6504-5243 Long time no post! hope all you good lookin dudes are doing well. I know theres gotta be a guy or two who knows these dagum things in and out so i figured its worth a shot! Never had a major issue with this thing, always reliable. The most recent major thing was a year or so ago someone had replaced a blown fuse with a wire and melted down the entire wiring harness...nice. Replaced that with new OEM. and a few months back replaced the auto battery disconnect. Which brings us to now. Operator claims: Going down the road, no issues. All of a sudden the trans malfunction light comes on as well as the action light and alarm and the unit stops moving. He claims the unit then died, but it has no fuel shut off solenoid. Its a manual shut off. So unless it bogged out or something i dont believe it just shut off. Went to restart, no crank. I checked all connections and fuses. Swapped neutral Relay. No change. I can jump the starter and everything works except forward and reverse. All fluid levels ok.
When you jump start you are providing a good power and ground circuit. If anything is wrong with the cables on the positive and negative side you will have exactly as described. Need to do multiple loss of potential tests on your positive side and ground side to find if one or more is junk. How about post a picture of your batteries, relays starter and alternator connections and could offer some tests to rule out faults instead of just firing the parts cannon. Simon C
Start with the grounds their are lots we have had trouble with those on various machines.
Good morning, I had checked all grounds and positive connections and batteries. That was my first clue. Not acting like a ground loss or anything like that. More like a "safety" You can here a relay click when trying to start but i believe one of the neutral relays is preventing it. I was able to get my hands on a service manual but have not been able to get back up to the machine yet. The start circuit goes from the key switch to the F14 5A fuse, to the neutral relay. The neutral relay is also tied to an internal relay in the TCM that will not close unless it senses the trans is in neutral, parking brake is set, etc. It then travels to the magnetic switch and then to the starter. Now that i know all that i can obviously test from each component and will report back when i can. My only concern is the TCM. It makes no sense that this came out of nowhere and abruptly like that unless the TCM could no longer recognize the sifter position. Its the only thing that makes sense. But i see no way to be able to test the TCM.
Checked the grounds as in looking at them or actually removing them and cleaning them? The reason I ask is have seen good looking grounds still not having good contact on these loaders.
All the grounds were recently removed, cleaned, and some replaced with the new wiring harness install. I checked for contact and tightness but i did not remove them. I could double check that again just to cross that off the list. You mentioned having trouble with these machines, did you have a similar scenario?
When i say "jump" i mean jumping the contacts of the starter. The batteries and all are in good shape.
Start circuit diagram for someone’s use in the future.
Yes we were the Kawaski dealer for years and grounding problems seemed at times to be a problem cause their were so many.
How many TCMS did you actually have to replace? Are they known to just go out like that?
Sorry if I used the wrong terminology . So when you jumped the sterter solenoid it cranked over correct? So was looking at your schematic and yes you have multiple relays and some fuses and diodes . At the bottom of the schematic page is fuse F5 that has 24 volts and goes through the Neutral Relay to ground when the shifter is in Neutral. Do you have a 24 volt bulb with a pigtail that you can hook up to the 24 volt feed ( F5 ) at bottom of neutral relay and have that power hooked up to the wire that goes through the neutral relay to the T/M Controller to ground. Does the bulb shine bright. That being said coming out of the transmission Controller will be a ground of some kind that the discussed power has to go to , to be able to close the contacts of the Neutral Relay. When you turn and hold Key Switch to start is there power to pins # 3 and 4 of the Neutral Relay? Need to start somewhere before changing T/M Controller only to find out something else simple is cause. Simon C
I apologize its been a minute. So i went back out to the machine now that i had a schematic in hand and could trace wires and grounds. After some trial and error and some close investigation, i found the parking brake solenoid plug was slightly melted. As soon as i touched the plug the whole plug assembly came off of the solenoid. It was holding on by the melted plastic. Disconnected and tested, everything worked as it should. Was able to manually release the parking brake while parts were on order. Also found that occasionally the unit would not crank unless you grabbed and shook the front fuse panel. Replaced that as well and no issues since.
