Hi everyone, I’ve got a John Deere 310SE that’s currently dead and I need to move it. Does anyone know how to disconnect a powershift transmission or bypass the system so the machine can be moved? I’m trying to avoid damaging the transmission or drivetrain while getting it on and off a trailer.
The procedure is in the operator's manual. You can get a free copy of your operator's manual here. After clicking on the operator's manual tab, I recommend using your serial number and the filters down the left side to narrow the search. I attached the procedure.
Thanks for the help, mg2361! I just picked up the machine yesterday from a guy who used to run an excavation business. He mentioned it started knocking and has been sitting in the same spot for the past 10 years since he drove it there. I tried starting it, and it seems like the injector pump might be the culprit. I’ve got a service manual on the way and plan to start tearing into it once I get it hauled home. This is my first piece of heavy equipment, so you might see a few more questions from me down the road. Thanks in advance for your patience and help!
Which manual did you order? Post up the machine serial number and I'll post what manuals I think you should have if you plan on performing your own repairs.
Thanks! Serial Number is T0310SE844218. I ordered TM1609 Service Manual. I did some troubleshooting on the backhoe yesterday. Cranks but no start. Things I tried: -Drained diesel in tank, added fresh diesel with a bit of diesel 911. -changed fuel filter topped with diesel -new batteries and hooked up a jumper cable to Powerstroke -block heater on for a couple hours -cranked engine with a couple shots of ether. wants to run on ether but not seeing any smoke unless adding ether. -Checked fuses on right hand control panel. -cracked fuel line at one of the injectors, cranked engine, no fuel bleeding out. -Multimeter to shutoff solenoid showed 12.4 volts with key on, dropped to 9.4 volts while cranking. Can hear it click when turning key -cracked line to high pressure pump, diesel bled out, pumped lift pump handle and fuel started coming out. Retightened line while pumping. (noticed the lift pump handle does not build resistance while pumping) -cracked injector lines on high pressure pump side, cranked again and no fuel. retightened. -cracked fuel return line on pump side, got some fuel while cranking -blew out return line with air compressor. Noticed this pressurized tank and created backpressure in line. -Took off solenoid cover on pump, there was fresh diesel in compartment, checked solenoid again with battery and plunger retracts all the way. -reinstalled solenoid, disconnected power wire from the solenoid and hooked up a 12v battery to supply power while cranking. Still no fuel at injector side of high pressure pump. At this point, im thinking about replacing the lift pump and high pressure pump. The owner said he drove it to the spot it has been sitting for the past 10 years after hearing a knocking noise and thinking it dropped a valve. Wondering if its possible the high pressure pump was being starved for fuel by the faulty lift pump which caused one of the cylinders to stop firing?? I was getting fuel to the high pressure pump but not sure if it was adequate pressure... Cheapest pump i'm seeing online is $1,600. Going to call RDO on monday and see if they have them in stock, hoping to get these swapped out before the snow buries us over here. Is there anything else I should be looking at before spending the cash?
TM1609 - Repair manual for the machine, not the engine or the hydraulic cylinders. TM1608 - Operation and Test manual. This will have theory of operation, diagnostics and schematics for the machine, but not the engine. CTM104 - Base engine theory, diagnostics and repair. CTM207 - Mechanical Fuel Systems theory, diagnostics and repair. CTM4509 - Front axle repair manual. CTM120519 - Hydraulic Cylinder Repair manual. Did you make sure the metering valve rotates without sticking while the cover was off? Was there any debris inside the injection pump? Check with a fuel pressure gauge at the fuel filter outlet port. Unit should have 3-5 psi. If you have 3-5 psi at the injection pump and no fuel out of the injection pump, then most likely it is the injection pump. Does it make any unusual noises while cranking? If you bar the engine over by hand, do you feel anything unusual? Yes, fuel starvation or a bad injection pump could cause a fuel knock, leading one to believe there is an engine knock.
