killers, HE'D been working on for 3 MONTHS.!!! I ended up cutting my labor in half [ I WAS sitting down a lot] and telling him to NEVER CALL ME AGAIN.. and buy your OWN F'N special tools.!!!!
Guys like that would bitch if you wanted them to pay for the fuel to tow their boat back to shore when it broke down out in the ocean with a hurricane fast approaching. Next time just throw them a plastic spoon and wave by by!
and yet we have 9 f'n pages of putting on a pump. Lol Pumpguy, it's actually 9 pages of NOT putting on a pump. By now the pumps probably gone missing. Joe H
This was the good friend? If these are your friends, who needs enemies. LOL.
Should be a timing window on the side of the pump, two screws hold it on? Pop that off and turn the engine to make sure things are turning in there, you should see one fixed timing mark and a rotating disk with the other timing mark? If it's not turning something locked up and either the shaft or the key in the timing gear has sheared.
" A MONTH LATER"... I'll bet the metering valve or the pumping plungers are stuck..??? SHIMMY1>> I know what you mean.. I'm just one of those guys that cant say NO, when someone asks for help.. for example>> 1 of OUR MEMBERS sent me a pump.. I guess he was down on his luck cuz he put 100.00 in the box.. WE ALL KNOW what a pump rebuild costs.!!!! WELL, he ended up sending the pump to someone else by mistake.. THAT PERSON was kind enough to use part of the 100.00 to reship it to me for repair.. SO I open a box with a pump in it and 40.00.??? I wondered what the 40.00 was for?? I finally get the story and rebuild the pump and send it back.. A f'n gasket kit costs 37.00 without tax and the other parts that were broken cuz he tried to fix it, were about another 100.00... and shipping was 20.00..LOL Hows THAT for helping out ??? [or being a sucker ] LOL Sometimes you feel like a nut.. sometimes you don't.. :drinkup
Mechanic is suppose to call me and come back this week!! I don't know why, but I have been having trouble accessing this forum or it's terribly slow. Regardless, I will let you know what happens.
Any updates????
Well, I never heard from him last week. Sent a text earlier this week and left a voice mail today. Nothing yet. I think this could be a good case of the runaround....
Just politely inform him you at least need the part(s) back, and if he can't do that, where would he like his backhoe delivered?
This is ridiculous and aggravating! :Banghead I talked to the mechanic a couple weeks after his first visit and he said he was waiting on a gasket set to come in. I talked to him again after that, but don't remember the exact conversation. He told me when he may come. He did not show. I called, left messages, texted, and even sent a Facebook message to both him and his son (his son came to help the day he did show). I did not hear anything! So when I called just a couple weeks ago and he answered (must have been so long he didn't recognize my number), he first said he thought I called and left him a message saying not to worry about coming back that I already had someone else fix it. I told him never did I say that. I even pointed out the fact that he took some part with him and still has it. That is when he told me he would come back the following week, but would not be Monday or Tuesday. No show! So in the last couple of weeks I have called with no answer, called and left a message, and sent a text all with no response. I went back to facebook to message as well. I pulled up the old message to continue the conversation and it said I was no longer able to reply to him. That means he either is no longer on FB or blocked me. I don't even know what to think. Maybe it's more of a job than he expected, but he charges hourly. Maybe he isn't a trained mechanic and does not think he will be able to fix it. This would about make a preacher lay down his Bible.
I know it s*x but it time to move on.. I forgot what gear he took.. the inj pump drive?? Just go on ebay and theres a lot of them.. cheap.. If this clown has blocked you, then he's done with you.!!! I'd go buy a gear, washer and nut and be done.. Try buying a $1600.00 inj. pump, putting it on and then getting it shoved up your ass..!! Lol I never called him and he never called me.. I just moved on.. But then again, your guy tore the front of the motor apart didn't he?? That doesn't help any.. I think I sent you a COMPLETE REBUILD MANUAL in an email once.. give it a try.. You'll probably need a front gasket? I wouldn't use silicone on anything, but that's just me.. just incase things don't work out and it has to come apart again.. Theres a web site.. I think EPS is the name of the company, they have everything you'll need.. I think.. You have the serial # plate right.. that's all you'll need, THAT and some money.. Make a list of things you'll need, add the money you already paid the jack-leg, take some pictures and head to the magistrates office.. along w/ any msgs and your FB msgs and blockage.. That's TO KOOL of a machine to sit and rust with the covers off..
It's time to call the Sheriff. The guy stole your parts, that's a crime. Joe H
You guys are right and I had thought about rust, dirt, and dirt dobbers. I think he took the gear between crank and pump. I forgot you sent me something a while back. I could be wrong buti think it was just specifications. I'm on my phone now but I'll see ifi can find it when I get home. I am aggrevated he took the front end off including axle radiator etc.
