Just got delivered on Monday, a Komat'su PC60-7 excavator with 6100 hours on the clock. Works well overall, engine sounds very nice, hydraulics seem to be quick and responsive. Couple of issues: Only have one key. Not comfortable not having a backup key. And this key is worn. Hard to turn the key in the ignition. Can't get it into the preheat mode at all. Went to a bunch of places that duplicate keys and they all said this key is not in machine's program database. Where do you get additional keys made? I noticed that Amazon sells keys, but then that raises the question of how to get the key that matches your machine's ignition tumblers? Second issue: Machine works okay for the most part, but it seems like the left track has less power than the right track. If I need to turn the machine in a tight space where there's little room to do a jump turn, I need to turn the tracks in opposite directions. The right track runs, but the left doesn't unless I push the right track lever a bit in the same direction as the left. Going in straight lines is no problem. Third issue noticed today: Oil leaking from left side of engine compartment. Oil pooled on floor of engine compartment near the PPC Shuttle Valve. Didn't see any obvious leaks there. But oil dripped onto my left track and there's a trail of oil on the driveway. This after using the excavator to push over a small young tree (about 3-4" trunk dia) with the boom extended and the bucket and arm extended and just driving the tracks forward a little at a time. I'd estimate the contact point was about 10' up the tree trunk. I was not aware of any oil leak prior to that. Inspecting the engine compartment, I see no visible leaks. I even tried starting the engine and operating one function at a time and then looking to see if any fresh fluids had sprayed out. Nothing found. Wondering if there's some relief valve that momentarily opened due to an overload and dumped about a quart of fluid?
When my auction Komatsu D39 dozer was delivered the driver said he didn't have the key but one that would probably work. And it did - mostly. I got the real key from a Komatsu dealer.
Thanks for the info about that key. It seems there is like a "master" key that works across multiple machines. Scary. I think I have isolated my hydraulic leak at least by function. When I push the right travel stick forward, there's an audible hissing noise. There's a lot of oil leaking after forward travel. Pretty much stops if the machine is stationary. Now I need to isolate which line is failing. Likely it's a split in the hose somewhere. Time to hit the service manual and do some reading.
The master key is usually a 787 key if I recall right. There are pilot lines under the travel pedals that go back to a manifold block with a bunch of shuttle valves and pressure switches. I would guess the leak is somewhere between the pedals and the manifold block. You can pull off the plates that are mounted to the bottom of the house in those areas to inspect those hoses. Travel power has a few different causes but get the leak taken care of first before we give you more things to worry over.
Thank you for the key info. I'll research it some more and see if I can find it. Would that manifold block be the PPC Shuttle Valve, as indicated in the manual's diagram? It's possible the leak is further forward and spraying back toward the PPC, making it look like it's coming from there. Are the pilot lines steel or rubber hoses? Maybe if steel, they are rusting out. The location and access look like they will be a problem (I have a bad back). Any suggestions to make gaining access easier? I was thinking of parking it on solid fill and digging out a 2' trench then parking the machine over it like a service pit. Not too deep so the walls have a collapse hazard, but enough to give me room to work under there. I'm going to go buy a few gallons of Tractor Fluid today so that I can replace the lost fluid. I use that stuff on my snow plow with good results and it's cheap compared to the stuff the manufacturers sell.
So there are a couple of small plates underneath the house, but they don't look large enough to provide adequate access to reach all the ends of the lines. The plate shown in the first photo is about 11" square. The second photo shows the area where the oil runs out through the weep holes. The third is near the front of the house. Am not sure how one would access these pilot lines.
$25.99 for the switch and 2 keys. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&_odkw=komatsu++PC60-7+igbNITI+keys&_osacat=0
Any AW hydraulic hydraulic fluid will work. Tractor hydraulic fluid might be a lot more expensive than AW46 from a local distributor. The plates are what you have to work with. The manifold would be where the PPC shuttles are located.
I picked up a 5 gal bucket of AW64 for $47.99 at AutoZone. Added it to the main hydraulic tank. Are there less expensive sources for this fluid? I also put another 10 gallons of diesel in the fuel tank. It seems like a bottomless pit, because 2 days ago I put in 10 gallons and it barely raised the level in the tank. Looks to be 20" below the surface, but fuel gauge says about 90% full. After adding 10 gals, gauge shows full, but there's lots of room in the tank. My arm can't reach in there. Unless the 11" plate is right next to the pilot lines. Do they go into the manifold at that location? I figure the access panel must make it possible to change out lines. Do I need any special wrenches to replace the lines? Are these lines flexible or rigid steel lines? I may try to remove that plate and have a look in there. Probably best to turn the house 90° as it's over the tracks right now. I presume the large metal plate under the front of the house where the travel pedals are also has to come off? It's hard to tell from the drawings in the manual, unless I'm looking at the wrong drawings.
Good day If you need help trouble shooting crawler issues we have complete information a little heavy to post here but you can view or download from the following go excatech.org > Library > common defects > weak crawlers. Finding leaks is often easier with a helper operator and using a piece of cardboard in those awkward to see place's. Kind regards Uffex
Dont get anything cheaper. Its crap oil. Your fuel sender is probably off, Its a common problem. Welcome to the world of mini's! They pack 8lbs. of crap in a 5lb. box. The access plates are there for "access" to some things, but in most cases.......your arm, wrist, and fingers will need to bend and twist in un-natural directions while your back and hips twist the opposite direction. Its fun as Hell! In some cases yes. The access to each hose may be different, and you may very well need to remove multiple lines to actually get at the one you really want. Could be either or depending on the manufacturer, model, location of components,..a multitude of variations. Correct! Unless your a skinny elf you wont reach anything. Only if you are replacing/repairing something that runs under it. You will need to do some stretches before you start. Here is what may work to help you prepare for this challenge. Lay in the floor of your living room. Have your wife/gf attempt to bend every joint in your body the opposite direction until it hurts like a mofo. While this is being done on your arms, have her take a wire brush and scrape the **** out of your forearms while also poking your fingers with a few needles. After that have her pin your upper body above your waist to the floor where your shoulders are flat, then have her twist you at the waist until your kneecaps are touching the floor also. Make sure she does this in both directions while pushing on your lungs to restrict your breathing. Once this is all done......your ready to tackle this!
