hi all. I have a straight JD 450. I have fabricated my old forestry wench from my tractor to mount on it. In the fall, my PTO level would shift right in absolutely no issues now I cannot get it to shift in it just grinds and I have no idea why. Nothing has changed from the fall until now. Can anyone tell me what to do?
Welcome to HEF brimac . The engine clutch is not fully releasing. Try the adjusting procedure below (screenshot from the 450 operators manual).
The 3pt. hitch is a nice option to have.
Thank you soooooo much, I’ll try it today
I adjusted exactly as it said….twice, pto lever still will not engage, just grinds
Trans oil and hyd oil are clean and full. I put grease in the bellhousing above the pto lever but I’m not sure how much I should put in
Also I removed this cap under the rubber bung by the lever and the spring and plunger are in good shape. I started it and hyd fluid flew out so it appears that it’s working correctly but who knows
Clutch plate and pressure stuck (seized) together ? Can you shift the transmission with the clutch pedal fully depressed ?
Yes Absolutly everything works as it should. No steering issues at all.
I know I’m only looking through two bung holes, but I don’t see anything in there that appears to be broken or disconnected or anything. That PTO lever just will not shift in.
I’ve even gone so far as to try and try it with a long bar and it will just grind the whole time and briefly engaged the PTO, but it won’t stay engaged and I don’t dare push on it any harder than I have been. Plus, I don’t wanna grind it anymore than I have to lol
Pry
I know for the Deere dry steering clutches that freeze up they say can ease against solid object and pull handles in- clutch will either release or strip out all the fiber splines. Not sure if you could run cable out to something, shift pto in prior to starting engine and then push in clutch. BE READY TO KILL ENGINE IF CLUTCH DOESN’T FREE AND IT STARTS PULLING YOU Or maybe, with engine off, pto engaged, clutch disengaged , pipe wrench/cheater on output shaft and free clutch… (I had an old Yamaha 2stroke bike that the clutch froze and I was able to start in gear and got it to break loose) Also, JDCrawler forum has guys with a lot of older Deeres…may be able to help. JDcrawlers Messageboard - Index page (I had a 450B trackloader)
It won’t shift in even with the engine off. The PTO spins freely. I just cannot get that lever to shift in.
My thoughts: if it grinds while trying to shift when running- lever is moving far enough to try and engage but clutch not releasing. Can you try turning the pto shaft by hand while engaging pto lever? It may just be that the splines aren’t aligning while you’re pulling on the handle…
Can you slowly try to engage the PTO while playing with the clutch? On my tractor you have to play with the clutch a little to get the PTO lined up so it engages. Sometimes it goes straight in but very rarely. It works best at the slowest idle speed. If it won't engage no matter what you do the PTO clutch could be worn out. I'd guess it has a dual clutch, one for the trans. and another for the PTO. Have you tried with the engine off and manually turning the PTO shaft to see if it will engage? You might need a helper to try.
Pin #4 (in screenshot below) may have jumped out and the shifter yoke is not traveling far enough to fully engage the 2 gears. Shove a magnet into the bottom of the clutch housing see what you find.
That #4 pin is still in there. I did try to engage it by slowly, turning the PTO and it still will not engage. I got a magnet to the bottom of the Bell housing but didn’t come back up with anything.
It’s driving me nuts that this area is so inaccessible. I just wanna get in there and see what’s going on, but you can barely see anything through those two bung holes.
@brimac said “It’s driving me nuts that this area is so inaccessible. I just wanna get in there and see what’s going on, but you can barely see anything through those two bung holes.” . From all the suggested checks and everything you have tried, at this point I think its time to start ripping into it. I suspect you are going to find the pto engagement issue behind the transmission front cover. That engine comes out relatively easy. See nothing there , head for the trans front cover.
Thank you! I’m afraid you’re right, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Thanks everyone for all the help!!
Make sure you let us know what you find out.
I have a 1968 straight 450 dozer with a flail hammer knife mower, just went through this same problem 2 days ago. What I do is shut the dozer off, hit the pto lever lightly with a hammer (from the drivers side) to the back and if it doesn't engage I turn the rear pto shaft by hand a little and try again until the pto lever latches in. Then I start the dozer with the clutch pressed in. What helps a lot faster is if you have a 2nd person slowly rotate the pto shaft while you tap the lever to the back. Hope this helps
That Mott flail mower is a good machine. You probably want to loosen your tracks a bit. They will wear faster and put more load on dozer when they're too tight.
Thanks for the tips, I kind of figured it was too tight but thought it was going to loosen up, just bought it last month and fixed the steering and brakes etc. Also I never thought about "more load on dozer when they're too tight" that makes perfect sense. I put it through some hard work yesterday and the track is still that tight so I will have to get off my butt and let some grease out of it . That Mott flail mower is nice, I started mowing my 15 acres with it and it cuts through everything. I even took down some smaller tree/bushes about a good inch thick with just the flail knives. Still trying to figure out a way to get the flail mower to float with the terrain. Maybe I'll use my extra valve body from my old JD450 to lift the ripper/flail mower hydraulics.
The Mott super heavy duty model is rated up to 1" brush. You can get heavy duty knives too. Very important to keep the PTO at full 540 RPM. Too slow and the bend in the knives can actually stretch. My dad sold Mott and was the biggest seller of Interstators when they came out. Those were the hydraulic driven side mowers that were good for ditches and stuff. Widest with 2 88" side mowers and 88" rear mower cut about 21' wide. They will cut tall grass down to size in 1 pass with sharp knives.