I have '89 310C that was left stored for about 3 years in my barn. After I put new batteries in, it cranked right up and after warming it up for about a half hour, and getting ready to move it out of barn, the RPMs did not respond to throttle command, and then dropped below 800RPM and then died. Machine has 3600 hours, I've owned it for 20 years but haven't used it much lately. After waiting about an hour, I cranked it again, ran normal for 2-3 minutes and died again after moving throttle. I've read a couple of threads on here and realize that this could be very serious if root cause is not fixed properly. I will change fuel filter (have never changed it), try to suction out fuel from bottom of tank to look for possible gunk/obstructions there, and then try the return line obstruction/check valve inspection/cleaning. Any other initial checks I should perform? Thanks
You should have a screen in the intake in the tank, that can plug, or the line can plug, or the fuel can get gunky with age. You could rig a temporary tank for testing purposes, or try the new filter and see how it pumps when you use the primer pump. A common issue on the stanadyne injection pumps is the flex ring coming apart, then plugging the fuel return fitting, and shutting of the engine similar to what you describe. If you start it again and it dies on it's own in less than half an hour, and the primer pump doesn't feel hard from sucking a vacuum, then remove the fuel return fitting and see if the engine will run correctly with the fitting removed or cleaned. You can also just start it again in ten minutes, if it runs less after sitting half an hour than it did after sitting overnight, that's a pretty good clue it's the fitting plugging.
Stored for three years? If it didn't have a full tank of fuel you may likely have water (condensation) inside the tank. Anytime you put a diesel machine in long term storage you should always fill the tank to max. Fuel tank should have a drain petcock on the bottom so you can drain water/dregs. If you do have water, flush the fuel lines and change the filter.
Thanks Delmer and Willie, I will try your suggestions this week. I never really had to work on a diesel besides changing belts, hydraulic hoses, fluids and alternator repair, so for my better understanding: by "primer pump" are you referring to the one on right side of engine with a small lever on the back? The lever on it doesn't feel hard to operate.
Yes, that's the transfer pump, and the lever to operate it makes it a priming pump. The lever feels different based on whether it's pumping fuel that's flowing, the fuel is pumped up and holding pressure, or it's sucking against a vacuum. The lever pulls the diaphragm back pulling more fuel into the pump, then the spring pushes the fuel out, so if it pumps with resistance once, and then is soft, it's because the fuel is holding pressure and the diaphragm hasn't pushed it out yet. That's helpful to know if the fuel supply plugs up, you can use the priming pump to tell where. If it's the return fitting plugging up, then that's tangential to that issue, not as helpful.
Keep in mind, sometimes the lift pump is on top of the cam lobe, when that happens the primer lever on the lift pump won't do anything, have to bump the engine to get the lift pump arm off of the cam lobe.
Gotcha, makes sense, Thank you both! Well yesterday I just wanted to get machine out of the rain and back in the barn, so went right for injection pump return line check valve and sure enough it was clogged. Cleaned it out and left glass ball in place, and machine ran well and was able to get it out of the rain and in a good place to work on it. So I guess an injection pump rebuild is the next step, right? Would the thepumpguysc be interested in some work?
Probably, but if it was sitting a while, you might clean it a time or two before you decide it's definitely the ring coming apart, and pull it off. Eventually, it will lose governor control, but that should take a while if you left the glass ball in there and only cleaned it once. If you have the gunk that came out, or you can pull some out of the inspection window on the side of the pump with the two small screws, then that gunk will be easy for Thepumpguy to identify. Mouse turds or coffee grounds is I think how he describes it. Chicken skin is just from old fuel.
I only ran the backhoe for about 5-10 minutes to get it out the rain. Turned it off. Then restarted it to re-position for optimal injection pump and it died again. So it won't run very long before loosing power again. The stuff in check valve was dark brown and small irregular shapes but a tad bigger than coffee grounds (I can't see very well up close... guess I'm showing my age).
Hopefully thepumpguy see's this.
Yup.. I see it.. The 1st sentence just about tells the story.. my money is on a broken flex ring.. I’d be happy to help you out.
Pump is on the way to TPG now, Thanks for everyone's helpful input. I'll post the outcome of this highly educational exercise when I get the pump back. I'm already dreaming of the sweet sound of that engine cranking up.
