Hi Folks. I have new bushings to install for the kingpins and slew cylinders. This is from a JCB but im sure its a generic question. I got the top pin out no problem, however, the lower pin seems to be STUCK. I have heated it up fairly hot with the torches, but not red hot, I thought that might weaken the cast? As you can see from the pics, I have a steel rod, and a t bar post driver trying to drive it out, I'm at a loss as to how to put more of a shock onto the pin.. Am I ok to heat the whole mount red hot and then try to drive the pin out, or is there something else that I could try? Thanks Bill
I tried again today..I was able to get a hydraulic ram in there and push against the pin, still no go. I couldn't push the arm on the pump anymore so im not sure pressure wise but I was very surprised it didnt let go. Ive also tried hitting a shorter bar with the biggest sledge I have. Not having much luck.. So, is it ok to heat cast up real hot? Any technique? some guys say heat it up and then throw water at it to shock it.. Ive never done that, always thought it cant be good. I dont really have any experience with cast. My plan was to get these pins out, suspend the boom with another loader and drive the backhoe a few inches ahead, that way I wont have to take any hoses off etc. I think I should be able to do the slew bushings without disturbing too much either. So far easier said than done however. Thanks!
Billie, I haven't had any JCB swing tower experience. The lower pin isn't tapered is it? If it is it will only come out in one direction. Is there much movement in the lower pin area? I figure that is the reason for the repair. If it is a straight pin there may be a wear groove in the middle of the pin, it may be catching on the bushes. If this is the case you may have to start the machine & wriggle boom up & down a little. You may need to have the jack in place or give it some hits with a hammer while doing this. For the rocking action to happen the top pin may have to fitted again. Support the hoe as safely as you can & have your widest digging bucket fitted to it to help stabilise.
If it's stuck in that lower pin boss, I'd say your going to need more impact than you can get with a post driver. You probably will have to get a larger diameter solid rod that will drop through the top pin hole, sit on the stuck pin, and stick out the top hole a bit. Then knock the dog snot out of it with a big sledge. Keep in mind, you have to have that pin in the exact perfect spot. If it has any pressure on it at all it will only hinder removal of the pin.
What did you remove from the pin to release it? A C-clip, a bolt or what ever. If its a clip you should know in what direction to drive it. Only if its tapered it will be stuck and will need pressure put on it and then a blow from a sledge hammer and maybe heat too. Do you already have a replacement pin? That should tell you what to do. If not try to find a picture of the pin so you will understand how it's made.
when I replaced king pins I had trouble with the top pin which was very bad, I used a linear attachment on my porta power
Thanks for the replies! The pin isnt tapered at all, its identical to the top pin, which drove out fairly easy. I have taken all the weight off the assembly with a jack, I can move it all around by hand, so its not like its binding or anything. I removed a bolt that goes all the way though the boss and pin, with a nut on the other end. It hasnt even moved a hair, I could stick the bolt right back in.. Im using a 1 inch bar with the post driver, and ive also tried a shorter 1 inch bar and the biggest sledge I have. I even tried swinging at it while I had all the pressure pushing on it with my hydraulic ram. Thats why I am wondering If heat is my last resort? Or if the heat will be ok.
Did yoy try pushing that pin up and out? In the picture it looks like it has a small head on it.
Just because you can move the boom with the jack doesn't mean the lower pin isn't in a bind. If the holes for the top pin are not in perfect alignment you most likely have the lower one in a bind situation. Actually it looks like it is in the photo. As ATCOEQUIP said get a rod that will fill that top pin hole fairly snug. Make it long enough to reach the bottom pin and still protrude above the top holes. If all else fails and it were me I would get an electric jackhammer and put it on that rod in a safe and secure way . I would put a collar on the upper end of the rod with it long enough to make a cup. That way the hammer bit will stay in the collar and on the rod. Yes ,the kind of jackhammer that you brake concrete with. I will repeat ATCO's advice, keep the upper pin holes in perfect alignment.
Problem with all that beating is that the top of the pin is probably mushroomed slightly and once you get it to move it will bind up part way down. Best way is to burn a hole all the way through the pin. We used to use what was called a Proco torch, that was a brand name but there are others that work the same way. It consists of a handle similar to a stick welder except that it has a connection for an air hose, there are special rods that are hollow and longer then a welding rod. There is a connection to a battery and a ground cable to the machine, you strike an arc like a welding rod with air blowing through the rod and the rod will burn through the pin. Three important things, 1. keep the rod straight through the pin or you will damage your tractor frame, 2. you will get a lot of hot slag blowing back at you so have some good heavy gloves and eye protection, 3. have a water hose handy because that slag will want to burn through anything that it lands on and try to burn your tractor up. You need a helper to watch where the slag goes and hit it with the water. Once you burn a hole through the pin it will tend to shrink and get loose in the hole.
The way the picture looks to me is the retaining bolt you removed is holding the lower collar onto the pin, to hold it in the Frame. So I say again the pin has to go up for removal The more that pin gets wailed on the top, it will never come out Good luck I wish I was there to help!