In the last line of my post I was hoping you would get all the plugs and connections tested out before dropping the hammer on an expensive T/M copntroller. Just found one this morning where a person bought a side by side that 4 wheel drive would not work. Was after I studied the schematic at home too simple. All fuses were good, one diode installed backwards and that's all it was. Owner could not believe. Glad yours is going again. Simon C
Hi @Pete w , I am dealing with this very issue at the moment. It is a Kawasaki 65-TMV. The machine sat for a month or so then when I went to fire it up got the usual click-click of low batteries then the sound of something burning out or letting go. No power to anything then. I pulled everything apart. Cleaned up connections on the relays etc. Eventually found a wire had let go on a solenoid the previous owner had added to isolate the batteries. So I fixed that up. Now I have full power in the cab but it will not crank and an alarm/beeper going off. So I'm trying to figure out if I disturbed something in my initial inspections or have not reconnected the neutral relay correctly. Any ideas or insights welcome. Thanks
Could help you out if you have a good multimeter, or have you figured out yet. The schematic above is probably fairly close or do you have a different schematic. Can give you a list of simple tests and go from there. Simon C
Thankyou very much for the offer. I am hoping to get back to where the machine is one day soon with another person to operate the ignition so I can try and figure out what's going on. I will report back within a few days hopefully. P.S I love learning so, and I'm sure others do too, if you want to put up that list
Will give you a few tests to do when I get back. Simon c
So I am presuming you have 24 Volt starter? Let's test starter to prove it is okay first. But before we go there have you tested all the fuses with a test light, we will need Fuse F11 to be okay, and we need Fuse F14 to be okay, will need Fuse F15 to be okay, will need the 30 amp Fusible link to be okay, Will need the Diode unit next to the Alternator to be okay, along with the 70 AMP Fuse.. There is a Diode at the Magnetic switch also. I suggest you take a picture of these things to check first and scroll up to the schematic in Post #8 above, while moving around the schematic to get familiar with it . Just so you know I just solved one 2 weeks ago that had a Side by Side with no 4X4 for 7 years that new parts were installed , and after studying schematic I went and checked and found a Diode in backwards. So lets check everything one step at a time. After checking all these things lets Check the Key Switch C terminal with the test light hooked up to it while holding the Key in the start position. The test light needs to be 24 volt obviously, and might be good to check a second time with Multimeter Red test lead while putting black test lead to battery Negative post. Should have very close to battery voltage there so close to 25 volts. Check out these things first and then we will do some jumper tests. Be good if you could take a picture of the starter end wiring so as to make easier to explain. Check this stuff first and then we can do more testing. Simon C
Thanks Simon C. I apologise for the slow reply. Weather has made it hard to get to the machine and life has made it hard to get back on to this forum and this task. I know pretty certainly where the issue is. I have to wires with ring terminals at the end which need to find there home. When I originally removed all the relays some months ago so I could clean up the corroded terminals and connections on them I took photos as I went. But in the meantime managed to lose all the photos off my phone. No big deal I thought put it all back together. But then realised I have those @ light guage signal wires left and I cant wrap my head around where they belong. Ill put all the detail in point form below - One wire is solid Black and goes into resin with a bunch of other wires at the bottom of what I think is the neutral relay. It has a ring end terminal on it. -The other wire is Black with Red stripe and goes into flexi conduit with other cables. I haven't yet pulled this conduit apart to figure out where this wire goes to. It also has a ring end terminal. But I do notice a Black Red wire from the ignition barrel on a wiring diagram I found. -Turning Ignition to on seems to function everything properly -turning Ignition to start triggers a solenoid somewhere in engine area (fuel maybe?) but no other functions -If I jump the terminals on what I think is the Neutral Relay the starter motor will crank -So basically I think if I can figure these 2 wires out it will be all systems go. And hopefully the alarm buzzer in the cab stops as well! I just cant seem to find these wires on the diagram.
And sorry, Yes its 24 Volt. Yes I have checked fuses and fusible Links. I have not tested diodes but they are there and the right way around
Well I am not there, so are there any wires that go to ground, pictures might help now . I guess you know that every wire disconnected should of had couloured ty-wraps on them for identification. If you hook a test light to ground and have someone turn the switch, you may be able to sort out the signal wires from main relay power wires. Simon C
I have found an online manual that is a bit clearer. What I have been calling the Neutral Relay is actually the Safety Relay. I've only been able to get to the machine for about 5 minutes in the last 3 weeks. Sorry I dont have any pictures just yet. With this diagram I have found I am hoping to have a better understanding. Fingers Crossed
On the previous schematic that is in post #8, if you took a picture of it and put in red some numbers all over it beside components it would be easy if you posted it up on screen for us to tell you to chech exacly at number ** for power or hook up ground to this spot to see if it works. These are not Cat schematics and most of the wires are not even couloured. That safety relay ( where the schematic calls it voltage relay has the purpose to control ground for the Magnetic switch ). If you did this we would be more able to help. Simon C