Here's a video of the prototype proof of concept of the tech, at the end a bigger brother. Currently finishing up a small Volvo(Samsung) EW55B with the system for demonstrations and testing the system's capabilities on this carrier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqKIo1iMmVg Another one of the carriers Thanks to Heavyequipmentforums as i have used various posts for valuable sources of information, as I am the hands to this ventures brains. Made me look good a few times so I wanted to give something, so thought you guys would like a view with this early footage.
Nice concept. Does its use require a blasting permit? Looks like it may have some potential in several types of use.
That has some impressive destructive power, but some shielding may be a good idea to try and control the fragments.
Those shots were early videos of the concept but were the most theatrical, they have controlled the foam injection now to where the fractured pieces fall to your feet. It uses 4-6000 psi to syringe foam into a drilled hole (drill is on the machine as well) hydraulically fracturing the rock, but is capable of 10,000+ as shown . Blasting permits don't seem to be a problem, the white ripamonti carrier was used to build niches in RR tunnels; remote controlled, drill the hole, put the breaker in the hole, No explosives, stand a couple feet and crack.
I see the big difference from the early part of the video to the short clip at the end with the more refined machine. Do you have any more info?
That's looks awesome and interesting. Just wondering what is the size of that machine. Do you have any information regarding on it?
There is a website pertaining to it, www.capprex.com , I'll see if I can get permission to post some pictures of the Volvo up on Monday, she's pretty!
Amazing technology, something new for a change. Is this upscaleable so it might be used for tunneling or raises? Is it dependent on the type of rock? The only limitation I see is that for tunneling, you would have to pull out and clean up the floor occasionally. If you could combine this machine with a continuous mucker and automate it, I think you would have something which is really a game changer.
To me (someone who lives/works in rock country) that looks promising. It appears to be a pretty effective tool, especially considering that it can be carried on a mini-excavator. The type of rock in the video, and the technologies effectiveness on rocks of different hardness, would be critical information in determining the units over all effectiveness. Another thing that occurred to me is that the safety of the unit, when expelling the energy, can be tricky as some parts of rock can be weaker than others, which may result in some fragments being displaced much farther than others, without any warning to the operator, or bystanders. It certainly looks promising.
Interesting indeed. Along with other comments that have been made I am curious about the shock load on the machine and carrier, and what life expectancy there would be.
From what I hear from the heads rock hardness is a major part with the foam mix ratios and pressures to be used, we can do full water shots as well. Testing is imperative especially as the machines react differently, and yes time is a major test. For example I had make a separate cooling system for the booster, that brings regular compressed air (compressor/tank is on their too) to those pressures, as previously we used the carriers cooling system...along with its gunk...so you can imagine the corrosion and build ups. The setting would be Mining and tunneling with it as well as civil application, for when that boulder rolls into the road, taking down cement foundations, or making a hole for a foundation, no anfo needed. A cool side note is they are theorizing how to not only break but use lower pressures to propagate cracks in a rock wall to make ripping it afterwards more productive. With the price as well, you could have multiples working with other machinery or even together. On the business side though we need someone to see theses possibilities and has the capabilities to mass produce machines instead of the one/two we put together for specific applications. OoO yes Norite automation is the ultimate goal, the compact excavator we are assembling now is set for one operator, so close. Dgodgr im concerned too but they've set my next task, a plexiglass shield for cab windows as pieces that could make it there are small... not questioning the boss hehe. Oxbow yep trying to find someone who wants rock broken but with no timeframe, tall task.
Those are my thoughts as well. Interesting concept, I like the idea. This would be so much faster than a breaker in places where blasting is not an option.
Ok I see now the first time I saw vid on the other post I thought it was the finished machine my goof as I didn't think it would hold up long
CM amusingly i used the factory breaker hydraulic/electrics to run the drill hammer and man we have 20-25 lines going down the boom but kept real tight. No worries hatch, my bad I figured I should start a new thread with it to answer posts. Stoaked you guys like it, my jaw dropped when I saw what I got to be working with. The biggest thing sadly is this patent could be bought then swept under the rug...so I had to show you hehe.
Is the foam petro-chemical based?
Nope, good ol' water, Guar Gum and a few sulfates. Dump the stuff in the yard "eco." Mathwise breaking the rock uses a tenth of the energy then to drill the hole.
Pictures didn't load sorry
I was wrong lexan not plexiglass so "bulletproofed" (almost)
Some numbers showing the immediacy of pressure application in a hole simulator, and slow drop after a fracture due to foam propagating the pressure through the "crack." rock being innumerably weaker in tension then compression, you can imagine 4500PSI is plenty to "pull" it from the wall/ground
Good to see ya still at it
There is very tough rock out there. Upwards of 10,000 psi. Would this be effective on that type of rock given that it is only putting out what looks like 5,500 psi? I'm not a physicist but, in my layman thinking, I would think that the fracturing pressure would have to be higher than the rock psi and whatever it took to displace the rock too (superseding the weight of the mass being moved).
