2006 Deere 310G T0310GX957750 After a week of rain there is some issue and the machine wont start. I found the fuse for unswtiched power to the ECM badly corroded. I repaired the fuse holder and I have Checked over the wiring as much as I know to check. Switched and unswitch power and ground are good. Green and yellow wires between ECM and monitor tested Ok. I have a technical manual but there are no wiring diagrams in it. I have not even been able to locate a fuse box diagram for some reason. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You need the Operation and Test manual TM1885 for machine schematics. All connectors in the harness been checked for corrosion or moisture? Has the power and grounds been checked at the ECM when backprobed, or in the open connector? Has the same wires been load tested? Testing with an ohmmeter is not good enough. Have these also been load tested? If you are absolutely sure your wiring is sound, then it is most likely the ECU. But I am suspicious of that because of this statement: Check your messages.
Ahhh, I have a PDF of TM1886 but not TM1885. Thanks for sending me those. I cant say all connections in the harness have been checked. I have cleaned at put dielectric grease on the connections at the ECM and the monitor. Power and grounds seem ok at the ECM when checked with a meter. I have not load tested properly, only with a 1.5v circuit tester from harbor freight. Im not yet absolutely sure. You pointed i need to do some load tests. If everything checks out good then i need a ECM from what i understand.
I can’t come up with a number but I’m sure it’s a lot, of ECM’s I have seen replaced over the years, that did not fix the problem at hand. I have even been at my brothers GM dealer, where they would rent a car at a rental place to swap ECM’s trying to diagnose a customers car with a bad ECM as they didn’t have one on the shelf and once you try it, it can’t go back, or be sold as new again.
We have the ability to make a donor ECU from another, whether it is from a machine or new out of the box. Then, if that does not fix the issue, we then program it back to the original machine or erase it to put it back into the box.
While I would suspect that could be done, not too sure it should be done. Around here, if you buy an ECM or BCM from a dealer and you open the box, it’s yours, whether it fixes it or not. My brother claims at his dealership, that’s why they would grab one from another vehicle, even a rental, if they didn’t have one in house because if they order it from GM, whether a warranty job or not and they open it, it can’t go back. Not sure how true that is now, with all the BCM’s and ECM’s out there. I know on my and other HD’s, I have replaced quite a few BCM’s and ECM’s and had to have them reflashed, even used ones.
I certainly wish i had another 310G i could borrow one off of. But I do not. Are there options outside of john deere for this ECM? I think i saw $2800 was the deere price. Which i certainly dont want to try a $2800 "fix" and there be no change. John Deere L16 ECM Repair | RE526588 | RE526587 John Deere L16 ECM Repair | RE526588| RE526587 | 7630, 7730, 7830, 7930, 8130, 8230, 8230T, 8330. We can repair your ECM for the Backhoe and dozer. ecmrepairusa.com Are ECM repair serviced an option?
I’m sure they are an option, I would just do whatever is possible to rule out everything else that could be causing an issue. I seriously wonder how many hundreds of thousands of ECM’s have been replaced by “techs” that doesn’t fix the problems, then the usual ******** response is, well it needed it anyways.
I sent off the ECM to an ECM repair shop and they said it tested good on their simulator. I got it back and now back to scratching my head. I do have an issue where the voltage reads high. It shows 15.4 is when actual battery voltage is 13.0. Also i have dashes on the RPM readout when cranking. At one point while working on this issue it did show 160-170 rpm while cranking. However now its showing dashes and flashes as if power is not good while cranking. With my limited wiring experience I have tested what I know to test. I have load tested the yellow and green wires from the ECM with small light bulb. And i have 60 ohms between them.
I added a jump box (28*F) and now it will show rpms 150-160 while cranking for a couple seconds and then goes to dashes. followed by the F9C4 code. The display monitor is not quite working right. The select button rarely works and the backlight flickers when the key is touched. I don't know if that could be related. I have about 9 volts while starting both at the monitor and the ECM fuse
I have seen where high voltage or AC leakage from an alternator can screw some systems up. Wonder if you could put a filter or a power conditioner in front of the ECM or from the regulator, which should be doing that job anyway. I hesitate to say this but if you have a battery going south on a Harley and it has FI, it will screw all kinds of things up. Things that you would say, should not be affected by. 9 volts while cranking is too low.
I just found the accessary relay to be bad. I don't know of any reason that would cause this issue but i might be on the right track... I hope. I did retest all power and ground wires. I only put 0.25 amps on them but everything is ok. I may need a better load tester. Im not sure what those wires should be tested at.