I haven't worked on a 212, but a boat load of other JCB models, so I can't be 100% certain about your pin connection, but it's very common JCB practice to have a collar with a hole in it to act as a retainer for the pin. The pin retainer collar is welded to the machine component being worked on, in this case, the bottom of the swing post. I've never seen JCB use a tapered pin for this type connection, just a straight pin with a hole in one end to retain the pin. The angle of the end of the pin on the topside is simply a taper ground on the end of the pin to ease with installation of the pin when passing by the pin seals. JCB typically uses a hardened steel bushing for the connection pivot. In this case, the bushing is press fit into the hole in the bottom mounting flange coming from rear of machine, then lip seals are fitted above and below the steel pivot bushing. Swing post is fitted over the flange with bushing/seals in place, pin is driven in from bottom, taper on end of pin prevents damage of lip seals, retainer bolt is fitted into welded pin retainer collar. This arraingment keeps the pin fixed and not rotating in the swing post. Instead, the pin rotates inside the steel bushing fitted in the mounting flange. I have a strong suspicion that the pin is siezed inside the steel bushing, and instead of pin rotating inside bushing, the bushing is now rotating inside the hole in the mounting flange. If that's the case, I don't know that you could get enough heat to the bushing to make it release the pin. Instead, if you can't get enough pressure to pop the pin loose, you'll most likely have to burn it out with either a torch or some form of lance. Here's the swing post arraingment on a 214, probably similar in design to your machine.
Well I gave it another go, still no luck. Even broke the torches out to heat the bottom of the assembly red. The 212 design is much the same as the diagram, except the pins are more like #3, just a straight 2 inch pin, with a little taper on one end (the end im bashing on). It still hasnt moved even the slightest little bit. So I am going to track down some sort of jackhammer to try that, I did try an old Kango hammer but maybe ill rent a big one for a couple hours. Im hoping some contant shocking will get it on the move. Other than that, ill torch it out.. I also wondered about the bushing being stuck to the pin, however, I think I would have got at least the slighted movement from where the pin is sitting, I mean this thing hasnt budged. I will let yous know how I make out in the end.. Thanks!
Billie, Hopefully by the time you read this you have the pin out. If you don't ,I have another suggestion. Look up at the bottom of the pin to see if the pin has been welded to the backhoe frame. Maybe someone did that to keep the pin in place. It appears in the photo that the bushing has been taking grease. If it has been, then the problem is in either the upper or lower part of the backhoe . Or even both of them.
Please look at the picture one more time. The normal removale of this lower pin is it goes out in the up .direction. Inspect the bottom of the pin to make sue it is not welded to the collar. . The way you are walling od the pin the tires are ging way everytime you whack it, also th bearing flange is like a big spring . So this is what you do , place a 20 ton jack under the bottom of the pin . Noe with the jack sitting on a solid slab you can jack the pin upwards. put a socket on the top of the jack . just a bit smaller than the pin. put the full weight of the machine on the jack, now you can apply heat to the flange at the same time wacking arround the edgges if the pin breaks loose you should have no problem taking it out the top. . But the biggest problem now is everytime you wack it the tires and flange are absorbing the shock. Also I had a massy 50 one time that had the same type of reparire kit and the top of that pin eas flaire. . Go for it ,again sorry i'm not there to give you a hand
Success! I had figured it out on my own about the machine absorbing alot of the shock from swinging, so I did put a jack right on the pin holder. The reason I was always swinging at the top of the pin was for 2 reasons, one because it had the beveled end on it and I could afford to mushroom it a bit, and because I couldn't get at the bottom with any sort of a powerful swing. I tried everything believe me, Including lifting the machine off the ground with a bottle jack on just the pin, while heating. What ended up working was torching out the bottom of the pin and then letting it cool. That is as much as I could get torched out as the tip was getting plugged, its deeper than it looks though. In the end it was just really siezed in the bottom part. Since that was my last resort, it had to work, so between being torched and me getting frustrated and swinging harder than ever possibly, it started to to move little by little. And the rest is history lol. The pin is pretty worn anyway, so it was no loss. Now that its out, I cant believe just how much grief that little pin caused. Thanks so much again everyone!
Nice job Billie. Ya didn't give up.
Good job Billie! Did you drive the pin down to get it out ?
Yep, drove the pin down.
The pin doesn't look too bad (in the photo). Since the swing frame is cast I bet there are no bushings in it. I hope all the slop was in the pins 'cause I'm sure they are less expensive than the swing frame. Can you show a closer look at the pins? I swapped pins and bushings, on my 416C, at +/- 5,000 hours and again at almost 12,000 hours. How many hours are on your rig?
Machine has 9050 hours, when I got it every bushing was bone dry, most wouldn't take grease. Im not sure that picture shows it real well, when you put the new bushing on those pins theres quite a bit of movement. I guess it comes down to how good I want it..its about $100 a pin for those ones (kingpins), I think I should at least do those. Around $900-1000 total (plus tax and duty which adds up as well). By total I mean all the pins for the kingpost, carrier, and slew. Unfortunately there is a bit of movement in the cast on a few of the holes, but maybe fresh pins would fill them a little better. Im presuming these pins are hardened somewhat, I was thinking of getting them made but not sure for the price. Those prices are from online, same place I bought the bushings. I have the JCB druid software so I can look up all the part numbers and then enter it at this site. I could cut and drill as long as I can get bar stock the exact size. But they have to be hardened in some way. Pins almost seem metric, which makes no sense at all being JCB, the king pins seem a tad bigger than 2 inch. This machine is really just for personal use, but I do want it to a point where its good to go for whatever, so I dont want to completely cheap out lol.
...from the diagram... i can't see... but the top pin looks to have a lip
The pins show a lot of wear Billie. If you reuse them they will sure shorten the life span of your new bushings , even with a lot of frequent greasing. If it were my backhoe and the holes for the bushings in the cast boom aren't real bad I would bed those bushings in JB Weld. It is an amazing material. After installing the bushings a snug fitting steel rod or wood dowel would have to be inserted through both bushings to maintain alignment until the JB Weld is thoroughly cured. I would definetely put new pins in the boom base. That boom is high dollar item to repair or replace if it gets to the point of braking .
Pins and bushings Hi guys, I am going to machine pins and bushings for my new project - 1983 C3 JCB. This is my first backhoe. Any things I should avoid or special materials to use? Appreciate any advice. Does anyone know where I can locate a service manual on PDF? Thanks! Fraser