This machine was used very little in previous years. We started to move it to a new location when just before loading, it quit. Looked like it was out of fuel, so we added a few gallons (Diesel). It restarted, ran fine, got loaded onto trailer. 20 mile trip. It would not start when we went to unload it. Using either, we could get it to run, but not stay running. We have since installed a new fuel filter, bled the fuel filter housing at the top, and have cleaned and checked air intake filters, all ok. Now it consistently starts no problem, and at any throttle setting, but it only runs for 3-4 seconds and then stops. I have cracked open the injector lines at the top of the engine, have checked to see if there is sufficient fuel supply to the fuel pump, and have tried to run it on quite a few different days and quite a few times each try. Always same result: start fine, run 3-4 seconds, quit. If I try to restart it immediately after it quits, it will restart, but run a bit shorter on time. If I leave it sit for even 30 seconds or more, it will start and run 3-4 seconds. Is there anything electrical that would cause this? I noticed a wire going to the injector and disconnected it at a quick connector and the machine would not start at all. Reconnect, and same 3-4 seconds run. Could something have shaken loose during the 20 miles we trailered this machine? Please help. Thanks
Be patient CapnAl, the Deere guys will check the forums sometime today. You may find this thread an interesting read.
Sounds like fuel to me. The electrical part of the injection pump is just voltage=on, no voltage=off, and there isn't any automatic shut down that I know of ( you don't get any lights flashing and alarms BEFORE it dies do you?) You can run a wire from the battery to the injection pump terminal and eliminate that, and/or when it dies leave the key on and disconnect that wire, and see if it clicks when you reconnect it. You can use the priming lever on the transfer pump to tell whether you have fuel pressure built up or are pulling a vacuum. When you move that lever you're pulling the diaphragm back against spring pressure, release it and the spring pumps the fuel out, until the fuel pressure builds and holds the diaphragm back so there is no pressure on the lever because the spring is held back also (or there is pressure on half the stroke because the spring only pushed some of the fuel out). There is more pressure on the lever when the inlet is plugged and the lever/diaphragm is pulling against a vacuum. You can tell if the pump is pumping air and not full of fuel because it will have normal pressure pushing the lever, but it will spring back with the same pressure, no fuel to dampen the spring pressure. Do this before you start the machine and after it dies and you should be able to tell the difference. If you can't tell the difference, then start loosening hoses to see where you have fuel flow and what the pump lever feels like. Here's the troubleshooting if you have a stanadyne pump, the return plugging is the next step, you can take that fitting off the injection pump and check to see that it's clear. http://oregonfuelinjection.com/pdf/stanadyne-pump-diagnostic-troubleshooting.pdf
It sounds like you have a fuel solenoid? If so, how many wires go to it? If there are three, one is ground, one is "Start" and opens the solenoid while it is cranking and the third is "run", holds the solenoid open to run the machine. If this is the case your run circuit is lacking power for some reason, you'll have to trace it out and see where it has been lost. Don't jump the "start" side to keep it running, the solenoid will burn out. Don't ask how I know....:Banghead
Remove the return connector from the top of the inj. pump and start. Remove the ENTIRE connector.. NOT just the line.. unscrew the connector [1/2" wrench] from the top cover.. IF it starts and stay running.. you got yourself a busted flex ring, inside the pump..
For the few seconds it runs, it runs like a champ, yes? This sounds like the same problem that turned my 410C into a giant shade maker in my driveway for almost a year. I replaced the fuel pump, the fuel filter, the fuel filter housing, and hot cleaned the tank about a dozen times. I traced the simple fuel path. Alright, here's the little trick that let the sun shine on a patch of my driveway that was growing moss for most of a year. There is a little glass ball check valve in the line by the FI pump... It'll get a tiny chunk of rust or some such unwanted piece and begin to become one with the valve body. Pop the line off the FI pump inlet and shine a bright light down there and see if you can see a little glass ball. Then break it. I used a small drift pin, and then flushed it out. The feeling of relief when it ran normal again was quite something after I had grown so puzzled. That was 5 years ago... No problems since. I hope that this is the problem that you are experiencing and it goes as easily for you. Good luck.
That is why the pumpguysc told the previous guy to remove the return line fitting and try starting it. It's a very common problem with a Roosa Master pump, the flex ring is coming apart and turning into coffee grounds and stopping up the little glass bulb. BTDT
Don, you hit the right problem area! I had previously replaced that very check valve setup and it ran for a while, then back to the same problem. I was told to disconnect that line coming in that check valve and run the machine. It ran, so I was going to remove the check valve and drill it out when I noticed a tiny bit of debris in it. I cleaned out the dark/black debris and tried it and it ran for a while, but then got clogged again. This time, I first went to the check valve, found a bit more debris, cleaned it, reinstalled the check valve, and it has been good ever since! ( I haven't used the machine much since then). It's a Stanadyne FI pump, so maybe it's going to fail at some later date, or, I hope it was just due to the fact that the machine hadn't been used in the past few years, and some algae or ? was in the system. Either way, as of now it is working and I appreciate all the help, guys
mikebr5>> 5 freekin years???!!! OMG.. I've seen "the patch" last for a few months.. MAX...BUT 5 YEARS.!!! Heck.. I've seen it last for only a few hrs.. 1 way to check to see if its real bad is>> remove the side cover, 2 screws, and see if it has accumulated all the "mouse turds" or coffee grounds in the corner. Best of luck to ya Captn..
I had one on a 210C JD backhoe that went four years until I sold it after I did the same trick with the glass bulb. I know the guy I sold it to went for another year without rebuilding it until I lost track of it. Then, 3 weeks ago I tore a Roosa Master pump down for the first time and resealed it and replaced the flex ring with a plastic one that came in the kit from Spaco. I don't think I would have attempted it but there was one done on YouTube that was like mine. I cut off the end of a nail to use as a tool to expand the holes in the flex ring enough to thread them over the heads of the rivets with a couple of dull picks. I am positive that there's a better way, but I got real good at it by the time I got all 6 done, LOL. This was off a little AC motor grader that I bought in pieces a couple of years ago. It runs like a dream now. I'm glad I did it. I still have several pieces of junk that use Roosa Master pumps.
thepumpguy, The side cover you are referring to, is it the small plate next to the name plate? Since my machine has 9500 hrs. should I remove that cover and do an inspection to see if my flex ring is beginning to fail as a preventative maintenance step? Can you tell by the photo if it's the 1992 310D OEM pump or if it's a rebuilt? One more, where is the check valve located? And thanks so much for your devotion to this forum. You are a huge value to all of us.
Yes, that's the side cover.. the return connector with the check ball is the one on top.. its the one that screws into the top cover. Remove the return line.. remove the fitting then remove the return connector..
Remember, all the fuel is filtered before it gets to the pump. Likely any debris in the check valve originated from the pump. ... such as a flex ring breaking down. As I was informed by this forum, You could run the FI pump without the check valve for some time (5 years !!) BUT with a failing flex ring, the engine could run away ... over speeding itself to death. Pumpguy ... Would the solenoid stop the fuel flow with the flex ring broken & the weights loose ?
If it sits long enough, diesel will polymerize and form crud. The diesel sitting inside the pump will do that as fast as anywhere else, that's why the pump makers say to use a special oil for storage. I think that is what Capnal is hoping for.
HOSS>> depending on the condition.. it WILL NOT shut it down.. BUT .. you have to be a complete moron not to notice it.. The engine WILL run up & down before that condition shows its head..
Thank you! Your detail about removing the ENTIRE connector made my day. That was the key. I had already tried just removing the line.
Your welcome.. If you need someone to do the overhaul on the pump, let me know..