Hello - thanks for help, noob skid steer owner. Machine has been sitting since December 2018 so just about 2 years. New 950ca battery, removed starter and all connections, cleaned and dialectic grease, reinstalled and tractor cranks and sounds like it wants to run. Small white puffs coming out of exhaust. All filters were new right before it was left sitting, has hours 2900 and 2900 marked on the filters with date. Interestingly hydraulic fluid was in the fuel filter, I drained it and replaced with diesel as well as bled the filter head and primed it. Inside EMU display doesn’t count off the seconds to start. It either says check codes, 920.05 is the first one alarm low (buzzer was removed) and the other one is for the horn button as it’s missing on the joystick. Not sure if these tractors run with codes but a couple of times it didn’t read any. I’ve also removed all the fuses, cleaned and reinstalled as well as the relays with dielectric grease. I should mention that the tank appears to have a crack near the bottom as it only holds a few gallons before leaking so I am using an aux plastic fuel tank with the suction and return lines going into it. Trying to start so I can raise the boom arms and get the tank out, any ideas on doing that easily with engine off I’m all ears, it’s parked under a hoist. The EMU the readout was between 15-20psi fuel pressure measured although I didn’t watch it while cranking. Otherwise the Display just shows hours with an hour glass, I don’t get any countdown to start. It’s about 80degrees here btw. Air filter is clean, perhaps I need to inspect the intake loop and see if some wasps/Dobers got in there Appreciate any help on what to try next!
Also, I’m curious if a crankshaft sensor failure on one of these machines will block the injection pumps from activating?
Welcome to HEF whereisd ! That concerns me. Make real sure you have good fuel "all" the way through the fuel system. You have no engine codes, active or stored? If you hold the menu button for 5 seconds you can get into the service mode. Double check the active/stored codes. Clear them. Then crank to see what comes back, if any. Then go to diagnostics and then to fuel pressure. You should be able to crank the engine and watch fuel pressure at the same time. If not then put a mechanical gauge in there to see what you have. You should have 0 psi if just sitting there or was that just after cranking? It will make cranking time much longer but should still start, but those sensors (crank and cam) will throw a code if they are an issue. Can you read rpm's in the dash while cranking?
Mg2361 thanks for the reply I have no rpm readout while cranking, that’s why I thought crankshaft sensor. I pulled it out, cleaned and reinstalled, connections looked good. Didn’t know what the resistance test was for this part. Fuel pressure was observed right after cranking and was dropping it does zero out, how much pressure is ideal? I’m running completely on a new aux tank and the return fuel line is running into it, I’ll check my fuel again and replace, some of the atf has got to be in there and it’s only 5 gallons. I can see how to view the previous codes but haven’t been able to get anything to clear. I’ll write them all down and post. thanks again!
2500-3500 ohms. If you follow the procedure I gave above on accessing the service menu you will see a choice for clearing codes. But write down all the codes found first and post. 7 cranking, over 25 running. Should hold about 4 psi for at least 15 minutes.
Mg2361- appreciate the help. Yes so I took down all the codes, cleared them out. None of them came back. I watched the fuel system pressure build up from 0 to 23lbs then back down when I stopped cranking. I had a friend watch the return fuel line and no fuel is coming out. I removed the return fuel line from the T at engine and the one that wraps around that also comes out of the engine, neither of these had a drop of fuel come out. I pulled the fuel line that goes into the engine from the fuel filter and fuel is there. I’m looking to see where the clog is, are there check valves? Otherwise my friend who’s a heavy diesel mechanic said the engine sounds like it wants to start but isn’t getting fuel. Mind you I didn’t leave this machine in this condition just bought it this way. Perhaps someone’s idea of cleaning out the system was to put Hydraulic fluid in the filter, I’ve read some guys thought that was a good idea. I suspect that the crack in the fuel tank coupled with the wood chips and dirt surrounding the tank have definitely contaminated it, that could be playing a part in what’s going on. I am using a clean 5 gallon tank to fuel from. Thanks again for any input.
Looks like the check valve on the T doesn’t open until 29lbs psi, the injector bleed off isn’t putting out any fuel if the injectors aren’t working, that points to the governer that runs the pumps?
