Anyone here have any experience with the JD 950J Waste handler dozer? We currently have a 98 D7R with Waste Handler package. This next budget year we have a new machine budgeted and current thinking is we would stay with the Cat. John Deere however has stepped up and now makes a real waste handler machine. Our previous machine was a standard 850B with a trash blade. We had many issues with it, mainly because it did not have the guarding and cooling options needed in a landfill application. I really liked the hydrostatic drive and the full power to both tracks when making a tight turn - almost zero turn which was handy in tight spaces. The D7R was such a huge step up in comparison since it was 12 ton heavier so traction was vastly improved as well as pushing ability. The D7R has not been trouble free either though, we have had electrical and transmission issues corrosion related failures. Even their trash core radiator we have had to replace the radiator cores once because of corrosion/plugging due to the work conditions. I should mention it is a C&D landfill although only inert materials, primarily sheetrock and asphalt roofing are the 2 major items we see. Sheetrock has dropped dramatically with the economy although roofing has stayed the same and even increased with people re-roofing their old house instead of buying new. With less sheetrock there is less dust which has been the biggest problem with corrosion/radiator plugging. On factor I see is high track vs. low track - High track tends to be a whole lot easier to keep clean as well as clean out. The John Deere is a Liebherr based machine but looking through their literature the specs are pretty impressive when comparing to the Cat D7R Series II. Other than about a ton less weight on the JD the specs are really close all the way down the list. I figure there has to be SOMEONE on here with some experience and perhaps more can chime in on other considerations we should evaluate. What say you? ..Jay
I'm typically a big JD supporter, but for any of the Liebherr machines I can't recommend them. Of course you will get great support on them, I'm assuming you'd buy from Pape, but their reliability is very questionable. Still a huge improvement over a 950C but not great by any means. If you can get by with a smaller machine an 850J is a good choice.
So what reliability issues are there with Liebherr machines? We had an 850B and it was an OK machine but we need a 60K class machine due to traction issues. The JD Waste handlers are only available with the 950J and 1050J the 850J is not an option either way.
While I understand you are looking for a larger machine than the 850J, it is none the less available as a waste handler. While it is smaller than the D7R, I know from personal experience that one will out push a D6R. After my very limited experience with a 1050C, I would lean towards the Cat, even though I know they have come a long way with the J series. I don't know if it's available as a waste handler, but you may want to look at a D7E.
The major areas of concern are the hydrostatic and electrical system. The hydrostatic components are made by Linde and are very expensive to repair. Also, to second alco, the 850J is available as a waste handler.
so what land fill do you work for here in oregon???
I don't want to sound negative, but all I have heard is personal preference not facts. The comment about the hydrostatic being exspensive can be argued with the parts of the torque converter. If I was going to buy, I would at least ask for a demo of standard units that I could do some comparison dozing and turning. See if the local dealers will give you a 950 and a d7 for a few days. I would set up the course and also check fuel. Now you have my opinion for what it's worth.
Well we already have a D7R (1998 era though) so I am pretty familiar with that. The comments about the the 850 - It's not a heavy enough machine for our application. the 850 has plenty of HP but without the weight it just spins the tracks and doesn't push. We had an 850B to start out with, which was replaced with the D7R we have now. The additional 23K in weight meant FAR more production. We can push out a totally stuffed full dumping pit in 4 hours that would have taken at least a day and a half with the 850. The D7E was talked about but the premium in price outweighs any savings we would see in fuel economy something like 20-odd years and since it is new I'll let them work the bugs out first @trainwreck - Browns Island in Salem..
Am I the only one here with seat time in a 950J? The machine I was just a std unit but it was a great machine. I like everyone have my gripes about the Liebherr problems with this machine. I'll start with the good, pushes like no 7 can... these dozers push like an 8. Once you get used to the 950 they are a great machine, tons of power, responsive, easy to work on and quiet, and by quiet I mean if our 7R was sitting beside it idling you couldn't hear the Deere at full throttle. You can run that dozer with the doors open and its just as loud as a new 7R is with the doors closed. Like I said I have gripes though, I wasn't a fan of the cab, and that machine had some serious issues with blade drift but thats since been solved. Most of the operators at that company hated the dozer because it wasn't a Cat. The door handles are also kinda cheap... cheap to the point the door won't latch sometimes. But its easily fixed.
