I started this job for a fast food rest. the end of last month. Good little job - demo, undercut, export and import. It's the biggest job I have landed in the last couple of years and I am glad to have it. First the fun part - demo. The building was 85x40, wood framed structure, slab on grade. Over the years this building housed a bank, dry cleaners and it's last tenant was the local Boy Scout Troop. I punched a hole in the side of the building with the T250 to strip the ceiling grid out and collect copper. The building had wood trusses so the side wall of the building was not load bearing just the front and rear walls were carrying the load, so this didn't create an unsafe condition. I have spent the earlier part of my career building buildings but it so much more fun to tear them down!:avid Interior demo. I wouldn't have normally done this due to the fact there wasn't that much copper but I was waiting on the Gas Co to kill the service. Loader demo pic of after I set the roof on the ground. I used the 953 to put the building on the ground, yes a trackhoe would have been easier but I don't have one at the moment and this is a "Run whatcha brung" operation. I punched out the side walls with the loader and then the front, leaving the corner intact. Then I just pushed the corner in and the roof laid right down on the ground. I have used this technique before using the T250 to demo a garden home where they wanted to keep the slab. A friend of mine shot video of the operation, when I get it I'll post it on YouTube. Building on the ground, now the expensive part - load out. There were 10 - 30 CY cans total, not including the slab. I bid 12 so now I have a little change in my pocket. Slab removal. The slab was a simple turn down of 12" with a 4" floor slab. The loader took care of it with ease. We hauled the concrete to the local city ballpark where they are filling a ravine to add another field. Win-win situation.
The geotech report said undercut the building area 4' and re-compact. OK no problem...well until I started doing it. They didn't bore close to the building nor inside the building. Starting the undercut. It got real soft real quick. The area was previously filled with a heavy clay material. More on the quality of the existing material in a future post. I didn't get any better. The loader buried itself and I had to dig out behind it with the T250 to get it out. I dug up stumps and logs from underneath the parking lot. It's amazing that the asphalt held up for as long as it did. The geotech said we could use shot rock to bridge the muck. I dug down another 2', to make the total cut 6' or so and started trucking it in. Luckily they are building a new high school less than a mile up the road and they have excess rock to get rid of, to the tune of 100K CY . This area was extensively mined for coal over the last 100 years, both underground and strip operations. The high school site had 1M CY of material to move, it's more of a mining operation than an excavation. At one time they had a liebherr 992 excavator on site loading 85 ton trucks. Fossils in the shot rock, clearly seen after 4" of rain we had.
Maybe it's just my twisted imagination, but I've got the mental image of "hold my beer and watch this!" stuck in my head.
LOL! There were no beers consumed or hurt in this operation...well at least during, quitin' time is a different story. I prefer to either work or drink, won't do the two at the same time - it's counterproductive on both fronts. My liver gets nervous on rain days...:cool2
Yep, we find fossils in limestone shot around these parts as well CM. Nice little project you got there.
CM Nice to see you have something to do besides work in the garden!
Thanks Willie, I worked on getting this project for several months. The owner/developer has other properties and projects so it's a lead I have been nurturing. The 1 to 2 day jobs are OK and pay the bills but I am programmed to do more. Thanks Jerry!:drinkup It's nice to be back doing what we do, although my garden has taken a turn for the worse - no time to tend it. Gardening is my hobby but moving dirt not only pays the bills but gives just a little more satisfaction.
Just a qeusiton CM, couldn't you drive over the concrete and crush it up enogh to use as fill material and bury that as well instead of hauling it out, or didn't they allow you to do that?
The ball park where we were dumping is a very short distance from the site (we can get 2 + loads per hour) so it was easier and faster to just haul it off. My 953 wouldn't have crushed it up very well and I wouldn't won't to put that much wear on the undercarriage. We are using the old asphalt as fill in the rear parking lot.
Ugghh....If doesn't stop raining I will never get this project done...
Little did we know.... You can see from the pic where the 953 got stuck and I pushed it out with the bucket. At that point the operation switched. We can pull the D5 out with the 953 (which we had to do) but can't pull the '53 out with the D5.:cool2
Nice project CM, am glad to see you busy. That muck looks to be a challenge, here in Missouri it is so dry that you get dust at the 4' depth. All our crops are drought stricken and to add insult to injury the wind blew what little corn yield we had down on the ground.