Want to mention that I Don't use dielectric grease on computer plug ins, and yes they prevent corrosion but have found they form a layer between the pins and receivers. They were using it at a truck place I did electrical repairs for and they were putting it on the plugs between the truck and trailer. In no time the plugs were full of dirt and nothing worked. Very hard to wash out even with brake kleen and high pressure air. I use a fine spray of Lloyds Moovit on electrical connections, and yes it does collect dirt. But it can be cleaned very easily with brakleen and air. It produces just a skinny film and not as thick as dielectric grease. Others do other things but this has worked for me. On computer plugs I tend to just clean out and dry and assemble if in a dry location as is. If in a location getting wet then better put some anticorrosion. You stated above that you put 0.25 amps on all power and ground wires. I think you may still have a problem in some of them. Remember that a cable with 100 strands and only 2 strands left will carry 0.25 amps but will carry nothing for load to run or start your machine. I like to run maximum current through a wire to test for voltage drop. If you don't run enough current through a cable the results will be inconclusive. If youre not sure how to test these cables and the battery, and monitor power and ground with sufficient load I can help. Simon C
I would much appreciate some help with how to do that. I used a 3w test light and a meter. I found about 0.1-0.2 volts of difference between no load and load (.25 amps/3w). tested powers, ground and can bus wires. I have not load tested wires before and my daisy chain of alligator clips and bits of solder pushed in the connectors certainly is not industry standard.
Lets start at battery. Make sure it is fully charged . Remember, I am not at your machine, and need to see the results for each test to rule out something simple before buying parts. #1Red test lead on battery POSITIVE post. Black test lead on Negative post. Have someone actuate start and hold it there for 5 seconds or more. What is meter reading? #2 Red test lead on Battery Positive and black test lead on Starter Solenoid Large Positive Post ( Red Cable ) while someone attempts to start and holds in that position for 5-10 seconds with lights on and Heater fan on high. What is meter reading. #3 Red test lead on Clean steel of FRAME and black test lead on Center of Negative Post of battery with lights on and fan on high . Hold start attempt for 5 seconds, What does meter read? #4 Red test lead on Clean steel frame of CAB and Black test lead on Center of Negative post of Battery with lights on and fan on. Hold start attempt for 5 seconds, What does meter read? #5 Red test lead on Dead Center of Positive Post of Battery and Black test lead at Fuse For ECM with LIghts on and Fan on for 5 seconds ( Not trying to start this time ) What does meter read? #6 Red test lead on Dead Center of Positve Post of Battery and Black test lead at the Positive Connection Of Display while fan is on and lights on for 5 seconds. ( NO start attempt ) . What does meter read. By the way for lots of these tests we will be looking for answers like 0.2- 0.6 or even higher readings like 10.1 volts. Please just hook up test leads as specified an post results. Take a picture of these tests with your phone or print and bring with you to machine. Yes they are simple tests, but so is what you are trying to figure out after 40 years of mechanicing. Need to know results before firing the parts cannon. I am sure V-Tech or Nige would agree to these tests along with mg2361. Will wait for your reply. Simon C
9.7-10.0v 0.5-0.6v 110-140mV 130-160mV 150mV switched 63mv unswitched 170 mV This is power wire feeding display module. Is that right? This is an open cab so this is without the blower on.
Okay. You did the necessary tests and your battery held up under load but not sure if your cranking speed was high enough. Your ground cables look to be all okay. Forgot to ask to test from starter frame on clean steel with Red test lead to center of Battery Negative with Black test lead while trying to crank. I am not at your machine and not sure if you have a starter to Battery Negative ground strap. That is why I am asking for this test. So you had a code F9C4, am wondering what it is for and whether it could be causing some problem at ECM telling it not to Send power for fuel. Also the fact that the ECM is showing 15 volts in Post#9 makes a person wonder if something is wrong there. I am not sure what the book minimun crank speed is suppose to be so wonder if starter is possibly starting to go and maybe not good enough connections inside to spin fast enough. Wonder if it would flash up if you blasted WD40 into the air intake with filters out while it is cranking. Cause you say unit turns over at 160-170 RPM in post #9. If it flashes up it would point to fuel problem or ECM controlled Fuel problem. Hoping mg2361 will see what I posted and maybe something I have missed. Will have to think about it. Simon C
Monitor lost communication with the ECU. If battery voltage drops low enough, this could happen. Or, you could have an issue with the battery supply/ground for the ECU. If you see dashes where the rpm should be, stop cranking. It won't start. You need to backprobe and check the switched and the unswitched voltage to the ECU while cranking. Do the same for the ground wire to the ECU. If you need the pin out data for the ECU, shout out, I'll send you the ECU schematic.
Seems like i remember an issue with the crank position sensor connection at sensor causing those dashes and no start but don't bet on my memory being correct on that one.