OMGosh !! Awesome !!
Thanks for the tip Uffex. Vetech63, with my back injury, simply crawling under the wife's SUV to do a brake job left me in bad condition for almost 2 weeks. This sounds like a job best left to a young and healthy person. It's raining hard today, but if it lets up later and the mud isn't too deep, I may try to take the plate at the middle of the house off and have a look in there. I prepped the bolts with WD-40 last night, so hopefully they are not going to be too difficult to remove. If the lines go up to the track pedals, it is likely the larger panel underneath that area will need to come off to access connections. This is my first excavator. I'm retired. What a first problem to deal with and only a few days after I bought it.
I noticed that on Bobcat excavators, the floor panels can be removed, giving access to hydraulic lines under the floor. Am I correct to assume there is no such access on the Komatsu PC60? I've just been studying this diagram and it looks like many of those lines run continuously to the control valve. It's not a short run to a manifold block like I first thought.
Can anyone advise as to how delicate the travel mechanism is? The seller is telling me that I may have burst the lines by trying to push dirt that was not broken up first. The blade looks like it's meant to cut through tough ground, though I've always been gentle and cautious with the machine.
I'm not sure what your asking here. Your not going to bust pilot lines like that. The blade on a excavator really isn't to be used like a dozer. It more for backfilling ditch lines than anything else.
More specifically, if you're pushing against something that causes the tracks to slip on loose dirt, is that putting too much strain on the travel motors and associated lines? Was it a mistake to use the travel motors with the boom extended to push over a small 4" dia maple tree? What would cause a pilot line to burst other than age?
No. The system is designed with a high pressure relief that is set to a factory spec. If you were to overload the track drive, they would basically run over relief pressure and stall. In my opinion, not really. Its unlikely you would damage the system with all the hydraulic safeties it has (circuit reliefs, load checks, main reliefs.....etc.) You CAN damage something the system if someone has gone and screwed with the relief settings and have then too high. Age and abrasions is the most common. The pilot system has a pressure reducing valve I believe that regulates the pilot system pressure to a set value. Using the wrong hose rating on the system can cause a hose failure also.
That makes sense. I would think these safeties are built in otherwise service mechanics would be overloaded with repairs and unhappy customers. I removed the 11" square plate that is about even with the operator's seat under the house. Didn't see any evidence of hydraulic fluid at that spot. I did find a lot of muck in the form of earth or possibly decayed leaves, acorns and pine needles in that space. There's a manifold (maybe the blade control valve) there with somewhat rusty connections but nothing wet from leaks. I put WD-40 on all the metal parts to retard the rust. I suspect the leak is further back, somewhere between this inspection port and the PPC shuttle valve. Will have to get someone to gently operate the right travel stick while I look in the engine compartment. I have no clue how they installed those lines in there. No human arm can reach that shuttle valve!
Welcome to our world. You are on the right track thinking about getting someone to operate things while you look. Make sure to wear eye protection and don't stick your fingers down in that rat's nest while a function is pressurized.
It will likely be later today, if I can get my wife to help me. Getting her up into the operator's seat will be a challenge. My arm is about 20" to short to reach that area, so I won't be able to get close enough to risk injury. Safety glasses for sure! My overall impression is that I'm going to have to leave this repair to someone with the special tools and skills to do it. Some of these guys charge north of $100/hr, but if I can get the whole thing fixed, and maybe all of the lines under the floor pan replaced with above spec lines, maybe it'd be worth a grand to have it all fixed properly. Any leads to service folks in western CT?
I think it's a slower leak than first thought. It's streaming out, but not gushing. It's either this bright silver cluster of couplings or it might be the black hose behind it. I put a GoPro camera on a stick and aimed a flashlight down there to get this footage. My arm cannot reach this area! https://www.dropbox.com/s/q5xair1uifjkuc7/Hydr.mp4?dl=0
I think I isolated the leak (or thought I did) to the coupling at the right arrow. When the right travel stick was pushed forward and I use an aluminum rod to push on this coupling, fluid shot out from various directions from this coupling. I tightened it by removing the air intake, battery terminal, etc and moving that stuff out of the way. I was able to get two adjustables in there. But when I started up the machine and pushed down on the red safety interlock handle, the joint pointed to by the left arrow started to gush fluid. None of the functions work at all now. The outer rubber on that hose crumbled. Obviously the bend is too tight and probably why it failed. I don't know where this hose goes. It's not shown in the diagram. Which brings me to the second photo below this one... While cleaning in the area, I noticed this connector has nothing plugged into it. There is a cable laying about this space, but I don't think the connector on that cable fits this receptacle. It may have been disconnected for a long time, or it may have come loose and could be the reason none of the machines functions work at all now. The dangling cable is for the automatic greasing system, and the former owner disconnected it. Regardless, I've got a serious problem now, as the machine is totally dead. The engine runs and nothing more.
Don't run it out of hydraulic oil!
Probably lost about 2 gallons just testing the machine after tightening the coupling in the photo I posted earlier. I put 5 gallons of AW64 in 2 days ago. I'm curious about that electrical connector on the side of the PPC shuttle valve. There are two connectors that I can see. Upper one is connected to a cable. Lower one has nothing. Not sure if it was always like that. Anyway, I'm stuck now. All of those lines look like they need to be replaced. That one with the coupling crumbled when I picked it up. I wonder how many other lines are about to fail? At this point, I really need someone with the tools and expertise to do this repair. Although the former owner put "as is" on the bill of sale, I am going to ask him to share some of the cost, as I got maybe 3-4 hours use out of this machine before it became like this. I spent my life savings to buy this machine, hoping it would be an investment that I could turn around and sell in a few years after I finished my projects. Seems like I made a big mistake!