Did you buy this machine in a non-running condition or did it run when parked? Any of the codes engine codes? Check cranking speed. If below 250 rpm it won't start (and the cam sensor sends erroneous signals below that rpm). You may want to remove the check valve just to make sure you have good fuel through the rail. Then put the check valve back in (I would recommend replacing it anyway because they have been problematic). After cranking (or priming) and sitting for 15 minutes did the fuel pressure maintain 4 psi? Crank the engine to get it to 20+ psi (or use hand primer). Then as soon as you are done cranking (priming) pinch off the supply and return lines. See if the system holds pressure. If not the injection pump O-rings are leaking. If so then release the supply pinch to see if it holds pressure. If not the check valve in the filter head is most likely the culprit. If so then release the return line. Obviously that would be a check valve in the return line issue. Post results.
Yes I purchased this machine in non running condition. It was a United Rental’s machine that a wood Mill was leasing, the wood mill ended up having to buy the machine because of the cosmetic condition, leaving the engine side panels and letting it fill up with wood chips around the fuel tank and engine. Here’s a copy of all the codes. Looks like the engine temperature codes at 2899 were the last ones before they serviced the machine. The radiator appears to have been replaced.
I will check the fuel system as instructed and see if it holds the 4 psi pressure once I’m done with the tests.
I checked all the lines and some of the hose clamps were loose. I checked the system after cranking and it settled to 14lbs for an hour before I left. I missed the step on clamping off the lines, Tomorrow I will do that and report. I put a new filter on and for some reason had trouble getting the system to prime using the filter head pump. I took it all apart and still no luck with it after pumping for 5 minutes. Once I started cranking the engine it builds pressure and I confirmed that pressure is building at the outlet of the filter. Yesterday it built pressure by pumping. Where is a good place to buy the check valve T? Is the filter check valve serviceable or is the whole head replaced? In terms of codes the only one that came back is the 920.05 for the alarm. Thanks again!
I’m thinking the check valve in the filter has already been removed as I didn’t find in either the inlet or outlet elbow
If your machine is holding 14 psi for an hour I wouldn't worry about the fuel return check valve. Most likely there is not an issue with drain back holding that much pressure. So you can skip pinching the lines. That procedure is just for isolating fuel pressure drop. The check valve in the filter is not in the fittings. It is a little rubber check valve under the hand primer. Check that cranking speed. Has to be over 250 rpm.
Cranking speed is good. Doesn’t register on screen but it’s moving. What I’m getting now is code 100.03 oil pressure high, checked oil level and it was easily 3-4 qts over. Guessing it’s leaking internally, I’m going to test the oil on some paper towels when I get back and see if I can see a halo of diesel fuel around it. How relevant is this info?:
Correction engine oil pressure high voltage is the definition of the code. I’m wondering if the injectors are fouled.
It's not. That video is for a mechanically injected engine. Your engine has electronic unit injectors. It has no rack. That code is an electrical issue, not a pressure issue. An ".03" code is a value that is "out of range high". Basically the ECU is seeing voltage that is higher than the sensor is capable of providing. An open signal wire or a signal shorted to power can cause that code. Does it smell like fuel? Might want to have it sampled.
Ok that makes sense, thanks for The feedback. Oil doesn’t smell like diesel, I checked for that on the dipstick early on. The viscosity doesn’t appear thin, It drained slow. Perhaps overfilled. I’ll test the oil In the manual here it points to the low pressure fuel pump as a possible source for fuel in oil. With overheating as one of the last codes before it sat, a cracked head seems plausible, Once I’ve exhausted the easy stuff I’ll pull the valve cover if it’s even removable without Pulling the engine. I’m running out of ideas on what to do. Let you know what the oil says.
Here’s a post my buddy sent me, someone that had a similar problem: http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=59614
Your code lists engine temp moderately high. That should not crack a head. I don't see extremely high listed so you should be good there. Once you are confident that your fuel system is well bled, full of good fuel, good fuel pressure, cranks fast enough and still only smokes white while cranking with no new codes then pull the valve cover (it can be pulled without removing the engine). Then look to see if it has bent push rods. Has anyone used ether on this machine?