Thanks for listing the manuals! - Took the cover back off today and the metering valve rotates freely and the compartment looks clean. Ran a magnet along the compartment and didn't pickup any metal. - There's about 5 psi at the to the injection pump. - No unusual noises while cranking and barring the engine feels normal. - Still no fuel to any injection lines. There is fuel coming out the return line while cranking. I added a little diesel fuel supplement to the compartment before leaving. Is there any chance that letting a penetrating oil sit in the solenoid compartment could help out or do you think I should be ordering a replacement?
Also throwing around the idea of pulling the pump and breaking it down to look for obvious signs of damage or stuck parts.
I have had the little pistons in the heart of these pumps stick, if the machine has not been started for several years.
I would recommend sending it to one of our members, @thepumpguysc . He will fix you up. He could also give you some other ideas to check in case we missed something.
Did you get this running yet. Or still have issues.
I finally got it running—turns out it was the injection pump, as suspected. Tore it apart and, sure enough, found the pistons seized up (pic below), just like Skeezix1 mentioned. While reassembling everything, I managed to drop the pump, chipping the shaft in the process. In hindsight, I should’ve sent it to @thepumpguysc like @mg2361 suggested, but I was trying to cut costs and rushing to beat the snow before it stranded me. Ended up swapping in a rebuilt pump, and it fired up. Initially, the ticking or knocking the owner mentioned was barely noticeable—just a faint sound during the first few minutes of idling (video link below). Had it hauled back to my buddy’s shop, but with the driver unable to get closer than two miles, I had to drive it that distance. What started as a subtle tick has now grown louder. I’m not sure if it’s a rod knock, something in the valve train, or maybe a bad injector causing the noise. It starts right up and the noise matches acceleration. Limped it into the shop yesterday, and I’ve started pulling panels off. Hoping you guys can offer some insight on where to start—key things to check before I yank the valve cover or drain pain, or any other steps to narrow this down efficiently. Just posted a couple videos to Youtube. Here's link to the engine sound right after the first cold start. 1998 John Deere 310se Cold Start and here's the video with engine running in the shop yesterday. 1998 John Deere 310se Ticking/Knocking
Was that either I heard, you know date in a can? Some people deserve what they get. Why is it, that the starting fluid craze never really ended. With the advent of newer technology, starting fluid should be used for tennis balls only. These newer diesels don’t really need either and if they do, there is a problem Sounds like rings slap, probably from some broken piston rings. Now if it was WD40 I apologize. It could be the timing is a bit advanced or retarded, someone with more knowledge will be by, to explain how to rotate the pump a bit, to get rid of the knock.
After u get it “skipping”, loosen the line at the injectors 1x1 tightening back up before moving to the next one. Once u get to the cylinder that stops the skipping, u found your suspect cylinder.. NOW, swap out that injector with 1 furthest away and do the test again.. If the problem followed the injector, (best case scenario) get a new one.. If it stays on the cylinder.. u know what you have to do.. Good luck
Im a little more ignorant Neanderthal than mechanic up here, learning the hard way again. Thanks for the heads up. Adjusted the injection pump but unfortunately no difference in noise, just more smoke.
We tried this yesterday and after cracking each line the engine bogged but the tick stayed. Im assuming each injector is working correctly. Pulled the valve cover and found #3 intake valve lash very loose and #4 intake lash slightly loose. Adjusted each to spec but still no difference. Thinking the next step would be to drop the pan and check for any metal and play in the rod connection before pulling the head.
Remove the filter and cut it open to inspect for debris first. Click here to see how to do that properly.
Thanks mg2361, I just pulled the filter and cut it open. Not seeing any metal in it like the video shows. I pulled the valve train and pushrods. Noticed the pushrods were very sticky when pulling off the lifters. Also the oil is sticky and looks like it has sludge/carbon built up in it. Is it worth trying to idle it with fresh oil and some kind of engine flush product for a few minutes or does the head need to come off?
Might try a flush and see if it’s something sticking. Are those solid lifters?