A new hose like in that 2nd last picture is likely to also leak in short order. That is too sharp an angle for the hose to bend 90*. It looks like that has been replaced before. The fitting looks extra long, not sure why? A 45* fitting may work if a shorter straight fitting isn't possible. There may be an extra long 90* fitting available too. Not sure if it would be long enough though.
Might want to use a lower number hydraulic fluid like AW46 (15wt) or AW32(10wt) in the future. AW68 is close to 20wt so AW 64 would be slightly thinner. Your manual should have a spec. and maybe a temperature range for different oils.
That oil may be a bit off.. I'd use a AW 32 or a AW46. Also, that oil shouldn't look that color at all, it has a lot of water in it. You really should drain the tank and plan on servicing the hydraulic system as best you can I cant see enough in the pic to even place an educated guess. It kinda looks like a temp sender in my opinion. They look like the cotton braided hoses. They are low pressure and perfect for bending around corners, but they really don't last as long as they should. I'd bet more than half are going to need replaced. Definitely! It would have to be out of the kindness in his heart. "AS IS" on a invoice is legally solid. Believe it or not, it could be ALOT worse! LOL Just read through some past threads on this site...........some were total fiascos.
My gut feeling is that with new hydraulic lines, a flush and replacement of fluid, filters, etc., the machine will probably be fine. My hunch is the former owner or someone before him didn't bother to change the entire line and just put in a shorter line and spliced them together. Just my guess. But now the problem is who services these things in Western Connecticut? I found a drawing of the PPC shuttle valve and it appears there should be an electrical connection going to the front of the house as shown below: I see no such cable on my machine. What cable is lying there is labeled P54 and it turns out that connects to the automatic grease system. The five or six hoses that come out of this area and go to the front probably all need to be replaced. If I can get that done for a grand or less, I can keep going. The question is finding a mechanic who can do the work in my area.
That silver colored coupler on the end of that hose is a Aeroquip reusable fitting that someone put in there. I can't tell in the photo where that hose goes to but you might be able to find the other end and let us know. I suspect it is the supply to the pilot block under the cab. The may be why you have nothing working. The electrical connector should have a number tag just behind the connector. being below the shuttle block might mean it is hooked to a pressure switch that tells the computer something is being used. Generally, a pressure switch would be used to tell the computer to throttle up the engine when a function is used. You will have to take care of the hose before you do anything else.
Well Mark, I hate to say it, but welcome to the joys of owning equipment… Especially equipment that someone else had and tryed to fix things on the cheap. It really doesn't seem like you got too bad of a deal if you can get the hoses replaced, the hydraulic oil AND filters changed and that puts you back in business. Everything is expensive when it comes to machine upkeep and repair. I'm going to send you a private message with some information… Where are you located In CT?
The plugs have a P number tag on them, but I can find no plug / wire that fits this connector. The one laying there turned out to be for the automatic greasing system. The service manual clearly shows a cable that comes from the front of the machine, but that seems to be missing on my machine.
I'm in southern New Milford, bordering Brookfield, actually. The rest of the machine seems fine. Engine runs strong and sounds great. The rest of the hydraulics ran well when they worked. I just need to replace a line or two that have failed. There's a lot of rotting muck in that space between the floor pan and the bottom of the house. I pulled one 11" square plate off today and found it loaded with wet muck in there, too, just like the engine compartment by the PPC Shuttle. Couple of challenges are freeing up the bad hose, identifying where it goes at both ends and getting it out of there. Since the house won't swing now, I can't get to all the bolts under the front of the house bottom plate. Need to swing it 90° over the side of the tracks to reach those back bolts near the center circle. I'm a bit baffled as to how they ran those lines in the first place! Maybe they built it and installed the lines before they put the floor pan in. I can't imagine any other way. Is it that there's no ability to build pressure in this one line that the entire set of hydraulic controls are disabled? I checked and only the blade seemed to move up/down, but all other functions act like the safety is engaged.
The blade function runs off a separate pump and the valve for it I believe is manually operated. I don't recall whether or not those machines were ever sold here. All that I've put my hands on were gray market. Some machines had the grease system but many did not. The wiring was still in the machines for it. Some of the machine would set a fault code for a malfunctioning grease system even though it wasn't currently installed. Could you post a photo of the monitor panel in your machine. It might give us some clues as to why you machine won't move.
I suspect your hydraulics are not working cos the broken pilot line is not allowing any pressure to build in the pilot system. Replace the burst hose first and see what happened
John C, referring to the monitor panel inside the house (the one with fuel gauges, etc) or the monitor panel in the engine bay for the auto greasing system (disconnected by former owner). I don't recall any of the warning lights being lit on the house monitor panel. Is it likely that the pressure in this pilot line increases dramatically with right travel stick forward operation? Before I tried to tighten the Aeroquip fitting, it seemed that it only leaked when someone was pushing forward on the right travel stick. Since the bend in that hose ruptured, I get no response from the sticks at all. And interestingly, it is under pressure when the safety lock lever is in the down position. Before the rupture, this hose didn't leak enough to be detected when the safety lock lever was down. This hose with the splice fitting in it is not on the diagram on page 10-103 of the service manual. This hose doesn't seem to connect to the PPC Shuttle Valve, as with the other hoses. The diagram shows all hoses going to this PPC. I'll need a second person to watch while I tug on this hose to see what moves at the other end.
I'm wondering about the one in the cab. The damaged hose is likely the supply line from the pilot pump to a stop valve and feeds the hand controls. The splice is there because of the hose failure sometime earlier.
