Hello community, So I bought a John Deere 310J 4x4 Powershift backhoe on auction a year or so ago with 1700 hrs on it. The other day the 2nd gear just stopped working (the gear I usually use). Then as I started testing everything else out, I noticed the 4th gear wasn't working either. So I sent it to a shop. They ruled out solenoids or electrical issues. They said they think it is the K2 clutch pack, and that it would cost at least 8000, up to 14000 dollars to fix. Ouch. That is a little less than half what I paid for the entire backhoe. So then I start looking at doing it myself since it seems to be only 3000 in material that needs to be replaced. I bought the service manual and with purchasing a few jack stands and lifts think I can get it out and taken apart myself. My concern comes more to when the manual says to rebuild the individual clutch packs. It has a bunch of JD brand specialty tools it says I need to use to assemble and disassemble the clutch packs. So ok, I would be 4000 dollars deep with the lifts/jacks even if I do this myself. But then the manual also starts talking about "system pressure tests", "Heat bearing" parts in place, and doing "end plate pressure measurements" on the clutch pack gaps before reassembling. That is when I think I get in over my head. I don't have any of those instruments, much less know how to use them. Although I am capable of learning. Do you really think these tools and tests are essential to rebuilding this myself? Am I an idiot for considering to do this myself, or smart for figuring it out so I can save over 5000 dollars (plus increase my ability to take care of my own machine)? If I get into the transmission and simply replace the entire clutch pack do I need to worry about even doing these tests? Has anyone had any experience in doing this themselves that has any advice? Do I have any other options that would get my backhoe running for 4000 dollars or less? Let me know. Thanks community.
I have no clue about JD transmissions but I have rebuilt hundreds of automatic transmissions. The clutch pack is just a stack of inner and outerplates, steel and fiber lined stacked on a hub. The special tools are usually just sleeves that allow you to get the piston into the cylinder without slicing up the sealing rings, and some sort of spring compressor gizmo. The end gap adjustment is the amount of slop in the clutch pack when there is no pressure to it. Some adjust with thicker or thinner clutch discs, some use various sizes of snap rings to take up the slack. It ain't rocket science, but $3000 sounds like a bunch of bucks for clutches. Joe H
Yeah I agree. Too much money. Although even directly on JD parts website it costs 3000 for a large part of the clutch pack. It seems like JD overcharges for parts. That is part of why I am concerned having to buy their tools. Could cost hundreds of dollars extra for something I will use once.
The parts are more expensive than a car transmission, otherwise this is just a half ton automatic like Joe said. Shimmy and some other members have done the other versions of a JD powershift, I don't know how similar this is, but I'd guess it's close in design if not parts interchange. There may be aftermarket parts available if you want to go that route. Another question is what failed? that's an unusually low number of hours for a failure unless something went wrong like overheating, contaminated fluid, etc. Have you checked the filter/screen? oil sample?
I bought it a year ago off of the rental company Sunbelt. Not sure what they did to it when they owned it. Fluids have been full since I have owned it. I do hear that it is common for a snap ring to fail in these. For awhile jd warrantied it but that was years ago. Now they install a thicker ring. It came with a sample that didn't have anything unusual. I haven't drained the oil yet no. I was riding it pretty hard that day, but I was at least making sure to completely stop before changing gears.
If you have some indication that it's a simple part like a snap ring, then I'd consider taking it apart before it harms anything else, if that's what the broken snap ring does. If the plates shed some friction material, or there's metal grinding, then it will show up in the screen and filter.
Ok. I will drain it and look in the filter next week. I will keep you posted.
I just called a parts shop and asked how much these JD specific tools are. I would have to spend about 1500 just to buy a half dozen little pieces of metal. Insane. Do you think they are really essential or could I get away with not using them?
I have no idea what tools you're talking about. If you have the manual post some pictures of what it is you think you might need. A lot of those tools can be faked, but need some clue as to what you're looking for. A clutch pack is a drum with a piston, and a bunch of discs. Somehow I can't imagine all the $ you're thinking you'll spend unless there's some damage to the drum itself. PICTURES PLEASE! Joe H
Are you able to see these pics? I am new to this site, and new to forums in general so I am not sure what the right way to post pics is. If you can, it says I need about 6 of these driver tools. And that stupid simple piece of metal they call an assembly tool is 300 dollars. Im thinking less and less about John Deere. First this transmission goes at 1700 hours, then they want to charge that kind of money for something so stupid and simple.
