I bought a 1980 jd 410 backhoe from an auction. It runs great. The backhoe hydraulics work great. But, the loader hydraulics doesn't work. No change in sound when moving the level to work it. I haven't changed any fluids, filters or relieve valves. Trying to get some research before I dive into it. Any suggestions or ideas ? I have read on this forum that if the pressure is low, there is a priority valve that shuts down the loader but let's the backhoe and steering continue to work. But member sold backhoe before finishing it. I have mechanical skills. Been turning wrenches for 40 plus yrs. But not an expert with hydraulics. I have changed many hoses in the past but even anything like this. I will attack any project if I have a lil bit of inside of what to look for. Not scared of anything. Thank you in advance. Reply Quote 1 - 1 of 1 Posts Write your reply... Recommended Reading Husqvarna 6127 re-power help, kohler to briggs Pit Row 0 425 Y yardwork1 · updated Jun 30, 2017 JD 210C only forward, no reverse. Construction Equipment 0 885 D dirty_d · updated Aug 8, 2013 2005 TC55DA Hydro leak help Ford/New Holland Tractors 0 1K A armentroutkt · updated Aug 4, 2008 GR2110 hydraulic deck malfunction Kubota Forum 3 2K F fishman25 · updated Jul 12, 2015 Another newbian need John Deere Forum 4 692 J Josh V · updated Oct 27, 2010 Home About Us Terms of Use Privacy Policy Help Contact us RSS VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo
It probably doesn't matter much in this case, but never trust the year given with equipment, go by model number confirmed by serial number. Or a picture of the machine and component. Assuming this is a JD radial piston pump, and you should be able to tell just by looking through the front grille at the hydraulic pump. The priority valve functions as you say, it shuts off the flow to the loader valve to preserve flow for steering and brakes. If the pump can't reach full pressure, the priority valve will never send flow to the loader. So, basically your pump is not putting out enough pressure, either the oil is leaking away faster than the pump can pump it, or the pump is just not capable of reaching it's rated pressure. Priority valve is not typically the cause of low pressure. The easy way to figure out which it is, wait for the coolest morning you're expecting, start it up and let it idle without moving any controls, go around the machine with a non contact thermometer and see what gets warm first. The pump, backhoe valve, priority valve, which hoses? follow them to see which component is making the heat. Do a little searching on closed center JD radial pumps, it's a simple system but different. When you understand how closed center works, and why this JD has standby pressure, then you'll understand the system enough to take a swing at it.
Welcome to HEF RebelRancher ! If it is a straight 410, then you need to acquire the tech manual TM1037. Like Delmer said, post a picture of it and/or a serial number.
I sent a pic of the metal tag on the right side frame above front axle. They said it is a 1980 jd 410. I can't figure out how to send pic here. 410D 351965T is the stamp info on it. I was told that john deere made a mistake and stamped D on it. I have a copy of the original invoice. Sold in Jacksonville, FL. Sold date March 30, 1980.
I sent a pic of metal tag to Local JD dealership.
I bought a JD 510c that had some major issues the largest of which was the Hydraulic pump. I believe your machine has a similar pump. Delmer was excellent in helping me rebuild my pump as I didn't want to spend over 6 grand for a rebuilt one. If memory serves me , the front bucket is linked with the transaxle while the hoe is a separate system. This gives priority to the wheels over the front bucket. I would check the fluid levels and clean the transaxle screen. Then see if it improves, but I'm not any expert . Delmer is and I'd trust his judgement.
The loading bucket is lower than the tires. The tires are 2 inches off the ground. Shouldn't the fluid is relieved out of the cylinders by moving the level in either direction? It won't do anything with engine on or off. Almost like a valve or solenoid shut somewhere.
