We have a 2006 KW 800B and 1995 KW T40 needing wiring color or diagram for electric brake controller for trailers. Any help is greatly appreciated. KW will not assist.
Going to have be a Genuine You built it affair. Will need to feed a Brake Light output off the controller to the Trailer Side Brake Lamps terminal in the cab. Next up need a Brake lamp input from the truck Brake circuit and a Ign ON or Accessory Hot Power from a Fused source as a Fuse Block. Not that hard once look at the systems.
Thank you so much for your rapid response! I very much appreciate the help. Dealerships just would not cooperate and we bought 3 Peterbilts from another that will not give the schematic
Should have received one with the truck when bought. Used to be a auto hand off years ago. Air or Juice brakes?
Agreed. Electric. Thanks again.
On the Truck, NOT electric, Juice or Air?
I’m sorry. Air
Brake light switches should be either on the Tractor Protection Valve or Firewall(Can be Inside or Outside), Will have Brake Lamp ON from the Controller, Output Power to the Brakes circuit(Not thru the Standard Seven Way Cord Connector) and then the Power to the controller from a Accessory Fuse in the block. Should be Optional points for Accessories in the Fuse Block or Breaker panel. A Electric Brake Trailer will generally have a 6 wire small Dia Plug or a Seven Wire Flat Pin plug, will most likely have to add a Separate Cord just for this type trailer. They have their OWN wiring Code and is NOT the same as a Standard Seven Way. 7 Way Diagram - AJ's Truck & Trailer Center (ajtnt.com) Six Pin is more convoluted Standard seven pin DOT Semi Trailer Light Function Locations on Heavy Duty 7-Way Pin Connection | etrailer.com
Another good resource for this information is the PACCAR body builder guides that KW & Pete publish for all the models. The information you seek is in section 6, Electrical. You can download them for free from Kenworth.com. Here is a link. https://www.kenworth.com/media/4311/t170-270-370-hybrid_bodybuildermanual.pdf Good resource for hard to locate info. For example, try to find ride height specs for a T800. Look all over ECAT / E -Portal, can’t find it. It’s in the body builder guide. And it’s free. No dealer runaround.
I guess I confused the guy!!
Girl DMiller lol Welcome to the forum Sandbox Girl.
Better hope those are Dexter axles on those electric brakes, if not TOSS THEM!!!
Yeah nothing like a good thread on brake controllers. I always like the idea trucks that have air brakes can only tow trailers that have air brakes. Electric brakes are for boat trailers behind a pickup. JMO Because your gambling on a wire and no help from trailer on a grade when that connection goes haywire.
It's also cheaper for air brakes than electric brakes when they go. I'm living the nightmare right now with only one direction and that is forward with no way of stopping just as electric brakes when they go. Was supposed to have left out yesterday won't be going for another week or two, two of the electric brake magnets are no good.
Air is better for sure but not possible in all circumstances. My big tag is on air, but I also like the flexibility to pull my small trailer with CTL or mini hoe on it and it has electric brakes because I normally pull it with pickup, I don't want to be dragging around a 40' trailer for a little machine. The trailer brakes failing doesn't concern me, in fact it would be a fair better situation then failing behind the pickup. The only time i've ever had trailer brakes fail is pulling someone else's trailer that isn't maintained, never lost trailer brakes pulling my own, if the trailer is looked after it's not something that will happen often, if ever.
Spud, one consideration IF you keep the trailer, swap to Dexter Air Brake Axles, as another gross failure and time falls onto the equipment you have replace and upgrade to a air system with maxi chambers and all. Actually simpler to set up than would think.
Sorry bout that Many times just reply to post not paying good attention
No sorries allowed. I was merely teasing. Don’t want to dissuade anyone from ever replying.
@Truck Shop I don't want a big electric brake trailer, and I also don't see my~14K loaded electric brake trailer beating up my 25K empty dump truck too much if the wire breaks. I have towed a 20K with backhoe behind a single axle dump, and the equation is flipped there. I didn't care for that so much.
