Went out tonight to start my new-to-me backhoe. It was completely dead. I checked the battery voltage - 3V. Charged it for the past 5 hours and hooked up a test lamp. Sure enough, the light is on - not super bright, but a glow. I pulled every fuse and relay under the cover on the dash. I also pulled the ignition switch because the key hole is worn and it's hard to tell if it is in off or on. Still have a glow. Multimeter is showing 0.00 amps between the negative post and the cable, and battery voltage across the same location. Don't know if that is significant. I'm a veterinarian and it's been a long time since my auto shop days. Not sure where to go from here. I think the business that owned it never realized it had the leak because they ran it almost daily. The last time I was on it was a week ago. Do these just naturally draw voltage like a modern car and just need to put it on a battery tender?
The alternator is still hooked to the + battery terminal, if the diodes are leaking even a tiny bit, that will drain the battery over a week. Or the battery is discharging on it's own. I'd leave the charger on there for a day, then remove and leave the ground cable off the battery until you use it next time, then see if it starts or not. And then get a new battery, or look into the alternator more. 0.00 amps, I don't trust. The glowing test lamp, I trust. I suppose it's not that hard to remove the big b+ terminal wire at the alternator and see if the lamp goes out, if you don't want to wait.
Doesn't appear to be the alternator. Took the B cable off and no change to the light.
I would think a 310SG would have a master disconnect.... if not then put one in it
Serial number would help. Ignore voltage when checking for battery drain. It is normal for those machines to draw up to 0.025 A (25 mA). But absolutely no more than that. 25 mA will not light a test light. If you are lighting a light then there is too much draw. Since you pulled fuses, disconnected the ignition switch and the alt battery terminal, try (one at a time) disconnecting the other alternator connections, unplugging the neutral start relay and disconnecting the accessory relay and see if the drain goes away. Also, if there is the numbers 105 or 195 stamped on the metal of your ignition switch, replace it. Those switches are known for shorting out. A battery disconnect is an option on those machines and if you have it, it will be located on the left side engine compartment mounted to the main frame.
The serial number is T0310SG915996. I'm pretty sure I pulled the two relays you mention last night. If they are under the dash cover, I pulled them. I also pulled a relay that is under the gauge panel - mounted to the left side. I'll try disconnecting the other wires on the alternator after I finish playing teacher today. Ignition switch has no numbers stamped on it. I looked up a battery disconnect switch. The switch looks to be available, but the bracket is not, at least online.
I pulled the wires off the alternator - no change. I then pulled the cable from the battery to the starter solenoid. I noticed that instead of going from a bright to dim light, the light just stayed dim. From what I can tell, that cable is the only thing directly attached to the battery. Does that mean the battery is self discharging?
Have your battery checked . Bob
No, if there's current flowing through the test light, then the same current is flowing through the other battery post to the ground/chassis and back through the test light. Did you remove the big battery cable from the starter solenoid? No worry of big sparks unless you touch it to the other battery terminal, you're doing this with the test light between the negative terminal and the ground cable, right? The only way that I know of to see if the battery is self discharging is to charge it up, remove one cable for a week, and see if it will still start or not.
I am going suggest going old-school here if you want to see if the battery is self discharging. Use a battery hydrometer to test each cell. A cheap hydrometer from an auto store is only about $6. In that way you can see day-to-day if a battery is self discharging due to internal corrosion or cell plate damage. It will also tell you immediately if you have bad/weak cell which requires replacing the battery. Even in today’s so called sealed batteries, the cells typically can still be accessed by prying up the caps. Also, what is the date code on your battery? Is the battery rated for off-road? Many on-road automotive batteries now-a-days may not last very long bouncing around in a TLB. Note: Need to follow Delmer's instructions to charge and disconnect battery, but with hydrometer, readings can be taken day-to-day.
I took the battery to Napa to have it checked. It was reading a bit low and the CCA were under what the label stated. It wasn't fully charged, but they gave me a free replacement - battery was purchased in July 2019. I installed the new one and have the same test light results as before. With the positive cable removed from the starter solenoid, I get a dim glow. Hook it up, and I get the same bright bulbs that quickly turns dim. I've got a battery disconnect kit on order. Hopefully it's in by the weekend.
