I've got a unit that has a bit of a problem. The unit starts up fine. Absolutely no codes in system even with ET booked up. Lock out switches of any sort are not enabled. Though I have zero control with the joystick. Tilt/raise/lower. All functions will not work. If I have the stick moved to any direction and shut the unit off I can get a brief moment of movement from either the tilt/raise/lower depending on how I have the joystick positioned. Any thoughts or advice?
I would check the lock out solenoid for your pilot controls first. The slight movement you have at shutdown is more than likely a small accumulator charge. Check your fuse panel for blown fuses first.
Sounds good. I could have swore I checked all the fuses but I'll check them again. I'm heading out to the unit right now. Really hope I can get her going as we got a good dump of snow this weekend
When you say “no Codes” you mean no Active Codes I assume.? What Logged Codes, if any, do you have.? Do you have the Electrical Schematic.? A S/No would also help.
No logged codes either with ET. I dont have a schematic unfortunately. JNJ00581 is the S/N
Brings back memories. I had two around that S/N on the last job. One was 622, can't remember the other one off hand. Schematic sent by PM.
Are they nightmares that memories are being brought back haha
The pair of them were bought used by some Canadian clowns and imported to do a construction project. Wrong type of machine, wrong application, wrong everything. But they didn't care, at the end of the day the client bought the two machines off them.
Okay so checked all fuses. Good. Getting source voltage. Verified that my lock out switch isnt applied. When it is applied I get a status on ET saying unidentified failure but still no logged or active codes
IIRC the lockout switch is 3-pin, common/NO/NC. Common should be machine frame ground. Implement control must see open circuit on one switch wire and continuity to ground on the other. You have a fault. It’s just that the implement control is so old school that ET can’t recognize what it is. So don’t let the fact there are no Codes fool you.
So if I unplug it and place a jumper I should see something
No. Have a look at the schematic. The control has to see ground on one wire and open circuit on the other one at the same time. You can’t just jumper the switch. EDIT: Sorry, this is a newer design than I thought. The schematic shows the Lockout switch in the "Unlocked (Pilot Activated)" position. Pin 2 on the switch (wire 168 Green) should have battery power when the key is ON. Pin 1 (wire M927 Green) should also be powered. This wire goes all the way to the Pilot Shutoff Solenoid and from there to frame ground. Solenoid resistance spec is 33.75 ohms +/- 5%. Pin 4 (wire 700 Pink) goes to Connector J1, Pin 39 of the ECM. It forms a loop with...... Pin 5 (wire H766 Yellow) goes to the Lift/Tilt Kickout On/Off switch, where it forms a loop back to Connector J1, Pin 70 of the ECM as wire C216-C52 Black. That whole loop has to be continuous, so check continuity between Pins 39 (700 Pink) and 70 (C216 Black) of connector J1 of the ECM with the machine powered off and the connector unplugged from the ECM. Both those loops are gonna have to work to get the Pilot system to work. I bet you haven't looked at the Kickout Switch yet..?
Sorry no I haven't looked at the kick out switch. So i went to the solenoid and unplugged it. Machine on I see source on pin 1 but I also tested pin 2 and I'm seeing about 12v... Pin 2 should be the cab ground that goes to cab ground 1 (110)
I do apologize my electrical skills are not the strongest
And sorry are you mean pin 70 on J1 and pin 39 on J2
Quite right. My bad. Getting my J1's and J2's mixed up. Was the 12V you measured with the solenoid valve electrical connector unplugged and was it between Pin 2 and frame ground.? Try testing for continuity to machine frame ground on Pin 2 (200 Black). Then if you have any probes that allow you to take measurements in the connectors with them plugged together, try connecting the solenoid valve up to the machine and measure voltage between Pin 2 and machine frame ground with the machine power ON. You should see battery voltage - 24V give or take. Did you test the solenoid valve coil resistance..?
Yes I tested it with the 2 pin connector undone from the solenoid. Yes between pin 2 and frame ground. On pin 2 I'm reading .3ohms which should be allowed. The solenoid tests out at 33.5. With the +- of 5% the least it should be is about 32.06 ohms. So the solenoid appears good I haven't tested via back probing yet
Try back probing with everything hooked up and the power on.
Yep I have source voltage on pin 1 to ground. Tested on pin 2 and seen source aswell to ground.
That sounds reasonably promising. Methinks time to check the continuity between Connector J1 Pin 70 and Connector J2 pin 39 with the machine off and the connectors removed from the ECM. you should read zero ohms or close to it.