My point about electric brakes is such-Years back about as big a trailer you would find with electric brakes was a 8,000 lb car trailer. But because pickups with diesel engines just kept getting more and more and more and more and more horse power/torque ratings the towing gvw just kept climbing with it. And pretty soon the tough burly guy wearing a hard hat in GM, Ford and lets not forget Gut's Glory Ram commercials were just towing up a storm with a 35' goose neck on TV. So it lended the thinking of {I can tow a D7 around with my big nosed peanut pickup on nothing but juice and electric brakes}. Hence the many discussions on this and many other forums about overloaded pickup/trailer combinations and not enough brakes. Electric brakes have no emergency capabilities or park brake lockup capabilities. What is the common questions asked on HEF? Electrical problems then it's Hydraulic problems. Corrosion and lack of maintenance are the biggest concerns when it comes to electrical components. Now couple that with brakes on a low slung trailer that very few are going to look at or crawl under {50%} are too fat to get under. About the only time anyone looks at anything is if they happen to notice a tire is flat a marker doesn't work or there is a hole in the decking. I have had no less than 8 goose necks of all different GVW's in the shop for inspections in the last 1.5 years {I still do outside DOT inspections} Not a one of them had properly/good mechanical condition working brakes, All had at least one corner that was not operational due to electrical problems. four needed the brakes rebuilt, three had worn out suspension, and five had structural cracks in frame and necks. But getting back to my reference above {one wire, one wire only} . As everyone says your mileage may very.
You get no argument from me on the one wire thing. We move propellers on airplanes all the time, to limber up things when you are not flying, etc. We use special precautions when we touch the prop. Just a little ground wire on the mag is all that keeps you and a little leftover fuel from tossing you into a Cuisinart. Just one wire of two, either one will do. First thing I did when I got hired was test and confirm what you mention above, at least one corner of that trailer was not working. At that point I jacked it up and replaced everything. Everybody sees the new deck and paint, but I did full brakes and bearings, new pigtail to the truck and plug, new breakaway switch ( that was *REALLY* bad ), emergency battery was dead, safety hooks needed replaced. A couple of new skins too. The guy before me did adjust the brakes, but take a meter to the emergency battery was I guess too much. The brakes were original from new in 2006
That's what I'm talking about SK, people have a tendency with equipment like that to use it like a fork lift. {well it worked the last time I used it so it should be ok--that was a month ago}. Tire psi--give it the kick test--yup it's ok. Now how many of you have seen a trailer that you know has electric brakes that the brake lights/lights don't work just cruising down the street. With anything that has air brakes it can or will come in contact with DOT at some point. Plus because it has air brakes and falls under DOT rules it has to have FHWA inspections so the owner has more of a tendency to keep things under control.
All true, and my pet peeve along those lines are RV salesmen who say look at the tire rating, add some airbags to your SRW and you are good to go for your 42' long 3 axle toyhauler. They are likely to be less experienced than you and I, and when the **** less likely to rescue their overloaded situation. My personal preference is to have way more truck than I need. I drive and tow for a living and when I go on vacation I want a light little rig that I can flip a U-turn about anywhere, park in the old campgrounds with small spots, and enjoy myself. Everybody sees my 3500 Dodge Cummins truck and ask why I don't have a bigger 5th wheel. That would make vacation like work.
I could of went down the road with one trailer brake not working out of 4 or two side marker lights yesterday, I'm still here and now waiting on trailer magnet no matter how long it takes. Replaced all the wiring that was fried causing two side lights out, replaced brake wires since I was down there. New bushings, bearings, brakes and now wiring with 4 new lights on the back, 4 new tires and new seals. There is a rare few of us, don't give up on society yet TS. It's pet peeve of mine to have anything half arsed.
the junk that is called electric BRAKES galls my cheeks worse than anything else that rolls
You Spud and SK are a small percentage that look at your equipment. Every two weeks the company tow truck is checked from front to back when it's been setting for any time. Tires checked with a gauge, fluids, wheel seals, lights, brakes and lift operated. I don't want to leave in the middle of the night on a 300 mile tow one way and run into problems. It has to be ready at all times.