CM- nice work..always fun cleaning those tracks after that. nothing a trash pump and a 2" hose with a fire nozzle won't clean up though.
Thank ya'll for the kind words JBHASH and CD! I have some more pictures of this job, just need to get them off my phone. The GC is now forming the slab and roughing in the under slab utilities. We ended up renting a 319DL to muck out the entire kitchen area of the building. There was a good amount of haul-off and stone brought in to bridge the muck. When I get some time I'll post some more pics. We are getting ready to run the storm piping and then blue top the parking lot.
I guess you really wished you had that 315CL, you've kinda been looking for, now. I had a D5M stuck in the mud once. It was nosed in and I had to dig it out with a shovel! Imagine trying to dig that muck out from under and between. That was a miserable 3 hours. Good to know that you got a good job. I was thinking that you had been busy all summer. It has been a good summer for us, and fall is getting congested.
Yes, I do. I don't like rental but in this situation where an unexpected issue came up and it was T&M over the contract price, rental worked in a pinch. I do like the newer E series cabs on the excavators. This D had an E cab on it, looked goofy but it was comfortable. I am working on selling some of our underutilized equipment in order to purchase a 315C/D L. If I would have had a hoe, I could have put some money in my pocket on this job instead of sending to Cat Rental. There have been a few demo's come across that would require a hoe as well. One just can't be competitive in res. demo renting a hoe. With the "feast or famine" (emphasis on famine) work load over the last year, I am not in a hurry.
I'm always wondering where the point is to pull the trigger on a new machine. The scenario you had was perfect for a short term rental hoe. If you had owned a hoe, that had been mostly sitting until this situation appeared, that "money that you could have put in your pocket, instead of sending it to Cat Rental" would have gone to the machine OH instead of linning your pockets as profits. I have been told that utilization of 800 hours a year is the point at which purchase, of a new machine, makes more sense than rental. I would guess that this might also apply to a relatively new, late model, machine as well since they don't usually offer the same incentives (ie financing) to help with cash flow. For me, my 315 is the most heavily utilized machine I have. I would think that the D5 you have would have low utilization. I know that the dozer can be the most effective way to move dirt, but the hoe is so much more versatile. Since you already have the track loader can't it pull double duty by doing the lions share of the dozer work (I know they aren't the same but it can do the ME work). I don't know what type of soils you usually encounter (mostly rock free clay from the pics you've posted before) so the dozer probably makes more sense. Most everything I do requires digging through dirt that contains a lot of rocks and boulders. Not optimum for a small dozer, nor a large one for that matter. I rent the small dozer when I need one. I may not be as competitive, like what you described, unless I can rent for longer terms or if it's for a unique job that competitors might be afraid of. I have had my 315 since Dec. of 2003 (bought new). It now reads about 5400 hours, so in eight years it reveals a utilization of 675 hours a year. According to what I heard that is under utilized. I guess, for me, that rule does not apply, especially now that it's paid for. Once I bought the machine I was able to be competitive on many more projects. My client base, and business in general, grew many fold. In retrospect it was a good decision. When I bought it, the excavator was the machine I rented most. Often, one was not available when I needed it. I calculated that, with the money I was spending in renting an excavator, at the time I was renting for 6 mos a year, I could make a years worth of payments, and the machine would be at my disposal for the entire year. When I looked at the long haul (life after payments) it made even more sense to buy. If the excavator even came close to the life of my 416C TLB (over 12,000 hours now, 10,000 hrs then) I would be working a machine for many years without a payment. I must admit that luck had a hand in things too. I had 2-3 crews running at the peak of things (I think it was '09 for us). When things slowed down I had to reduce my manpower but profits increased. I had less work but I had much less OH because the equipment payments were dropping off (at one point my nut was over $10k/mo). Without all the payments I saw no reason to sell eqpt. Even though it is still depreciating in value, the value for me is still having the tools that allow me to perform the widest variety of work. Without having a payment it made sence to me. My last purchase (33 payments ago) was a used 3yd loader. It was such a good deal, and again, was the machine I was renting the most. It is definately under utilized but it couples well with the 315, though a smaller unit would often be better as a mate for the 315, and I figure that it will last me 20 years or more. Now I would like to have a small dozer (D5G is my preference right now) and a ride on, ~5' wide compactor (convertable). Since I already have the loader (can manage the fills well enough) my priority would be the compactor. In a perfect world I will wait until the loader is paid for. If the right job comes along, and I find the right compactor, I can see myself pulling the trigger. My biggest concern is trying to keep a fleet, that is not made up of old junk which requires too much effort to keep running, while keeping the OH low. Currently I have (5) tractors, (2) pick-ups, (1) dump truck, of which I have (1) payment (the loader). I have ordered a new P/U truck (current Ford F350 w/ 270K miles) so it will be payment #2. I am also considering a newer crew truck, but it won't be new. The current one is a bit roached and thus not so good in the image, or morale departments. It has been a good year, and I am running 2 to 4 employees. I have confidence that it will continue to be good (thus the new truck). Obviously this factors in as well. Wow, sorry for the long winded post.
