Hi fellas, Just registered, but have lurked for a while. I've been researching CTLs and do not have any experience with any tracked machines. I live near Chattanooga, Tn and we have about every kind of dealer here. Unfortunately, I'm so busy during the week that I'm not afforded the time to make the drive into town before they close and, only the Takeuchi guy is open on Saturday. I have a horse farm as a second job and plan to use this piece of equipment moving hay, consolidating brush piles, brush cutting sloped areas and digging out the side of a hill for a pistol range. So far, I've, only, looked at a TL230 with remaining factory warranty till 12/13, C/H/A with 230 hrs. and toothed bucket for 38K. Tomorrow I am going to look at a, privately owned, open cab JCB 1110T with 1300 hrs. This JCB had new tracks put on at 1000 hrs., comes with 78 in. Bradco construction grapple, pallet forks, non-toothed bucket and a Versatech rake for 20K. I had never seen a JCB till I saw the man's ad, eventhough there is a dealer near by and have read a lengthy, unflattering thread here about the older machines. The more I read, the more confused I become, lol. My wife wants me to buy a new ( ie. warrantied ) machine with a cab. In short order, I would like to know your opinion of the two machines/deals above and/or input on what would be the best new machine for my application. TIA, Duke Rangers Lead The Way
It all would come down to how much you want to spend. 40K for a CTL that your going to use around the horse farm seems like a lot to me but I am sure your on top of that. Considering your pondering spending this kind of money, personally I would take a day off and investigate your options a little more. Standard warranty on these is typically only a year, so the warranty, while nice may not be worth the money if you can find a really clean used machine ( considering the light duty work you have in mind). Between these two, TK builds a fine machine, JCB at least the older ones that so much but spending an additional 20K may not pay for your application. PS. Graduated Ranger School class 11-91
Man, everyone must be out at a hoe-down :cool
Hooah KSSS, you were, evidently, typing while I was trying to post my poor attempt at humor. Thanks for the response and you may be correct about the cheaper machine for my farm application. I am planning on buying some more land to build a horse person's campground, so to speak. Will be cutting some riding trails which might require heavier equipment. Is the JCB a good buy, IYO? Thanks for your service. Never got my chance at Ranger School, before I got hurt and medically discharged. Went through RIP and was at 1st Batt at Hunter. Duke
SVL75........Have one of those and 3 TL150s. Visibility out of the Kubota is tremendously better than out of my TL150s.
If you plan to "clear trails", you may want to consider hyd capabilities(high flow brush hog, etc, etc)?? It sounds to me you have the money to spend on a CTL, if your already comfortable with the prices you mentioned.?. Personally, I've never been overly impressed with Taks hyd performance over some of the other big name machines of comparable size (Case, Cat, Bobcat)...but I do think they are a good solid machine that will move material as well as any, and have proven their performance in the larger excavating outfits. JCB is oddball, I wont recommend one. I think the presence of them in the market speaks for itself, along with the majority of threads you will find here discussing them. Dealer support may be something you should make the effort to get a feel for. If your spending that kind of money, don't you think you should make the time to visit the local dealers? FWIW, I recently played around in a new Bobcat T590. Very nice machine, imo.
Thanks fellas. I will definitely be checking out some other machines. My wife has been doing some leg work for me and went to the Bobcat dealer. He suggested a T650 at 53.4K vs. the T590 at 48.5K. The Kubota looks interesting, but I don't know anything about them. Does the Kubota SVL75 perform as good as the TL230? I can get a new TL230 with cab, ac, and heat for 45K.
I agree with TK's lower hyd. performance historically, however on the newest machines I think that has been addressed. I ran a Kubota 75 against several other machines during an OEM comparision event. I was not impressed. I have to think the 90 is a better machine, but the 75 did not impress me. I own a 2012 CASE TR320. I am very happy with this machine. I also ran the smaller TR270 at the same event earlier mentioned and I was very impressed with it as well. I would not buy a pre2011 JCB, unless you got an incredible deal on it. I personally would search like Iron Planet, internet or shop auction sales and try and find a gem at good price. Spending that kind of money on a new CTL that wont be making you money directly doesn't seem like a great idea, certainly you could use the money else where. You could buy a decent used CTL and a mini ex for the same 50K you would spend on the Bobcat CTL. Again not trying to tell you how to spend your money, just offering suggestions.
Is your TR320 an open or closed cab and what did it run price wise? Also, what sold you on this machine over the other ones. I've been doing some reading around the forum and you seem togo to a lot of these events trying stuff out.
It was priced in the mid 50's. Its got an enclosed cab and two high flow systems. What sold me was the power, the comfort of the cab and I liked the control system. Its just a really comfortable, productive machine to run. I only compared the CAT 279C and the TR320 when I was buying. Both machines had their pluses and negatives, but considering everything including price, the CASE seemed the better machine, so far, I am happy with my decision.
