Let’s talk patterns for a moment. I’m not trying to start a debate on which is best or anything. Or get a general census on which is the most popular. I’m curious as to what you call the control pattern you use, and then specify the actual controls themselves. Because I’m seeing a lot conflicting results on what is what. For example, if you Google SAE and ISO control patterns. In Google images you’ll get a picture of ISO pattern and SAE pattern. Then the image right next to it you’ll have the names and pattern completely vice versa. In equipment itself, you’ll have some equipment show ISO as one pattern, and in another piece of equipment, ISO will be displayed as the opposite pattern. Some places even, they say Deere controls are excavator pattern. While CAT controls are backhoe pattern. Which is opposite of what I’ve always thought. Wikipedia itself even says SAE pattern is left stick is swing and boom, and goes on to say it’s common on CAT equipment. Which I’ve always associated CAT with SAE. But from what it says, it describes the pattern for SAE as what I’ve always known as ISO. So, for example. I’ve always ran my equipment as what I’ve known as SAE/CAT/Excavator controls. Left stick - Swing/Stick Right stick - Bucket/Boom But come to find out, that’s actually ISO pattern. So no arguing. No telling anyone that they’re wrong. Just list what you call the pattern you use. And then specify the controls for each stick.
I use My CAT excavator on the “excavator” mode. It is like you run yours. Left stick is swing and stick, right side is boom and bucket.
Cat is ISO so is Volvo and Komatsu and most others. Deere is sometimes called backhoe, we call it farmers control. Once a guy is engrained with one pattern or the other, he will usually hate the other. Then there's the weirdos, the gradall guys, they can run Cat , Deere and Gradall , their heads ain't wired right but man can they dig.
If you think you're good at running a machine, switch patterns for a day. Makes you feel like an idiot real quick
Watch me hit every thing insite with these blasted excavator controls all you kids are using these days
If you have a hard time going between the two, wait till you meet the b*****d third pattern, Gradall, ick lol I like ISO, but I'll run either, usually depends on how long I'll be on a machine and how easy it is to change pattern.
I started with SAE/backhoe style in 1995 and kept using that pattern until 2013. I went to Austria for 10 days in the Winter and worked on a project. Most of the machines were ISO without a pattern changer. I got used to ISO and when I got home I continued practicing with ISO. By Spring, I was fully converted and been that way since. Change is possible, but the conversion is hard on the ego for a while.
Only ran ISO for a few minutes at an auction checking out a machine, so weird. I don't think either pattern matters much if you get use to it it will work well. It's only when it's on a skidsteer that ISO is a detriment in how capable the machine is. Or worse, foot controls. Not sure what maniac ever thought those were a good idea.
I thought I ran SAE controls but what has been listed as ISO (boom & bucket right hand) is what I run the most. I also believe that it is more intuitive and the better choice. Many years ago, back in the early/mid 90's, I could transfer from my Hein-Warner C12 (4 stick, 2 foot pedal) to my Drott 35 (3 stick, 4 foot pedal) to my pto tractor backhoe attachment (SAE) to my PC200 (ISO) and never miss a beat on any of them. The hardest of those to learn was the ISO because it was a mirror image of the Drott's somewhat SAE pattern. At first, I changed the pattern of the PC200 to SAE but thought about the reasoning of the ISO pattern and decided I should learn that before NOT learning it. That was the right choice. I feel more proficient with the ISO pattern. Now, because it has been so many years from swapping patterns, I'm pretty much stuck in the ISO pattern. Days of multiple hoes are long gone and unless I have to hop on someone else's machine, there is no need for SAE in my life. ISO is so ingrained that it is now difficult to go back to SAE and I feel like a clutz if I attempt to run SAE. One of the things I did learn from the pedal machines is to get those dam! travel sticks out of my way. Those sticks change the foot feel of the pedals and are always in my way. First hour of ownership of my new excavator was to remove the travel sticks and hang them up in the shop! Not once have I ever missed those cursed things.
could be worse...you could have a grey market machine
There are a couple guys here that can jump back and forth between excavator and backhoe controls with no noticeable problem. Our Lb series new holland backhoes had the pattern changer, and they both run the backhoe in backhoe mode. They rented an excavator once that had the hoses swapped to backhoe, no pattern changer. He told me he was really effed up. Must be boom position that triggers the memory. To your right excavator, in your face backhoe?