I managed to get the bottom plate off (three of the bolts broke off because they are rusted in) and this is what's underneath. The line marked with the red arrow seems to go to that splice. I pulled on it and the splice moved forward. I pulled the splice back from the engine bay and the line pulled taught like you see it here. I have been unable to use the same method to find the other end however because the lines are bound somewhere back there and won't slip. Also many of them are in bad shape and I am reluctant to break another one by tugging on it. I'm heading over to Harbor Freight to get some metric socket and some flare wrenches. Maybe later, if my back isn't hurting too badly, I will try again to identify the line, or get my neighbor, who's father is a diesel mechanic and who works on a lot of cars himself, to come over and help me identify which line if I don't succeed. My neighbor said he got one hose made up in Queens a couple years ago before he moved here and it cost him about $200!
The only metric wrenches you need are a 12, 10, 8 and 7. Anything over a twelve for a Komatsu and US wrenches all fit. Common sizes are 11/16 - 17 MM, 3/4 - 19 and on up.
It sounds like you kind of jumped in head first on this machine and maybe it would have been better to ask about it, or used machines in general. on here first??? Most smaller hoses should be quite a bit less than $200 but if $200 seems expensive you may be in for a some expensive surprises. If you need hoses go to a place that does hydraulics and properly cleans the hoses out after assembly. You don't have to go to a dealer but going to a place that sells car parts, etc. will often be a higher price because it's not their main source of revenue. It's more like you pay more for the convenience.
I bought $311 worth of new tools, including a 25" breaker bar. The seller recommended this company for hoses: https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/hydraulic-hoses.html Most of the bolts seem to be 17mm. I got 6 point sockets and that was a wise choice because many were rusted in and even 50lbs of force on a 25" bar it took to break free most. I'd been looking at excavators for a year, but most asking prices were in the 40s to 60s. This guy was asking under 30 and I negotiated down to 27 5. I did ask if there were any known problems. The machine operated and sounded great, so that gave me a sense that the guy had taken good care. All the joints had fresh grease on them and everything looked lubed. I was unaware of this forum prior to this week. Mainly bought as an investment that would be safer than keeping my cash in a safe for the past 60 years, seeing as the value was dropping rapidly this year. After 9 hours of struggle, I managed to get the spliced line out of there and pull ropes in place for the new line. The two pull ropes, one to the pump, the other to the front. The pull rope out the front, ready to pull in the new line. The other end of the line at the pump. All openings sealed with plastic and a twist tie. So now I need to find an 11' hose of the correct spec with connectors. I'm tired, my back hurts and my arms are all scraped up.
These all run in the 300 to 500 PSI range on the pilot system. Single wire hoses are fine. Some other brands of excavators use plastic tubing. You are probably looking at around $40 per hose replacement. The labor to change them will be far more than the cost of the hose.
I've used about $700 of my own time (normally I'd be fixing amplifiers at $80 /hr) today just getting the old line out and snaking the pull ropes for the new line. Yes, these appear to be low pressure lines. The last section that goes under the operator seat to the front controls was a challenge to remove. Something was preventing the connector from getting past something under the floor in an area I cannot see. Ended up cutting the other end off and attaching rope to that and trying to pull that through in opposite direction, but the lump got stuck under the floor again. So I fished a 10 awg wire from the front and hooked the rope to bring it the last couple of feet, cut the other end off the bad hose and just pulled it through with a great deal of friction. Hopefully I did not damage any other lines with all the tugging I did to remove this one. Now to find a place that can make me up a line to match this one, including the same connectors. Hope I can find a place that will make it while i wait or has an off the shelf exact replacement. I'm hurtin' pretty bad right now. Right heel in pain, back hurts, bruises and scrapes on both arms. Tomorrow's another day!
Sorry to hear of your pain. Many here have been doing it for more than thirty years. I can't figure out how it gets in the blood so hard. We are wired for it in the head I guess.
Having an existing back injury from a rear end collision 14 years ago limits my ability to get into positions that some of these jobs require. I've been in the electronics field for about fifty years, so working on machinery is a whole new world for me. I'm shopping for the replacement line, but am not familiar with the sizes, fittings and terminology. Am I correct to assume these are 1/2" lines with 1/2" NPT male SAE fittings?
Best to take what you have to a hose shop unless the OEM lists all the info. Wouldn't want to guess and get the wrong hose or fittings. Repairs can be a real pain sometimes and hard on the body. Having recently gone through the most severe back pain I can really feel for you. I won't be doing many repairs anymore unless they're fairly easy. Unfortunately my back pain was a result of cancer. I had compression fractures in 10 of my vertebrae. 5 were repaired with a bone cement procedure but I still have 5 others that may or may not need the procedure. Most days I'm OK but sometimes my back aches pretty bad.
They are generally known as Komatsu fittings which are JIS or Japanese Industrial Service. I don’t remember if they are #4 or #6 size. Take the hose with you and check a male fitting in the female hose end to be sure you have the right size before they cut the new hose from the spool.
You could run over to Levine Automotive for that line, they can make them up. You can also just Google “hydraulic repair in Connecticut”, and you will have lots of choices, take the line with you wherever you go so they can match up the fittings and the length. It is next to impossible to go online and try and buy a premade hose. The typical way to do it is to remove the hose and go to a local hydraulic repair shop, mostly all shops will do it while you wait.
Good suggestion about Levine's. I will call them. They have two shops within 20 mins of me. Here are the dimensions I was able to measure. Is it a problem to get JIS fittings locally? Sorry to hear about the severity of your back issues, Welder Dave! Cancer sucks. I have it in my prostate and colon. My days are numbered.
Very sorry to hear that. Take it easy and try to surround yourself with positive people like those on here. It's made a huge difference for me. Cancer does suck!