Two high flow systems? What do you use this for? I'm going to check one of these out. What about the Cat 299d XHP? Also is there any differences in the year models of the TRs? All the # changes can get confusing, especially with the Cats.
dukeyjoe: Last fall I decided to buy a SSL or CTL for use on my property. I was looking in the 60 hp class in order to keep the weight & size down, because I have grass & wet conditions, & I wanted to use it in the winter for snow. I gave up looking at used equipment, because everything I could find was beat pretty bad, & I didn't want to spend most of my time re-building the machine. I'm not a mechanic by trade, I'm a retired Civil Engineer/Computer Systems Mgr. So, I looked pretty hard at a new Cat, Deere, Case, New Holland, JCB, Kubota. Keep in mind that I already have a 2005 New Holland/Kobelco EH80 CS excavator with hydraulic thumb & wide steel tracks (about 825 hrs) that I love. Early on I dismissed the Kubota CTL's, as they were more hp & $ than I was ready for. They did look nice, though, & I liked the slide up door (unique). But I've since heard that by design the Kubota CTL's will not counter-rotate the tracks?? JCB quickly became my first choice because of the beautiful & unique side-entry cab!! But they stopped selling the small frame units in Q4 2012 because of boom alignment problems as near as I can tell. The large frame units were OK, because the booms were line-bored, which I understand is now the case with the small units as well. The Cats I looked at were all MTL's using the ASV suspended track under carriage. All those units were (& still are) B models. The B model cabs were not great & I didn't like them. I have since looked at other wheeled Cats that are C models, & the C cabs & overall design are MUCH nicer. The Deere units turned me off because of the removable side panels on the engine compartment, which were hard to remove, didn't bolt on & felt like they would just rattle. And Deere sales weren't very friendly. That left Case & New Holland, which are essentially the same machine...they are made in the same factory in Witchitaw, KS., they have the same cabs (except Case uses a restraint bar & NH uses a shoulder belt), & there are slight differences in their boom linkage & rear tower design. NH only uses vertical lift (they pioneered it with their super boom), whereas Case offers both radial lift & the vertical lift they got from NH. They both offer optional high-flow hydraulics & optional high-pressure hydraulics. They also have the longest wheelbases in the industry, which translates into stability. I wound up buying a NH L220 (60 hp, vertical lift, see my signature below for other options) with rubber over the tire tracks from Camoplast. The OTT's were much less expensive & more maintenance free than the MTL track system. I also have the best relationship with the NH dealer of any of them. In an upcoming thread I plan on listing the minor improvements I've made (& CNH could make) to the L2xx line, but I still love my L220. But after owning/using it through the winter, including in the woods, for a while now, I have the following feelings: Getting in & out of a SSL/CTL is the worst & most dangerous thing about them...especially when it's wet. If you work alone, like me, then you'll likely have lots of reasons to get in/out often. And you can't get in/out when the boom is half up, unless you take the front door off. Because of that I still dream of the side-entry JCB!! Two of the best (& unique) things about my NH is the rear drawbar (to which I have added 2" receiver hitch tubes), & the boom up restraint pins which are operated from within the cab, as opposed to the typical external safety strut on other machines. These 2 features should be shared by Case. If you will be running ANY rotary attachments (like mover, brush cutter, etc.), absolutely get the optional high flow hydraulics, & you might consider the optional high pressure hydraulics as well. Even though you think you don't need it, one of the most useful & cheaper attachments you should consider is a set of pallet forks. In addition to moving around the obvious, you can move your other attachments around quickly without hooking them up. Even though my OTT's allow me to go where a wheeled machine wouldn't dare, & work well in snow, my ground contact pressure is still about 5 psi. That's still pretty rough on turf. To do any better, consider a CTL with the wide 17" tracks with a non-agressive turf tread. For example, a heavier, 74hp JCB 260T has a contact pressure of only 3.9 psi. If you consider Cat, only look at C class (or better) machines. If you will be using an auger in the future, consider a vertical lift machine for the straight vertical lift path that doesn't require moving to keep the auger plumb. Even the best CTL is a poor dozer & a terrible excavator. If you can, get at least a small excavator to supplement the CTL. Here is a pic of my L220 at work this past winter...
The machine has a typical high flow system with around 36 gpm and 3050 psi and an enhanced high flow with 34 gpm and 4000 psi. I have forestry mulcher that takes a lot of power and flow to run. The newest CASE machines have the latest updates to the EH control system. You would want to ask a salesman on the VIN number break on the machines with the generation 3 EH updates. Mine is gen 2 and I like it but I think they made some console updates that I think would be helpful and made some controllability updates so I was told.