That sounds weird to me. The stabilizers won't go up or down without hydraulic power from the engine running, but I've never heard of that on the loader. Does the bucket tilt do anything? it should lift the tires higher up off the ground if you dump, and tilt back also. maybe MG knows what's going on with that? he's the real expert on most things JD. Just thinking out loud, even if the outlet from the loader valve was blocked, the loader should still drop with the engine off? or maybe not? In any case, I'd do a basic inspection of the plumbing, to see if there's anything that looks out of place. assume nothing at this point. Does the backhoe have enough power to lift the rear wheels and stabilizers off the ground with the stick vertical? If it does, then I assume you have enough pressure from the pump, so maybe there is an issue with the priority valve, or plumbing. In addition to the temperature check, you can get a feel for what's happening from the sound of the engine as you use hydraulics. At low idle you'll notice the load variation on the engine the most, the manual even has a test that disables the governor in the injection pump, but you can hear the load at idle if you know what you're listening for. The hydraulic pump should not be operating with no controls moved so the engine should be smoothest, there might be a ticking from the hydraulic pump. If you operate the stick in or out, the pump will start flowing oil so working, and loading the engine. But when the stick hits the end of the stroke, or stalls, it should take the load off the engine just like if the valve was centered. If there is enough leakage to keep the priority valve from allowing the loader to operate, then the engine will be under load at idle even with no controls activated, and operating the stick will LOWER the pressure, so lower the load on the engine. of course that's less helpful if you don't know what the engine is supposed to sound like, so the temperature gun is an easier way to get a rough idea if something is wrong.
Sounds like the pressure control valve might be stuck closed. The first thing that has to be done is check both the charge and standby pressures at the hydraulic pump. Is this it?
The rear stabilizer legs will pick the rear of the tractor up with no problem. The engine doesn't change idle or speed when trying the front levers. The tilt up or down and lift up or lower does not work. I had the tractor sitting on a ground with the bucket hanging off about a 1 ft drop off. I pushed the lever once forward and the bucket lowered about 2 inches. I even tried to lift the loader bucket with another loader at the same time moving the control lever. To try to get the bucket up enough I can drive it. I thought by moving the lever. It would release the press off the cylinders. I guess not.
MG 2361. That is it.
The loader not moving with the engine off almost has to be load locks, did this come from govt agency? Not related to this problem I'd guess. The engine won't change speed unless you install the test plug in the injection pump, if that model even has that. The engine will only change sound a little as the hydraulic load is applied and removed. the key is understanding how the closed center system is supposed to work, and how it works when it's NOT working.
It came from a Public agriculture auction. Not a govt auction.
Here is something I didn't mention. I forgot about this. The right tilt cylinder line where it bolts to the cylinder. That fitting was bad and broke. So the hard metal line runs down the right arm to the tilt cylinder. It wasn't hooked up. I crank engine and hydraulic fluid came flowing out of it. A nice flow. Filled about a 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket within a cpl mins. It flowed out while me not messing with the levers at all. It did come out a little strong when I moved the lever. .os this a sign of clogged filters or screens ? Do u need to unbolt the lift cylinders and see if I get flow there too ? Should it have flow with the engine running ans no levels moved ?
I'm not sure how you can say something doesn't work when the lines are unhooked? fix the hydraulic lines and then see what happens. None of the leaking means anything to me, besides you need to fix it.
I do have them fixed. But the loader bucket will not move. I need it to move so I can move the equipment. It is sitting on my wife's beautiful St. Augustin grass. She is ready to whip my @$$
On my Kubota. I can lift the bucket with the engine on and then shut engine off. I can then move lever and the loader bucket will lower. But the jd 410. I can get it to move at all. Also on my Kubota. I can pick the front tires off the ground with the loader bucket with the engine running then shut engine off then move lever and the tires will go back to the ground.
See my first comment on post #9.
With a gauge ? I don't have a way to check the PSI but I have a neighbor that is a forklift mechanic. He may have one. Or can I remove the line and see of fluid is pumping out with alot of pressure?
Just a thought, In order to get the tractor moved, crack the hoses that go to the cylinder...make sure you catch the oil as not to hurt the wife's grass. once the lift cylinder hoses are loose use the other tractor to raise the boom, and away you go...a happy wife is a happy life...
Why does this sound like a couple of hoses are crossed?
Swetz, I thought of that. I already spill hydraulic fluid on the ground. About a 12 inch circle. Grass is DIE !!! If I can get it up. I will cut a piece of angle iron and stick it between the cylinder and the arm to keep it up.
That corsed my mind Vetech. EVERYTHING is suspect with this one. Any fitting with the paint scraped off is highly suspect. also anything clean, or different paint color. The temp gun test is easy enough, even if it takes some time. Getting somebody to help with a pressure test is a good step. If you can get a helper, you can feel, or even see the hoses jump with pressure, but only if the pressure changes. All this is easy to see by verifying on the working backhoe. EDIT, have you confirmed that the valve spools are moving? it would be easy to disconnect the linkage and still feel like it's moving.