What's the best way to drill out the bolts that broke off due to being rusted in under the house? I'll need to deal with that very soon. About 60 dollars. I'm at Levines now waiting for the hose to be made. They have hydraulic fluid I 5 gal can for $39. Think I'll grab a can to get me up and running temporarily.
Well I got the new hose about 10' of it and I got it snaked through only took me 2 hours but then I tried to screw the connector on and it's too big.
Are both end fittings the same size.
I'm at Levines again. They don't have nipples to check the old fittings for fit. They look the same though. I'm waiting while they check the warehouse as the don't have the smaller fittings in stock. Super frustrating after I spent 2 hrs fighting obstructionsunder the house the the fittings would not snake through.
Uuuugggggghhhhhh.....so sorry to hear that Mark. Hope you get it squared away. I have had that happen before when I've been in a pinch and had a hose made by a place I don't regularly use, very frustrating. I just mentioned Levine because I figured one was close to you, and actual hydraulic repair place is always a better choice mostly because they are more knowledgeable about fittings and such....sorry again....I hate to say it though, get used to it, it's very hard to find good people in the service industry that care enough to do things right, they are out there, but they are few and far between unfortunately.....
Yeah the young kid that made my host didn't seem like he was all there. Anyway I finally found a place called T and J hydraulic over at 5 star street in Danbury and they can make anything at quarter inch and above. So they made me the right hose I was able to replace that damaged hose the one that had displaced in it. That got the hydraulics working again however the right travel lever still leaks hydraulic fluid and there's another hose directly behind it that I found that has a pinhole leak. So now I gotta replace that 1 too.
The good news is you're finding the source of the leaks. Sometimes it can be quite difficult to find where a leak is actually coming from. If Komatsu uses fittings that aren't standard a non hyd. shop could be clueless and just pick a fitting that looks close. Replacing a couple hoses isn't too bad and hopefully fixes your problem. It's good you found a hyd. shop that can make your hoses. I hope you got a full refund on the hose with the wrong fittings. It would be different if you had ordered it online but you took the fittings in to match up.
On my previous 15 year old Kubota tractor I had a hydraulic hose fail every two or three months for over a year, then I decided to replace all of them, should have done that in the first place. Then one lift cylinder started to leak and I had that rebuilt. Then a few weeks later the other lift cylinder started leaking, had that seal replaced. Recently I noticed my boom lift hoses are looking pretty tired.....
I did get a full refund from Levine, so it was just lost time (about 3 hrs) and a lot of extra bruises. Tomorrow morning, I'm going to ask my wife to wiggle the line while I go climb on top of the control valve and look to see which hose moves. Then under the house to do the same. Then to try to pull that hose and take it to T & J for a replacement build. (BTW, they are excellent.. it was nearly 5pm when I got there and they made me a new hose in about six minutes. Cost was $80 with tax.) Only thing is the new hoses are fatter and won't fit in the plastic looms that are held by those wide clamps under the house. I will have to cut the dividers to allow the bigger hose to set down in there so I can bolt the clamp up. I probably need a bunch made this length, as many seem to go to the same general end points. The new hose is 5800 PSI rated. 10' 6" was just perfect. It's a never-ending thing, just like with maintaining classic cars. I got me a used Silverado last August and put some money into it to get the brake system good and a new radiator. At least now I have a good work truck. This excavator isn't being used for commercial work, just projects around my property, so I expect once these lines are replaced, I should have a respite from such matters. As long as I don't use the forward position on the right travel stick, the leaking stops. So I managed to continue digging my tree stump this evening, traveling backwards and doing jump turns to avoid the forward position. I noticed with the pilot line replaced and 5 gals of AW46 (Levine had it in stock for $39) added, the hydraulics seem stronger. When I pulled on the stump with the bucket just a bit, it will easily lift the back end of the machine now, even with the blade down. I'm digging around and busting up the tap roots all around the stump first. Workarounds. Tomorrow, hopefully I get that other bad line out and replaced. I want to express my sincere gratitude to you fine folks for all the encouragement you've given me. I was "that close" (holds up a .016" feeler gauge) to giving up and looking for a service mechanic. Your step by step recommendations gave me small goal posts to pursue and eventually, I reached the finish line on that first, difficult line replacement. Now I know the drill, so the next one should be more straightforward, though still a &*%$ struggle. One final thing... any advice on a good way to drill out the broken 17mm bolts that are rusted in (they hold the bottom service panels in place) on the underside of the house? I've got a total of four that broke on both panels.
Normally the easiest way to remove broken bolts is to weld a nut or flat bar with a hole in it to the broken bolt and the heat will break it free and it will spin out. Being overhead and having to crawl under the machine might make this difficult. If you can get a center punch centered on the broken bolts maybe a left hand drill bit would work? A normal drill bit and EZ out might work too. If it's just for a cover plate may not be too critical or maybe you could drill a new hole(s) for the cover plate and tap the holes on the machine if the broken bolts are really stuck bad. Kudo's to Levine for giving you a full refund.
Those bolts are a pain no matter how you go at them. I usually center punch them as best as i can and then drill them. I start small and work up. Try an easy out each time you get through with the next bigger drill but don't break the easy out. Many times they have to be drilled till really thin and then removed with a small half round chisel. I think they are 12 mm bolts so aren't too big. Don't try any heat as there are lots of things that can catch fire. Also try to find a young fella that you can watch and school them on how you want it done. Good job and good luck!
Thanks for mentioning the easy out tool. I knew there had to be something to take out stuck bolts but could not remember the name. The heads are 17mm (like most everything else on this machine) and the threaded part looks to be about 1/2" diameter, so it's not a trivial matter to take out. I bought a set of drills at Harbor Freight, but I know those won't last through one bolt. Any recommendations for a ultra hard steel drill bit that can go the distance? I have to drill out four bolts.