StumpyWally, Thanks for the informative post and that's a nice looking machine. You and KSSS have got me thinking now about getting a mini-excavator, as well as a CTL. I will have to give that some thought. Not sure how much I would use it, but I do have a few ponds on the place. Can a low flow brush cutter be used on one? If I were to get both, it would compel me to look, only in the used market. Back to the CTL dilemma. Vertical vs. radial lift patterns? Advantages and disadvantages? PSI would have been more important, prior to the lake being dug, because all that ground was nothing but mushy saw grass and springs. Guess low PSI would help not tear up the pasture, as well, but is digging traction sacrificed with low PSI? Sounds like you, really, considered the JCBs. I know they are an oddball, but I like the side entry and yes, I'm always by myself in the woods and back acreage.There is a JCB dealer close, but I don't know how easy they will be to deal with. They have a used 2008 1110T w/ new engine and 800 hrs listed on their website for $50K. What do you think about the deal on the JCB I listed in the OP? I know it's not the New Generation machine and it doesn't have a cab, but it's only 20K. I was planning to go look at it today, but am indecisive. He, supposedly, has another guy wanting it on Monday and I'm afraid that if I go try it out that I will buy it, lol. He is a big JCB fan and told me to try a JCB whether I buy his or not. Pics of this machine below. Is this the big framed machine that were line bored? Thanks for the insights. Do you have any pics of the 4 pt lift? What was it's cost?
KSSS, thanks again for the reply. I looked at the Cases a bit last night. I'll keep gen 2 vs. gen3 in mind if I buy new. TR vs. TV = lift pattern?
dukeyjoe: As to CASE TR vs. TV, yes, "R" = radial lift & "V" = vertical lift. As to a low flow brush cutter on a mini-ex, I would think that any brush cutter on a CTL would work better, but I don't have any direct experience with either. Search this HEF for posts/treads on this subject....I recall seeing some recently on this subject. Radial lift = best for pushing & digging (stronger), somewhat more reach at mid-height (for loading/unloading pallets)....Vertical lift = constant reach at all heights (great for augering), usually higher overall reach (for loading dump trucks). I have heard that most SSL's/CTL's being sold are chosen with vertical lift. As to ground contact pressure, I suspect that a lower contact pressure does sacrifice some digging traction, but I think MUCH more important are track pattern & machine balance or weight distribution. Consider that Takeuchi CTL's have traditionally been the strongest diggers, & they are designed from the ground up as a CTL, with a more solid undercarriage like a dozer (Takeuchi originated the CTL). Most other manufacturers put a CTL undercarriage on their otherwise designed SSL. And track pattern...The typical lug style (as shown in your photo of the JCB Robot) will have better traction in firm ground than the smoother styles, but they are hell on turf!! Also, consider that all SSL/CTL's have very little ground clearance, typically 8" to 9", so it doesn't take much to belly them out & hang them up if the ground is soft or their contact pressure is too high for the ground conditions. Pardon the pun, but if you can't stay "afloat" with your CTL, you're "sunk". And who...or what... is going to pull you out?? An exception is the Terex/ASV, which typically have a ground clearance of 10" to 12", but they are substandard in so many other ways (mainly in the spartan cab), that I would consider them only as a specialty machine for limited purposes. Having said that, they do have a fully suspended track undercarriage (Cat uses it on their MTL's), which gives them by far the best ride & floatation, & with the right turf track, the best performance on turf & snow. The suspension system allows the track to conform to the ground. Think tank undercarriage for gun stability. But that suspension system can be high & expensive maintenance if not cleaned regularly, if run a lot on pavement or stone, or otherwise misused, As to the JCB Robot, I've never actually seen one, but I understand the newer generation JCB's are MUCH improved, & simplified. For example, the new ones use standard flat-faced O-ring hydraulic connections, whereas the older "Robot" & its generations used some British standard. I would only consider the Robot if it was a REALLY good deal, & you knew all the facts before committing, & the JCB dealer was reasonably close & friendly. Contact some of the JCB users in the JCB thread on this HEF, for example, like Dave Esterns ( I don't know if the Robot arm hinge was line bored or not, or if it is small or large frame. I only have info on the new ones as follows: Small frame JCB CTL = 150T radial, 190T vertical (same as Volvo MCT 85), 205T vertical, all have 12.6 " wide tracks Large frame JCB CTL = 225T radial, 260T vertical (same as Volvo MCT 125), 300T vertical (same as Volvo MCT 135), 320T vertical, all have 17.7" wide tracks Attached are pics of the 4-pt lift on my New Holland L220. The first view is of the front. This is the primary reason I opted for the 4-pt lift kit, to get the front attach points, for pulling & fastening stuff. This view is of one of the back lift points behind the cab. I don't consider the rear points particularly useful for me...Couldn't get just the front ones. The 4-pt lift cost about $238...yeah, I know, too much!! I hope all this info helps. I encourage you to at least go look at & drive the JCB Robot. The side entry door will at least forever change your view of CTL's. Although I never drove a JCB new generation, I early on did drive a Volvo MCT 135 (a re-branded JCB 300T). It was a bigger (92 hp, 11,200 lbs) machine than I wanted, & more expensive, but what an experience. I fell in love with it... If I had to do it all over again, I would seriously consider a JCB 260T (vertical, 74 hp, 10,690 lbs, 4.6 psi ground contact due to the 17.7" wide tracks) just to get the wide tracks. To hold the cost down, my second choice would be a JCB 190T (vertical, 59.9 hp, 8,195 lbs, 6.2 psi ground contact due to 12.6" wide tracks), but I would REALLY investigate an option to put the wide tracks on it, which could reduce its contact pressure about 40% to under 4 psi. I suspect that any of these JCB options would have cost me probably $10k to $20k more than the $48.1k (including tax & fees) for my NH L220 with Camoplast OTT. At the time, that was more $ than I wanted to spend, but everytime I get in & out of my front-door machine - & it's a lot - I dream of that JCB...