I have not used ether or any starting fluid of any sort on the machine. I’ll see if the two codes 920.05 and 110.03 will stay permanently cleared, as of now they seem to keep coming back.
Then I will pull the valve cover
110.03 or 100.03? 110.03 was not on your list.
Thanks mistyped, it’s 100.03. How likely are the low pressure pumps to leak on these? Still looking for a place to test the oil. Should be able to get the valve cover off tomorrow and look for anything obvious. In this other thread I shared a guy let his machine sit and had a broken pump that was seized up, you’d think the others would pump if that was my problem. Guess we will see soon enough
The transfer pumps on them can leak fuel into the oil and they do occasionally fail. As far as that other thread that machine in that description was a mechanically injected engine and I can't begin to tell you all the issues we have had with those engines, particularly the injection system (we have one in the shop right now with broken springs). However with electronic engine like you have we have had a boat load of injector failures but not too many injection pump failures, but we did have one or two with broken springs/seized pumps. With the valve cover off and a good flashlight and mirror you will be able to see all those springs and it will be obvious if one is broken. Unfortunately what we have seen quite a bit with both mechanical and electronic 4024/5030's is a slipped cam gear which is throwing the timing off. That's why I asked about ether. The number one reason that happens. #2 being a seized injection pump.
I see. What is involved in fixing a broken or slipped cam gear? I have a set of new injectors, I thought I’d change those while I’m in there, considering how dirty the Fuel tank looks. Doesn’t sound like timing is off when it cranks and Since I’m not getting fuel out of the injector return I’m expecting to see something pump or injector related. Appreciate all the clarification on the differences in the engines, that helps a bunch in getting my head around how this engine works.
Rods look Straight, didn’t have too much time to look around, didn’t see anything that indicated an obvious fuel leak. I’ll look tomorrow with flashlight and mirror if youll point me in the right direction. I can also pressurize with air as in the manual if that’s a good way To look for leaks
Special tools involved to check and set cam timing. Did you try pumping the primer with the return fittings removed just to see if fuel moves through? Those pictures are ugly ! I think you are going to have more issues than just being able to start it.
It’s pretty sludgy looking isn’t it. Fuel moves through with the ball check T removed, fuel doesn’t move through the injector return. Thinking I’ll crack the injector lines and see if fuel will flow there.
Fuel comes out of the pumps when cranking but it doesn’t seem to be high pressure. If the pumps weren’t getting power I’m guessing there would be a code. I’ve got a new set of injectors, going to pull the pumps and check them for damage, orings for leaks Or would next step to be to pressurize the system?
Looking back on your post I think I understand you mean the springs on the pumps, that makes sense. I’ve cleaned up the mess a little and I’ll get a good light/mirror on those. Whatever is going on is effecting all the pumps, the rods move up and down as normal so cam prob ok?
Correct to both. Could still have a Cam timing issue. Looking into the intake ports, does the engine look like it has been dusted (signs of dirt ingestion)? That engine should have had synthetic 0W-40 put in it years ago.
I didn’t see any signs of dusting - intake is pretty clean, turbo intake looks clean, no noticeable play, Both filters are good.
MG- I pulled the back (closest to front of machine) pump and injector. Pump spring fine, compresses by hand with some good force applied so I can see it’s not stuck. Wondering if I should pull all the others or just start getting ready to pull the engine. If you have any other suggestions please let me know. Also the best way to pull the engine front or from back, I have an overhead hoist. With engine out what do you think on cost to have someone reset the cam timing? I’m probably going to look to have someone with the special tools and experience do the engine work.
All the pumps can be pulled to be inspected. Just make sure to mark them to return them to the same cylinder if you are reusing them. They are calibrated so the ECU knows which pump is in which hole. As for pulling the engine, that is entirely up to you. It gets removed out the rear end. If someone had asked me if they should buy a "D" series that does not start I would have recommended against it. Now that your committed and after I saw your picture of the rocker arm area I would suggest pulling that engine, completely tear it down and clean it thoroughly. After the engine was out I would remove the fuel tank to clean that too. I also wouldn't attempt any engine work without acquiring the manual CTM101019. If you go that route then I would replace all the pumps and injectors. Bear in mind if that is done then the pumps need to be calibrated (lots of numbers would have to be taken off the pumps). So a dealer tech would have to do that unless you know someone with the TEXA software. Also a dealer tech would be required to check cam timing due to the special tools required. At this point I'll bow out. Good Luck! If you have any other questions shout out.