I had a similar problem with our Case.As hoes are often left on the street and since all the keys are the same they are very easy to steal.We found a GPS pinger in the thing that was only pulling .02 of an amp;enough to light a test lamp dimly but not to show on an amp meter.It would kill the battery in a week but not be a problem if it was your daily driver, If you want to isolate the circuit then l would leave the test light connected between the battery and the cable and pull the fuses out one by one. It will at least tell you where to start looking.
I did that last night, unless there are some fuses not located under the dash. I'm going to try removing the wire leaving the solenoid and hook the battery wire back up to it to see if I get the bright light again.
Let me ask a few questions to perhaps help locate the source of current draw. Does the machine have any aftermarket accessories installed that were possibly spliced in the wiring outboard of the factory fuse panel? For example a radio, roof beacon, fan, power seat, etc? I am not familiar specifically with a 310SG. Does it have an electronic engine controller? Many engine control systems have separate fusing, even going around a battery disconnect, to allow the controller to cleaning write memory during key-off shutdown. Does the machine have a engine grid heater or glow plug cold start system? Many times those have separate higher current fusing and relays in the engine compartment along with associated controller.
According to your serial number your machine has an ECU. Try disconnecting that. It would be located on the left side of the engine. It is normal for the ECU to momentarily draw enough to light a light, but then the light should go out. It would be better to use a digital meter set to the mA scale. With all this being said I mentioned earlier about relays. Did you disconnect the accessory relay. Not the ones "in" the fuse panel but the big "Ford" looking one next to the fuse panel?
Would the ECU continuously draw enough to light the light? It's strange to me that there is something drawing that acts almost like a capacitor. When I touch the light to the battery, it is bright for a fraction of a second and then goes dim. If there is something removable under the dash panel, I removed it. There is another device that has wires bolted to it. It's cylindrical and not a push-in type. Lots of wires going to it. The battery was dead when I went out to start it this afternoon. That's really concerning. I wonder if I had the ignition turned too far back when I shut it off last night. Doesn't account for the original issue, but being in the accessory position would kill the battery. It's on the slow charger. Maybe it'll be able to start in a couple of hours.
The best way I have found to check for leaking diodes is to do a "ripple test". Attach your volt meter to the alternator with the engine running .Switch the volt meter to AC volts.If you find more than half a volt AC then your diodes are leaking.If you are replacing ECUs and CPUs it is a good test as they don't like AC voltage.
If you simply unhook the alternator and the drain is gone, Disassemble the alt to rebuild it and test the diode trio. The AC Delco diode trio is Usually less than 10 bucks, so I replace them anyways when rebuilding.
As long as you get all those fibre washers in the right place otherwise you will let all the smoke out of it.
Disconnecting the alternator didn't do anything. I don't think it is the culprit. I got it charged enough to run it for about an hour tonight. I stopped it and it restarted with no problems. Going to try to find the test and repair manuals and see what I can find out.
Electronic devices (with capacitors and/or semiconductors) will have an initial inrush current when they are energized. That would produce the bright light followed by a dim light as your test light is providing the conductivity to engergize. This is why I previously asked if your machine had a ECU, had a radio, or other things. Most likely something electronic (not electrical like a light, or motor) is the culprit unless someone has done some rewiring of the ign/acc circuits. Can you please advise what options and equipment is on your machine? A test light does not take much current to be bright. To glow, would be much less. Typically a glow level would not be enough to discharge a battery over night though. Maybe in several weeks, but not in a day. You need to measure with a meter to really see what type of current is flowing here. Forgive me for asking this question, I mean no offense, I simply need to ask as many people make a mistake when trying to use a DVM to measure current. Does your meter require you to move the positive test lead to a different socket on the meter to measure current? If you are simply changing the selection to current, and the test leads are not in proper position on the meter to read current, you will get 0.00 Also is the meter set to measure AC current or DC current? If AC, you will also get 0.00 as there can only be DC current if the engine is off unless you have some odd accessory. Lastly, DVMs have separate fuses for current reading, does your meter have a good fuse? When you pulled the wire from the starter solenoid, was that the small control wire or the heavy power cable? If small wire, there is logical explanation for your observation, but first things first. A picture of the cylindrical item would help identify it.