I'm OFL when I do this
So it looks as though you have an open circuit. Does your resistance go to zero when you touch the two probes of the multimeter..? If it does, then you will need to work around the loop from J1 Pin 70 to J2 Pin 39, opening each connector that the wires pass through and checking that the resistance in each section is zero or close to it. To do this you will probably need a fair llength of automotive wire and more than likely another pair of hands. Somewhere in that loop it sounds like you have a broken wire, a connector that's not passing current, or a switch that is broken. Maybe it might be worth testing continuity across Pins 1 & 2 of the Lift/Tilt Kickout switch (see below) when you move the switch and see if it goes from zero ohms to open circuit. H766 comes from the Pilot Lockout Switch, C216 follows an extremely circuitous route from this switch but finally ends up at Conn J2 Pin 39 of the ECM.
You weren't kidding about that c216-c12 following a headache route. Yes my meter zeros out. Tested the switch and yes it switches from OFL to 0.01 or so. So I'll chase wires now
So pin 70 J1 to pin 2 on the implement lock out switch tests good. Pin 39 J2 to pin 2 on the lift tilt kick out on off switch tests good aswell So I'm confused now
Hold up a second ........ J2 Pin 39 should connect to Pin 4 on the Pilot Lockout switch via wire 700 Pink J1 Pin 70 should (eventually) connect to Pin 2 on the Lift/Tilt Kickout switch via wire C216 Black. The only thing that is left is between Pin 1 on the Lift/Tilt Kickout switch and Pin 5 on the Pilot Lockout switch via wire H766 Yellow. Have you checked continuity on that..?
Just did and it's good. 0.02. Have I skipped a step or something. Because everything seems good.
Not as far as I can see. Hook everything up again and try the J1-70 to J2-39 continuity again. It was open circuit when you measured it before remember..?
Okay it's good now. I wounder if when I measured it first if I had the switch off
Is that an "Oh ****" moment..?
Nope. Hooked it all back up and still nothing
You've had ET hooked up to it. Did you look at the Configuration screen. Did anything jump out at you.? Try getting into the ET Status screen. Start from the top and look at the parameters working down one by one. Anything that is switched, flip the switches back and forth one at a time and watch them change status (Active/Inactive or whatever) on the screen.
Okay so with kick out switch on I have normal readings. When it gets disabled either by switching it off (disable) it sets unidentified failure with the raise/lower detent electromagnet status
You want to post a couple of screen grabs showing the two different switch states..? It looks as though this is where you are.......... The four electromagnets are the same Part Number - 145-8428. Would it be worthwhile swapping the lift electromagnet with (say) the auxiliary electromagnet and see if the problem switches from one function to the other with the electromagnet that was removed from the lift..?
Hmmm I honestly just replaced all three on Saturday. Is it a possibility that I pinned them in correctly?
hi, As the hydraulic system is pilot control and looking at the schematic, all you need electrically to allow the hydraulic system to work is 24V at pin #1 at the pilot control lock solenoid and a good ground. in an earlier post you stated that the coil was tested to be ok? The trans/chassis ECM is controlling the pilot lever detents and kick outs only So if you have 24v and a ground at the solenoid it should work, if not you have other issues blocked screen in pilot line faulty reducing valve faulty lock off valve Do you have pressure gauges suitable and are you able to check pilot pressures ?
Yes I tested the port for the pilot and received 0 psi as reading. Unitvrunning of course
i certainly think you should check them.
Okay I'm just doing some paper work up and I'll be heading to that unit in an hour or so
By some strange coincidence did the problem start right after you replaced the electromagnets last Saturday, or did the machine work OK for a while then have the pilot problem..?
Some one else had diagnosed it prior as those so I replaced them. Pilot wasnt working at all prior to this. Same issue as when it was first brought to my attention. I'm just grabbing tim hortons (how Canadian of me) then I'm making my way there
Oh deep ***king joy............. coming in behind someone else who "diagnosed" the problem but didn't fix it. Wonderful.
Okay here's the pictures with the switches in various positions. Any time its disabled it goes to the unidentified failure
On the bright side the heated seat works and it's only.... 1F feels like -13f haha...
Hi ,This is what I would do. For the moment forget about ET and the unidentified fault. Confirm you have 24v and a good ground at the lock solenoid. if not use a jumper wire and supply 24v directly to the solenoid and try. The hydraulics should work. If they don't you need to check the items I mentioned in an earlier post. If they do, you need to check that the fuse is suppling 24v to the switch, that the switch contact has closed and the continuity of the wire to the lock solenoid Remember that ET is only monitoring the switch contact concerned with the lift kick out circuit.
Agree with Mark. Make sure you have 24V and a good ground on the Lock Solenoid. If you have that you ought to have an activated pilot system. Interesting to see that on all four ET screen shots above the "Hydraulic Filter Bypass Status" is shown as "Bypassing". It may be nothing (esp. in view of the registered oil temperature) but also worth wondering what might be plugging the filter that it bypasses..? Maybe warm the machine up and see if the status changes..? If it doesn't change status when the machine warms up maybe a look in the filter might be appropriate..? Tyler, did you get any info from the operation side (as opposed to the previous mechanic) regarding what the machine was doing or not doing..? If no, is there anyone you can ask who was running the machine before it quit and get as much info as you can..?