Cheers, i thought so as well, smart bosses "We are exposing rocks tensile weakness", by inserting our "syringe" and pulling it. Unconfined compressive strength: Granite 100-250 MPa Basalt 100-300 MPa (300MPa=43,511 PSI) Quartzite 150-300 MPa Sandstone 20-170 MPa Shale 5-100 MPa as opposed to Tensile strengths: Granite 7-25 MPa (25MPa=3625PSI) Basalt 10-30 MPa (30MPa=4351PSI!!!) Gneiss 5-20 MPa Quartzite 10-30 MPa Sandstone 4-25 MPa Shale 2-10 MPa Limestone 5-25 MPa Marble 15 MPa.
Has this machine been tested on concrete?
Yep, and concrete has very low tensile strength(700psi) must have been easy work at low pressure
Here is a new video of recent tests in Steamboat Springs, first person view compilation. Rock was very tough homogeneous glacial boulder needing around 6.5k PSI to break https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E00A8FB6BCA55FC9!109&authkey=!AP3cRLcdv2ZhWfM&ithint=video%2c.wmv
Looking good Niall, liked the vids
Impressive!
we have found little hurdles Ideas! when setting up for drilling/indexing/sliding breaker in, so nothing moves, it is tough to originally set the "stinger" having to move the entire machine, so either a feed tray under the "indexer" or replacing boom with a manlift boom to use its extension(yet won't work in certain directions, and I'm not 100% on weight capabilities if horizontal(knowledge appreciated) ideas for getting to fit in a hole? design/build shorter cab?(are there legality issues with customizing bodies of machines regarding MSHA? more then a bigger fire extinguisher ), dissassemble/reassemble? pop the tires? what are some of your tricks? just a big machine, speaking of: anyone in CO area with a mine lets chat!
Niall why not put a mast on it like a conventional hydraulic drill with hydraulic feed wouldn't have to be as long could shorten it up and make it as long as needed
All I know, Is that we invited you to come down from Steamboat. I have plenty of large rock. I'll stick with drilling and feathering. Show me something better. If you are planning on cutting your teeth on the western slope, you may want to think about it. Sorry, CD On EDIT. We will mobe you from Steamboat To Glenwood Springs. Let's see if your machine can break 6' footer's
Niall Check out a rock drill like an IR ECM 370 to get an idea of the movements you would like to have. You may even be able to adapt the whole guide assembly from one, though I imagine you would want to shorten it some. It doesn't look like you need 14' of travel like that drill. Also, incorporate some feet into the base to grab the rock when you push against it so when you retract the drill and rotate to the injection unit the whole thing will stay in position. One other idea would be to adapt your head unit to a complete drill rig with the extendable boom and all of the guide functions already built so you do not need to reinvent the wheel. I may be too far away from you, but I have a complete IR ECM 370 you could use for a prototype. I do like the mobility of the little Volvo you have it on now though. Maybe some combination of that for a carrier and the IR guide? I would love to see it work, as there may be some good opportunities near here.
HE- mmmm i gotcha, still torn though because our injection unit is not exactly light but like you say thinking about putting the indexing tray(feeding assembly) on its own short feed, cause right now the indexing tray is directly on that helac (mast?) Cheers CD yea I brought you up to the guys but didn't get a bite, the rock in the last video was around 8x8 so i'd love to see it got to town on a good pile (different data then sensors). I'll keep pushing! I think since that broke though its about going in the hole to show it off to get picked up, you know, toe shots, shots while utilities are up, confined facework JDOF thanks for the offer! looking at it good, that IR is very similar to a ripamonti they used as a carrier, no quide though. Yea I'm the hand that helps try not to reinvent the wheel and i like that action! especially adding a helac at the end (admitedly smaller) and that boom length looks to extend too?. sweet foot grappling idea definately bringing that up About the Volvo... lets say feed assembly pointing left, drilling, the drill extension piston is forceful enough to push assembly/boom back and try to rotate the house clockwise. So we have reduced pressure delivered from the spool of its valve(not restricted flow)...works... but we wanna drill faster! what I'm asking is, can my slew drive motor hold the house better? should i be thinking this because apparently I shouldn't even slew dirt(volvo manual)? or do you guys think any firmness gain from stiffening the whole action would be lost by the dang tires anyway (there is a blade, but you know)?
Niall The slew drive on any excavator, especially a small one like the Volvo you have, is not up to resisting the force applied to the end of the boom. For this reason, it would be better to try to set up the drilling so that it is pushing inline, and not sideways. I am sure you thought of that already though. That said, I know that due to access limitations on many jobs, you don't always get to pick what is the best angle for the machine to drill from. On the IR drill I have the boom slewing motion is done with a hydraulic cylinder, so there is no drift at all, but there is rotational movement of the whole machine, as well as slight deflection in the boom when drilling at a high feed pressure. It is worse when the boom is extended. It has about a 4 foot extension. For your foot grapple, maybe some 1/2" bolts through a plate, with the ends ground into points, and maybe 2" long, give or take. I would do 4 or 5 in a box pattern, maybe with one in the center. This is "borrowed" from the layout on the foot of the IR I have. Back to the little Volvo. Does it have a built in swing brake? If so, is it functioning correctly? Can you add some kind of ring to the rotec and put a supplemental brake on it to hold the swing? Just some ideas for you to think about. I would love to see your little toy in action someday.