Thought I would give an update. The project is wrapping up and we are grading for curb and gutter. I picked up digging utility lines for the underground electrical and plumbing plus some misc. grade work for the GC. These are from August. Hauling in shot rock. The asphalt in the background was rubblized and used as fill in the rear parking lot. Pushing in the initial shot rock. The geotech approved using shot rock to bridge over the poor soils. We had a source very close by at the new high school site. This proved to be not the best solution. We filled the undercut area with shot rock and performed a proof roll with the geotech present. There was one small area (25x35) that pumped. Geotech said cut that area out 3-4' and bridge it with rip-rap. That is what we did. This only opened Pandora's Box. There was a tremendous amount of rain here during the month of August and that only worsened the situation. Once we undercut the failed area and filled it with rip-rap, the perched water surrounding the undercut basically turned the underlying soil into pudding. The rip-rap would roll like a wave as the loader ran over it. The stone didn't move individually but moved in a fluid unison, which was not good -5' below FFL. More to come.
That truly looks like some poor soil. I am amazed the geotech let you bring it back up like that. specially with all that oversized. 8" is where they draw the line with us. nice to see you are busy regars, cd
A few more pics - Dirt doc said dig out what we put in and find a hard bottom. The bottom ended up being 20 FT deep on average. This was a T&M job at this point so "it is what it is". Called the Cat Rental Store and had a 319DL sent out. Decent machine. Loading muck out, there were 226 tandem loads of haul off - Excavation underneath the building pad where the kitchen is located - At 18-20 ft deep we ran into buried trees and other assorted trash -
We have done a few jobs that you find all kinds of stuff like tires, logs and building debris but not as deep as yours. We can usually find clean material about 5 or 6 feet. Chris
I would love to know the history of a site like that. Who...when...things of that sort. What a mess CM.
Yeah it was a mess OldandWorn but a good add on to the job. I found out the history of the site from the bldg inspector who I have know for many years and the past landowner. There was a draw that ran through the back of the lot in the '70's. The only building in the area during that time was a U-Totem gas station that the previous owners Father built. Over the years, the draw was piped and fill was placed in. As we all know how the "I have a hole to fill in, dump for free" sites go, it was hardly regulated what went in and of course no concern for compaction or organic materials - it's just the way it was done. I found out after we completed the undercutting that the other buildings "upstream" had the same work done to get them suitable to place a building on. It's always a challenge on infill sites, you never know what you will find. The previous building was a light weight wood framed building with the load spread out over a slab on grade foundation. There was 4-5' of decent material bridging the muck so there were no problems, as the building floated. The new restaurant is a much heavier building (40K lbs just in the structural steel) with a brick facade and heavier live loads on the building slab. It was worth the owners time and money to dig out and prepare a proper pad to build a $1M plus facility. This location is a prime spot in a suburban area with a high traffic count so they should make up the overage rather quickly.
Didn't you say that the GC had formed up to pour concrete for the slab where you're digging? That's a lot of haul off. Were you rained out a lot in September and October as well? At least it's a change order and not in your lap. What kind of fill material can you go back with?