No offense taken. Egos are best checked at the door in my line of work, and it applies here. It's a Greenlee DM-20. Only measures DC current and the leads are fixed in position. It only goes up to 200mA, but I don't know if that's a problem or not. I don't know of any accessories on the machine - no radio or anything like that. A previous poster said it has an ECU. Haven't been able to look for it yet. I'm curious where they got that info. Haven't had much luck finding a site that lists the options on the machine.
Mg2361 is a very good Deere technician, he has access to look up Deere serial numbers and their factory configurations, so he was able to determine if your machine has an ECU. Most ECUs will have 2-3 slide lock connectors on them. The suggestion in line with what mg2361 stated, is to remove those connectors to isolate the ECU and see the current draw ceases. It would be best to disconnect the positive lead of the battery first before disconnecting the ECU. (similarly, when reinstalling, connect the ECU, then connect the battery) ECUs have always-active power to them, as well as key switched power. So an ECU can, and will, draw power even with the key switched off. Typically 10ma or less at key off which would take many months to drain a charged battery, but if the ECU is not shutting down properly, then it would drain the battery quickly. Your stop light might tie into this, if the ECU is not shutting down. If your machine has other electronic equipment on it, particularly things like an after-market radio and/or sound system added, those could also be suspect for current draw after keyoff. This is why I ask about accessories added to the vehicle. 200ma meter capacity is questionable given your battery is discharging very quickly. Depending on the size of the test lamp, the glowing lamp might be drawing above 200ma. It would be worth your time to take the screws out of the back of your multi meter, remove the fuse, and check it for continuity. If open circuit, the fuse is blown and needs replaced before the meter can read current. It would be valuable clue to know exactly how much current is flowing when your test light is glowing.
Great explanation (both posts) fpgm04 ! Armymutt, we really would like to see a meter reading (Amps) rather than a light. That is the accessory relay. ECU Location, left side of the engine.
I would be looking into that starter, if unplugging the starter had that significant change in the test light. Simple backyard test. Hook everything back up, leave starter disconnected. Let it sit for the necessary amount of days that would cause the battery to die. On that day go back out hook starter up and see if it will start. If it starts, i'd lean towards the starter. Or if you have a DVOM with the starter unhooked, is there less than 25ma drawing from the battery? Draws get the best of many technicians, but are in fact easy to fix.
My battery project is on hold for the moment. I managed to break a hydraulic fitting on the 4 in 1 bucket and fluid is spraying everywhere. Pine tree went the wrong direction. Got one on order, so hopefully it will be here by the weekend. Don't really want to lift the loader right now. I'll get back to you once I run all the tests mentioned. I also now have the test and repair manuals, so I have a better idea of the electrical circuit. Thanks for the help so far. More later!
Where's the pictures!!!! we love to see heavy equipment carnage!!!!
It's not that impressive, other than the bent 1 3/4" steel bar that my flip over forks are mounted on. That's going to require a saw or grinder to remove and be expensive to replace.
Got my master disconnect kit today. The instructions aren't very helpful. Where does this thing go? I have 2 metal plates as shown in the picture.
Uh oh, I assume the suggestion was in reference to an electrical switch to turn off total tractor. Maybe like this.
That part I figured out. It's the mounting of the switch that's the question.
What all did your kit come with?? did it come with any lengths of cable? that will kinda tell you how far away from the battery it goes. The cadmium plated piece is of course where the switch goes into the painted piece may be a replacement piece for one reason or another that may... relocate something out of the way or give better access for the switch or just adds holes for something to mount onto.... do you have a parts book for the machine that might show a pic or what instructions came with the kit?
Came with a battery cable that is about 18-24" long, a cable to run to the grounding stud that is about a foot long. I have the parts book, but it just shows the parts for the kit without any sort of reference to where it goes on the machine.
Mine which I assume is OE is mounted next to the engine on the frame rail under the hood on the LH side.
I will try to get a picture tomorrow if I don't forget.
I got some assistance and instruction from a helpful guy. I haven't figured out what the yellow plate is for - called a deflector plate. I still need to figure out how to cut the excess battery cable off, but it works! I also got a new elbow in. I'll never order from Greenpartstore.com again. Ordered over a week ago and it still hasn't shipped. Local tractor dealer had it in 16 hours after I called them.