Learned my lesson in war, almost got myself and others killed never again it will stick like everything else from there for eternity... Wasn't part of any mechanized infantry nor part of the the motor pool mechanics, just a infantryman that could drive anything no matter what we commandeered to do the mission for lack of supplies. Might not been able to get parts but if I seen it wasn't going to be combat efficient it didn't go on the mission or didn't commandeer it unless we were getting overran.
The inspection part is going to vary depending where you are, here air or electric has no bearing on whether it needs to be inspected, or if DOT will bother you. They will check any rig over even if it's a pickup unless it's a RV. If the rig is over 26,000lbs truck and trailer must be inspected yearly, and the inspection is exactly the same for air as electric brakes. Sure it's one wire, but you can also neglect air brakes. There's still manual slack adjusters here, and if you don't adjust them the brakes can become pretty much useless. About the only difference I see is if the wire breaks you can still drive and won't know until you stop, compared to the air line you will know instantly. Doesn't mean many people wouldn't just cage the brake or whatnot and keep driving. Doesn't matter what trailer it is, before I leave the yard with it I test the brakes to make sure they stop the trailer like they should. As long as that is done, the chance the brakes will fail in the middle of a short trip is fairly unlikely. In the last few months there has been two major accidents, one that killed a lady and it wasn't light stuff. One was a seal failed on a air brake trailer and the two wheels came off and into the hood/windshield of a truck, and the truck didn't even realize it and stop. The other was a convertor dolly detached from the truck went into oncoming traffic and killed a lady. These are both units that are inspected yearly and require a professional license to operate. You hear about the tickets the little trailers behind pickups get for low tires, brakes not working, not tied down properly etc, but I can't say you hear about the really bad accidents resulting from them like the big trucks. I'm not saying they aren't unsafe or those things don't matter, but big weight makes the big trucks a lot more of a safety concern if something is wrong. A 8,000lb pickup pulling a 14,000lb trailer with not great or no brakes is not anywhere near as unsafe as a 20,000lb truck pulling 100,000lb trailer with not great or no brakes. That pickup is going to stop a lot faster. My electric brake trailer is only 15,000lbs loaded, it's not much weight and I pull it with a 5500, unless the road is icy the truck can stop it like nothing and it has almost no change on the stopping distance. While the weight pickups are pulling has increased a lot in the last 10-20 years, so has the stopping power of them. Bigger brakes, exhaust brakes, and transmissions that downshift. It's 2 years old and yearly i've been looking it over really well, this year i'm doing the brakes. I check the tires with a gauge in the fall, and in the spring after it's been sitting for awhile, other then that it's a kick or visual when it's loaded. Yea it has a marker light out, I can't say i'm all that worried. I do the extra look over because it doesn't require the yearly inspection. Other then that, I treat the two trailers the same as far as maintenance.
Question for you, do you believe most of those trailers the problems happened in the last year, or where they potentially like that last year and passed inspection or where they not inspected before? My first heavy trailer tri-axle 53' stepdeck with air brakes I bought at RB, it was inspected 3 months prior and checking the tires there was no wear compared to inspection, and when I actually measured them the tread depth was identical to the inspection. I was dumb and figured the inspection actually meant something. I chose to get it inspected after a few months anyway. It needed all new brakes, kingpin plate was in bad shape, and a bunch of other stuff, needed around $7k in work. But it passed an inspection, how is that possible? And that's not an isolated issue, it happens every single day. Here's my issue, with such a recent inspection IMO the blame is on the shop, not the owner/driver. When you pickup a truck/trailer after getting inspected you shouldn't have to worry for a bit about any major problems, that's why they are inspected, obviously it varies on how many miles you're putting on it. In a year a fair amount can happen, but there's a lot of problems that you know have been there for years. Just because something is inspected annually, even by a licensed shop, doesn't mean it's safer then something that isn't, doesn't even mean it's safe, unless it's actually done by a good mechanic. I personally trust myself inspecting my stuff more then I do a lot of shops around here.