Thanks again StumpyWally, I didn't go drive the JCB today. Had a retired, high earnings, rope horse go down. He got a snake bite on the ankle and most the tissue, including part of the joint capsule has sluffed down over the coronary band on to his hoof. Since my Bobcat 773 is down with a major hydraulic leak, I may end up buying something quicker than planned, since it looks like I will be putting him down in the near future. He can still hobble around, but his prognosis is poor. We are, just, keeping him comfortable right now. Btw, that JCB in the pics is a 97 hp turbo, according to the seller's ad. I see other 1110Ts with a 94 hp rating on the equipment trader. The guy has not used it in a year and kept it indoors. He is selling cause he has cancer and has racked up some medical bills. Looking into the Cases, as well. Also, spoke with the salesman for Takeuchi and that "loaded out" 2011 TL230 with c/ac/h with 238 hrs. can be bought for 34K with a toothed bucket. It's warranty goes out in December 13, but he says I can buy an extended one. It has reg flow hydraulics. He, also, sells a reg flow bluediamond 72" open front brush cutter for $5,900. I will, mostly be using it to dig and clear under rush up to 5-6" diameter. What say you on this deal? Anyone else please chime in. TIA, Duke
I would buy something with a cab that way if brush comes flying at you it hits the glass not you.
I like the way you think RC! Wife is saying the same thing, cause I've gotten into some yellow jackets before Also, the Takeuchi TL230CR just dropped to $34,300 per the salesman. Evidently, they are changing the TL230 to a TL8 in July.
First question one needs to ask about that machine is why it has a new engine with only 800 hours.:cool2 A cab is a must if you will be running a bushhog for many reasons - dust, debris and most important the occasional yellow jacket nest that you will come across. If you are going to run a full fledged brush cutter then you need the front lexan door designed for brush cutting. A glass door will shatter if a large enough piece of debris hits it, I have busted a few in my time from other items on the job site hitting the glass.
Roger that CM. Don't know why it needed a new motor so soon. I have not talked to this dealer. My point is, if they want this much for an old machine then what are they going to want for a new one. There are plenty out there like it in the 25K range. Furthermore, my wife has decided that I'm, definitely, getting a cabbed machine, but I had considered a open cab with the lexan door, which wouldn't do anything against those evil yellow jackets.
Yea TR is Tracked Radial lift and TV is tracked Vertical lift. If you will spend most of your time between ground level and top of the cab the radial is said to be the best, if you spend most of your time from above that then the vertical lift is said to be the best for your application.
dukeyjoe: I'm very sorry to hear about your horse...in addition to a high earner, he may be a real "friend" of yours, & putting him down would hurt... I don't have any knowledgeable input on the Takeuchi TL230CR. But I will say that you should at least price new in anything you're interested in. You could be surprised...many manufacturers have incentive programs. For example, just one of the reasons I bought my NH L220 new was that NH offered 0% financing for 60 months plus a $500 reward card for NH parts & consumables. Why not work with someone else's money!!! Plus, you don't have to shell out a lot of cash up front on something used, which may have unforeseen problems that will have you working on it all the time to the exclusion of your real work. Besides, you seem to have very high WAF (wife acceptance factor) for the purchase...you said she has done some Bobcat dealer visits for you, & wants you to get a fully cabbed machine, etc. By the way, I can't imagine working in Alabama without a full cab w/ ac, & then there's the yellow jackets..., plus I fully agree that for brush cutter work you need a lexan front door, not glass, so you're not killed with flying debris doing "...5"- 6" diameter" brush.
"By the way, I can't imagine working in Alabama without a full cab w/ ac, & then there's the yellow jackets..., plus I fully agree that for brush cutter work you need a lexan front door, not glass, so you're not killed with flying debris doing "...5"- 6" diameter" brush." Well, the brush isn't that big, but I have some sweet gums that size (that I thought were oaks :Banghead) growing in my pasture that have to go. You're correct on the WAF, I'm good to go there You've got me, seriously thinking about OTTs. It may best for my application. KSSS, what do you think?