My friend I am going through this right now! H K and M are a complete right off for me and since I seem to have been taught or somehow my brain just likes Deer or Backhoe control I am having a hell of a time with Y. I might bite the bullet and keep practicing Y but guess if I switch a couple of hoses I'll have my Deer controls and 3 brand new patterns not even listed . I just don't know if I can be as good with CAT controls I feel like for fine grading it makes more sense to have that stick and bucket on the same side.
A customer of mine bought a self loader log truck with a Hood picker on it. I don’t know what they call the pattern on log loaders, but as far as I know, they’re all the same. They even have a rocker pedal on the floor that rotates the grapple(?). Anyway, he had a Kobelco excavator and he was good with that machine sorting and loading logs, but he could not adjust to the log loader. He asked me to swap the hoses around so the loader operated like the excavator. I advised against it, but he insisted that was how he wanted to go. It worked for him and a new truck driver he hired was new to log loaders and learned quick and got real good with this bastardized setup. Then the truck driver left for a better job. The owner hired a new driver who was experienced, and he was really frustrated with this setup and quit. Unable to hire another driver once they saw what they were up against, he finally had me swap the hoses back to original layout and all was well. The owner himself got good with it after a short whole. I made money, so we all were happy.
Cat/ISO on a JD 690. Hated that backhoe pattern......
Same here.
I just rented a 308 with the controls selection done on the touch screen. The choices ? One selection is labeled john deere. The other is backhoe. Go figure that out . I always called the boom in the right hand cat or excavator controls. Boom in left were back hoe or john deere. I can run either. Out of necessity... since a friend has a 400 komatsu with deere controls.
I think it depends on what you're used to and how precise the controls on the machine are. The controls on my backhoe are Cat style but have so much play it requires really good concentration to do finer work. If I haven't used the backhoe for a several month's it takes some time to get reacquainted with the controls.
Moving a lot of equipment, you learn to take it as it comes. On my equipment I run swing/ stick Left. At the topsoil pile is a good place to practice the “other pattern”. It’s good for ya, keeps your brain sharp.
Anything I've ever used on a frequent basis is SAE, (John Deere). Always been by chance that SAE (boom with left hand) was manufactured that way or pattern selector equipped. My son once jumped on a Kubota Compact Utility Tractor. Task was a short 2' deep ditch, and a 3' deep hole 4 X 5' for generator base. He couldn't do it. Lady explained her husband was used to Cat pattern, had it converted. I dug the ditch, but took an hour longer than it normally would. I'm not a fan of ISO.
My Case backhoe has a toggle switch for ISO or SAE. I run SAE if i'm in a tight place. I occasionally switch to ISO to train myself. It ain't easy to retrain my brain. Daniel Pearce claims to be able to do both, but confessed to switching my backhoe to ISO for the tractor pull. Most of the machines he has used are Caterpillar. Daniel had always claimed to be fluid with either. His admission that he feels more comfortable ISO was revealing. I've been in hundreds of cars or trucks, all are consistent, the brake is in the same place, accelerator also is always same place.
Iso for me. I am not an operator by any means, but just seems easier. We toured the Cat foundry, and watched the mini excavators set up to handle hot castings. One guy claimed they will switch patterns on them just to keep the operators on the ball. Can anyone confirm?
I don't think Cat would want any mishaps with molten steel. They got a big fine not too long ago after a worker was killed.
Finish grading is where it's at. I can dig a trench, pull stumps, move rocks etc on both, but not grade. If you can finish grade on either pattern, you have my full respect.
Some of us can’t finish grade on either, need a shovel and a rake. lol
Which foundry? Went to Peoria many years ago and toured the engine block plant. Then they were using "robotic" arms ran by humans. The operators would swing the arm towards the viewing windows for a show. It was pretty bad ass. This was the block plant that was casting Nascar blocks at the time. They had several V8 blocks on the floor but wouldn't say which team they were for.
Believe that was the one. As I recall had one excavotor above each furnace to scrape slag, those were air? cylinders, not hydraulic. Then the arms or excavators to knock sand of the fresh casts. definitely a very interesting visit.
Yeah it's something one doesn't forget. Did you make it to the track type tractor plant and the track link forge?