If someone is injured or killed in either type large or small -their just as injured and just as dead. If it was caused by a wheel seal that hub had been leaking for a long time then ran dry, It didn't just fail and wheels came off. Someone wasn't doing the service work and the driver should have noticed oil leaking from drum to tire-a hub holds at least 1lb of gear oil, If it was a grease packed hub the same applies-someone was negligent on the service work. Wheels seals go bad all the time that's why those items need to be checked all the time. period.
Those trailers were owned by farmers and winery's. As far as inspections or when problems occurred hard to answer that. This is the company I manage the shop for-we are in the top 10 safety rating. https://tate-transportation.com/
What people dont understand is that yes air brakes can fail also but the truck pulling the trailer cam stop the load. Around here A 10 wheeler dump truck can gross 25,250 kg and a tractor and two axle trailer can gross 40,500 kg. That means that if your trailer brakes fail you are trying to stop less than twice the weight the truck alone is designed to stop. The f450 towing 15,000 kg has a brake failure and it its trying to stop many times the weight it is designed to. On top of that you add the fact that you cant put enough weight on the pick up to give proper traction to stop and that just adds to the joke. Anyone who argues different is wrong and thats all there is to it.
Electric brakes are a joke. The 12 ton trailer i pull every day has them and evey day i hate them. Everything is expensive on them compared to real brakes. They dont grab as well even when everything is perfect. When magnets get hot they loose magnetism.
If electric brakes were so good those would be on everything. It's a quick and dirty way to add brakes to meet demand and requirements.
Yes but the weight of the truck is going to dictate how bad the accident is. 100,000lbs at 30 mph is going to cause a lot more damage then 25,000lbs at 30 mph. I have no idea, it was a "new Canadian's" truck from what I heard. Many of which they get a truck inspected and then pull the parts off and put it on the next truck.
Thanks for the lesson on inertia I had learned that in my 47 years.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Compare a tractor grossing at 63,500kgs to the f450 at 15,000kgs, the f450 will stop way quicker. Also depending on year, f450 would be good to about 8,000kg, so it's actually trying to stop less then twice the weight also. Also the weight on the pick up, if it's a gooseneck/fifth wheel you bet you can if it is setup properly you can get 25% pin weight if you want, some of weight goes on the front axle. Even on a pintle, a trailer around 15,000lbs will stop perfectly fine behind a pickup. If yours doesn't, there's something wrong. The biggest problem with a lot of lighter trucks/trailer is because they aren't subject to yearly government inspections a lot of people just don't look after them, it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them if they are done properly.
Again it's not worth a reply-waste of time.
Don't worry I had a drink and don't mind enlightening the person in hopes on making the world a safer place in fact I'm going to have fun. This falls on the argument a motorcycle can stop quicker than a car due to weight, what you didn't factor in as most is contact patch surface area and how many wheels you are braking with and able to hold the G force thrust forward to not lose control. A race car Formula car can exert up to 5.7 G's basically 5.7 times more gravity force upon braking as motorcycle can have up to 1G and that is a professional driver to hold that motorcycle in control. How many G's you think that F450 can hold before it rips traction loose on (6) 81.28 max cm diameter wheels versus (10) 105.156 cm diameter wheels on tractor and we haven't began on the brake sizes and other factors.
Of course a tractor will stop more weight, I never said it wouldn't. What i'm saying is, a tractor trailer can weight up to 63,500kgs here. If you go load a f450 to 63,500kgs yea you bet the tractor will stop better. What i'm saying is the pickup is at only a small fraction of the weight, and there is a reason electric brake trailer axles are not rated the same as air. There is a reason not every single truck on the truck is a tandem axle 650hp truck with a 60 ton lowboy. They don't need the hauling capacity. Break it down to tread on the ground, brake surface area whatever you want, there is many cases where the pickup has better stopping power then the tractor trailer. To be candid and this isn't directed at you at all. There is a lot of people on this forum who think if you're pulling anymore then 10,000lbs you need a tandem axle tractor with a 60 ton lowboy and just because they THINK that's what you need it's not reality, nor is it the law in ANY place, nor is it based on any facts, it's based on their opinion. It's a waste of time trying to convince them otherwise, even though there's countless trucks doing so in every corner of the world on a daily basis.
