Hi everyone, I have some issue with my backhoe I rebuild the injection pump my self and I assuming I messed up but it's almost impossible to find a shop here First compression is good across board , injector are new and working Timing is correct, valve clearance good The problem is two cylinder are not firing , cylinder 1 (front of backhoe ) and 4 They are smoking white but no combustion Sometimes on low rpm cylinder 1 fires but full throttle they both smokes without combustion Anyone could help figure what going on ?any specialist of roosa master ? New video by mathieu delcourt photos.app.goo.gl
Watching the video, it looks like they’re all puffing white until it runs for a few seconds.. How is the starting.?? Does it take awhile to get it started.?? Did u have a manual to go by.? Do u know about the dot to dot on the drive shaft.?? Do u have the cam ring in correctly.?? As u know, there’s 1 unit supplying all the cylinders..the rotor.. it’s almost impossible to have 2 outta 4 cyls acting up and blame the pump.. (If put together correctly)
Welcome Mat76.... ......if you have not had the chance yet to search thru this site... you should know that you have the ear ( post #2) of the finest 'pumpguy' on the planet.... at the very least, the finest 'round here. Whatever he says about pumps... he will lead you where you need to go Good luck
Is it possible that you swapped the lines from 1 and 4? The way you're moving the "throttle" makes it harder to see what's going on. Holding the throttle on one low or medium speed would help see what it's doing. Is the governor acting correctly? or not?
# 1 line should be hooked up to the pump at 7:00 looking at the back of the pump.. Then goes in the firing order in a clockwise direction 1=7:00, 3=11:00, 4=1:00, 2=5:00 looking at the back of the pump.. Hold the throttle tight..or.. screw the low idle screw DOWN until you get to a mid rpm.. and hold the throttle against the stop.
I will check the hose but they are hardline, it would be very hard to mismatched them. The bend they have kinda put them where they need. The engine start quite easily surprisingly Yes I followed the on the shaft and the dot in the pump I did followed the manual and took pictures at every step aswell Let's imagine I put the cam ring backward ( cc was facing up in my picture ) that would do that ? Sorry on video I was giving throttle to see when the #1 stop firing , the governor works fine it idle ok (on two cylinders so...) I'll make an other video with steady throttle
Yes, double check the lines from the pump to the injectors. Did u remove the leaf spring on the rotor.?? What did u reset it to.?? THATS the max fuel setting.. The cam in backwards will give you half the required fuel delivery..
Unfortunately yes I removed the leaf spring.... I read somewhere on this forum or an other to screw it all the way and back out 1/4 turn, I actually tried by 1/8 of turn from all in until it won't start but it's doing the same So the ring backwards could explain the problem I guess, half of the cylinder for half for half the fuel ?
I checked the fuel line it's the right order
The leaf spring adjustment is VERY IMPORTANT.. called the Roller to Roller (R/R) How did the rotor look.?? Any wear lines going around it.?? I literally just got one in that was white smoking and hard to start.. the head and rotor had wear rings all around the rotor and needed replacing.. I replaced the H&R and all problems solved..
It was dirty but no scratches or visible wear I guess I have to take it apart again Is the parts still available new ?
The cam ring has an arrow, not “CC”.. Looking down on to the H&R, the arrow should be facing to the LEFT..then u put on the weight retainer with the line on the retainer (old style) to the line on the rotor. If you have a new style w. retainer, the small cut out goes to the line on the rotor.. Did u transfer the timing line.??
Holy ****.. u don’t have a wire wheel.!!?? Did u order a new return connector 15830.??
Ok you lost me there I did not separate the rotor from the head, I only remove the leaf spring and the roller and pin behind the roller The cam ring should be the other way ? Im pretty sure that picture was right before I touched anything
What’s ur pump #.?? I’ll look up the r/r for ya.. Just put air 90psi or greater into one of the outlets in the head and turn the rotor until the plungers come out and measure across the 2 rollers.. ALMOST impossible with 1 person..