For the bent piece of metal tool, I have several pieces of pipe I have deburred and taken a notch out of the side. I use them in the press to hold the spring down while I install the snap ring through the notch. Some manuals state you can compress the pack with two drift punches stuck in the holes on the side of the can, but I think you'd need about 3 extra arms to pull it off that way. A good set of transmission snap ring pliers is worth having. The seal driver is just whatever 3/4 drive socket out of the set fits the best on the seal, and I'd guess the relief valve tool is about the same, or some right sized punch out of your toolbox. Factory tools are nice sometimes, but are always necessary. I have to crank oil seal sleeves with a hammer and straight punch. Not a fun as using the install tool, but got the job done no issues by being careful. Have the stealership print you out the page from the parts manual, then look the P/N's up on google for aftermarket if you want to trim bucks on prices. I have always thought if I was going to all the trouble of tearing something apart, put decent parts back in it so you don't have to be in there again soon. Same with good oil and filters. I wouldn't doubt the tranny got water in the oil being a rental machine, they seem to have a kid pressure wash the thing 4 times a week, and I'm sure they hose right across the vent. Greyson
The pressure valve installer is a who knows. Until you have the valve in hand there's no way to tell what that thing might be. Could be something simple that a piece of pipe could do. Do you need to change that valve? Looks like it's pressed into the case. The seal drivers are just something the same size as the seal to beat on. The last thing is just pressing the spring pack (look like bellvue washers maybe?) together so you can get the snap ring in. Usually those have a hole in the top and a piece of all thread goes through the center of the hub to squeeze it together. Most of us don't have enough hands to do all those tricks at once so the all thread keeps it squeezed while you put the snap ring on. Oh yeah, put the snap ring over the all thread before you squeeze it together. This is a type of compressor that is similar. The shaft goes through the clutch hub and tightening the nut compresses the spring. Fairly east to build something to do this. If I was doing this I know all those tools are easily replaced by something I already have or could make. Whether or not this is a job you can take on I don't know. I'd say your best bet would be to scan the pages of the manual and send them to someone to tell you what they actually mean. If the clutch pack is smoked it's an easy fix, but the cause is the question. If it's a snap ring failure apparently it's a known flaw that they have addressed. If it's a pressure problem that's when it gets interesting. Joe H
Cool. Thanks for the help guys. This is exactly the info I needed. I need to chew on it for awhile. Sounds like I can get away with not spending 1800 on specialty tools so that is good. I'm looking around to find a company that will do a transmission swap with me for a new rebuilt one if they are ok with me giving them my old one in pieces. haha. That way in case I can't do this all myself I can give up and just put in a new one (for 8000). Here is another instrument it says I need to use. It says to test I would need to apply 4.5 lbs of pressure. Could I just put a 5 pound weight on it and measure the gap with a tape measure? And in response to you Joe, how would I know if it is a pressure issue? The mechanic said he was suspicious it could be a leaking valve that isn't holding pressure also. As for my experience level, I am an electrician, so I have some mechanical aptitude building racks and what not for our panels and pipes. But as far and engines go, haven't changed much more than an alternator in a car.
This too. I have to heat it to install it?
I have purchased gears from this company. I would buy from them again. -----> http://www.joseph.com/
Put the drum assy in the freezer for awhile, set the bearing on a drop light bulb. Set the drum assy on something to hold it upright and drop the bearing on. Tap it down with a punch, work back and forth so as to not cock it, or a piece of pipe the right ID that will fit over the shaft. When it bottoms out the sound will change, you'll know it when you hear it.
4.5 pound weight is not much, got a kitchen scale? push down and see how hard you need to push. Tape measure no, you're reading thousandths of an inch with the dial indicator. This is the slop in the clutch pack you're measuring. This is some weird ass **** for instructions, what clearance do they specify? I've never seen anything like this, why not just use a feeler gauge to measure it? Someone who has done one of these might have an answer as to the why of this mystery ****.
And in response to you Joe, how would I know if it is a pressure issue? The mechanic said he was suspicious it could be a leaking valve that isn't holding pressure also. Without seeing the whole manual I can't even guess. There should be a flow chart that tells what valves open or close to direct fluid to the clutch pack. Or if one or more of those sealing rings on the shaft are bad you can lose the pressure there. If you know anyone in the car repair biz, you could talk to them about some of this. It's all pressure and sealing. Maybe stop by a transmission shop and ask questions. The principle is the same,
I think the flow chart is in another manual for doing diagnostics. Will definitely have to talk to a transmission shop to get a little more familiar. Thanks again for all the help.