Testing the from the Negative battery terminal to the ECU plug while cranking I find 9.0v to both switched and unswitched power, and 0.5-0.6 volts at ECU ground J2 I do have it. Thank you
I gave it a couple hits of WD40 and ether and fired it up for 2-3 seconds. I immediately got a new code F490 Which is listed in CTM331 manual as "Pump solenoid severely shorted." I do not find a short to ground in either wire or a short between them.
It is pointing very much to computer control problem or something else we are missing, unless ECM is defective. Thought it would fire instantly on WD40. Just needs computer released fuel. Waitng to see what mg2361 has to say about the new code which I would expect it to make. Simon C
Did you measure resistance from each pump terminal to the case of the pump? A severe short could either be shutting the ECU down, or frying the driver. If the pump terminals have no continuity to ground, then you have an ECU issue.
I checked the pump and there is no continuity to ground on either terminal. I also checked the solenoid and there is no measurable resistance across it. That could be normal I imagine but do not know. Also I switched out the batteries and now have 10.7v to the ECM while cranking. But still same symptoms. Reads 170 rpm for 3-4 seconds and then shows dashes and F9C4 I also got F9A3 tonight
Well the voltage definitly went up, that proves your cables are decent. Simon C
I think you should see a measurable ohm reading at the solenoid. Just a thought.
Green wire and yellow wire twisted pair are can bus, green should be 2.5v or below and yellow 2.5 or above at the ecu and the monitor. Those are the communication wires
Ok I just checked that and 2.4 v on green and 2.5 on yellow. no change while cranking or when the monitor switches to dashes.
Is the pump gear, case cover bore, and bolt pattern the same as the older mechanical 4045? Or would i have to switch the whole timing case to put a mechanical pump on it?
The spec is 0.2 ohms. My money is on the ECU.
I think by this time, most of us suspect the ECU but ruling everything out is prudent and reasonable. It sounds like it should run but has no fuel. I am surprised that the spec is that low for the solenoid but it’s still measurable with most meters. The fact that there is no short to ground at the solenoid is good but I don’t see that happen that often. I do find that the closer to ground you get, the harder it is to read accurately.
Would it be reasonable to take the pump to the local pump shop and have them put it on the bench before replacing the ECM?
Entirely up to you. Note that there are timing pins needed to R&R that pump. But make sure the pump shop is capable of testing that pump before you go through the work.
It’s not the pump, or it certainly shouldn’t be the pump. You are not the only one that has been bitten by the friggin ECM or ECU or BCM bug or every other damn module or compute. This is why some people stay away from the newer machines. Everything is pointing to the ECU or the fuel solenoid. I would make damn sure that solenoid is working because that’s really the only thing that would kill that machine dead, other than the ECU.
I want to verify the solenoid is working before replacing the ECM. The only way I know of I can do that without a spare ECM is to take the pump to a pump shop. I realize everything is pointing to the ECM which is why I sent the ECM off first. I realize that i didn't send it to John Deere and don't have a way to be 100% confident that the ECM is not still the problem even though they said it was good. I spoke to the local pump shop today and they can test this pump.
If they can test that pump, then go for it. Would definitely pay for the R&R if it ends up being the pump and would further point to the ECM if it isn’t.
Yes. I pulled it off last night and am trying to get over there at lunch. It’s about an hour from here and I may not get down there today. The big looming question in my head is whether the go ahead and replace it with a DB4 from a 310E instead of pulling on this string any more.
The current front timing plate will accept the 310E DB4 pump. The current injection pump drive gear has no key way cut so drive gear part # R132267 would need to be installed. The 4 high pressure fuel lines are bent significantly different so they would likely need to be replaced. Would need to convert machine to a mechanical throttle setup.
Thank you Dave. I was having trouble finding out if the gear was going to have to be changed. I was counting on changing the lines and throttle. I’m taking the pump to the shop first and going to see what they find. I’m hoping they find a bad fuel control solenoid that explains the problem. I really appreciate your input
The shop put the pump on the calibration stand this morning and it checked out 100% good. So unless there’s still a wiring issue I have not found, the problem has to be the ECM. Does the monitor get its battery voltage reading from the ecm? I’m thinking the voltage reading high could possibly be another symptom of the same issue. Can a bad monitor cause a problem like this?
While it is not published in the Deere manuals, I would suspect the voltage the Monitor sees is pulled from the Monitor's power source.
Thanks for all the help diagnosing this. I did not actually find the problem although it was probably the ECM. I sent it back to ECM engineering and they confirmed that it worked fine on there simulator. So I went ahead and put a DB4 on it.