It sucks.. Done it for many years and ate about as much dust as I moved.:tong Ran OTT's for a while as well and they worked great. A CTL is better performing machine but that performance comes with a price tag and expensive maintenance over it's life. For your situation I would seriously consider OTT's. If you decide to go the OTT route, pay attention to tire pressure and tire condition. Having to inflate/repair/change a tire on a machine with OTT's is a pain in the ass.
If you want the best there is this one's built in South Dakota: http://www.mustangmfg.com/MakeTracks/Introduction.aspx http://www.mustangmfg.com/MakeTracks/Walkaround_copy1.aspx
What makes it the "Best"?
I would also be curious in hearing what makes it the "Best". A couple things that don't contribute to that title are Resale value, dealer net work, and experience building CTL's. Branding someone elses doesn't count. I would buy a machine with a cab. When you factor entire cost of the cab (purchase, depreciation and resale value) its well worth the money. Especially on the newest machines that have pressurized cabs. I run OTT on my 465 when I am mulching, usually I put McLaren airless tires on so I don't have issue with flats, which really do suck with OTT. I like them, if you don't plan on working on asphalt or concrete they could be a cheaper substitute for a CTL.
There website is probably the worst I've seen. Maybe they are busy building good machines. I'm a fan of Takeuchi. I'm looking at the TL10 now.
Aside from visibility all the way around, another "KEY" factor, in my choices to buy Takeuchis and Kubotas, was the flip up and store front window, akin to most excavator front windows. To the best of my knowledge, only Kubota and Takeuchi offer this much appreciated feature. The swing out door is an absolute PITA. Wanna be sealed in, leave the window down. Wanna go al fresco, leave it open. My earliest Takeuchi TL150 has a swing out door, and, it truly is a PITA, and has had durability and switch issues, but, I have had it for 11 years now (and 5000 hours). My 248B rubber tire machine also has a swing out door, and, again, a royal PITA for ingress/ egress and visibility.
Duke, That machine is actually 92HP gross, and has a Perkins engine. Should net out at about 82 HP. ROC of an 1110T JCB is about 2450lbs rated at 35% tipping load. I'll say this about the older CTLs, and I think you will find it consistent with my other posts on HEF. If you don't require 2spd, enclosed cab, or some of the other cushy bells and whistles, the 1110T can be a decent machine for a lot of people and generally had at a fair price. They had good power, decent hydraulics, and the side entry/safety. Yes, they do use BSP fittings, but any competent hydraulic shop should have them, or at least be able to get them in a timely fashion. If you have a local JCB dealer, I would also think that they should stock common sizes and be able to make such hoses. Do check the bogey wheels and idlers. While the drive motors were not a source for concern, JCB did use another supplier before switching to Berco undercarriage parts, and we did see some pre-mature failures on older machines. An easy check is to simply use the bucket of the machine to raise the front off the ground, so that the machine is resting on the rear idler and then go around and try and turn the bogeys by hand. They should be firm, but you should be able to turn them. If they don't turn, or are hanging loose, they are shot. This is a good idea no matter what brand of CTL you are looking at. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Takeuchis are also constructed with BSPP, BSPT and Metric DIN light series fittings.
You're speaking Chinese! Please explain, is this a positive or negative. Also, what is a H pattern vs. pilot
Chinese???? No, British. British Standard Pipe Parallel (BSPP), British Standard Pipe Tapered (BSPT), and metric hose fittings are not necessarily more expensive than National Pipe Thread, SAE parallel pipe thread, JIC, ORFS, or SAE flared fittings, BUT, they are not as commonplace among many hydraulic hose shops, meaning that if you do not have a well-stocked hose shop nearby, many hose failures will result in additional down time, due to having to have the fittings shipped in. In my region, I have several very well stocked, and knowledgeable, hose repair shops, and, it doesn't hurt that I have my own Parker hose machine and suitable, for my fleet, inventory on hand. Even Caterpillar's "Cat Flange" hose ends can be rare to find in stock, as well as Komatsu's own metric flare connections. I would not let hose end styles stop you from buying a machine.
I believe by this they are referring to the control pattern.
It's hard to decide which way to go. Too many choices. When I decided to buy a ctl for my farm I had never even sat in one. My primary need was clearing scrub along fenceline and regrowth in paddocks as well as grading roads and having the ability to lift heavy objects. I started looking on the internet and in trade magazines but still couldn't make up my mind so I drew up a short list of the features I thought were necessary for the job. 1) Comfort...You sit in these things for hours at a time so you need a comfortable cab. Air/cond and heat and joystick controls ( iso ). 2) Lifting capacity....I decided on a min 3000lb. 3) Weight....When your pushing/clearing scrub weight is your friend. The heavier the better. 4) Maintenance...Tractors never break down on the dealer doorstep. My previous experience at the farm has taught me if it breaks you will probably need to fix it yourself in the middle of the bush. Track gear had to be simple to maintain. The simpler the better. 5) Ground clearance...Working in the bush you need good ground clearance. I went to a earthmoving trade show and sat in every skid steer they had there. I was able to make on the spot comparisons and came away with a short list of brands I liked and then compared them to my wish list. I ended up with a good used Takeuchi TL150 which I purchased in Canada and had shipped to Australia. So far so good.