They might not be high strength bolts for holding a cover plate on. Probably don't need a cobalt drill but go to an industrial supplier or machine shop supply and buy some name brand drill bits like Cleveland, Chicago Letrobe, Walter or similar. Be careful not break the small ones and some cutting wax or cutting fluid to keep the drill bit cool would help. I mention wax because it may stay on better working overhead. The best ez-outs are the square shaped ones and again a name brand like Proto, etc. are better than HF or the big box store brands.
I consider anything at Harbor Fright (intentional misspelling) that rotates/spins to remove metal or whatever to be a one time use and a throw away. Buy quality bits, my preference is USA as country of origin.
I was thinking back on this a bit and remembered that Komatsu usually just tack welds a nut to the frame and threads a bolt into that instead of threading the frame hole. You might be able to use a die grinder and cut the tacks loose. The bolts are all alloy and very hard.
That would make it easier if you could get in there. Some pics. might help so we can see what you're dealing with.
A bit to the left of center of this photo is the inside nut and the bolt threads protruding.
17mm head bolt...M10x1.5 19mm head bolt...M12x1.75 On your Komatsu.
I got the forward track line installed today. T and G Hydraulics made up the lines with the banjo fittings to match up to the track lever control fittings and I got the line in by running it in a new place (the bundle was too tight and the fitting would get stuck when I tried to pull it through). I filled the line with oil before connected the upper end at the control valve, as I did with the pilot line yesterday and tightened it down. Note that I use an air compressor to blow all the lines out before installation, to avoid any metal filings getting into the system. Unlike yesterday however, when I run the machine, the hydraulics are making a loud whirring noise. When I travel, the movement of the tracks is jerky, sort of a go-stop-go movement. I thought, despite adding ten gallons of fluid in the past week that maybe it's low on fluid, but there is still fluid in the tank when I look in there. No doubt SOME air got in the system, but when this happened after the first line change, it cleared up in 30 seconds and was running smoothly after that. I need to flush the system and change filters real soon, but I've been neglecting my duties at the amp repair shop for the past three days due to dealing with the line replacements and I need to get back to paid work. I'm going to try to get some more hydraulic fluid tomorrow, if Levine is open on Sat. or else will have to pay $11 more at AutoZone. Is it likely air in the system that's making it noisy and jumpy? Recommended method to blead the air?
Usually just extending or retracting cylinders a few times gets rid of air. If you pick up the side you replaced the hoses with the boom and slowly switch between forward a reverse should get rid of air too. The noise isn't good. You don't want guess on fluid level and try to do quick little jobs in the mean time. Pumps and motors run into the several thousand dollars range. Cavatation is not good. Fix all the leaks and fill to the proper level before doing any work. If you have nuts tacked on the inside and can get to them is a good thing. You may be able to cut them off or attack them with a big chisel.
I thought it was necessary to open a valve somewhere to bleed the air. Just running the tracks should do it? Maybe it lost more fluid than I thought. I will purchase 10 gallons tomorrow and try topping off the hydraulic tank. I may be finding myself getting into welding (was pondering buying a welder last year but didn't get around to it) with this project. Though I'd much prefer if I could get those nuts out via drilling and retapping.
Not something to weld on if you have no experience. Many bad things can happen, some of them very serious. Got a better look at the pic. on the computer. If you have access to the top, like it looks you do, could thread a nut on (or use a larger size that slips over) and weld it and pull the broken bolt right through. Would probably have to hire a portable welder to do it but would be an easy fix. In the mean time spray a bunch of penetrating oil on it from the top and let it soak in and repeat a few times. A little concentrated heat could be used if you clean all the crap from there. Maybe, maybe, maybe you could cut a slot in the bolt and use a big screwdriver or something to try and turn it? What ever you do don't cut the extended part off. It gives you something to work with. I think a nut welded on is your best bet. Don't put it all the way down. It would be good to be able to turn the broken bolt back and forth when trying to remove it.
Changing a pilot line will not add air into the hydraulic system and cause issues with the implements. Do you know that you need to extend the stick all the way out, open the bucket all the way and set is all down on the ground when checking hydraulic fluid in the tank? If you do that and the level is in the middle of the sight glass, you machine has enough oil. Here is a video showing the basic maintenance checks that goes for any Komatsu excavator.
Agreed. Bad position to work in and no escape from the sparks. Not sure if the stud stick through on all of them though. Recall that I had to use a 25" breaker bar with the 17mm 6 point socket to loosen these bolts. Impossible for a screwdriver to have that kind of torque. Most likely, I'm going to have to get a bunch of cobalt drills and just work on each one, one a day.
Mine has a rubber hose where the sight glass should be. So I open the tank filler and look down in there. Not sure what that level should be, but I guess it goes down when the boom is extended?
You can tap measure the middle of that hose and then stick the tape into the tank to the bottom. Look for the wet level when you pull the tape back out of the tank. If the level is below the rubber tube, I'd think about getting a new glass and installing it before filling the tank back up. The level in the tank goes up when all the cylinder rods are retracted.
Is there anything special about that glass tube? Or can it be replaced with a plexiglass tube of the correct diameter? What about seals and pressure withstanding? So am I correct to assume that the position of the boom and stick are critical to measuring the fluid level if a sight glass is installed? At any rate, I'll put in ten gallons more fluid tomorrow and hope for the best on that whirring noise. It was pretty nasty in the video my wife made when I first started up the machine this afternoon.
Watch the video link I posted before you do anything else.
Clear vinyl hose is a good replacement for the sight glass. I have one on a hydraulic tank that is pressurized to 15 psi. Another option for the broken bolts.↓ If you have the room, cut that nut off with an angle grinder or, drill a hole next to those broken off bolts and use a new nut and bolt. An angle drill may be a good choice for a drill.
