Hello, I've got a few topics, 2 machines that are fighting me. I have a kobelco 160-vi [according to cab decals, but I can't find a serial plate to confirm]. I thought it was a dash 4 but Roman numerals are hard for some reason. I've got variable slow machine function, sometimes semi quick, usually slow. Also an arm cylinder that will boom out on its occasionally at various speeds/ positions. Im suspecting the two are at least half related because the rod seal is leaking fluid and sucking air. Unfortunately this machine was abused, neglected, with hack and slash fixes. I have codes for battery relay [it was bypassed], engine speed sensor, mechatro control failure [I can't be sure, but i think since the battery relay], h-4 offset [?] and p1 bypass propo, which from what I understand is the latest and most related code. Things I've done/ am doing: Since I'm not sure on my serial number i can't order a seal kit yet for the arm cylinder. Im not sure if it's a 125 or a 130mm bore until i can take it apart. I've spliced the engine speed sensor [wiring was corroded/ split]. The sensor ohmed within spec, but voltage was 3.5vac. The manual wants at least 4. Im assuming I can adjust sensors depth to get it within spec. I can't however, get to the sensors menu page to see its readout for some reason? I've spliced the governor's wiring. I've replaced a1 [operation lever lock] and a2 [power boost] solenoids as one shorted and the other had deteriorated insulation causing it to have half the resistance making it excessively hot. I've been through almost every spool/relief, but plan to recheck [in case I've missed something] the arm functions, conflux, recirculation, and travel straight after I reseal arm cylinder. Replaced p1 pressure sensor. Checked/ ohmed wiring to solenoids [controller to solenoid plug] Completely rebuilt pump probably 700 hours ago because other had grenaded. [I didn't have any debris when I cleaned most of valve body but possible I missed something as I did this months ago] Here's my diagnostic information at idle: Ym22e0008f1 ver 3.99 Eg set 1050. meas 907 Accell volt 3.5. Pos 83%. Step 280. Pos 8% Step coil a 1.5a. Coil b 1.5a F-2 swing brake comp on. Meas on. Release off. F-3 1/2 travel comp off. Meas off. Switch off. I-2 bat relay comp on. Meas off. Key on. Boom raise 0.4v 0p. boom lower 0.4v 0p. Arm out 0.4v 0p. Arm in 0.4v 0p. Bucket dig 0.4v 0p. Bucket dump 0.4v 0p. Swing right 0.4v 0p. Swing left 0.0v 0p [????] Travel right 0.4v 0p. Travel left 0.4v 0p. Pump p1 0.5v 87p [this fluctuates, with machine off its 57ish always] pump p2 0.5v 14p. Propo d-1 p1 bypass comp 200ma 0p meas 13ma 0p [?????]. Propo d2 p2 bypass comp 200ma 0p meas 205ma 0p. D-3 s travel comp 350ma 100p meas 346ma 96p D-6 arm recirc comp 706ma 413p meas 482ma 225p P1 pump 433ma 164p meas 423ma 155p p shift 0 P2 pump 433ma 164p meas 426ma 157p p shift 0 Mechatro sw run, vol 50%, prog sw off @80% run Eg set 2215 meas 1974 Accell 3.5v, pos 88%, motor step 431, pos 80% Arm out 0.6v 14p [manual states 0.4v to 0.5v, .6 volts is out of spec, it over volts when arm cylinder acts up more or vide versa] Arm in 0.4v 0p. D1 p1 bypass comp 453ma 190p meas 18 ma 0p [????] D2p2 bypass comp 453ma 190p. Meas 448ma 1849 D-6 a recirc comp 706ma 413p meas 488ma 220p [???] P1 pump comp 350ma 81p meas 341ma 83p. Power shift 120ma. P2 pump comp 350ma 81p meas 340ma 83p. Powershift 120ma I excluded the values that didn't change at throttle. So my p1 sensor always has a reading, even at off, of 57 regardless of new or old sensor. arm out sensor usually reads 0.4 to .5v but hits 6 occasionally, also when i end up with pressure on both sides of arm, probably because of air. P1 bypass solenoid wiring is good, solenoid coils ohm good but acts as if it isn't plugged in. Arm wants to wander after I activate arm pilot control once, lock out stops it. It'll vary how persistent and how much flow and this seems to affect machine speed. So i don't know when these sensor readings wacked out. Im assuming some are new and some are old. Anyone have any ideas on what my next item to attack should be besides the cylinder rebuild? Why is my d-1 not giving feedback and why do I report pressure on p1 with machine off or idle? It looks like all arm related cylinders are wonky and im not sure if it's because a1 lever lock went bad and heated the fluid hotter than usual, air, wiring I'm somehow missing, or all of the above. Ps I forget what the actual number is, but both pumps are capable of outputting 3xxx or 4xxxpsi. I really appreciate any input.
You can identify model by its GAUGE CLUSTER as follow images. MARK IV MARK VI
With the monitor display as above. First, I think you should perform "A" Adjustment let "ENG SET and MEASURE equivalent. The "MEASURE" value is too low compare to "SET" value ===> Computer will decrease flow of main pump ===> Performance will be very slow!!
