Anyone here with some experience with Deere 644J's had any turbo problems? We have a few J's and just had our second one go down with a turbocharger. One of our other guys the other night was out plowing snow and he shut er down because the turbo started whistling pretty loud. I wheeled another loader over to replace it. Our shop foreman was notified and he said drive her back to the shop (12 blocks). So I refilled the crankcase and was on my way. I meandered towards the shop at a brisk 1400rpm. I got about 6 blocks and shut the loader down because she was puking oil out the stack. There was oil all over the hood, dripping out the end of the muffler and running down the side of the block from where it was coming through the hood. So I refilled the crankcase again..... 4 gallons of oil... HOLY CRAP... I mean.... HOLY CRAP. (Sorry I got distracted there for a minute.... spiderman is on the tv here and they were at that whole upside down kiss thing. And well anyone who has seen it knows that chick is really really hot) But I digress..... So we filled the loader back up. I jumped in turned the key and.......nothin. The starter spins but it sounded like the solenoid wasn't engaging. So we gave it a gentle whack with a hammer... still nothin. The loader has 4200hrs on it, and its the second one we have had go down like this and had relatively the same hours. Has anyone else had this problem or heard of the problem? As usual I was bored that night and decided when driving the loader home it was a prime time to make another video. I am going to upload it to the you tube. About a minute into the video you can hear the turbo squeeling get louder and eventually come to a screeching hault. But noooo that wasn't enough. Bohemian Rhapsody came on the sat radio and I forgot I was on camera so you get a minute or so of me being a complete idiot and doing some good ole cab guitar and singing. I might edit that part out.
Deere me! Nothing runs (or doesnt) like a Deere. Why try running it and risk total failure? I saw a Case 621D blow a turbo and proceed to grenade the engine. Lots of smoke and RPM's before the bang.:beatsme
Is it a 644J with an 8.1liter or 6.8liter engine. They had both engines during the life of the Jseries I think.
The 644J was built with the John Deere 6080H Diesel engine. It is a 6.8 Liter. I'm not sure that the turbo's fail any quicker than other engines, but I have been told that it is important to make sure the operator lets the engine cool down for at least 5 minutes before shutting it off, or the Turbo will fail. Overall they seem to be a very good loader, along with the other Deere models. If possible, you should make sure they have warranty on the power train and hydraulics to protect yourself. It's well worth it.
As with all turbocharged engines its recomended that you let the engine idle for a few minutes when hot (allowing air and oil to flow through the turbo) before switching off as this helps to disperse the extreme heat that builds up in the turbo. If not, over a period of time the oil seals in the turbo can 'bake' and start passing oil also the oil that is left in the turbo on shut down can heat up and form carbon which over a time can start to block the oil passages. Ive not much experience of JD engines but some engines are more prone to turbo problems than others, the old Cat engines could be shut down after a hard shift straight away seemingly without problems whereas the Cummins engined shovels used to suffer turbo related problems, but trying to educate our operators into letting the engines idle for a while was a waste of breath.
While I won't get into the whole argument of Deere vs. anyone.... we all know who builds a good loader and who doesn't. I was against driving the loader to the shop because it is an expensive machine and I worry about complete and utter failure. I would imagine the cause of this machine's failure is operator abuse of some sort. From what I have gathered working here most operators don't know or don't care to let their machine idle at the end of the day. I'll edit up that video and post it. Its pretty cool to see the smoke.... failure and the like. Although my singing.... not so cool.
You would have made the 14 blocks in record time , punching red lights all the way if it started sucking that oil into the inlets .
I run a 08 644J, and although I never experienced a blown turbo, I did have my share of problems that's for sure. It had to be a lemon -driveshaft snapped off (due to not having the pin put through the bolt. not really a problem, but an oversight at the factory. happened right after we got it -blew hoses off the turbo, but never spoiled turbo -wiper arm strips out very easily -valve went in joystick (bucket dumped on it's own) -control pannel went (turn off one thing, everything else came on) -lifter in engine went -bearing went in the rear end, and tore everything to pieces no luck at all with this one, but it seems like it's starting to get better. All this happened within the first few months of it being new. Loader just hit 3000 hrs today
The biggest problems with turbos are operators error, let the machine on iddle for few seconds before shut it down, once you shut the engine off the turbo still turning at a very high speed with no oil and causes the the turbo seals to burn and course oil will blow out of the muffler.
As much as I hate to admit that someone named "LoaderMonkey" is right...he is correct. The early (pre mid-'07) T-II 644J's were equipped with the 8.1L engine. The later T-III 644J's were equipped with the 6.8L engine. The easy identifier between these two machines is the quad cool cooling package. The quad cool version is the T-III with the 6.8L. Here are a couple of shots of both. The top picture is the T-III version.
