I recently acquired a John Deere backhoe 410E, MFWD, year 2000. I noticed that there was a problem with the ride control. With the ride control switch OFF, the loader would not hold the front end off the ground. According to the manual – With the ride control ON the front end of the machine cannot be lifted off the ground with the loader and stay in the upright position. The front end of the machine will drift back to the ground. To hold front end up while using the backhoe, turn the ride control switch to OFF. The hydraulic pump was rebuilt just before I acquired it. The first time I was using it, (the loader) it seemed to do OK for the first ½ hour or so, but then the engine stalled. It started back up, but with the shifting lever in neutral, and hydraulic controls all in center position, the engine bogged down several hundred RPMS, with black smoke coming from the exhaust. When I would tilt the bucket or raise and lower the boom, RPMs would increase, and the black smoke would clear. After a minute or so, this condition cleared. The machine stalled twice after that, with RPMs dropping and black smoke, and cleared up after a minute or so, while using the hydraulics. While the engine is running with the RPMs at half throttle or more, I’m hearing a whistling/hissing sound. When the hydraulic controls are moved from center, to do a function, the noise goes away, and engine speed increases about 50 RPMs. Move the hydraulic control back to center, the noise returns, and engine RPMs drop about 50 RPMs. This noise may have been there from the beginning, I’m not sure. The machine does not have the lifting power that it should have for this size of a machine. The engine needs to be at least half throttle for the hydraulics to lift or move, with the bucket empty. The loader will pick up a full bucket, if the dirt has been loosened, but digging into a bank, moving the controls for the loader up, and back and forth on the bucket tilt, it is slow, and low in power. When using the stabilizers for the backhoe, to lift the back wheels of the ground, when moving a stabilizer down, it will lift it a little when it reaches the ground, but takes a long time to lift it completely off the ground. Both these examples are with the engine speed at full throttle. I saw a chart of the individual hydraulic circuit cycle time specifications for this machine, for the loader and the backhoe functions, and this machine was two to four times slower, for each function. Wondering if anyone has had similar problems, and the solution for it.
Welcome to HEF John ! First a serial number. Sounds like you have several issues here. Let's skip the ride control for now. Why was the pump rebuilt? Were any pressures checked when the pump was rebuilt? Who rebuilt the pump, a reputable hydraulic shop? Was the filter changed? Filter cut open to inspect for debris? You say the machine has black smoke until you stroke a lever? Sounds like you are under a hydraulic load. After double checking that all your levers are in the neutral position look for the "Tee" fitting on the right side frame under the machine just behind the loader control valve (I think). Remove this fitting and inspect it for debris. It is a load sense check valve and if this machine has had any failures in the past or hoses coming apart, etc, this check valve will get clogged and that can keep the hydraulic pump either "in stroke" or prevent it from going into stroke. I posted a parts page picture below. So lets check that fitting. Also check hose #9 attached to that fitting that goes to the hydraulic pump and make sure it is clear. Cut open the hydraulic filter and inspect it for debris also.
Thanks for the information. The serial number is TO410EX891524 A little more to the story - I'm a missionary working at a mission hospital in Togo, Africa, and am involved in several construction projects at our hospital, and in the area. The backhoe came from a used equipment dealer, and they went over it thoroughly, so we would not have to deal with problems when we got it out here. They changed hoses, filters, fluids, rebushed and repinned the bucket, etc. They took quite a while to do all that, their reason for taking that long, they said, was because it had hydraulic issues. As stated before, the first time I put it to use, I had hydraulic problems. I emailed the dealer about it, and was told that they had the same problem when they acquired it, so they had the pump rebuilt by a local mechanic who has worked on heavy equipment. The mechanic put an inline filter in the load sensing line. I took off that line and filter to see if there was any debris in it, but it was clear, and the oil looked clean. I left off the filter, to see if that might be contributing to the problem, but nothing changed. I'm not sure if any pressure checks were taken prior to rebuilding the pump, or how extensive the rebuild was. It is obvious the the pump and controls on the side of the pump have been painted. I agree, the backhoe seemed to be under a hydraulic load when it was smoking black and RPMs dropped. I was told that these machines have had problems with the stabilizer control levers or extend-a-hoe lever not being in the neutral position. I checked those, and all other levers, and that was not the problem. I have not had any problems with stalling, black smoke and the drop in engine RPM's since the day I was using it, but I have not used it much since that time. I've mainly only started it for testing things. Hydraulics are always slow, and I hear the hissing sound. I'll try checking the Tee fitting and hose that you pointed out. I have a lot of things on my plate for the next couple of days, so I'm not sure how quickly that I'll get to it. We previously had a 1975 550 Ford backhoe, which had several issues and finally bit the dust. I have done a lot of work on that in the past, but it was much simpler to work on. This closed-center hydraulic system with load sense, etc. are new to me. We do not have pressure gauges, flow meter, scanner, etc. for the 410E, but I am working on trying to get these out here to help in troubleshooting.
I took the Tee and line out today. There was no debris in the check valve or line. I blew them out, but saw nothing. I can hear the ball moving in the check valve. I took the screen out of the hydraulic tank fill tube, and attached a picture of it below. It appears the oil was very hot sometime in the past, and melted the plastic at the bottom of the screen. Not sure if the tank has a screen at the bottom before it goes into the pump, otherwise, these plastic pieces scattered throughout the system could be causing the problem. John
That they could.