I've got a post change read out like attached. Im using my big brain to assume that makes me a mark 6e? So I should be able to purchase a cylinder kit for a 6e? Which makes me a 90x125mm arm cylinder. I haven't removed the governor or anything they listed. I also have lots of adjustment on the speed sensor and wondering if I can't get the ac output into spec by adjusting distance for magnetic signal since it generates its own voltage. Kobelco wants to see 4vac output, I've got 3.5vac. 4 / 0.5 =8 . So 3.5v is 7 parts, which is why im getting the feedback amperage you're seeing. Using kobelco's reference amperage 7 x 131ma =918ma. 7 x 276 = 1938ma calculates almost exactly to my feedback values. I'll try an a adjustment after I modify sensor distance trying to get a higher ac voltage to avoid possible new problems just in case the machine tries to run too good like a normal machine and causes bigger issues. This machine has no doubt ran at most of these erroneous values for years. What's throwing me off here is flow speed is inconsistent [it bypassing], which I know is related to the arm cylinder/ air / solenoids. I'm just having trouble narrowing problems until I can eliminate the cylinder being a potential issue. Any thoughts on why my d-1 and d-6 are acting like they're disconnected and/ or experiencing current loss? D-1 is most definitely connected to the controller with good wiring. Im not sure where to check d-6 as it isn't directly a solenoid? Or am I wrong to think d-1 is directly tied to a5 [psv-d]? The solenoid and wiring ohms Healthy. I haven't checked voltage. But is there anything im missing there aside for controller being bad? Appreciate the input
You cannot change the output voltage of the speed sensor !!! check again the wiring from the controller to the speed sensor connector, and also check the connectors. I want to remind you to make "A adjustments" even though the speed sensor voltage is not right. D1 & D6 are...
SK160-6E has induction type speed sensor (02 wire speed sensor). The controller uses its frequency signal to process, not using voltage signal.
Hi I suspect your cpu is faulty. I would suggest you forget about resealing the arm cylinder and firstly replace the bypassed battery relay with a genuine one. Then to check problem with p1 bypass solenoid, swap the plugs at solenoid bank with the solenoid next to it, if fault on the dash changes solenoid is faulty if problem does not change check wiring from solenoid to cpu if wiring is OK then cpu is faulty. If you can réad engine rpm on the screen the engine speed sensor is OK. I think the speed sensor, offset and irregular reading on arm recirculation are all down to a faulty cpu. A faulty cpu can cause the hydraulics to do all sorts of weird stuff.
Good day Mr.Kobelco Ireland, So sorry but I think if CPU of machine is faulty then monitor should display "1 MECHATRO CONTR.FAIL". @ Connstellation : Have you checked the "TROUBLE HISTORY" of machine yet? Regarding Engine Speed sensor, I haven't known what shop manual you reference, but I have seen the its checking value is different as you can see below images.
Please ré Read first message mechatro control failure is one of the faults on screen. Also I have come across plenty of faulty cpu that did not display a fault on the dash
Oh!! It's my fault! I didn't read first post carefully!!!
I had to read it myself a few times there is a lot of information to take in. It seems like the machine has suffered a lot of abuse and half ass repairs before this lucky fellow got his hands on it
Yes there's a lot to take in and a lot to be uncertain about. If it matters, the previous care takers had the relay taken out and replaced with a shutoff switch. mechatron cont failure only displays with engine not running. With engine running I get the other errors I listed but NOT mechatro failure or anything related. This is why im wondering if cont failure is a result of relay bypass. We'll find out soon. When I check error history it only has 0-4 hours. Weak batteries right now. But strongly assuming everything but solenoid related codes are years old. I looked at the solenoids and noticed 2 speed [had a 33ohm] and d-6 [16 ohm] were swapped. 2 speed had a 16 ohm solenoid and d-6 had a 33, affecting current feedback. So I also swapped d-1 in the process because I know the 2speed outputs. So d1 bypass is fixed. D6 now has a bad solenoid I'm assuming, weird resistance doesn't factor here for good or bad and 2 speed is same. So I'll pick up a new solenoid for d-6 arm recirc and hope that fixes my automatically moving arm issues if not a cylinder. I modified engine speed sensor. I got it up to 6.5vac but did not see a feedback change. Because it's a magnetic based signal, lowering gap would give a stronger attraction was my basis thinking ac current would scale the feedback. Regardless, I'm going to obtain a new engine speed sensor since the wiring on the current one is pretty at the sensor base and then some. So I think I've solved d1. I think d6 will be fine after a new solenoid since it has absolutely no feedback with d-1's solenoid. The only thing I'm uncertain of is the engine sensor. I'll do an a adjustment if a new speed sensor doesn't pan out. Im still assuming controller is fine. Although wiring has gotten wet and from what i understand the previous 5 year operator hid and spilled alcohol on the casing multiple times, I'm not seeing any reason to jump on it yet until I'm out of other options. Mechatro controller 16-1 goes to the cluster. Im not experiencing any problems there yet. Maybe next week. In short, I have a relay, engine speed sensor, solenoid, and cylinder kit on way. Only thing I can think of next is going through spools hunting debris and a controller but I think I'd be better off beating my head with a stick Thanks for the input. Ps. Any ideas of where I can find kobelco style flat pins for electrical connector repairs?