Thank you MG- I’m committed now! No regrets, this machine has AC and heat, with cost to buy the same machine here I’ll prob still come out ahead and I’ll definitely know the machine! If you come across anyone who works on these engines in the Austin area send them my way.
Update to the thread: After removing and inspecting the rockers, lifters, injection pumps and injectors here’s what the the no start situation was from: A few stuck lifters and falling inside the roller part of two rockers caused the valves to stay open on atleast one cylinder. White smoke was observed coming out of the intake side of the head and rockers weren’t moving correctly. After soaking the engine in diesel and all rockers rods and lifters, and changed all lifters that wouldn’t bleed down or were sticky, reassembled and was able to get engine started. new valve cover gasket, fluids new valve cover gasket fluids, filters and fuel tank heat welded, Engine running smoothly! Hope this helps someone experiencing similar problems. MG thanks again for your input, turns out on this model steer the rear fan assembly and cooler mount can be removed with very good access to the front of the motor so timing could be done from there, also with heater core / fan assembly removed Access is very good to the top of the motor. I was lucky to have my tank repair area on a flat section that was easily accessible and repairable. I did suck out the tank and flushed it a couple times with diesel. Pretty impressed with how this engine runs now, had the help of local mechanic, helped to have two people on this job as well.
*galling inside roller of rocker arm
If you would a copy of the manuals shoot me your email and and can email you them .
Thank you Tool King- That request was on another thread from another member, you sent me those a few weeks ago, much appreciated, it was a huge help!
Ok .No problem .I just saw this post today and did know I already sent you them .
What's all the yellowy gold coloured stuff in there?
Bumping this thread, a customer brought us 2 320Ds w engine dissembled, engine is rebuild now and we installed the best 4 individuals fuel pumps there but we didn't know about they needed to be calibrated, what's the best way to do that?
Welcome to HEF panaceirl ! Before assembly, the dealer could have given you the numbers off the injection pumps and which cylinder they were assigned to from the machine or engine serial number. Now you would have to open up the engine and remove the pumps to get the numbers. I don't believe all the numbers can be seen with them installed. Then once you have the numbers off the pumps and which cylinder they are being installed in, then you need either the dealer, or maybe someone with Service Advisor, Texa or Jaltest diagnostic software to calibrate them. Make sure to not swap ECU's. Keep the original ECU with its original engine. Also, since the engine was apart and reassembled, did you collapse the lifters. If you did not then you will most likely bend one on startup. They have to be collapsed every time the rockers are removed. If you give me the machine serial number and the engine serial number I can tell you which pumps are supposed to be in what cylinder when it was originally built (so long as someone has not swapped them in the past).
Thanks for the fast reply, we actually build one complete engine from the 2, we had so many missing parts, skid steer(1) we using the entire engine but pumps and ECU are from skid steer(2) cuz skid steer (1) didn't have them and was the most complete one to assembly, I'll get you the pictures of the engine and chassis from the donor skid steer which we took the ecu and pumps
And yes we drained the lifters according to manual before installing the rocker arms, since we got the engines already disassembled we didn't know which pumps came out of their respective cylinders,
I know it's an old thread. I have an electronic 4024 in a generator. I'm getting the 80 volt injection waveform to all cylinders but have not had the time to verify it's in time. Site is a long way away and time on site was limited. I have confirmed the low fuel pressure side is supplying the 30 PSI into the head. I'm getting no fuel out the unit pumps ( I removed the line between the pump and nozzle) have you seen a slipped cam gear result in no fuel flow? If the fill phase was occuring when the pumps are being actuated I would thing that would cause no fuel to flow. Just looking for any information before* go back. I plan on checking timing with an in cylinder transducer . Any information is appreciated
Welcome to HEF jjesse47 ! Instead of piggy backing this thread, you should have started your own thread in the generator section. Also, a complete engine serial number would help. It is possible. If the cam gear slipped enough, the pump plunger is pumping fuel at a different time as to when the electronics command fuel. Any pushrods bent?