Phil, How do you like your Tak? What do you think about the deal I mentioned on the 2011 Tak TL230CR with 250 hrs and factory warranty till Dec 13 for 34K?
I'm very happy with the Tak. The TL230 sounds real good . I wouldn't buy it if it didn't have an air cab though. You dump a bucket of dirt without a door or work in a dry dusty paddock and you'll know what I mean. Somebody here has already mentioned the dangers of working in scrub without a door. Taks have the lift up door not the swing out door which I think is a plus. The difference in the two control patterns is that on the H pattern , Case control pattern?, your left joystick controls your left track ( forward and reverse ) and the lift arm up and and down. Your right joystick controls your right track ( forward and reverse ) and your bucket. The other pattern , as used on the Tak, the left joystick controls all movement of the machine and the right joystick controls all movement of the arms and bucket. With the H pattern to go straight forward you need to push both joysticks forward. Reverse both back. To go left or right you just ease up on the left or right stick. With the Tak you have the advantage of either pattern . You just swap a couple of hose around. Mine had the case pattern and I've swapped it back to original. The Case pattern for me was a PIT. If you let go of one joystick to scratch your nose or swat a fly you immediately change direction. Taks also have hydraulic control joysticks not electric over hydraulic. Regards...........Phil
Thanks Phil, That TL230 does have cab, heat and air. I can, also, buy an extended factory warranty past the original. So far, I haven't been able to find a better deal on a CTL. I am considering getting a SSL and putting OTT on it. I think that setup may offer some versatility in applications, as I could remove the tracks when they are not needed.
I'm not experienced enough to give you advice on the pros and cons of ctl over ssl but I would be buying the TL230.
Thanks for the replies! I may have missed the boat on the TL230CR. It was rented by a fella that just got two more jobs and he may be buying it. The salesman told him that it had been quoted to me and then said the first guy to pull the trigger gets it. I expect the other fella to buy it, cause I'm not without demoing it and that doesn't look to be happening. Back to square one it seems :Banghead
Also there is a control pattern im pretty sure its on bobcat only where the left stick controls left drive and right stick control right drive. and two foot pedals control lift and bucket tilt.
i love my deere i have a john deere 333d bought new w cab heat, air love it especially if u get in a bees nest just keep working ive hit some before and just keep going and if you get a lot of dust cabs help
A advantage of this could be that you could get a all wheel steer skidsteer.
So you can use OTTs with an AWS skid steer, as long as it is in skid steer mode????
I would assume so in skidsteer mode.
Properly fed and maintained, I wouldn't be afraid of a 4k hour TL150. 2 of mine are there. Sure, we've had some issues, BUT, they have been TONS more durable than the 864H's that they replaced. The 3rd one has around 3k hours. Looking on machinery trader, they're still asking over $20k for machines the same as mine. I was offered, by 2 dealers (Takeuchi and Kubota), $14k for my 3k hour, EROPS, 2001 unit. No reason to get rid of it other than it's an early unit with the PITA swingout door.
I went through a similar decision process recently, but wanted a new machine. I analyzed and tried several different models, including a jd333d. In the end, I purchased a Tak TL12. The machine is by far the best at pushing and digging. Its build quality is superior, no cheap plastics or thin metal sheets inside or out. The controls and quick-tach are hydraulic. I wanted to go with a different brand as the nearest Tak dealer is 1.5 hours away but my impression and experience of others would not allow me to choose and be happy with anything else.
Thanks for your input. I am still trying to get that TL 230 to demo. I played around the parking lot in a TL12. Awesome machine which I would love, but more machine than I need, really. I will say that I will have to get use to the controls. I was herky jerky driving that thing at low speed. I rearranged my schedule this afternoon and am going to a couple of dealers to try some things out.
dukeyjoe: A TL12 is brand new & about 109 hp....that's a BIG CTL...did you just win the lottery??
No StumpyWally, no lottery winner here, but it's sooooo purdy!