Hi this new information is better. If cpu failure only appears with key on and engine not running this fault is related to the bypassed battery relay. Solenoid d-6 and the two speed solenoid are not interchangeable. All eight solenoids look the same but there are 4 proportional solenoid valves and four on /off solenoid valve. If these solenoid become mixed up the machine will be a big mess. Look at the picture of the solenoid block that lachau posted for reference. Check the part numbers on your solenoids. Psv-a, b, C, D should all have part number kdrde5k-31/30c50. Sv 2,3,4 should have part number kwe5k-31/g24db50. Numbers will be on silver tag on the solenoid valves. Please check all valves are correctly located in block
Yes the solenoids are sorted out and I have a new solenoid for arm recirculation as the one that I've corrected for from d-1 ohms good but does not output. I will be putting on a new solenoid, speed sensor, and relay hopefully today to find everything within spec, if not, then hopefully after an a adjustment. Question on wiring the relay. Now im no dummy, says every dummy, but I don't have much ignition electrical knowledge. I know it's pretty simple but it doesn't roll off my tongue. Cut me some slack as I don't remember what I have to work with, aside for I know I have two harnesses terminations, a larger 2 wire and smaller 3 wire, which seem to match the one diagram. 1.) The solenoid I've got has a jumper [black wire] from negative to terminal a, do I need that? What is the point? 2.) So im seeing 3 smaller wires in harness and 2 larger wires in harness. 2 connections to terminal b [1 starter 1 harness]. 2 connections to terminal a 1 harness 1 to battery, and im assuming I connect to battery positive on terminal a? Then the 3 smaller wires go to the terminals and grounds case. Am I right, wrong, or missing something? Appreciate the help.
Is that an aftermarket battery relay. It's unlikely its the correct one if it didn't come with the kobelco harness attached to it. I know it looks identical to old one but kobelco battery reply is different to most other machines.
Hi I don't know anything about Kobelco but from what you have posted DO NOT WIRE UP AS PER YOUR SKETCH The original relay as posted has two internal coils. One acting as a pull in coil to engage the relay with a heavy current then this is switched out and a hold in coil is used to maintain the contacts closed with little current used. the terminals L & B2 are both positive inputs to the relay coils and the ground terminal is the coil returns. not knowing the full circuit details I would suspect that L is from a key switch and B2 is from alternator to keep relay alive until engine shuts down (or the other way round ) The relay you have is a standard relay with only one coil and the two lower connections will be pos and neg A circuit diaghram would be a great help as I may be completely wrong Mark
That makes sense. Im Seeing that on the circuit now. Thanks.
I recieved a dud engine sensor so that's on hold. I'll do an a adjustment sometime in near future. All of the solenoids are reading and outputting within roughly 1% of spec. So I've had some trouble with language settings and not really sure how to get measurements back to imperial yet, good ol psi. So im having trouble remembering and correlating info off of the top of my head as I did what and what happened as result . So excuse my lack of detailed information until i can figure out what's next to try again. So what I have now, or rather have had, but more predictable now. 1. The arm cylinder has full range of motion but from all the way in until 90 degrees is slow, hesitant, and interrupted. After 90 degrees it stops. Then I have what seems like full speed motion with full power but kinda sloppy with a quick fall when I go to boom back down. After im about 110 degrees, the arm usually wants to travel outwards on its own, and reflects a small pressure reading of 5mpa, in the past before solenoids I've seen 4ksi. I suspect some of that is at least partially air due to rod seal. I do think the arm out pressure sensor is on it's way out due to previous heat issues and have a new part coming. 2. Bucket is slow both directions. Hesitant to recieve power, sometimes has no power. sometimes it's quicker but I haven't found a reason why yet. I haven't noticed air in this cylinder but this rod seal leaks. 3. When boom is let down, like the arm, it wants to fall like there was air that compressed until it catches itself, not much, but it's there. I have not noticed air in this cylinder and do not have fluid leakage. The boom moves slow and sometimes will lift machine fully, other times it'll get about a foot and labor Arm in 3.3v 30.4M while arm out is 1v 5.8M[while arm out is acting up and im arming down] I haven't seen arm outs full value. D-6 I've seen as much as 41M while fighting arm out creep. Pump 2 [pump with arm out and swing] I've seen normal values of 33Mish at some point, don't recall voltage. However I've seen spikes of 1.1v 111.6M, 0.9v 87m, 0.6v 18.8M. I can't recall what I was doing at time but I do know arm was acting up, I was not tramming nor swinging while those high readings happened. Pump 1 I've seen as high as 0.8v 58M. I believe I was attempting to lift machine. I don't know swing readings, but I believe I have full power/speed every time I've attempted. Keep in mind I've only operated these machines when they've had problems so I don't have much baseline. But it's quick and fluid. I'd consider tram slow, half or 3/4 speed semi labored. Max reading I've seen was either 31 or 33M. So I'm assuming im dealing with hydraulic circuit issues now. Being pump 2 is seeing 14ksi, not to be captain obvious but I'd say im looking at main reliefs and possibly opening arm circuit for contamination. I'll be looking at book and checking out the troubleshoot scenarios in mean time. Id appreciate any input as I was hoping the solenoid swap and replacement would be the golden fix.
Still peckering around just been busy. I've picked up guages/fittings but haven't had a chance to hook up yet. Hoping to rebuild the arm cylinder first. Planning to take apart/ adjust reliefs if needed after getting analog readings. I also have some wiring to go through again, so there that. I've gone through the spools again, everything is snug and smooth except for the arms pool's spring. The inside spring has compressed about a quarter of an inch, which I knew about since first look through but all springs are within spec so for good measure since I was in again I added and secured a washer to stop any possible chatter/ unwanted movement of inside spring, at least temporarily since it isn't fatigued. So the real reason im posting, I was in the menu twice now but can't remember how I got there again, and cant find the resources I had before to tell me how. I accidentally changed language to Japanese when trying to get into diagnostics. I was able to change it back to English. What are the steps to get back into language selection? And how can I change units displayed in diagnostics? As always I appreciate the help.