I suggested maybe drilling new holes in an earlier post. Not sure if you have access to the nut with the plate in place. Would have to tack the nuts if you don't. If you have to get a welder in could try to remove the broken bolts.
Any recollection what size hose fits that sight glass fitting? Maybe I can pick some up at Home Depot hardware. My neighbor wants to have a look at the bolts. He thinks he might have a way to get them out. As for the whirring noise, I added 10 gallons of AW46 (all I could get my hands on locally in a hurry) and the noise is reduced but not gone. I compared a GoPro video of me using this excavator last week and there was no such noise audible at all. I added the fluid, which brought the level way up near the filler, and then exercised all of the tools, including the tracks, but the noise does not go away completely. It's even audible when I run the fuel lever at half position while doing nothing. I bought a hand cranked pump that attaches to 55 gal drum and I just need to buy 1" hose to come off the pump and feed to the machine tank, and of course the 55 gal drum of hydraulic oil, and then I can flush the system and change the filter. The whirring sound is concerning though. Never noticed that before last night's change of the forward stick pilot line. In all other respects, the hydraulics work normally. Just noisy now.
There is a strainer in the hydraulic reservoir that when partially plugged can make that whirring noise. It's in the video. Those pumps do make some noise anyway so it may be normal.
I just got done cleaning that strainer and checking the paper filters on both sides of the tank. They're all pretty good as far as I can tell. The O-ring was completely gone on the filler side, so I made a temporary seal with silicon bead around the trench that the O-ring sits in. Started up the machine, but no change in noise. Still whirring. I now need to consider the possibility that the reservoir is over filled, too. Without a sight glass, I can only guestimate that the level may be above the full line.
Mark, please don't take this the wrong way, but you need to start taking the advice people are giving you. John told you EXACTLY how to figure out how much fluid you need without the site glass. Stop just doing things that may not need to be done, it will cost you more in the end. Slow down, and get the right amount of fluid in there BEFORE going any farther. Get the proper filters and o rings, if an o ring is missing don't try to "make a seal with silicone" it won't work and chances are it won't seal well and particles could get past and do some real damage to your hydraulic system. I know having a machine is exciting and can also be very frustrating if things aren't going the way you'd hoped, but take your time and get it squared away correctly and it will last you a long time. The amount of knowledge and free advice given on the site is incredible and is from folks that have been around this type of equipment most of their lives. The advice given here will save you tons of grief in the end, but you need to apply said advice.
That's why I'm here.. where the experts are. That old oil needs to be flushed. It's the color of coffee with milk. I reckon mixing AW68, AW46 and whatever's in there didn't do it any good either. My manual indicates there's a drain plug under the tank. I just need to figure out where I am going to store 25 gals of used hydraulic oil. Oil's much cheaper by the 55 gal drum, so I'm looking for a supplier that can forklift said drum onto my truck. I bought the pump already--just need hose. I want to replace the rubber hose that's currently where the sight glass should be, when I flush the system. Getting the filters is something I don't know where to shop for. Does it go by excavator model, or is there some generic size I need to match? What size clear tubing do I need for replacing sight glass? Who sells AW32 by the drum in the Danbury/Brookfield area? Where do you folks buy your oil in bulk? How do you capture the old oil and what sort of containers are used? I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm convinced there's water and air in the hydraulic fluid and that's causing aeration in the pump. Didn't see any metal particles in the strainer, so that's good news.
I use my oil to fuel brush fires. Fastest way I've found to get rid of it. Filters will be specific to your machine. You can cross reference them if need be as well.
The color of the oil doesn't mean a thing. It's the clarity. Put some in a glass jar and hold it up to a bright light. You should be able to see the light through it pretty easily. You might also consider getting a sample of it tested. You can get test kits from any Cat dealer and there are third party labs, usually affiliated with the oil supplier that can test it for you. If you wish to drain the oil out of the tank, go get a barrel pump and put the suction end in the tank and pump the oil into a barrel. It is nothing but a mess trying to drain the fluid into a drum from the plug underneath.
Most places that do oil changes on vehicles will take your used oil or your municipality may have an Eco station where you can take it. Silicon is no replacement for an O-ring. If even a little bit gets in the system can really screw something up. Take Tags advice above and slow down and fix things properly before you try to do little jobs in between. I don't think mixing different viscosities of oil is going to do much damage especially if you're going to be flushing it out. You're creating extra work and expenses the way you're going. A lot of the stuff you're asking you need to figure out yourself such as the length and size of the vinyl hose for the oil level. It can't be very long so buy a couple sizes if need be and see what fits. Probably cost about $2. Filters you should know are specific to a machine the same way they are on different vehicles. If you can pump most of the oil out is less mess and then just drain the last little bit in a pail. Might want to look for where water could be getting in the hyd. reservoir. That might be why the oil is milky looking. Owning equipment means sometimes you have to figure out how to do a lot of your own repairs and maintainence unless you can afford to call a mechanic out every time something needs fixed. This forum has a lot of experience but can only help you so much without someone being there in person.
The clarity is milky. I don't trust it. The guy who owned it before admitted he'd never changed it. I gather that there must be changing positive and negative pressure on that O-ring, hence the danger of silicon bits getting ingested into the pump? I think I found a suitable O-ring. The diameter of the trench that it sits in is 5-3/8". The ID of the ring I found online is the same, so it probably will fit. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051Y2HE...olid=1SLUN1HP12CCU&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it I'll head to Home Depot and buy a bunch of clear tubing of different sizes. I also need 1" ID hose for the barrel pump I bought yesterday. The filter is expensive. I found an exact visual match on eBay for over $60... oh wait, it's coming from India: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284199714121?hash=item422b9f7d49:g:TgcAAOSwJTNgOfVj This one's much cheaper and is shipped from MN but it looks slightly different than mine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324497630244?epid=1928858524&hash=item4b8d90e424:g:dJYAAOSwgvdgNqq9 Still not sure about the paper pleated filter (blue arrow).. can't find a description in the manual. The one thought that nags me is why did the hydraulics become noisy after I changed that second pilot line?