I have another working loader. I will check it out. Ppl talk about checking Temps. Is the temp going to be higher at a troubles spot ?
Swetz, which line do I crack? On which end of the cylinder. I would assume one line is for lifting and the line on the other end of the cylinder is for lowering .
Well, the cylinder rod needs to go out in order to lift the bucket, but, there is oil on the other side too. So, in order to let oil out on the rod side, you need to let air in on the blind side of the cylinder...short answer...both ends of both lift cylinders....remember, this is only to move the machine, you still need to troubleshoot as the others have chimed in above!
Ok. I thought so. Both ends. Yes, I will try a few things members here have suggested. I will get it over closer to the pole and work on it. Let u said. Happy wife. Happy life.
Update, I drove it off wife's Beautiful St. Augustine grass. Front loader bucket still on the ground. I loosen the lines on both ends of both left and right lift cylinder. Some fluid came out of them but very little. I tried to lift the bucket with my Kubota loader. The back tires come off the ground on the Kubota. The john deere loader never moved. Could the cylinders been locked up and not be able to move ? I don't see a locking mechanism on the lift arms.
Yes, if the cylinders had salt water in them for an extended time, they could lock up. OR, if they had load check valve added to them, they would be locked up without pressure from the machine. With the hoses removed, you could add a pressure gauge to the end of the line and see if you're getting any pressure from the control valve. Only one hose needs to be removed to measure pressure. One on each end of either cylinder will let the cylinder move because the cylinders are plumbed together. Lift the loader with a jack, and see if the cylinders move, or the wheels leave the ground. Or get somebody who knows what they're doing to look at it. This is far past the normal course of things, something is messed with, or you're overlooking something obvious.
I wouldn't think they have salt water in them. The backhoe and legs work great. Isn't it the same hydraulic fluid system that works both Front and rear ? I'm thinking about removing unpinning the front cylinders on one end to see if the bucket will move. I can slide the cylinder left to right about 1/8 inch where it attached to the lift arm. So, that tells me that that isn't any force of pressure on them. Do u know the weight of the bucket and lifting arms ? Is it possible my Kubota isn't strong enough to pick it up? I have a L2850. It is rated at 2000 lbs.
Yes, the same fluid and pump operates the front loader and the backhoe. I would think that Kubota would lift the bucket, you only have to lift the bucket and half the loader boom, the other half is supported on the machine. But lift the bucket with a jack, and see if the wheels will drop when you activate the cylinder if you want to know.
I will jack up the loader bucket and see if the front tires come off the ground. I have 2 20 ton jacks. That should be enough jack to pick it up. Early, the tires was off the ground for almost a week before the cylinders leaks down. If I loosen the lines I should drop insteadly.
Did you operate the control valve lever for the loader while trying to lift the bucket? even with the cylinders locked up, the bucket should move a bit just with the slop in the pins. You should see that movement when using the jacks, but I'm not sure what this will accomplish at this point. You need some pictures of the cylinders that won't move and lots of other pictures of the hydraulics, or somebody to look at this in person. Again, this is way beyond adding some fluid, or checking a certain valve or coupling. it could be simple, but not simple to find without seeing it in person.
With the engine running and the all the lines loose at the lift cylinders. Nothing happened when moving the levers. No fluid going too of leaving the cylinders. I even loosen the nut where is comes out of the control box. Just a little oozing comes out. I definitely, not getting fluid coming out of the control box. My main concern is the lift the bucket enough that I can drive it to a shady place. It is in the mid 90's here is Florida and it has zero shade right now. Even if I have to unpin the cylinders and wedge a 4x4 between the loft arm and the front axle to keep it up. The sun is killing me. Them I can figure out if i am getting fluid to the control box. If so, maybe a bad box. If no zero. I have to back track more to find the issue.
I found the issue. Bought a parts manual and a shop manual. Found a picture of the priority valve in the book and searched under the tractor and found it. There is a bolt I had to remove and then a long spring. There is support to be a needle/ piston in there too. Couldn't find it. Turned engine over with the key as my brother held rag over the hole. Some garbage came out including hydraulic fluid. Put spring then bolt back in. Bingo. Got tilt and lift on front bucket. Very Impressed how easy it was to do. Thank you all for the info.