I've crawled over, under and in enough loaders that LoaderMonkey seemed appropriate. I haven't heard of too many turbo issues with Deere loaders but was interested to hear about this one. The new Kseries has an "auto-shutdown" feature that idles the engine for a minimum of 1 minute before shutdown in order to ensure the turbo is spooled down before shutting off. The primary cause of turbo failures is a fast shutdown coming off of wide open throttle under load. The turbo is typically spooled to 20,000 rpm plus in this condition and when the engine shuts down, the oil supply to the turbo bearings goes away. At 20,000 rpms, it takes more than a second or two for the turbo to wind down. If it spins without lubricating oil supplied, you can guess what happens. BOOM.
I have a video that begs to differ that it takes a long time for a turbo to spool down...lol When I was driving the loader home filming you can hear the turbo get louder and then come to a screeching hault. It's pretty cool.
speaking of which...where is that video?? opcorn Its not nice to keep your fans waiting
Gotta edit out my singing yet.... I don't want to lose my fans.
Totally off topic: I had to run a demo 544K for 12 hours on friday night... and i actually hated it. Sorry JD fans, I've put a ton of hours on a lot of older and newer Cat loaders and I guess I'm accustomed to them quite a bit. It seems the ride control needed tweaking on this particular 544K, when I had it turned on it's like it basically wasn't doing anything. I think I could see the boom cylinders moving a little going over huge bumps at speed but that's about it. Very uncomfortable. I played around with it for a while throughout the night and it was definitely engaging at the speed I had it set to (the lowest speed it would allow me to engage at) and it still didn't seem to allow the boom to move enough to really "control the ride" Why does it only do 40km/h? The new Cats do 50 no problem, Volvos can hit 50 as well? I hate getting passed by other loaders!!! I love passing other loaders like they're standing still when I'm doing 50 in a 2008 Cat 930H! What's with the float? You can't lock it down? You have to hold it down? It has a float lock, but it just floats for two seconds and then starts lifting itself off the ground. I'm sorry but that's just retarded! It seemed jerky and rough. Even after turning off the neutralizer, it still felt rough. I even don't like the skinny steering wheel lol, I like the doors and glass in the cats, i like being able to slide the window down an inch. I also think the John deere doors feel cheap. I think the little rubber trigger on the joystick is going to wear out in 5000hours for sure. Cat's smarter for going with an indestructible plastic rocker switch. I prefer the rocker switches and rotary knobs on the cat for the lights, ride control, etc. I also prefer the cat's parking brake immensely. Mechanical engagement all the way, why use an electronic button for a parking brake??? Things I liked: -the interior light comes on when you open the door. LOL -Sexy lookin machine, but the cats look just as nice really.
With a name like "Cat 928G" I think that it won't come to much of a surprise to the group here that you didn't find much to like about the 544K. A couple of comments... It sounds like the float isn't adjusted properly. The lever should stay in the float position and float as long as you like. If it starts to raise the front end up then its not adjusted properly. If you have a 930H that does 50 KPH, then you have a hot rod, because Cat's spec-a-log shows 38 tops Ride control issue seems funny as well....I would have the dealer check the accumulator pressure. Its funny that you mention that you prefer rocker switches, but yet you think the sealed rocker switch on the loader handle will fail in 5K hrs. All of those rotary dials and rockers switches in the Cat are unsealed with multiple wires going to each. The electrical system in the Deere is much more robust and will last longer than any rocker switch that is in the Cat....period. The little rubber trigger that you refer to is nothing more than a sealed cover over a rocker switch...much similar to the unsealed Cat switch. Parking brake in the Cat is about as 1980's tech you can get. A mechanical cable that needs adjusting, lubricated and needs operator application every time the machine is shut off. Deere PB is just like everyone else in the industry. Spring applied....hydraulically released so it automatically applies everytime the machine is shut down. No adjustments, no lube and its a sealed wet disc design vs a dry drum on the Cat. Check them out for yourself...the 1st one is the Deere...the 2nd one is the Deere.
excellent reply farm_boy, you make some very valid points and it sounds like you really know your stuff. With that said, I think I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on some points. It could be that the 930s I've run have been hot rodded a bit. I'll ask the owner next time I see him. Even though my name is "928G boy" I was thinking I would like the 544 a lot, I gave it more than a fair chance and I actually almost prefer John Deere tractor loader backhoes over the cats. John Deere/Hitachi makes a great excavator as well. I wouldn't really say I'm a "cat guy." The rubber that seals the rocker switch on the joystick is actually what I think will wear out and eventually peel away. It seems thin and I often have very dirty hands when I'm running equipment on a jobsite (especially a pipe job) I'm personally guessing that I would wear out the rubber. However I've never had a problem with the cat rocker switch and I'm pretty hard on joysticks I find. I prefer 1980s technology for something like a parking brake. I like to physically pull the cable myself and feel the engagement. I don't want to press a button, jump out of a machine to do some shovelling and watch the loader roll down a hill (or worse, into a trench) because i didn't hold the button long enough or too long, or the electronics have failed or malfunctioned in some way.