If anyone thinks i'm wrong and wants to put their money where their mouth is, i'll happily meet up with you, you bring the tractor trailer, i'll bring the pickup and a trailer both at predetermined weight. Whoever stops quicker leaves with both rigs. See if anyone is actually confident in what they are saying.
Have my own gooseneck and a F250 Have pulled trailers since I was Sixteen from small boats to Grain boxes or HE and can validate a Corn Queen Loadstar with juice brakes and bias 10.00 20s will stop a 30’ electric brake trailer with no electric power far better that that 250 or even a 350 as to brake size vs tire contact vs dead weight of machine keeping it down A air brake single axle is a far better choice with a air brake dexter axle goose for moving intermediate size tractors or hoes as when the tractor reduces the drives pressure on grade with maxis or air applied service chambers trailer it won’t get scooted down the lane as have witnessed countless small excavation companies fight with. Jacking and blocking is just a excuse to get away with too little too light.
Due to Covid-19 one can't just jump the Canadian border to Canada, I but if you are willing to jump the border this way I will take that offer. You got two choices of states to meet up in Washington or Montana.
ok everybody, calm down. most problems are caused by 3 things. poor operators, inadequately maintained equipment or poor conditions. i classify mismatched equipment as a poor operator/owner. the poor conditions can be somewhat overcome by a good operator. i see a lot of people overdriving their braking capability-- it doesn't matter if its a boat trailer or a fully loaded tractor-trailer super 'B' combination. like i always say THERE WAS NO PROBLEM BEFORE THERE WERE PEOPLE
Sorry, you need to wake up and smell the roses. The comments are coming from people who have been in the road transport industry for more years than you've been on this Earth, and who have learned what works and what doesn't in the school of hard knocks. You don't have to agree with their viewpoint. However I suggest that you should respect it even though it is obvious that you personally disagree with them.
If their viewpoints are so correct, then why isn't it the law in any place? Why does maybe 0.0001% of people follow it, if that? I don't know of a single company around here that would use a tractor and lowboy for loads over 10,000lbs. There's nothing wrong with it. If you or anyone else thinks there is, i've love to hear real tangible reasons for it other then "I have experience I am right" or "air brakes are better" or "a tractor trailer has a lot better braking capabilities" none of those are good explanation for the viewpoint that is wrong. Every single truck/trailer out there has a safe weight they can tow/haul. If you need a tandem tractor and lowboy for 11,000lbs, then I guess you need a tandem tractor, lowboy, tandem jeep, and tandem booster to haul 40,000lbs right? Which isn't even legal here. Just because someone has a lot of experience doesn't mean they know what they are doing. I'm not saying that about anyone specifically, just about that claim that it means anything, it doesn't. I have enough experience to know what I know and what I don't know. I know that people who try to think they know things by claiming they have so many years of experience don't know their head from their ***, the people who actually know what they are talking about demonstrate it by being knowledgeable, which means someone with 5 years of experience could know more then someone with 30 years. I've dealt with plenty of "truck drivers with 20 years experience" who don't even know their truck is legally allowed to haul among a million other things anyone with a few months experience should know. It also depends if that experience came from being an employee, or O/O. A lot of employees drive a truck from point a to point b, don't even know what it weights because it's above their head who's determining that it's legal, and tying it down. Compared to someone hauling their own iron who has to know a lot more because they also deal with insurance, registration, permits, they have to know a ton more. I'm off to pull 16,000lbs behind a pickup and go past scales. I wonder if i'm going to get a ticket because of people's opinion it's too much weight?
I refer you to my signature line below........... thank you and have a nice day.
Stopping Distance =(v×t) + { v² / [2×g×(f±G)] }
You really don't know what you don't know, and I will not know what I don't know until I don't know it.
Wasn't it Donald Rumsfeldt who first quoted "There are known unknowns, then there are unknown unknowns"