I have a 1994 Kato HD450VII. It has the Mitsubishi 4D31T engine. It's now got 9500 hours on it and I have owned/used it for the last 11 years. I look after the machine/grease the fittings/change oils regularly. I last did an engine oil and filters change around 20 hours ago. Yesterday, having run the machine for 4 hours, it just died on me. I was just moving it and it stopped on a slight decline. It now won't even turn over, but I hear some clicking at the starter relay (but not at the starter itself). All the gauges come on, but I don;t hear the fuel pump activate. Should I? The batteries were last replaced 12 months ago and I had them on charge for 12 hours each. Each one is showing 12.7 volts. I have no clue about cranking amps., but I don't think they are the problem. I ran a wire direct from the batteries to the 24V starter motor and this is what I found: When I touch the top contact/nut, the Stop solenoid rod retract. When I touch the bottom contact/nut, I hear the motor spinning. When I touch them both together, I hear the motor spinning and see the stop solenoid rod retract. I had hope to hear the engine crank. I was worried that the engine may have seized, so I put a wrench on the crankshaft pulley nut and was able to rotate. It wasn't very easy or very hard to turn. Checked the dipstick and the oil looks pretty clean. I have the engine manual, parts manual, service manual, multi meter and a decent wife who doesn't mind offering a second pair of hands. What am I missing? Thanks, David
I think your wire is too small to have enough current to crank the starter fast enough to engage, let's just hope. Since you're not afraid to run a wire, use an alligator clip on a smaller wire and run it to the cab so you can check things with a multimeter from the safety of the cab. Hook it to the small wire going to the solenoid and see if you have power when you turn the key from the seat. My guess is that a wire harness connector came loose, killing the engine and keeping it from cranking? I don't think the starter itself would cause your engine to stall, right? Unless you're low on fuel, even a quarter tank. Can't hurt to check the strainer INSIDE the banjo bolt on the inlet on the bottom of the transfer pump, assuming this is an inline injection pump. Take the banjo bolt out, and unscrew the plastic screen.
Check the master relay near the batteries, probably in the positive from the battery to the starter.
Thanks for the replies. Fuel is around 2/3 full, i cleaned out the strainer when the tank was nearly empty around 50 hours ago. If it hadn't had just died on me while using and the issue was the clicking when trying to start, then I would instantly think of the battery, battery relay, starter motor etc, but this is puzzling me. Before the engine died, it was running nicely, there were no odd sounds or clatering. The only thing I can think of too cause an engine to stop running is either run out of fuel/fuel pump problem or electrical ignition switch turned off/ignition switch problem. I'm hoping that it is a wire come off somewhere, but what wire/connector would cause the engine to stop running and not allow it too crank over. I find it too much of a coincedence to have 2 different problems occur at the same time. I think I will remove the starter and take it to be tested. If the starter tests fine, then either the batteries have lost there cranking amps, or my engine is seized....Would you agree?
That's why I suggested battery relay, some machines nothing works with the battery relay off, sometimes a few items have power with the key on. There's a hot wire to the key switch and the key switch sends power to the battery relay when turned on. It's possible your gauges are powered by the same circuit off the key switch, but if the relay is not coming in or the main power cable to the starter is broken or has a bad connection, no crank and the shutoff won't pull in?
lantaxco thinks better Japanese than I do. I'm familiar enough with the "precious" banjo bolt screen, but I've never seen this master relay (thankfully?). Take his word for it, check that first. Do not take the starter off to get tested, that's ridiculous. Test it as I described. Most likely you're not getting the "start signal" to the solenoid, and it's because of that main relay, or some other electrical gremlin. You were on the right track with the testing you did, just finish testing it. edit: you said the engine turns over, it's not siezed. If you're worried about the batteries, then hook your test lead to the battery and see what the voltage is when it tries to crank, it will be 24 because the starter solenoid isn't even getting a signal, so not even the starter solenoid is drawing amps.
That's funny! LOL Yah, instead of the master switch like CAT used with the forked key, or the one with the handle under the battery box cover like Deere used, almost all Japanese equipment use a key switch activated battery relay in the ground cable or the positive cable, so the batteries are only connected to the key switch BAT terminal when the switch is off, nothing else gets power to drain the batteries when it's not running. Could be the relay, could be a fuse in the relay activating wire, etc., or I could be way off.
Thanks, battery relay appears to be working.
But yet it seems you have no power at the starter? Did you check voltage in and out of the main battery relay terminals? Check that with your voltmeter please, and then the starter at the top post, with the key on. If you have a solid 24 volts have your assistant hold the key in the start position and see if the voltage drops drastically or not.
When you turn the key on does the throttle linkage on the engine governor move to the run position? As I recall that machine has a motor with a big dial than turns and pulls a double cable that moves the throttle lever on or off. I seem to remember the default when things go bad on these machines was to shut down.
Thanks again for your reply, i'll be checking it tomorrow with a meter and let you know what I find.
When I bought the machine in 2005, the APC had been disconnected and someone had installed a twist type mechanism and so the big dial is inoperative, but it all looks in fairly decent condition and so I don;t know why it was disconected.
So are you saying this has been converted to a manual throttle control.
Yes, when I bought the machine, it had already been converted to a manual throttle control.
Damn it, I should have checked the master relay first, you were correct and many many thanks for your help.
:thumbsup