Haven't messed with the machine much but it's in my nightmares. Excuse my word spaghetti. If nothing else it's a good place to record my horrors for future record. I kept original speed sensor in machine as the replacements I've recieved are only 1.6kOhm. I haven't found one specced for 2.3. Mine is 2.17 kohm so it's in spec, but the pigtail is rotted . So I'll patch that in mean time somehow. I haven't done an a adjustment yet, I looked at the stepper area again and noticed the ball connector broke and someone wrapped with wire which makes me think that was pretty recent to when the machine started acting up, but not the cause. In the next few days I have new linkage parts coming and will be getting to that. I have a couple wire insulation issues to fix, most at the connector. I can't find pins similar to what kobelco uses to completely refit so I have to stay temporary. Almost all readings from display look good now, except for RPM and p2 pressure. I always get a reading of 0 rpm. And I can only view rpm at start up. Is there a way to get into it with machine running because what the book says doesn't work? And where should i start trouble shooting? I suppose at the a adjustment when parts come in. P2's pressure regulator on the pump gives me a consistent reading. It USED to be 0 to 54ish psi. After putting in a replacement arm spool spring [I'm assuming] I've been getting 0-14psi back and forth. That's with machine off, machine on but lever locked, OR machine on and lever unlocked when arm cylinder doesn't want to wander, in which case I see the same pressure, 0-14psi showing on the arm out pressure sensor. I did replace the arm out pressure sensor as voltage was out of spec, but I did not notice a difference and haven't had a chance to run machine without arm cylinder fighting me yet. How should I interpret the pressure from p2 to arm out? Is my spring maybe not strong enough? I picked up a 154 lb/inch spring. When I measured stock they were 100 lb/inch. I believe. Could that be leakage from air via the arm cylinder? I did notice the sensor is caved in and semi crushed so I do have a new one coming in case it's a false reading somehow im not seeing. But I do not believe the sensor is bad due to how similar both readings are on dual pump functions When arm cylinder wants to behave [usually on 70 degree days?], my latest progress is I have full pressure on arm out/in on both pumps. Speed of arm in is slow at about 90 degrees, I'm assuming air equalizing in cylinder right now. But everything else, bucket, boom, track and swing are reduced flow and all max at 425 psi, .The pumps will show varying pressures in relation to what is being done, 425 to 2000ish or something, I can't remember exactly. What might I be missing here aside for an a adjustment/ engine speed or a cylinder rebuild? Im just getting nervous because my list of stuff to fix is starting to run out and. I've seen very little improvement yet. Appreciate the input
Hi in your last pictures posted the second picture shows p1 +p2 reading. Are readings with just key on or functions actived. Cos at 0.5v the pressure reading should be 0.0m. P2 reading of 29.0m is nearly 290bar pressure. Could you post pictures of all sensor readings with just key one and then with machine at idle.
Previous pictures were with functions on and arm out going wild. I've since remedied that I believe with some wiring that I don't believe is relatedand a spool spring it seems. I've never gotten readings that high when system is set to psi [which is what im back to since]. I'll get more readings in a bit because I'd like to have a comparison before and after a adjustment and arm cylinder build anyways. I've remedied some more shorts/ miswiring by pump on both sides but again, nothing im expecting to really see benefit from. Will see today after I get relay on. Right now im working on getting that double positive relay in. I have 3 more connections to make, I know the battery goes on the right terminal and starter on the left. The starter side [I believe] connection i have a 2 pin connector with 16 awg wire I believe that was original to the machine, on the new relay I've got a 30 or 50 amp wire with a large single slot connector. Should I just use the old 2 wire connector on the starter side? Im assuming it's feedback of some sort. Pics attached. I've compared the old double and new single. Pic also shows where it comes off of harness. Luckily all other wiring was there, they just spliced the relay connectors when they bypassed. Does that 2pin go on starter or battery side ? I can probably toss the large connector? Thanks for replies.
This is what I've found in book, and from the Cnh catalog before they took it down. Im actually seeing 3 connections, including starter wire, going from the left terminal. Starter, a misc harness branch, maybe the 2 pin? And it looks like the bigger 2wire computer supply goes to battery side AND starter side but im assuming that's wrong, and harness doesn't allow you to split. Im going to look into book tonight and check wiring diagram more but right now im thinking battery/ double wire [computer supply] connector on right. Starter, original to the machine two pin connector on left. Im assuming I got an updated design or something. Thanks.
