Hi all, Looking for any assistance, I replaced the starter solenoid. As I wasn't getting any cranking. Check Engine now cranks Replaced the Fuel pump, checked the injectors fuel is being pushed to the injector pump and then to the injectors. Checked the return lines fuel is flowing back to the tank. Check Battery is Newish and is fully charged. Check Had the head off it as it had oil in the water, replaced the gaskets and torqued all bolts in the correct sequence to the correct torque 95 ft. Check The old girl smokes but doesn't want to start. Any suggestions/ Tip/ Am I missing something so obvious I should be shot? Thanks. GA
As response aren't forth coming I am hoping that as I go through a process of discovery that once I lick this it will help someone else. My next move was to remove the pencil injectors to do a compression test on the 213 engine. I also bought the Service Manual, it comes as part of a (3) book set (Manual Set 52713, comprising of Service Manual (IE Workshop Manual), Operators Manual, ( Basic Service Manual, and the parts Manual) I obtained this from Ebay it cost $92 at the time of post. Look for" SERVICE MANUAL SET FOR JOHN DEERE 410 BACKHOE LOADER PARTS OWNER REPAIR OPERATOR " Next tip, pencil injectors are not exactly the easiest things to get out, especially if they have been sitting in a head for over 40 years. IF you damage or simply going to replace them they are approx $60 each. The pull tool is next to useless if your injectors are seized. Recommend WD 40 or penetrating lube of your choice and leave over night. The pull slide hammer will cost you about $130, but will have to connect it to something that will give you greater lift IE an extension slide. So results, 1 came out fairly easily, 2 injectors I gently pried out with small pry bars and a crow bar (If you think your going to salvage your injectors using this method, either you are a surgeon, very patient or delusional). Why? I bent the last injector and ended up snapping it just below the fuel rail connection (groan + not nice expletives), meaning the head came back off ( which is heavy, about 50 - 60lbs, working awkwardly) then using more penetrating lube from the combustion chamber side using punches and finally a piece of stainless steel rod pushed the remnants of the stubborn injector out. (Total Time to remove all (4) injectors was 10 hours, most spent on the last one, easiest came out in less than a minute, just be prepared for this to take some time and don't get disheartened) Next Tip, if you are going to test the compression you will need a pencil injector adapter. Compression for this engine is conducted through the injector hole. This will run you just over $50 for a " Lang Tools TU-15-20 Diesel Compression Adapter (3/8" Injector) " you have to get a diesel gauge as they go up to 1000 lbs as opposed to about 200 - 300 for a gas car engine one. Compression for the 410 engine is a minimum of 350 psi. So for this saga , I am now at the point of waiting for the pencil adapter to come. Will post more as I progress on my journey of discovery and familiarity of this old girl. Thanks GA.
You are on the correct track with an engine compression check. It should be one of first tests performed after fuel is known to be getting to the injectors. Low engine compression is usually a result from far too much ether being used on an engine that is long overdue for rebuild from wear, or abuse. When a diesel does readily "not" start with just a "sniff" of ether, it is usually very low on compression from a plethora of possibilities.
Although it was smoking during cranking, I like to pull AT LEAST 1 injector and hang it outside the engine and SEE IF it’s firing.. IDK if u know this or not so I’ll say it anyway.. GREAT CARE MUST BE TAKEN when exposing an injector to the outside.!!! The spray coming from the injector tip CAN AND WILL penetrate your skin and cause blood poisoning.. So, it’s very important that u not be close to the spray..
Thanks for the incite and tips guys, in regards to the injectors no not in my knowledge base but will gladly include it, and thanks for the safety tip also.
Is the pump timing correct? You replaced the pump and did the head gasket at the same time. Rolling the engine over to set the valves could you have the engine one rotation out of time?
I’m glad I took the time to write it out then.. Happy tractoring..
Well the compression adapter came today, although spending time with the wifey is always to be cherished. Results were far from the minimum 350psi the Service Manual stipulates with no more than 50 psi difference between cylinders : Front Cylinder 1 to rear Cylinder 4 read on (2) runs: 1. 250psi 2. 190psi 3. 250psi 4. 210psi Looking like a rebuild or a long block replace. I am leaning more towards getting the rebuilt swap due to time. In addition the oil in the coolant has me concerned as the head gasket seemed OK when I pulled the head first time, so possible hairline crack or corrode between water jackets and oil in some place in the block. I guess the ask is who are the reputable JD 219ci diesel recondition companies to get a rebuilt engine from? Cheers GA
What does your manual say about replacing pistons and liners? I would think that would be more cost effective than swapping out the whole thing.
You say downtime is factor when you mention getting a rebuilt long block. But, getting the head reconditioned may be a time consumer depending on the condition it is in and how busy the machinist is.
@funwithfuel Manual Reads as follows "General Info Cylinder block and crankcase are cast in one piece. Cylinder liners are of the replaceable wet-sleeve type, made of hardened alloy cast iron and are a slip fit in the cylinder block. The flange of each liner rests on a shoulder within the block and is sealed by a square rubber packing. The top edge of the liner is sealed flush with the cylinder block by the compression of the cylinder head and gasket. Two O-rings in the block provide additional sealing." Thanks GA
I was just asking if new liners were an option. Provided, the counterbore is in good shape, I'd freshen her up, that would restore your compression. Verify your pump timing to cam timing, in case it's 180° out. And most importantly, verify your battery and starter are up to task. I believe you need at least 120 cranking RPM with no preheater. That's actually faster than you think.
Thanks for the advice and option, it doesn't seem an overly complex procedure to do the above as it can be done with the engine still mounted. Will have to do my homework read, reread & look for those super tips that if ignored make ones day long and difficult. So appreciate the thought and direction. Thank you. Cheers GA
I can't recommend one brand over another. But the important thing is you should be able to find a complete overhaul in a box. Pistons, liners bearing and gaskets. Shop around and ask others here as well as online reviews as far as quality. Be careful with online reviews however. Sometimes you'd swear the company writes their own reviews
From your description you are on target with the compression check. What is your machine, and engine serial number? My son in law is a parts manager for John Deere and knows good parts from not so good to use.
@1693TA The machine is a 1979 410 Backhoe/ Loader. As in my profile picture: Block is stamped R 55011 R 55034 The Engine Serial Number plate that should be between the Starter Solenoid and fuel pump is missing. The Backhoe Serial Number: is 410 D 312573T Out of Dubuque Iowa. Thanks GA
Did you buy this not running? or have you seen it or trust it was running? 200-250 isn't great, but it should run and get a feel for the rest of the machine. I'd use a little shot of ether to see if it will help it fire, plug it in if you have a block heater, use jumper cables to make sure it's cranking as fast as you can get it to, use fresh diesel.
Hi,, @Delmer , The beast was running, I have put just over 100 hours on the clock since I bought it. Then one day last month I went out checked fluids, hoses greased all nipples and nada the thing didn't want to start I found that the starter solenoid had crapped out. Then the engine cranked, tried the block heater etc.....I now refer you back to my initial post and the cycle is complete. Thanks GA
loosen a couple injector lines at the injector and crank till they spurt fuel with no bubbles? then tighten and see if you get more fog out of the exhaust?