That's where I am at now. I had my Cat salesman run some numbers on a 320E and 321DLCR. I have owned a 321 before and know the machine, it's a good tractor. However, I do not like the new E's. It was $1850 a week to rent the 319. Trading in a backhoe and forklift and going through a Cat Financial lease for 4 years with a 5K hour power train warranty is $1900 a month for the 320E and $2,000 a month for the 321. That has me thinking and scratching my head. The only problem I have right now is the economy - I do not have the confidence to sign on the line when the work is sporadic. If I had enough work that required renting a 320 sized machine for 1 week of the month, then I would sign on the line but right now the work is just not there. Rental fits the bill during these times for me, however I plan on it changing and adding an excavator to the fleet, I am a glass 1/2 full type of guy. The D5 is pretty highly utilized in my work. The reason why I keep it around is it's low cost of operation. The maintenance, UC and fuel consumption for what it can accomplish is more profitable than the 953. The 953 is a fuel pig. The loader is a jack of all trades so it earns it's keep even though it will run through 40-50 gals a day if worked hard. A typical job for me (including this one) is putting the loader in the pit loading trucks and the D5 on site spreading the fill. The loader doubles for demolition, as was the case in this job. The soil conditions in my area vary greatly. From sand to heavy clay to rock. The area I live in is where the Appalachian Mountains meet the coastal plain. Sites vary in composition within miles. I really have to know the area and what the soil type is when bidding a job, rock and unsuitable soils clauses are the norm. Taking a line from Forest Gump - Our sites our like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.
I have been lazy these pics are from August. We had a tremendous amount of rain in August, which didn't help this site. For two weeks the first thing we did was unload the pump and dewater the hole. I hate mud pumps... The building I demo'd had a monolithic slab on grade, which was easily tore out. Yeah, undercutting/poor soils excavation is always a clause I include in the contracts because I run across this situation from time to time. It's a nice T&M add for the jobs that require it. After we "plugged the hole with rip-rap and #2 stone, we imported a nice red sandy silt material to fill to sub-grade. This material compacts and blades nicely, handles water as well.
Now it makes sense. Hopefully you and I can get a new economy after election day. Glad to see you've got a bigger type job.
Hi CM excellent pictures and a good thread. I can understand putting clauses in contracts for poor soil conditions and undercutting when doing demolition work. I worked on a few jobs in the past including a parking lot where we ran into thick layers of yellow silt and the GC who bid the parking lot job had to haul in large quantities of 6" rock to build it back up, plus I discovered a large fuel tank and a hand poured manhole that went quite deep into the subgrade. I don't think they made any money on that job. lol Even though I live in Canada this particular province seems to have gotten itself into a bit of a recession I've spent a good part of the work season sitting on my arse looking for work and doing odd jobs now I'm hoping we get a fair bit of snow as that's guaranteed work cleaning streets and parking lots.
D9gdon, yeah I am planning on the economy improving one way or the other. Over the years I have done everything from fill in holes in someone's yard to having a job that lasted 3 years, moving 3K CY a day. The restaurant site jobs are probably the sweetest gig around. I have done large hotel sites, taking everything outside the building on - only to be free supervision and the bank for the GC in the end - if you get my drift. These small sites are perfect. The GC's want you to take the erosion control, demo if any, grading and storm sewer. Their plumbers install the sanitary/grease trap and water. The GC also has his concrete sub do the curbs and his own paving outfit. This works out perfect for me as I find it hard to make money on top of another sub and be competitive - it was hard back when the economy was good. The only problem is you have to travel somewhat to follow the business. 245DL, I hope you get mountains of the white stuff. I didn't know that any area of Canada was in a slump. I have friends in Toronto and Calgary and they haven't missed a beat. I can't believe the GC didn't have an undercut/poor soils clause in the contract. I have ran across bids before where the Owner/GC has a site with know poor soils and wants a hard bid - no change orders/T&M. I don't even bother bidding those jobs anymore as I know I will be high, someone else will want the risk more than I and I am happy to let them have it. As the old saying goes "I can sit at home and be broke, no sense in working towards being broke.
Yeah I'm hoping this isn't going to last long but we had a pretty devastating flood last spring and the current governing party claims that it put us into this situation. So there has only really been one or two ongoing big civil jobs and they haven't done any big highway work here like twinning since about 2006/07 there are talks of some big hydroelectric projects in the north but we'll see if they actually happen. I'm not sure what the details of that contract were but judging by the supervisor's look on his face and body language, some brown stuff that wasn't dirt was hitting the fan. lol