While I think we all have that Neanderthal gene, I believe you would be much more safe spraying some WD40 or equivalent directly into the intake, especially on machines built after the 70’s, maybe the 80’s. With my limited experience with diesels, I have experienced a few broken rings and more with Either. Still, it seems most peoples go to, on a hard starting engine and in reality, especially on diesels, it’s the compression that causes the ignition. I say this in all seriousness, I don’t even know why they sell Either anymore but I guess it’s just habit. I think I still have at least 2 or 3 cans in the shelf. lol Maybe they still sell it for Meth.
Yep It is normal for the pushrods to feel stuck in the lifter when lifting them out due to the "surface" tension of the oil you are trying to break. However, it is not normal for sludge to be in there. Do you have a bore scope? Might want to pull injectors and look inside.
Gave the flush a shot. Didn't reduce the noise but looks like it helped clean some of the build up out.
The injectors were seized so I removed the exhaust manifold to get a better angle at them. Pulling the exhaust manifold revealed the first issue. Looks like a problem with the exhaust valve on #4 cylinder. Hoping that's all it was. Going to pull the head today and take a look.
Wonder if that leaking exhaust seal would or could and probably would make that racket as the oil was igniting under pressure with the fuel. Would most probably cause that knocking. Good find.
Pulled the head off and the combustion chamber was clean compared to the other 3 so it was likely not firing. Flipped the head and covered the valves with WD-40 and shot some compressed air against the bottom side of the valve and didn't have any air escaping around the valve. Pulled the valves and the seats look good, there was slight pitting on the exhaust valves. Found a lot of side to side movement of the piston in the cylinder. Pulled the pan and found some metal flakes in the bottom. Pulled the piston and found the rod bearing was shot and crank journal was ground down out of spec and out of round. Went from a valve change to a much bigger project. In the process of pulling the engine so I can put a new crank and bearings in now...
I would have the crank checked by a large engine rebuild shop that does cranks. I did not measure unless it is very bad. Some can be turned down 0.010 or 0.020 and use oversize bearings. But may be non- repairable. Could be an option. Simon C
Just for your info, spray welding does not work. Have seen attempted many times over the last 40 years, and no go. Simon C
Simon, I'm going to call around and see if any of the machine shops around here will take a look at it. Thanks for the info.
How do the piston skirts look? That crank really doesn’t look that bad. Should be able to grind that and go .010 over.
Unfortunately, the only machine shop that can work on it around here is 8 weeks out. I'm a builder and have a house to get started on when It warms up here in MT so I'm thinking I'll to have to order a new crank. Not seeing any scoring or signs of issues with the skirts. Also, I've been taking play measurements on all the shafts/gears and everything is within spec. Camshaft lobes look fine. balancer shafts bearings look good. I'm wondering what other parts you guys would be looking to replace while you had everything torn apart? The gears and shaft in the oil pump look fine. I was leaning toward swapping for peace of mind until a friend asked about the new pump manufacturer/quality and if I'd be better off keeping the original?? My list of parts to order so far, - Crankshaft - Overhaul kit (pistons, rings, sleeves, bearings, seals, etc.) - (1) piston rod (for the bad cylinder but not sure its necessary) - Exhaust valves (intake valves look good. Planning to lap all the valves) - Valve seals and springs - Injectors
The wrist pins and connecting rod bushings are within spec ? Cylinder head bolts and connecting rod bolts are torque turn so need to replace them.
Not sure I would replace the valves, if you are going to lap them anyway. Definitely stay with the older oil pump. Personally, since you need the machine but want it close to right, I would just do rings and pistons and connecting rod bearings. Probably do wrist pin bushings, if they look bad or have play. Do you think the crank can run the way it is? I would give it a good look, hard if I can’t see it myself.