The pic is right.. the arrow is pointing to the left..(cc)
Are the plungers in the rotor free to move back and forth.. Real free.!! You should be putting it together WET.. dunking each part in diesel fuel. The plungers should almost fall out when the rotor is tipped to one side or the other.. THATS FREE..
Thank you for your help I really appreciate!! Pump is dbgfcc 431-46aj Ill get the pump open and send more pictures I need to get my hand in my micrometer too, we just moved, it's hard to find stuff , would a caliper be enough?
Cam ring was right Do you see anything wrong in these pictures?
Yes the picture where on opening the pump , I cleaned everything up and the roller were free to move , reassembled everything with gasoil
I mean free to move but can't go further than what the leaf spring allows right ? They slide up down easily and once the leaf spring remove yes they fall almost by themself Is there supposed to have a spring in between the two.sliding pin ?
No spring, just the 2 plungers.. The R/R is 1.955” It doesn’t take a 15830 connector..
And just that could explain my problem ?
It’s possible..
Does it have to be precisely 90 psi ?
Lol.. NO.. but 90psi + will get the plungers/pistons to push out and hold the shoes at their max against the leaf spring.. 1.955” is spec.. u can set it to 1.959 to give u 10% more fuel. Was there any limiting shims behind the leaf spring and screw.?? If there are, take them out. It doesn’t look like there are.. U really should use a 1-2” micrometer.. a caliper isn’t the tool for that job. But, you have to use the tools that are available.. It’s better than guessing.. I have to go to work.. if u have any more questions, I’ll answer them when I can..
Ok I put 100psi in the inlet #4 My micrometer only goes to 40mm too small for it I managed to get 1.995 What should I check next before putting it back together? Also I cleaned up better the cam ring
Back the max screw OUT.!!! To 1.959-1.955.!! Your gonna burn up your engine if u leave it at 1.995.!!
Sorry I type wrong , I did set it up to 1955
Quick question I have a doubt , the automatic advance system So one piston on one side and a spring on the other The power piston goes in cc side or c side ?
Pp ALWAYS goes to the side of rotation.. so CC..
Morning, The news , pump is back in and timed I got #1 running, little misses at wot , I'd say good enough , but the #4 still not running....
That’s a kick in the nards.!! I know it’s a lot of work but, can u swap an injector.?? Swap a known working one w #4.. and see if the problem follows the injector or stays in #4..
I tried but same The engine is running much stronger though And now the damn thing won't move forward or backward
So the problem is either with the head or the cylinder.. Bummer..
Well anyway thanks a lots for the help and all the mastery !!!Engine starts effortlessly and has enough power for the hydraulics, it's a progress! The head has been entirely redone ( surfaced , valve seat and valve ) So it's either the rings or a cracked sleeve , but weirdly enough the compression is exactly the same as #3 who runs..... I'm clueless of what is happening, I spent so much time, effort and money on that junk that I don't know if I should keep going or just give up and get rid of it........
Time for a compression test on the engine cylinders. Buy at least one new Stanadyne injector and see if it helps one of those cylinders. New valve springs and guides in the "redone head" ?
Compression on cylinder has been done and was ok , that's what throwing me off !! Guide were within tolerance and I kept the original springs as they are extremely hard to find here...
What was the compression?
Did you test all 4 cylinders ? They gotta have pretty much the same in all ofem. 25 psi difference and no more. Cranking with the starter ----> 400 psi for a motor in decent condition. 480 while it is running. Springs are available. It takes a lot of time searching for them tho.
They are not that high , that engine has a lots of hour , they are all running around 290, #2 and #3 are the lowest and yet they are the one running best....
Wow.. 290 is low. Minimum is 300psi.. I’m surprised it started..W/O a “squirt”.. How’s your oil level.?? Rising.?? Just keep an eye on it for awhile.. for piece of mind..
Oil level is good and steady It start pretty good by itself with 10/15 second of glow plug I wish I had the budget to rebuild the engine but I don't....