I've got a TL230 that I've had some time to play around with now that it quit snowing and raining and so far I'm pretty happy with it. The most I've done with it so far is spread 30,000lbs of asphalt grindings, move palletized material and a few junk cars. My grapple bucket should hopefully be done tomorrow and once I get some time with that I can give a better report of how I like the machine. I bought it used from a friend who used it for clearing brush and hardscaping work. He replaced it with a TL12 for the sole reason of needing a larger machine. What I like about my machine: Simple, easy to maintain Tough little sucker and can lift far more then the 1900lbs at 35% it's listed at. (my most has been a 3500lb Chevy Venture van lifted onto my gooseneck with a 34" deck height.) Smooth hydraulics, controls feel good and minimal effort to move. Compact with good visibility. Track design offers easy clean out. What I don't like: The door freaking rattles like crazy. I'm going to try and replace the gas struts and see if that helps. I wish it had a little more hydraulic power when really being pushed to the limit prying on something or lifting heavy items. I'm used to wheeled machines that will try and tip themselves over before the hydraulics go into relief vs the tak getting the back end light then not having any more lifting power. Won't fit through a 7' tall door. Other thoughts in a perfect world: 3 spd option. Mostly for picking up hay bales, save some time chasing between bales if it would go say 10-12mph vs the 7mph it currently goes. I realize this option would probably get abused when trying to turn, run on uneven surfaces, pavement, etc and cause more damage then time it would save. Better visibility from the cab with the arms half way up. The deck on my gooseneck trailer is just the right height that I can't see very well when hooking up to my bucket/forks/etc that is sitting on the deck. The gigantic step/ arm cross member is blocking a majority of my visibility. I think as I spend more time in the machine I'll notice the lack of visibility less. 2900lb pallet of calcium http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t115/MarkM13/WP_000264_zpsa1c56073.jpg 3400lb chevy venture van http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t115/MarkM13/V__03E5_zpsb00fa4c2.jpg
Thanks Mark. Feel free to keep me updated on your thoughts.
Well, the TL230 was brought out to the farm today for me to demo. It's got 250 hrs. on it and looks to be in good shape. Sales guy says tracks are 80%. I think they have more wear, but I admit that I don't know how to judge that. Anyone got pics of an 80% track? One good thing is the original warranty is not through Dec 2013, but instead Sept 2014 and I can buy an extended factory warranty anytime while the original is active. Also drove a T630 and a T870 today over at the Bobcat dealer, before coming home and putting a couple of hrs. on the Takeuchi. I'm going to have to get use to those controls, if I keep it. On a side note, my wife drove the T630 and the TL230. It was her first time in any machine. I wish I had videotaped her spinning the T630 and then driving it up with her eyes all big, giving the thumbs up sign to me and the Bobcat salesman. It was hilarious and destroyed any leverage I might have in getting a better deal due to wife discontent with the purchase. I had to hold her back from signing on the dotted line, lol.
Only chance you've got is to have her drive the Tak TL230 brought to your place. And if you REALLY want problems - or leverage, depending on your point of view - have HER drive a new JCB CTL w/ the side entry!! StumpWally
Well, she's driven the Tak now. Right after the salesman left she stated that it was her turn to play in the pile of manure that I was moving around to get use to the controls. She loves that thing, even said something about getting a his and hers, lol. We are still kicking around the idea of a wheeled machine with OTTs. I spoke with the Tak salesman this a.m. and he is bringing out a new TS70V on Monday, so I can try both side by side. The TL 230 has 16 mos of it's original warranty left and the new wheel machines only have a year. The TL 230 is, actually, a 2012 with the interim Tier 4 engine, which is a lot better than a final Tier 4. Not sure what the TS70 is, but after looking at the difference between the engine compartments of Tier 3 vs. Interim Tier 4 and Final Tier 4, I ain't buying a final Tier 4.
Unlikely you will see a CTL with those kind of ground speeds. The steel cords in the belts get hot and it causes the belts come apart. ASV does not have this issue because their belts don't have steel in them, so they can go 12+.
I understand the limitations, it was more just wishful thinking in a perfect world. I'm sure hitting a bump or hole at 12mph with a rigid undercarriage would sure wake you up as well.
Well, the rain subsided yesterday and I spent most of today on the TL230 till the fuel light came on. Got 10 hrs on it before that happened. Gauge was on empty, fuel light flashing with no light bars on. To be fair, I did have the ac on the whole day. The Takeuchi brochure list fuel capacity at 19.8 gallons and fuel consumption at 2.64 gal/hr at 65% of full load. I put 10 hrs on it which comes out to 1.98 gal/hr. The sales rep is bringing me a TSV70 tomorrow and either a T630 or a T770 is coming on Tuesday, unless I buy the Tak before it leaves the farm. The Bobcats are 53k and 65k, respectively and that's not even with the 2 speed option. I, too, would like the rabbit gear to go faster. The wheel machine goes 12 mph, but I don't know if you could use the rabbit with OTTs. Does anyone know the answer to that? The wheeled machine is, actually, built by Terex. I like the Terex color scheme better and they offer a TSV/R 80. Which brand would have the higher resale?
I would not expect any kind of resale out of either the Terex or TAK version of the wheeled machine.