You won't be disappointed!
You have received good advice. Pump guy SC knows. He diagnosed my pump without seeing it. I wasted a bunch of time as a local guy was recommended, but took several weeks. I won't make that mistake again.
I woul change the diesel. Diesel has a shelf life of 1 year.
If there's no algae diesel can last well over a year. There have been several posts in the past of old diesel still being good. Even machines that have sat for a couple years and fired right up with the old diesel in them.
My 410C was in a barn 11 years. I moved it 120 miles when a friend bought it. The old hippie he bought it from had come into inheritance, bought a central Vermont farm & devoted his whole being to consuming marijuana. Said he felt he would need a backhoe, but 11 years later he hadn't thought of a reason to dig a hole. Tractor sat 11 years, then two more, as my friend wasn't able to work bugs out of it. Worst was a port relief in the boom circuit. I found a tiny fragment of a screen stuck in it. I had owned it a year or more when I was roading it between two properties I own. It quit! I had a fuel filter, replaced it, & away it went! I made it a mile, still on a busy highway, it quit again! Yet another fuel filter, I got off the highway!!! Towed it home, consulted The Pump Guy SC. He said immediately the Roosa Master injection pump has a "flex ring" breaks down, sends pieces into a check valve in the return line to the tank, blocks it. Can't return to the tank, new fuel can't come in. Take the ball out of the check valve to get it home, but rebuild it ASAP.
Thanks for diesel fuel quality/integrity comments. I had failed to mention that fuel line fitting into lift pump had a slow leak and most of the old fuel had leaked out. I replaced the hose (longer so fitting could be tightened all the way) and tightened the fitting with PTFE thread sealant, and stopped leak. Any remaining old fuel poured out into old empty oil/fluid containers. Then put in 5 fresh gallons of diesel fuel. Fresh fuel did not have any effect on power loss issue.
Well I finally had time to re-install my rebuilt injection pump, which came back promptly from The Pump Guy SC (TPG) in excellent shape and with excellent support by email. I made sure that the timing mark was visible through the inspection window when re-installing the pump on the engine shaft. Also rented Stanadyne tools from TPG to properly install the umbrella seals on shaft and to ensure seals did not roll over while threading the pump on the shaft. After re-connecting all the fuel lines to pump, I had to bleed all the fuel lines. That took a while, lots of cranking giving battery/starter some breaks. Hand lever on primary fuel pump doesn't always work because engine cam can be pushing on pump mechanism at the position where engine stopped, so once it stopped at non-engaged position, I was able to get air out of fuel filter and injection pump input line, and tighten the flare nut on injection pump input line. Then I loosened (1-2 turns) all the injectors to bleed the injection pump lines, and cranked and cranked but nothing. I knew the injection pump had to be working so I kept cranking. Finally I saw tiny bubbles coming out of 3 injectors and quickly tightened those lines (really need a helper in the cab turning the ignition key). The last line I never saw any bubbles, but I figured it would work with 3, so I tightened that fitting as well. Then I cranked and cranked but nothing. In a bit of frustration I decided to spray the intake with starting fluid and lo and behold the engine came to life... a little rough but it ran!!! Then I saw one of the output lines at the pump was leaking fuel so I quickly tightened it some more and then the engine smoothed out and ran well. I let it run for about an hour and then checked the oil for any signs of diesel fuel leaking through umbrella seals on injection pump, and luckily there was none! Now it's ready to go back to work but the ground is soaked here from rain so will have to wait for a few dry days. Thanks to all who commented and especially to TPG for a job well done rebuilding injection pump... machine seems to be running smoother and more responsive than before!
Thank you for your kind words..
There should be a good guy of the week award on HEF. This week's award goes to the pumpguysc. His vast knowledge of injection pumps and freely sharing his expertise was instrumental in getting Newbie007's JD back up and running as it should. Big thumbs up to the pumpguy!!
You guys are going to blow up TPG's ego so big he won't fit on this forum anymore lol
Lol..!!! U guys are great..!!
You're just afraid TPG is going to start posting pics of what DIYers did to injection pumps and steal all the viewers from your thread
Lol.. I just sat down to have a smoke and saw the last reply.. U wouldn’t believe the mangled pos I just got apart.. with A CHISEL.!! WHY GOD, WHY.??!!!