Has the thought occurred to you that your parts may be on someone else's engine ? Take the advice of thepumpguysc and move. Like he said the parts are not that expensive. Besides we are on page #10 and want to see you post back that it is running.
rutwad, Here's my idea. Put that Case on a rollback and send it up to NY. I'll do what needs to be done and when it's running send the truck back to get it! I have a couple stumps I could use it to dig out. I'll even post a video of it working for everyone to see.
Lucky me, right? pumpguy, I have lost the file. My old email was hacked so I have a new email account and I have also had to do a complete computer reset this year. I will go try to at least locate what parts are here. I wasn't able to stay with them all day so I don't even know where the parts are. I'll sort through that and see what I may be missing.
Rutwad, I wasn't gonna get back into this post but, If you would take a pic of the front of the engine and a pic of all the parts you have and post the pic I'm sure that we can tell you what's missing. What should have been a 1.5hour job has turned into a nightmare for you.
Pictures after teardown First, I want to say to you all that I really do appreciate your support, advice, and motivation not to mention the time you take to share. :drinkup So this morning I went to dad's to see what parts I could find. It was not what I was expecting. The most parts I found in the same place were only 2. I have no clue where the bolts and hardware are, but here are some pictures. PS- This forum is the slowest site I visit on the internet. Do you have this problem? I often can't even get it to open a page. Right now I can't even load the window to add attachments. I'm trying. I notice I am even pressing my mouse button harder....that doesn't help either.
I'm only doing some of them per post because I'm scared too many may not load at all.
More
You can see from all the organization why I had a little trouble locating the hardware.
Here's the picture that didn't load. The last picture is the reason I called it a half day and wasn't there when he put the pieces wherever they may be. I broke my toe. I see the picture is dated February 20, so we have been waiting on Randy's return since.
It looks like you're missing the pump drive gear and the idler gear.
Did you trip on something in the garage ?
Meanwhile, back to my call the law suggestion. This guy stole your parts, you owe him nothing. Joe H
The pump and shaft and gear, the idler gear at least are gone or not pictured, did they leave the retaining plate and timing pointer possibly in a container? It would seem to me that you have a basis for some kind of a legal remedy to recover at least the parts returned.
OK, I thought he may have the idler gear but you are right about the pump gear and I didn't even think about the shaft. I looked in containers, boxes, inside, outside, etc. With a lot of miscellaneous stuff laying around already, it was hard for me to find what I did because I'm not really sure what all to look for. I may send him a message asking for him to at least return the parts. My only reason for hesitating was fear he may also send a bill. We never received a bill, surprisingly. Why do you think a mechanic would ever do part of a job and leave us in such a mess?
The last thing you'll get from this thief is a bill. Call the law. Joe H
AMEN-I think whoever posted about your parts being on another machine probably hit it on the head-these clowns needed some parts and you happened to have what they needed. If you ever get this thing to dig again I have a thought about what the first deep hole ought to be used for...
And I thought *I* was having problems with my 530CK basket case project. At least it does start and run now even if I can't figure out why the rebuilt hoe cylinders are slow and weak while the leaking loader cylinders are strong. Sometimes I just don't know when I have have it good...really feel for you, rutwad-this is a freaking nightmare come to life. Sure makes me think that I'll never again hire ANYONE without writing down their license plate number at a minimum and asking if they mind if I make a scan of their driver's license.
I didn't give it much thought when someone mentioned the parts may already be installed on another machine, but you may very well be right. He was determined to take the front end apart so he could check the gears for timing problems. I told him that had NEVER been touched before. The pump was taken off, rebuilt, and put back on by somebody that didn't know what I was doing. Not only did he do that, but he took the gears home so he could make sure they were timed right. Again, I don't know how all this works, but wouldn't you need more than just those gears to know?
..."he took the gears home so he could make sure they were timed right..." That's a new one !! Right along with blinker fluid and the smoke shifter. :beatsme
Maybe it was the pump.
I wish I tripped. I was carrying a homemade stump jumper puller outside. It's probably 24" x 48". I was a little weaker by the time I got outside. I swung the bottom out (apparently 3' 11") and the top feel back with the top landing on my toe. That's when I left. It landed behind the split bone. I guess the force caused the bone to separate like that. It was one of those hurts where I couldn't even scream.
Well, I have not had occasion to dig into that particular cranny of my hoe's anatomy [YET] so I'm clueless about that, but given time I'm sure she'll need an itch scratched there also. If you ever get your paws on those guys be sure to post back here with juicy details, please! I can't be the only one here who would just love to vicariously experience a fitting revenge on 'em.
I did send him a message and said "If you aren't ever coming back to finish, could you at least send the parts back" or similar and left him out address.