Hello, I got the relay on but have a whole new boat to drown on. I'm thinking I'm not hooked up correctly. So wiring A[see pictures] wires 52red 53 yellow on terminal a [battery]. I used old harness on starter terminal for wires 51 green and red because I was shipped a single wire/ connector. Key off I see mechatro control failure and hour meter on without any way to turn off. Key on no start I see at start up heavy lift, then boom raise sensor OR arm out sensor, then swing brake disengage, then kpss disabled. I've toggled both switched by controller and have noted no changes. Key on no start diagnostics show 50 to 70 psi @1.1 volts on almost all pressure sensors . Arm out pressure sensor is new and displays 0 psi and .4 volts. Pump 2 pressure sensor doesn't read voltage or pressure. all measures of current on all solenoids are 15 to 19mA. If I switch kpss pressure and amperage zero out until I switch again. I get a click from a rear solenoid, probably start with key start and glow plug but no attempt to start. I don't see any voltage or hear hum from stepper. Option b I used old harness for 52 red 53 yellow. 53 yellow got wired to starter side, 52 red to battery side. All other connections the same. So now no guages/readout. On off I've got hour meter. Key accesory and on i've got hour meter and radio. Key start I've got the same single click from a rear solenoid. All fuses are good visually and electrically. With key off I've got voltage across terminal a and b on relay. With battery disconnected I have no continuity. Should i be seeing voltage on both terminals of relay with key off? What's the something dumb im missing? I'll look at the wiring diagram again in a bit. Appreciate any input
Im having a lot of trouble finding the correct relay for this machine, and actually anything sk160 seems almost non- existent. The first coil I got I was recommended to not use being kobelco's electrical setup I was unaware of because I do not have any type of relay in this machine right now. The second relay, which I was guaranteed to work doesn't seem to be outputting correctly. P/n yn24s00003f1 I can't even seem to find a parts manual, everywhere I looked jumps from 135sr to 170. I haven't had luck at equipment shops and cnh has discontinued their easy to use catalog which is where I got the previous part number. Does anyone by chance have an appropriate part # on hand? In the mean time I'll try to find an appropriately coiled relay. Any help is appreciated.
The model of your machine is a sk170-6e or - 6es. Not sure if it's the incorrect decals on it or what, sk160 was only produced as far as the mark 4 models. Post the serial number for it and I will get you the correct part number for the relay.
Hello. This is all I've had to go by. Nothing really seems to match up unfortunately So you can see my confusion. I've noticed new era has a pdf chart of their circuits/ combos. So new era br 632 or br 633 will work I believe. But I'd still like to see about an original part. Edit: assuming my machine uses the same part as 160-6e
Second post for pictures that I found from New era for circuit diagrams in case someone else needs. Unfortunately 632 and 633 aren't common so ordering is a pain.
If you look in between the bottom of the two main lifting rams on the chassis the serial number will be stamped there its probably just covered with dirt. But from your pictures it's definitely a - 6 model machine
I scraped more after the pic was taken. I looked between base boom cylinder pins. Between cylinders. Under cylinders. On swivel. Under car body. So it's definitely -6? Can't be a 6e? Even if I can get the proper coil circuit I don't need the harnesses.
It's either - 6e or-6es. It's on forward faces floor structure under the little hole
Kobelco part number for battery relay is YN24S00003F1. battery relay is the same in - 6, - 6e,and-6es. Also all - 6 model kobelco from 7 ton to 48 ton have the same relay
Thanks for the response. Ym0586 So it's a 170. Does that make it a 6e or 6es? I have a YN24S00003F1. I dont get voltage for starter or 53y from b terminal. Hmm. I opened up the YN24S00003F1 and it isn't dioded or circuited the same as the schematic. I ordered a new era br632 which is is the same circuit as kobelco's set up.
these two wires should not be on same terminal.
where is this wire going to I don't think it should be there at all
hard to see but one wire goes to each, not two wires to one. Red wire on harness to right terminal, yellow wire on harness to left terminal
Yes I have red and yellow seperated how you've said. As far as the other wires they're fuses for 51 2w for controller. I added diodes to relay and tested and didn't get anywhere. Opening up relay there's 1 coil and no diode. I think motrol screwed me. But I do have a br632 coming, which is a dual coil dioded new era relay like kobelco uses. But I have a feeling I have a bigger problem electrically wise
As far as the relay goes I've had no luck. Until I can trace where the b2/Ls ground connection terminates I'll be stuck for a bit while I wait for a more correct part. So I'm going to stay bypassed so I can troubleshoot in the meantime. I got a book for the 170 yesterday and it has all the information for the 160 and then some. The detail difference is really amazing, with very small differences overall. I haven't found any ohm testing data like lachau and I've posted for engine rev sensor but they do provide an output voltage and installation steps which I guess is common sense, but almost opposite of what the 160 recommends. I appreciate helping out with the model number, it helped confirm things I already knew and let's me push on a little more certain. Ps. The 170 and 160 use the same arm cylinder it seems. The 170 book recommends a 95mm wrench. The 160 book I haven't noticed it specified in text and I'll double check, but in the 160 book diagrams it looks like the nut is the piston and require a heavier duty automotive fan clutch type spanner. Basically a Y tool with a bolt on each arm of the Y that inserts into 2 holes in the piston. I've seen komatsu use the prong spanner but I haven't done an arm cylinder yet. Does anyone know if it's a regular nut or a special recessed type deal? As always appreciate the help
Im getting situated to start the a and b adjustments for tomorrow and noticed my fuel pump lever doesn't come close to the stop bolt. I bottom out a quarter inchish away from the bolt when lever is free handed. Should I adjust the stop in towards the lever? I haven't found anything in book yet. Both books included since they are pretty much the same but offer different details. Edit : I can pull it in close to the 1mm spec. When let go it springs away to rest at 1/4"ish. Im assuming that is okay? It's a bit different from what I'm used to on other pumps