I think the overhaul kit comes with new pins but I pulled and measured them anyways, all 4 were in spec so no issues there. I'll make sure to swap the head and rod bolts. I measured the inside diameter of the #4 connecting rod bore after torquing the caps, and it’s 0.297 mm larger than the spec ID of 82.703 mm, coming in at 83 mm. Planning to replace this rod now.. the other three rods are measuring in spec but wondering if I should be replacing these too? Would like to reuse what I can but don't want to risk ruining the rebuild trying to save a few hundred dollars. I'll get some better pics of the crankshaft journal, the pic I posted doesn't show the bad side. Spec calls for OD of 77.800—77.826 mm. I took multiple measurements and all were out of spec. The three measurements I took in the middle were 77.13, 76.68, 76.23. On one side the journal is ground down into the Fillet and you can see where the side of the rod was beginning to shave the crank web. Not planning to use the machine everyday or for heavy use, and will be keeping up on regular maintenance but would like to avoid pulling the engine again in the next few years.
If there is more than 0.010 clearance on that Rod Bottom, not likely to run long. Will be lower oil pressure also. I did not convert the metric spec., to standard, but am guessing the maximum clearance may be less than the 0.010 I said above. Guy hates to have to redo a job. Simon C
I think, for what you will be asking from the machine, it should be fine. Really, it’s a gamble any way you look at it. You could spend another grand inside the motor but without putting sleeves in all the cylinders and regrinding the crank and all new bearings, it will be a chance. Then the old oil pump could go out. You are spending money in the right place. Its an old diesel, it will run, at least that their habit generally.
It’s been a busy month but we got the engine back up and running. I decided to spend the money and do a major overhaul. Changed the following parts, - Crankshaft - Rod and Main bearings - Pistons, rings, connecting rods, wrist pins - Cylinder Sleeves - Valves (relapped them in old seats which were still good) - Valve rotators, springs, keepers, valve seals (valve guides were in spec) - Oil pump, water pump, fuel supply lift pump - Oil Cooler - Thermostat - Injectors - All seals, gaskets, filters - John deere lubricants, grease, sealants per service manual - Did not swap lifters or camshaft (camshaft lobes were in spec and so were lifters. Thought about swapping lifters but after hearing about all the issues with manufacturing in the new ones I decided to go with the originals) I wanted to use Deere parts but unfortunately my budget could not afford them. All the parts I ordered would have cost about $8,000 from Deere. With the aftermarket parts I chose I can rebuild It almost 3 more times before spending that much. A majority of the time was in sourcing parts, cleaning and measuring old parts that were to be reused. Assembly went pretty fast but I spent my evenings rereading procedures to the point that I can recite torque specs and part numbers by memory. This was my first time pulling an engine and rebuilding it, so I spent a lot of time in the service manual and in total I have about 180 hours working on the engine from pulling it, rebuilding and reinstalling. This doesn’t include late nights ordering parts and doing research on procedures. I also had a hand from my girlfriend and a friend at times, they also helped kept me sane along the way as I’ve been up against a deadline. Started the engine and ran it through the break in process and everything seems good. I’m not sure about the injection pump timing though. I know you can adjust timing by rotating the injection pump on the engine housing and that the pump and housing have marks that should be lined up on install. However, it has a remanufactured pump and the mark on the pump is lower than what was on the original so if I rotate the pump as far as it can go clockwise the mark is still about 3/16” from the engine housing mark. If I turn it a little CCW I get smoke and if I keep going it retards the engine to the point that it struggles. Wondering how you know your timing is correct? Do most people just get it close by listening or should I be getting a timing light with a injection line adapter? Here’s a video link of it running, the pump is turned all the way clockwise and to me it sounds a little accelerated. Here's a link to google drive with progress pics.
Back in the day for dynamic injection timing checks we used TimeTrac tool by Stanadyne. It used an injection line adapter on #1 cylinder and referenced the timing pin hole in the flywheel. Not sure what tooling is out there currently. Whats the injection pump part# or engine serial # , will need that to find the dynamic timing spec if you go that route.
Thanks for the info! I appreciate the help. My engine's serial number is T04045T756038, and the injection pump model number is DB4429-5303. The backhoe model number is 4045TT050. I'll look into the Timetrac tool.
Based on engine model 4045TT050 and per the 310SE parts catalog the injection pump part # is RE502378. See timing spec and procedure in 2 screenshots below. .