Just curious, but why? It's, probably, a non-issue, since the TL230 will, most likely, never leave the farm, but I would like to know your thoughts on the topic. Also, can you use the rabbit function or higher speed with the OTTs?
I've done some "rabbit" (12 mph) with my NH L220 with Camoplast rubber OTT's on flat crushed stone. Hasn't been a problem so far. StumpyWally
Do your OTTS have steel in them?
Here's some pics of the two machines I'm demoing. Really leaning towards the 2012 TL230 which is $8k less than a identically equipped TS70R and I'd still have to invest OTTs and Nu-air tires. Lots of attachments can be bought with the difference.
What about the Kubota SVL75? Is it close in price? Is there a Kubota dealer nearby?
The reason is the reception of the Terex machine has been cool to say the least. There are some obvious design oversights such as access into the cab, ports on the tilt cylinders facing up towards the bucket add to that Terex/TK are not known for wheeled skid steers. They simply will not bring the kind of resale that a well placed market leader will. I have to think that the next update to the Terex machine will be improved. I would not pull the trigger on the machine that they brought to market several years ago, but that's me. I have run high gear with OTT. Its loud, rough riding and works the machine, but you can do it.
Yes, very fine steel wires. heymccall: I head that Kubota CTL can't counter-rotate by design?? StumpyWally
I'll have to try that. I know a TL150 will counter-rotate in my shop bay. And, the Cat 277 we demo'ed a few years back would not counter-rotate. Between no counter-rotate, visibility, and the complexity of the undercarriage, we chose not to buy the 277. It had the ASV undercarriage.
Did you make a decision Dukey Joe?
The Kubotas will not counter rotate, but I really like both the SVL75 and 90. KSSS - I've never run the Case CTL's. Will they counter rotate?
Yes, I'm buying the TL230 with a 3 Blue Diamond attachments. A 72' or 78" 4 in1 bucket, an 72" Extreme Brush Cutter, and A 72" or 78" Extreme Rock Grapple. I have to decide on the sizes of the 4 in 1 bucket and the Rock Grapple by tomorrow morning. I, also, have to decide whether I want the open or closed Brush Cutter. One more decision to be made is if I should go ahead and buy an extended protection plan. The original 2 yr. warranty ends on September 28, 2014. The choices are: 1) 3yr/3000 hr Full machine for..................... $2058 (1 extra yr) 2) 4yr/4000 hr Power Train only for.............. $2315 3) 4yr/4000 hr Power Train and Hydraulic for...$3556 4) 5yr/5000 hr Power Train only for................$2646 5) 5yr/5000 hr Power Tran and Hydraulic for.....$4052 I am leaning towards #1, as I will not put that many hrs. on it and can always buy the power train / hydraulics before the 3 yrs are out. I would like everyone's input on the sizes of the attachments and the protection plans. Specifically, can the machine handle the bigger attachments. I am leaning towards the larger 4 in 1 and rock grapple and the closed brush cutter (for safety reasons).
You made a good decision with the TL230, I've got a TL130 and love it. I had a Bobcat skidsteer with the Solideal rubber tracks like stumpy is trying to sell you on, they worked good except there hard on sprockets, chains, and axle seals. The 70V I wouldn't even begin to touch or think about that since its all terex. I run a 74" dirt bucket and a 66" industrial grapple on mine. The grapples IMO your picking up heavy things so you don't want to big or wide of attachment increasing the weight. I had 78" 4n1 on a my previous bobcat but it was way to wide for a 130/230 plus I was afraid to cylinders sticking out would possible get hit.
Even though I have 3 TL150s, the SVL75 is still the "go to" machine, and we restore thousands of feet of trench line, after we install municipal sized sewer projects.
Thanks for your response. I have never used or even seen a 4 in 1 in use, but they look very versatile. I would mainly use it for spreading gravel and churt. What did you use yours for? The rock grapple would be used to clean up some ground that has been root raked by a dozer. I would also use it to move brush and clean up the aftermath of burned stump piles. I envision using it to skim across the ground with the float on and pick up any rocks prior to seeding for pasture. Thought the wider size would cut down on passes. Have you had any major expenses in repairs and if so at what hrs. did they occur? TIA, Duke
There are no issues with counter rotating with the CASE ctl..
I wasn't that crazy about a 4n1 bucket for a skidsteer I know the austrillians will say otherwise, but I came across a good deal on a Cat 4n1 and thought I'd try it out, but it didn't work for me. I prefer a regular bucket for grading and spreading rock and I went with a Bobcat Industrial grapple and did a little modifications to work like the Demo Dozer grapple, it works great for me doing demo and cleanup. As far as expenses I've got a little over 700hrs and knock on wood no problems. Personally I don't mess with extended warranties and gamble on it, with only 200-300hrs on your TL230 and you said you won't but a lot of hours on it I would save that 2K.