If I call Randy and he accidentally answers because he doesn't recognize my number, I am afraid I may lose it and say a few things I really should not say. But the Jack A__ could at least have the balls to say I'm not coming back or return my parts or something. I'm not asking, but if anybody wants to call it is for the 1965 Case 530ck he worked on in Letohatchee for John Smith. I have been the one that talked to him most. I'm Johnny Smith. He came out once February 20. He will not answer calls, texts, messages, and has lied more than once about coming back to finish. Randy Price cell is 334-233-5911. He has a shop in Elmore, AL called R & D Equipment. It looks like the number there is 334-514-4555. Located at 65 Jackson Street, Elmore, Alabama 36025. Randy Price, I hope you are a forum member. Just saying
Have you considered going to see him ? Maybe he died or was killed by another customer.
Pure logic
Why the hell won't you call the police? What's the worst that could happen? They tell you they won't get involved, at least you tried. You let this guy screw you and you want others here on the forum to call him for you? What's up with that? Joe H
It's not calling for someone else to handle the problem. It's calling for mass pressure to let him know that others know.
********. He won't call the police, he won't confront the guy. Why should Randy Price care if people he never heard of call him? He screwed the OP and got away with it. "Hey Randy, this is Joe H in New Mexico & I think you're a bad guy!" So what? Alternative scenario: "Hey Randy, this is so & so from Elmore County Sheriff Bill Franklin's office. *** is going on with this dipwad Rutwad and his stolen injector pump and parts ? You wannna explain this real quick or do we need to come down there and talk to you?" Joe H
Guess I hurt his feelings? Joe H
Joe H you have way too much faith in the police, for stuff like this they are about as useless as t i t s on a board. They will just tell him to take it to small claims court which we all know is also a joke.. Sounds to me like this scumbag needs his legs broke to learn a thing or two...
Rutwad if I lived in the same town as you I would be more than happy to help you solve this problem.
I live in a small town, the Sheriff here would definitely be willing to listen. If you don't ask you don't know what they'll say. I've had them lean on someone & it works wonders. What's Rutwad have to lose? If he won't bother to call, why should he expect me or you to call for him? Let me add this, the Sheriff may be familiar with this guy. Anyone who runs a business (?) this way has been in contact with the law before. Joe H
Well it at least shows up on google street view. Link here .
Oh yeah, looks like my shop... does not inspire great confidence....
Looks like he may need to sell those parts to pay his taxes or for food, doesn't look like a booming business.
I would just call and ask for my parts back and get someone else to finish the job. If you don't have any luck that way , file a small claims suit on the guy and have the sheriff serve the papers. At this point I would not want the guy to finish the job anyway.
sometimes people don't get for their work, and takes something for a ransom [2 sides to all stories]
I haven't been back to check on this thread. For some reason I haven't been getting notifications. Since he will not talk with me, I sent him a text about 2 weeks ago. I was polite and asked that if he isn't going to come back to finish the job, would he at least return our parts he took. I left him our address. Well nothing has shown up. Monday or Tuesday I called and it went to voicemail. I told him he has left us in a mess, taken parts he won't return, won't answer or return any of my calls, etc. Just this morning I looked up the company to see if I could find the name of the owner since I was not sure it was him, although I was pretty sure it was. I ran across another number, I guess a landline. I just called it. I got a phone company recording saying the company is no longer in business. Any other ideas? Drag it up beside the road as an antique display? I don't know!
Do a physical visit to his place of business. Stop with messages and such. If the business is closed, check with your state to file a lien against it for the value of your parts.
After I posted yesterday, I called another man that uses this mechanic. He is the one I originally got Randy's number from. He said that Randy had disconnected the number I called yesterday and went solely with a cell phone. I verified the number I had for Randy with this other man and it was correct. I told him the situation and he said that did not sound like Randy at all. He was going to call Randy and ask him to call me yesterday. Still heard nothing. I decided to look up the parts we need that Randy took. Unless I am looking at the wrong gears, they are not cheap at all!!
Gears are never cheap, but good used ones should suffice, that's what you had was good used ones. Just gotta locate some!
I heard nothing so I passed word that I could place a lien on his property for the value of the parts he took and only asked that he return them. He texted me asking for my address saying he would ship them to us.
Amazing how certain words can get ones attention. Once you get the parts he does send you take some pictures and post them here and with any luck someone will be able to coach you along on getting it back together. Wish it was closer to me I'd be tempted to run over to see if I was able make sense of it.
Looking at my the pictures in post 152, you can see how the engine was exposed. Does this mean I need to tear it down farther, or flush it out with ..........??? and clean up the front?
Me to ! I wish both of us could down there.