I would bet that there is a swing brake built into the top of the swing motor like most, if not all, other excavators. This might be something to look at modifying, or improving. It has already been mentioned that end users will inevitably find themselves in a situation where they will need to drill "against the swing". Many will do this just to save from repositioning the machine. I would consider it a given and try to engineer a machine capable of withstanding such demands. Modification of the OE swing motor is possible but I doubt it will be as cost effective as trying to modify a larger swing motor to fit the smaller machine (assuming it has the room to fit a larger swing motor). The swing brake is very much like a clutch and more braking power can be obtained with one, or a combination of, at least three methods: 1) Use a stronger spring in the brake. The swing brake of an excavator is default set to be on. Once the operator engages the swing motor, hydraulic pressure is diverted to a piston which will override the spring of the brake, thus allowing movement from the motor. When the operator centers the lever, this pressure drops, the spring begins to override the pressure, and the brake is applied. With that in mind, one may have to increase the pressure to the piston, or increase the surface area of the piston, to override a stronger spring. 2) Increase the amount of discs in the brake pack, which will increase the surface area that creates the friction, thus effectively increasing braking power. 3) Increase the size of the discs in the brake pack, also effectively increasing braking power. Since the brake pack is inside the housing of the OE swing motor it may be difficult to modify (may require significant machining). Even if you can get any of the above modifications done, hydraulic engineering will likely be required to get any sort of precise control of the swing function. It is certainly possible, but it may be difficult. Another much more crude option has just occurred to me. One could possible use a manual stop mechanism like those used on articulated equipment for transportation purposes (drop the pin through the round hole). I would imagine that one could even accomplish engagement with a solenoid. Obviously this would have limited possible rotational location (clocking) options, when compared to the swing brake options, but might involve a lot less engineering to accomplish. We've all heard the old adage, "Keep it simple stupid" (or KISS). When I say "we" I am, of course, excluding any, and all, politicians and it seems heavy equipment/automotive engineers as of late.
According to the brochure this machine does have a swing brake, which surprises me, many mini-ex's don't just the motor holding on the lock valve. That being said, if the stock brake won't hold with the work you're doing, it's an endless chain of modifications to try and improve it, as the gear teeth on the rotek bearing are only going to take so much, there's always going to be a weak link. Best thing would be to have plate sections machined in a circle to bolt under the bearing if there's room, mount one or two brake calipers under the house to lock things down when you're drilling. But that's just my opinion.
That is along the lines of what I was thinking. A ring mounted to the carbody, and a caliper mounted to the house. It could even be a cable operated brake, but an automatic hydraulic one plumbed into the regular swing brake would be pretty neat, but a lot more work.
Hey, sorry for the delay! thank you so much for the knowledge, pointed me right where I should be looking. Dgo, thank you! made reading the schematic much clearer, and yea we ll hopefully go simple Jdof and LANx, sweet idea, weren't too hot on it, but I'm keeping it on the board. hey colorado digger, bringing you up thinking we should have a competition between the techniques, and if you hear of any face work or digging foundation lets say, in massive solid rock where we may be able to test tunneling techniques (the game changer) let me know We'll work with it as it works now(ain't broke don't fix it) and I guess another carrier is just that, I selfishly like the Volvo though. , Niall Ps: auto save saved the post perfect thanks techs. Dang battery
I see you guys are coming along. I inquired about one of your system several years ago. Also most of the hydraulic cylinders will need load valves so the drilling position does not drift while drilling. I wonder how it would work here on the east coast. tomorrow I will back on a rock job in NJ. It is Basalt very dense fine grain rock. In most areas I have to run a min of 2 Darda splitters to start to get the rock to open up.
Cheers, yea they have been up down some recent pics Its my bosses invention, not so good at marketing, but im trying, because yea this should market itself but it needs to get out there.
There was something similar used in my hometown where holes were drilled in to hard Canadian Shield (mostly granite) and some kind of foam was put in that supposedly worked in other places (I'm thinking softer rock like sedimentary type rock) but it hardly broke anything. In the end a blasting company was brought in with an air track and they blasted the basement in a couple of small shots. Have you guys tried using your technology in the Great White North? People have tried using conventional concrete breakers here without much success so it would be interesting to see how it would fair in some of the toughest rock conditions in Canada and the U.S.
They have worked in canada but doing tunneling&mining detail work, and i believe there are still 2 of the white (first post) machines cracking away Big market wise here's the thing, they are facing some variability that just isn't quantifiable, thus results from the shop simulator can only be translated subjectively in the field. It is still so young of an idea, but quite game changing I think. The current attempts to reduce fly rock(though I believe it is already negligible) by reducing air charge creating the foam, is not proving too to well. I like the idea, but in the operator shoes, I want the rock to break, first shot, first try, and leave the adjustability to me? Well that's staying at the comfortable "full" then. Staying cranking away though, busy simplifying my spaghetti and cleaning hasty mockups from the quick build into something workable. Keep you posted.