Thanks for the input burnout, and great pics too. Interesting to get another viewpoint from someone that actually has some seat time. I'm still curious about the Liebherr problems though - It just sounds like they have some (unknown to me) built in issues and I'm really curious about that... Can anyone shedsome light for me?
I am a firm believer that if that dozer had more influence from Deere, it would be by far a better machine. It's not made for the north american market. It's a great machine but when you compare it to the 850 you see the major differences.
I can address the oval track opposed to the high drive issue a bit. If you push anything like a mattress you will know what happens to seals on the final drives. As far as the juice drive opposed to the converter I think that is pretty much about a push, no pun intended. The juice drive will be horribly expensive if anything goes wrong. On the other hand I haven't seen or heard of big problems with multiple users. The new 7s are generally differential steering and the machine will do anything the juice drive will do. Undercarriage life is probably the biggest dollar cost you will have outside of fuel. I have not seen any Deere undercarriage last as long as any comparable Cat undercarriage. Since you have a Cat already you know what your costs are for that machine. Perhaps you can make the Deere dealer guarantee the same cost including labor to change. That also goes for any problems with the final drive seals. My biggest bias is how long you are going to run the machine. If you run to rebuild, say 12,000 to 15,000 hours then the Cat comes out very hard to beat. If you run 5,000 hours and then turn them back you might get a great cost per hour on the Deere. I usually forget about my personal biases and only consider the numbers when making a decision on iron. It sounds like your are doing that here. Good job.
John, They address the final drive seal issue on all of the Waste Handler packages. Cat I think has the best system wire would have to make 4 90 degree turns to get to the guard packing and then 2 more 90 deg. bends to get to the final seal. Mattress wire is no big deal, heating duct wire is the nasty stuff. Went trough a few final drive seals in our old non protected 850B years ago. The new John Deere has a similar setup, but it has an oil filled guard so that if wire does get to it, it will drain the oil in the guard notifying the operator via a warning light. 12 years on our current D7R we have never had a wire get past the final guard. we ill likely be the 5000 hour people, as we put very few hours a year on our machine. I'm just really curious about the JD machine as Ii loved the hydrostat in our old 850B it really was a zero turn dozer where the Cat differential steer takes some back and forth to get turned around in tight places.
if you are looking at trading at only 5K hours you need to know up front about the resale value of that deere dozer. Ask around and find out for sure, not just what you hear on the internet. This may or may not matter much but you are talking about a large amount of dollars so take care. Just sayin..
Understood. Our D7R we have now is 12 years old and has about 3800hrs on it. We refurvbed it once but they still did not address all the issues it had and now it is just nickle and dime stuff and service is out here way too often it seems.
If you are looking resale go to MachineryTrader and look up your machine, then compare it to the comparable Deere at the same age. That should give you a read on that issue. Good Luck!
Wait 3800hrs and 12 years old... that thing is almost brand new....do you guys only use it on sundays?
With the downturn in the economy we only push about 1 day a week for the past 2-3 years- usually 4-5 hours/day in the winter, Summer might see a couple days of the same hours/day. Problem is it pushes a lot of sheetrock and that stuff corrodes everything. It's still a good machine but the boss is sick of it constantly having little things go wrong on a monthly basis. It really needs to be pulled down and a refurb done to it (transmission has some shifting issues) Just discovered a possible seal gone in one of the finals one side had over 2 qt's too much oil in it. Have a call into the local service people to check into that. We were going to do a refurb, but with cost of the refurb, transport and rentalof a machine while ours gets worked over it would not be a whole lot more to just get a new machine. That's what they are telling me anyway. I'm not going to argue with gettting a new machine .... heh
If there is anything specific you want to know about a 950 just ask and I can most likely tell you.