It should spring away that 1/4 inch. When you push against the spring tension towards stop bolt(ie. Push lever as far towards stop bolt as you can by hand including against the spring tension ) them adjust stop bolt to meet lever and add a touch. It is important the lever hits the stop bolt just before it would stop if the stop bolt was not there. Then when in step 2 of A adjustment you need to have the lever as close to touching the stop bolt as possible with out it actually touching. In last picture I can see where lever has been hitting max rpm bolt so you might also have to adjust max rpm bolt but see if test will complete as is first
Yeah I realized if Icould read the 170 book said that was ok. I don't care to mess with pump too much but we'll see. Right now im having an error condition after it goes through rpm at end of step 5. Im guessing it's the new rpm sensor. Magnet is strong. Ohms is spec. Only getting 2 vac output at low idle. 1.5 at high. Might have to put original sensor in if I can't get it to feedback correctly. Edit. It reads within 50- 100 in the diagnostic panel
The 170 book says to turn it out 1.5 turns from dead end and gives voltage readings The 160 book is just saying 4 vac or more. My computer wasn't happy until I got it annoy a 1/4 turn away from flywheel, roughly 7.4vac at idle. Anything higher and im losing sensor. So going by what the 170 book says "9 to 40vac or less". Being the give a range andthen says or less confuses me, and I want to be sure. It'd be great if they s as I'd 4vac to 40vac @1000rpm. Does 7.4vac sound like it'll be fine? Before I broke the sensortrying to tighten the backing nut [honestly it wasn't even tight yet] I did get a reading while pressing the , for lack of the buttons name at the moment 3 error recycle icon AT key turn as long as I press it down. I can't access it after im in machine because of the final error code, i2 battery relay. Which is severely annoying. Also with the new sensor in, but still throwing a code [before I adjusted it correctly],I able to swing and [I didn't get a pressure reading yet] able to move heavier weighted items with swing force. I haven't tried bucket yet. Boom down is still limited at 435. I didn't get too much of a chance to mess around yet. Im still seeing at idle lever neutral 12 to 54 psi constant on pump 2, and then when I activate lever I see that same pressure replicate onto arm out read out. Arm out being rod going in. Any ideas? Still haven't did the cylinder yet. Thanks for the help.
Okay I've got readings on the speed sensor and was able to do an a adjustment and finished at 2437. The 170 book said 2200, the 160 didn't specify. 2430 within 50 is the highest I was supposed to see according to book so im assuming that's okay. The b adjustment started and I let it go for about 10 minutes even though book said 1 minute. I assumed maybe fluid wasn't hot enough yet at first. pump 2 at bearing and pto was 145 degrees/f under load which was normal from what I remember under heavy load on a 90 degree day. Before I started machine everything was 110 degrees. Pump loaded and droned steady, I could feel machine very gently, and practically noticeably hydraulically "bump" like something was getting pressure occasionally, I'm assuming boom or arm, with controls locked out. Could've been swing for all I know but the boom/arm is what was creaking every few minutes. B adjustment never finished and I had to hard shutdown machine. Im assuming it couldn't load system properly because a valve/ poppet, or something is left open. I know pump 2 has a constant small pressure reading that it shares with the arm out hydraulic path when control lever is activated. Sometimes 12 to 20 psi, sometimes a constant 50ish psi, and sometimes 12 to 50ish psi. after I killed b adjustment I started machine again, couldn't bring up diagnosis because low battery cycled computer, and tested arm/ swing, tram, and boom force. Arm was more precise than usual but still traveled a little after pilot lever was let go, and floated to a stop and go at 90 degrees [it didn't travel on it's own at first]. Ever since a previous fix that I can't recall arm has had full power and has full speed. Swing is strong and is quick, without timing it im going you say it's full speed. Tram was pretty close to if not full speed, and didn't struggle under its own weight for the 8 seconds I moved, which was a new event. Boom up was slow, and then i boomed down to lift machine and armed some and I had no power, or very little flow to lift. Which I then tried tram again and didn't have power there either now. Arm was starting to do its own thing. Im going to look at the hydraulic schematics and valve body pathways and see if I can get a better image In my head as at this point i think im looking at a parasitic leak/ loss. Can the faulty arm cylinder do this? Im wondering if my new arm spring isn't seating well enough, the big one is original, I replaced the inside one. I know there are poppets and an arm holding valve, I'm just worried about losing small parts but I'll have to look at disassembly section to get an idea. Looks like this next week or so I can probably start worrying about the arm cylinder and possibly the fine details of the little sub systems and bypass paths. Thanks for any input
I don't know what I screwed up yet but I was getting some readings with machine running , decided to press 3 of the function buttons on the left armrest by ac control. One was a picture of the carbody/ tracks, the other was heavy lift I'm assuming, and third was just two arrows pointing up. After I switched them I heard a quick load, or maybe a servo actuate and at that point I knew i screwed something up. It was faint sounding, non aggressive. I have very weak boom and bucket. Sometimes they'll work, other times not. I can piggyback off of arms flow though. Sometime after that I noticed I had fluid coming from piping to arm. Im assuming I blew, or ate another o ring somewhere closer to cylinder as has happened when machine first went down. Anyways, activating those functions, what could I have broken on pump 1? I still see pressure. Before that I couldn't tram. I saw on diagnostics pump 1 and 2 throwing out higher pressures, 3 to 6 each, and the pump labored at higher end obviously. I wasn't seeing those pressures before. Arm recirculation propo is seeing 705mA and 400 psi at neutral. P1 and p2 propos were seeing 430mA and 160 psi at neutral. Pump c-1 is at 43psi at neutral Pump c-2 is at 87psi at neutral Everything else was spec. I tested all functions. Boom up could lift. Diagnostics says 435psi for boom down while lifting machine successfully, c-1 was around 3ksi. Free swing was 350psi [but I had power to move objects] Arm out was somewhere around 2.5ksi initially then after testing everything arm was reading 435psi but I had definitely had power. Arm also was completely controllable but jumpy at times and had a falling feel for arm in, which isn't new. Track pressures were 335psi, couldn't move machine, c-1 was 6ksi, c-2 was 3-4ksi. Bucket was 435psi. I dont recall pump pressure, but I think it was 435. At one point in the middle I lifted front of tracks roughly 8 inches off ground with boom down. I armed out, tapped boom down, and machine fell abruptly. More writing that out so I can remember. So I feel like I should attack the arm recirculation circuit in some way. But now I have to figure out why pump 1 won't pressurize. I don't have any metal in filters. At this point wondering if my Mrv isn't screwed in combination with something else