Ok 928G Boy... me and you in 6 hours will meet in a saskatoon parking lot...lol I know what you mean about the doors on the K loaders feeling cheap. They don't quite close right do they? I do also like the indents for the Cat window, they are the perfect smokers window. The rocker switch for the F/R on the Deere does feel a little weird as well. I prefer the Cat but only because it is more of an indent and gives a little more feel of positive engagement if you know what I mean. The K loader I was playing with I wasnt moving around enough to try the ride control, but if it's anything like the J loaders I think there is an accumulator problem there. Thats about where my liking of the Cat loaders ends though. I hate the machanical parking brake. Farm Boy is right.... If I want to step back into the 80's I'll grab a Bon Jovi cassette. Granted the Deere parking brake doesn't impress me either why is it so low on the console? I hate the cab in the Cats... more specifically the windshield. I always find the lights reflect off the glass and light up inside the cab more than outside. I have tried adjusting them and I can never seemt o be pleases. The Deere's don't seem to have that problem. The sealed panel for the lights... I have my likes and dislikes about it. I Like the fact its sealed and will last forever. I dislike the fact that if I have to push the button multiple times to turn something off. I would like the rotary knobs back or even some sealed rocker switches. But for the little time I spend in a loader... who cares. The other night after our 644 went down I delivered another 644 to the job. Well since I still had more to do I jumped in our 950H. It reminded me why I don't like Cat loaders. The hydraulic seem slow on the Cats. I find you have to run the engine up to full throttle to get anything done. And if you start to dump the bucket while lifting the loader stops lifting. And I do like the skinny steering wheel in the Deere better... I don't know why. I grew up with the old glass wheels Deere used to use. I loved those wheels, they were comfortable, looked good and functional. I do agree though... Deere loaders are a dog down the road. Our 644E will blow the doors off our J's on the road. Even our little 544H will drop the J's. Our 950... well its a cat. It gets too much wind drag from its big Cat ego...lol
Ok... I don't feel like learning how to use windows movie editor. I am too lazy and stupid for that. So here is uneditied. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWovw1bvP7E
This is something that was addressed on the K-series. On the wipers and lights...no matter what position they are in if you press and hold the button they will shut off. This fixes the problem with having to cycle through the remaining positions to shut the lights and/or wipers off.
Freddy u not At least the singing sounds better than that turbo. :stirthepot
that is a major complaint I have with my J series loader. Due to that, it wore out my wiper arm in no time. I have to cycle through the wiper modes to turn it off, and the 3rd setting sends the wiper in warp speed, and half the time it went right off the window. The 3rd setting is pointless imo. If it's raining that hard to need it, then you shouldn't be working. But I still have to "turn it on", in order to "turn it off"
Well being that im 18 yrs old, you wouldnt think i listen to classic rock much, but its my favorite music and the best music out there. Almost all of this new alternative music sucks, and i seem to revel in the "good days" of music although i wasnt even close to being born in that era. So im glad to see some other people who like the music my dad hooked me on because none of my friends like it and i rarely get to listen to it with other people (though they dont know what theyre missing). But anyways back on track with the loaders, i was really excited reading this thread! I hope theres more like this in the forum because even though this is the first time ive really looked into JD loaders, i cant wait to read more. You guys should discuss pro's/ con's/ complants more often! Cant wait to find more discussions like this one!
For Burnout Does your 950H have the command control steering ?
Yes our 950's and the new 966 have command control steering. Trust me I am not a fan.
Our operators don't want to road them. They'll take the old 950F whenever they have to travel on the highways.
Same here, I was doing snow removal with a 966H and wheelin that thing around town at -30.... you lose steering very very very fast. I'll stick with my Deere loaders anyways. I am not a big fan of Cat loaders.
hello ev1....99% of turbo failures are from lack of lube, resulting in bearing failure..aggreed?....now when a engine is run at fuel rpms for hours it have a serious oil flow going on in the lines....with that in mind 99% of the times that is a result of engine kill at high speed....turbines countinue to spin with no lube. i'm just saying...operators are different.....i myself have never seen them just go out....take care.