Here is something to consider on the 950J vs the D7RII. Caterpillar has been very public that the electric drive D7E will eventually replace the D7RII. What I find interesting are the benefits that they are advertising the D7E has over the D7RII. 1. An "advanced" low drive undercarriage design for greater machine versatility in wider range of applications. Visibility is also improved along with serviceability to the power train components. 2. Tilting cab provides easy access to drive system components. Their modular design further decreases removal time. 3. L-shaped push arm bring the blade closer to the machine than diagonal brace designs, adding to the D7E's excellent maneuverability and machine balance. 4. All of the D7E's daily service points are logically grouped on the left side of the machine. Most are accessible from the ground level or located in the engine compartment. 5.Wider swing out doors make getting into and out of the cab easier and more convenient 6. The foot pedal is no longer an engine decel pedal. Instead it is a travel-speed control . Depressing the pedal will slow the tractor from the set top track speed down to a stop without changing the engine speed. The brake is applied only when the pedal is fully depressed. 7. The D7E's engine runs in a narrow rpm range between 1,500 and 1,800 rpm, instead of between 1,600 rpm and 2,200 rpm from the D7RII. Because it's driving a generator instead of a powershift transmission, the D7E's engine doesn't need to rev as high or lug down as low. 8. The D7E replaces the D7R's torque divider and powershift transmission with a hybrid diesel-electric drive train that includes a generator, electric motors, and power electronics. While the D7E's electrical drive components are technically very advanced, in comparison with the traditional drive components they replace, they're mechanically much simpler. There are no friction clutches, for example, and fewer moving parts overall, The D7E doesn't even have a driveshaft, and it uses no engine belts. It all adds up to less parasitic power loss and more efficient transfer of engine power to the ground. 9.The electric drive system put engine power on the ground more efficiently than any other drive type. Plus, there are no gears to shift and no clutches, so operation is smoother and easier. 10. The D7E's updated differential steering system can perform counter-rotating turns and locked-track pivot turns, where one track slows down to a complete stop as the other continues. This capability greatly enhances the D7E's maneuverability and versatility. 11. With no gears to shift and easier engine management, the D7E helps cut training time for new operators, so they can get up to speed quickly. Experienced operators also quickly learn to take advantage of the D7E's smooth, precise control; quick response; and consistent, dirt hogging power. Other than the slightly difference in efficiency between electric drive vs hydrostatic drive....ALL of the "new" and "improved" features of the D7E have been features of the entire Deere dozer line for years. So the question I pose, if all these things are so awesome on the D7E over and above the D7RII and all of these features are one in the same as the 950J....what makes the D7RII so desirable?? Not to mention that the D7RII is still at the T-II emissions level while the 950J is a T-III machine, which might play into the local governments decision for emission reduction in the area. Given all of the above factors, I find it hard to believe that Caterpillar feels that it can justify a $600K price tag on a machine with the same features of a Deere machine that has been on the market, proven for several years. For my tax dollars, I would push for the 950J.
I've operated the new D7E and it is truely awesome. It pushes like a D8, turns fast, it's quite, has awesome visability, and burns ~20-30% less fuel. I've also checked out the new D7E Waste Handler and, in my opinion, it's has the best waste guarding package that CAT has ever designed for a dozer.
pushes like an 8H? It should, weight and hp are very close to the same. Compared to an 8R the new 7 would look like a......7. I really wish all manufacturers would produce machines in a specific and unchanging weight/hp class so we would have a good idea about what it would do from the getgo.
the facts are we have a 1050c here, not a j but a c. and it has been a nightmare. stay away from the 950/1050 deere is the facts.
Guessing you work for Lambrecht? As for the D8 man you seriously have a new machine. Taking it out of comission for a week and doing some service on it would be your best and cheapest option. Even if you have to Rent a machine for a day or 2. We have some D8R's with 25,000 hours on them still in great shape because every other year for winter and go through them. Being sat over 90 percent of the time I can see why some of the seals are leaking, probably drying up.