Just updating. I've got my current "normal" operation of pump 1 attachments back. Stuck solenoid or something of the sort. I'll double check strainer later for shear remnants. Arm bore side between hose and metal tubing is the problem o ring. After machine went down all of them were gone from boom section up. 6 o rings total? That's probably normal with what I'm assuming is happening with air/ compression creating vacuum. So read out always says 435psi for boom and bucket. So just guestimating that's roughly 10 to 16ksi each boom and bucket cylinder without leverage direct pin. And being the bucket can pick the machine up, as well as the arm cylinder sometimes defaults to a reading of 435 psi [I've seen twice now] I'm going to assume, until I get gauges on, that 435 psi is false and it's more like 2500psi with reduced flow because of the recirculation circuit and whatever else. So before I pull too much hair out I'm going to do this arm cylinder next few days hoping that ride the system of any internal leakage and then I can do a b adjustment and start worrying about fine adjustments of reliefs. Thanks.
I was going to wait to post but it'll be a few days for parts and wanted some opinions. I tell myself I'll keep this short but there's a lot. I made new battery cables and cleaned up contacts/grounds. I took that as a chance to make room for batteries i prefer. spliced a bunch more wiring. Replaced the various electrical parts that ohmed bad. All of my diagnostics/feedback are responding correctly. I did notice as i cleaned up grounds, etc there's a molex ground block {in pics}. So when i was trying to get the battery relay to work I know i had a good ground, but sometime later i didn't have a good ground. I'm thinking that's why the previous company bypasses the battery relay cause they couldn't get it to work consistently. probably ground corrosion and they couldn't find the ground like i couldn't because of excessive mud/dirt filling the battery box. So I'm guessing it arced from corrosion sometime in the middle of trying to test the relay with right part # but wrong circuit, so i spliced in diodes to imitate relay being inline to trick computer. That's a guess anyways. even though nothing else is corroded. After replacing the speed sensor and adjusting correctly I did an a adjustment which finished, and then proceeded with the b adjustment, which never was able to finish, i'm assuming because of prblems below {pilot att} With everything jiving from what I can tell correctly, I put a new arm cylinder on, replaced tubing seals/threads that got stretched from when the boom had cracked and don't have air on the rod side of cylinder anymore. I didn't choose to rebuild the cylinder as the barrel was slightly ballooned, and I couldn't get the nut off {had it up to roughly 6000 pounds of torque}. With new piping/seals/cylinder machine seemed to be somewhat happier/smoother but I still couldn't tram {which i figured} and arm cylinder still did what it wanted to. I realized the diagnostics/pressure sensors for the attachments were secondary pressure, and reporting 435psi, 330, etc was correct. Duh. What threw me off was I still swear I saw arm pressure, and i think boom pressure on low pressure sensors. that were supposed to be secondary pressures. But I can't find the pictures I've taken. So I'm getting pump pressure on the arm outs low pressure sensor. I've had the joystick apart a year ago when I first started fumbling around but I've had kobelco techs swear up and down it's the arm cylinder and can't be anything else. I didn't find anything crazy in the joystick. There's so much that is ill-maintained/failed, i saved the cylinder for last, before i started looking at stuff that wasn't obviously a problem. anyways I can probably rebuild the joystick but I ordered a new one thinking that will get the arm under control and get rid of the 90 degree pause. Also i noticed yet another leak. I think the solenoid block may be cracked, but I can't tell where it's coming from. I realize this could also cause some problems with secondary pressure, etc. So now my tram problem. I didn't pay much attention to tram pressures recorded on diagnostics until past few times glancing at machine. one time max pressure on diagnostics was 4600, then 5xxx, yesterday it was 63xx. Being machine won't move and everything's kind of crippled {function speeds of machine have gone from no power, 20% speed to full power and 85% full speed} my next step is to check pressure reliefs and get tram motors down to spec. I'm just waiting on my higher pressure hoses to come in so I can put gauges on. When i go to test the overload relief valves, the manuals i have are telling me overloads can't be fine-adjusted on machine, but they are adjustable. provided the overloads are still good, I should at least be able to adjust everything close to spec and be pretty good right? The one tram motor has always leaked when machine was bought. It was a brand new rebuild. {picture/diagram attached} No one ever looked into it as it wasn't much fluid, and now that I'm getting pretty close into sealing everything up so I glanced. fluid leakage seems higher than before machine went down is coming from around what I'm guessing are the parallel pins, but the diagram is kinda unclear and I won't know for sure until I'm inside the unit. So theres a rough indent on top and bottom of motor that leaks. So I'm going to try to re-torque the cap screws that attach the motor to the flange and get tram pressure into spec. If that doesn't take care of the leak, I'm thinking I can lay the motor down, pop the motor off, make O rings that fit and reseal without any major problems. Of course everyone's worried about opening hydraulics in dirty environments so I'll be sure to vacuum the earth ground really good. I'm not seeing anything in the manual that makes that sound like a bad idea. Am I missing anything? And this is a long shot but does anyone know O-ring thicknesses for the seal between flange and motor? Am i missing anything? does my tram "fix" sound reasonable? Thanks for any input.