I would drop the oil pan at least. you might find some of your hardware in it. (the opening for the gear is the perfect catch-all)
Agree, no telling what this guy may have dropped in there by accident or on purpose. I'd also check every fastener that is exposed on that engine.
Hey, I'm all for that. So 3 for 3, it's unanimous! And if ya'll ride together and split the driving up, it's really like only half as far.
Great attitude Rutwad ! If you pull off the oil pan to look for anything that may be in there that shouldn't be, leave it off until you get everything back together. You will also have an opportunity to look for any coolant leaks. Actually i would pressurize the cooling system and then look for leaks.
Turning over a new leaf.....part I would honestly LOVE for someone knowledgeable to walk through the problem to fix it. I am always curious about almost everything down to the fact of trying to understand. So far with all my failed attempts plus that of the disappearing mechanic makes me wonder if there is more to it than expected. Not by me because I had no idea what to expect. The parts arrived, but I haven't looked to see what yet. I will tear into that maybe this afternoon and update here. I literally dread the task ahead of me. My mechanic skills boil down to knowing what most tools are called, and usually lefty-loosey righty-tighty...lol. My only attempt to work on things is usually small projects. Take a few things off, and basically reverse the process to put together. I don't think this is going to be anything similar. Would I like to see this backhoe back running? You bet!!! It was here before I was born and dad has never been one to tell me, "don't try that", "you're too young", etc. So I grew up putting my fair share of time sitting on the fender. Then I was driving it as soon as I could reach the pedals. Dad wouldn't haul to local jobs. We didn't have a dedicated transport, so I would usually drive. After many years of "working" from the fender, I was probably the absolute best!! Best observer that is. But I learned a lot. So I was a decent operator at a young age with little practice. The number 1 reason I really want to see it run is because I know how much my dad wants that. I doubt he would ever have gotten rid of it regardless, but it was delivered the same day he married my mom. Well after she passed, I think the connection and what it meant to my dad strengthened. It sucks BAD that this project has taken so long. 4 years ago my daddy probably could have still gotten out and operated it as he wanted. Now, I'm not sure he would even try to do that, but it would definitely have to be on one of his better days if he did. Really sad thought for me.......... I would LOVE to get him on it again no matter how little he could do. I would want to picture and video it. I think I have said this before and if not, I definitely should have. You guys have stuck with me following this post for a very long time, offering advice, opinion, and actually much more motivation than you would expect. Otherwise, I may have never touched this project. I just hope I haven't made it worse, but if so there is no way to undo what has been done. I wish I was more knowledgeable and able, but maybe I will learn something as it goes. Where I will need the most motivation I expect would be after I comfortable have everything back together and it shows absolutely no sign of trying to run. Keep me straight guys! Thank you and I'm sure a warm, unspoken "thanks" from my dad as well.
Rutwad .. You give "Labor of Love" a new meaning ... Machines are really simple things. The right parts in the right order in the right place and it will work as it should. If your machine doesn't work on the first try, it just means you're not finished yet. Time is the key. Sounds like, You need the machine to wait on your father, not the other way. After 14 pages ...I'm betting on you :drinkup
You have what amounts to the largest tech support group in the world behind you, you have but to ask and someone here will have the answer for you, if not be on the road to lend a hand.
Rutwad ; I am glad to hear your parts "arrived". Did you buy replacements or did the thief return them ? Is hiring a Case dealership mechanic an option at all ? After reading your last post, I really wish I could come to Alabama and help you.
Thanks for the kind words. I just went down to open the package and see what he did ship. He sent a new gasket set that he had ordered along with the parts he took from here.
FWIW, I texted the mechanic this morning. I though maybe he knew something I didn't. I asked him just tell my honestly why he didn't come back, if it was more than he expected or what. No hard feelings, and thanks for returning the parts. He called me right away and was very nice. He has a service manual he is going to make copies of the section I need and send to me. He offered to help any way he could over the phone if (more like when) I run into issues and need advice. So hopefully soon I can get started. OK, so soon may be a month b/c it seems nearly impossible just to keep up with regular things.
Just got to thinking about this thread the other day, after seeing the complete and utter trainwreck that is still ongoing on another thread. Rutwad, did you ever get this thing figured out??
No, it got moved to the back burner. I'm guessing there is some other problem
That must be getting old seeing that thing still taking up space almost 3 years later, lol.
Align the timing marks on flywheel at 8 degrees before TDC, go ahead a pull the valve cover and roll engine over until back two valves (ones closest to fuel tank) when the exhaust valve closes and the intake valve starts to open number 1 will be on TDC. Then check the timing marks and you will see a 0 or TDC on flywheel and degree numbers should be there also, set engine on 8. If for some reason it doesn't line up then I'd check pump out like Thepumpguy said it's probably wrong one. go back to pump shop and tell them what you have and what's happening.