So I took apart the main relief. I had the cup apart from the plug maybe 2 months ago just to see if anything crazy happened on outside. And plunger was stuck so I punched it out and got moving freely [I think]. Today I had to punch it out again. I polished it up a bit but it didn't didn't really look an hour under 20,000 hours. But really, it looked fine. So I disassembled everything and didn't find anything weird, aside for plunger sticking. Looking at the poppet you can tell where it seats but it isn't depressed. So I put it all together with a cleaning and new o rings. I was looking at new main reliefs. They're categorized by pressure and flow rate. [Attached screenshot]. I was hoping manual spelled it out like it does for dozer relief. So each pump is capable of 140 liter. So 280 liter. But looking at the spec sheet 29.4mpa didn't seem correct. Do I need a 300 liter 29.4 pmpa relief f7, or will 160l 37.7mpa f5 relief do if I needed one? Appreciate input any input.
I installed the new joystick and relief, big developments. Got the new main relief on, ran system a little at about 2500 pounds. Came back next day and had a chunk of metal in the relief's plunger, which is semi expected considering machines history. So I couldn't get power boost to activate, it automatically shuts off. I didn't worry about it too long, I adjusted the relief close to what the previous one was then got the main adjustment set. Guages were reading 4980 to 5051psi which seems to be dead on. -Arm is spec. full pressure on both pumps and full speed. Swing is spec. -Boom up/down seems to slightly reduced power and half speed. I have p1 pressure, p2 on boom up will climb to 1000psi ish then at boom stall p2 drops to 250psi ish, p1 is spec. I can lift machine though. Bucket mimics boom. I have right track movement now, seems to be full speed but I haven't tried timing. It's pretty quick though. I dont remember output but I know computer put out 4xxxpsi. [Pre relief is was 6300 or so] Left track [assuming pump 1] is, well, not good. When I activate lever I see a pressure of 6000 to 6300 psi on computer, which is what I got from the right track before the main relief valve swap. The motor doesn't sound healthy and i could see it was visually hitting the cover when I activated lever. Here's a video of what's happening. Note, I'm switching lever forward and reverse. To me it sounds like something's sheared OR what I hope, the brake just isn't disengaging due to pressure. After thinking about it though I think brake just isn't disengaged due to pressure. These motors were rebuilt maybe 7 some years ago and have maybe moved machine weight a total of 10 miles a year. Granted im sure they could use a fluid drain. So there's a lot of good stuff going on. I've checked the travel straight, travel left, and travel right spools again, they're clean and smooth. I haven't checked boom conflux spool again yet. I need to look into the travel/boom/ bucket schematics some more but I know p1 travels through the right travel spool and p2 the left. Other than that i am not seeing anything that jumps out at me that could be wrong. What silly thing am I missing? What's causing the motors pressure to raise? Should I disassemble the motors relief? Any help appreciated.
The circus is back in town. So I dont know for sure what's going to be my solve all, but I can tell you im not running out of problems. So I ordered 2 pump solenoids pn YB35V00003F1 Mine ohmed good but I recorded a p1 propo bypass code when machine first went down. So I had my dudes swap them, nothing changed, still p1 bypass. [I never looked at them, never could've imagined]. So we went through wiring, still threw code. Eventually code stopped displaying. I forgot about it. So today I took them out in hopes of swapping them quick. When I pulled one out I thought I ordered the wrong part. This solenoid has no spool or chamber. What? Nope they're inside the regulator. The one spool snapped. With how everything seperated my guys wouldn't know better, I barely did. So im going to try to tap the center hole for a bolt and try to press them both out. I don't love the idea but I'm not sure what else I can do, and the fact it happened to both of them I think is hilarious. Pics included. Let me know if anyone has a better idea. I've since did a big wiring job on machine that would have remedied almost everything if not everything yet, aside for the coolant temp sensor. But didn't find anything wiring wise that would've been the past p1 bypass. So im assuming it's just might be more mechanical. Or magical. Taking my fine bristle tooth brush as I scrub this machine top to bottom, to top again, I found a bucket overload relief had what im assuming is a pen spring for the plunger. I think this is "part improvement" came from one of my guys trying to go above and beyond, so this is something that happened AFTER machine went down. Seems to be working okay, but i know it isn't rigid enough to do its job 100$. So im finding some stickiness in these reliefs, and aside for the spring, I'm not finding my purple unicorn of a fix. I haven't messed with the shockless on the swing motor, reliefs at bottom of valve body because I hate the top bottom design, and tram motor reliefs. I'll get there eventually.