The blue one is a screen there Ace I bet it's a couple hundred . Most of the time it can be cleaned. Bob
On mine it looks like a paper pleated filter. The red arrowed one has the metal perf outer layer and maybe pleated paper internally, plus a removeable strainer. Today I removed the (fiberglass?) cover that is over the tanks and replaced the sight glass. It was a deformed piece of clear (not so anymore, as the former owner painted over it when he painted the machine). Turns out to be 1/2" tubing, so I got some at Home Depot. The only thing is, the new tubing has a thinner wall, and no matter how much I tighten the compression fitting, it still seeps oil out the bottom. With being able to see the level now, I put back some fluid until I had mid level on the site glass. Apparently, I had about 5 gallons too much in there yesterday. Now with the right amount, the noise quieted down significantly. Machine is working fine today. I noticed that the coupling/joints that attach the bucket have a lot of play in them. Is this wear, or can it be tightened? I moved the machine to the other end of the property to dig up an evergreen and move it. I noticed that the left travel stick is either on or off, there's no gradual ramping up of speed. Is that normal, or in need of an adjustment? It's jerky because I can't ease into it. Still looking for a good supply of fluid and new filters. My neighbor looked at the rusted in bolts and suggested I cut the studs off with an angle grinder, then tap and drill out the remaining stud. I bought a set of reverse spiral bits, some drill bits, etc. and will attempt one next chance I get.
What's with the Ace... it's just more condescending crap nobody needs or cares for. For Mark, you should have never bought the machine if you're going to be on such a shoe string budget. There's a reason heavy equipment is commonly referred to as a money pit. Get the proper filters for your machine. You don't go by what they look like or even the thread size. You go by the proper filter! If you think a filter is too expensive, price out a pump, wheel motor or valve that the filter protects. Little bits of silicon in the system could cause big problems, there doesn't need to be any kind of scientific description why. The blue arrow points to a suction strainer that typically doesn't need to be changed but can be cleaned. I have to change the water pump in my Cat and it will cost about $300 by the time I'm done. I consider that a victory. On equipment I figure if it's under $500 for a repair isn't too bad. I've had some repairs that were several thousand dollars that needed to be done. I wouldn't cut the bolt(s) extending through the nut(s) just yet. You may be able to use that extended part to thread the broken bolt right through. Check the linkage of your travel levers for dirt and and debris. So you went to use your machine again without making sure everything is properly fixed first. I'm sorry, I don't get it. You've got people trying to help you but you're not listening or paying attention. You may need to have new pins and bushings installed on the bucket and possibly other pivots, especially if the previous owner neglected to grease them on a regular basis...like everyday! This could cost a few hundred bucks to repair. You went in pretty blind on this machine and now you're learning all about the costs of ownership. It can be an expensive lesson.
Dave you are truly an equipment repair sexual intellect. Bob
Mark, why don't you give a Komatsu dealer a call and ask for prices before trying will fits and crap sold on the internet. I bet an OEM hydraulic oil filter is less than what you would pay on the internet with shipping and waiting time. The sight glass isn't expensive to get the right one with the right seals and not have oil leaking all over your machine.
The difference is I try to help people out without being a patronizing jerk!
A quick story about why not to use the filter that looks right instead of the one you know is right. So three weeks into the training on my first mechanic job I was asked to service a little lister diesel engine by myself. Off I go into the stores and start picking out filters I matched the numbers for all except the engine oil filter, I did find one that looked the same, same size same thread said lube filter so I thought happy days. I changed oil and filters on the engine and fired it up. While I was giving myself a big pat on my back for a job well done the engine seized. Turned out the oil filter was not the same. It was a costly mistake. So the lesson is always make sure it is correct and not just 'ah sure it looks right'
Did you find out why the wrong filter caused the seize? What was "wrong" about it?
The filter had a rubber flap inside to stop the oil draining out of it. The oil on original flowed through the filter from outside to inside, on the filter i fitted the oil flowed from inside to outside. The rubber flap acted like a one way valve and stopped the oil flowing through the filter
I thought I'd fixed all the original problems by getting the proper fluid levels, and the since the noise abated then, I figured, okay, we're in business again and went back to work. The only issue at the moment, from an operational standpoint, is that left travel stick being on/off instead of variable speed (I don't remember it being like that a few days ago). Is it a valve that opens and closes thereby controlling the flow of hydraulic fluid to the control valve? Where would this linkage be that needs looking at? It seems pretty self-contained in one location with multiple hoses connected to it. I'm also not sure I tightened the fitting at the other end of the line where it goes into the control valve. It seems that it leaks a bit, and I will try to tighten it some more. It's in a spot where I can only access on a steep angle with an open end 19mm wrench so I can't get much rotation nor torque to tighten it really well. I'm thinking maybe that miniscule leaking might be causing issues. As for the sight glass, yep, I'm not happy with it seeping fluid. Will have to find some thicker walled tubing and try again. All of the joints are oozing fresh grease when I bought it, and the owner made it a point to tell me that he disable the automatic grease system so he does it manually with a grease gun. I purchased a grease gun last week and two canisters of Moly-Graph "extreme pressure" general purpose grease. I plan to lube all the fittings before next use. The former owner said he gets all his replacement parts on ebay for a lot less money than buying from Komatsu and suggested I do the same. I realize there are situations like with the oil filter having a check valve that can cause catastrophic failures. I have to be careful to make sure they're selling genuine products, if I go that route. I put in a contact request with Komatsu a week ago and have not heard back from them yet. The filter I pointed out in blue arrow IS paper pleated on my machine. Is that the wrong filter that the prior owner put in? It was said that this is supposed to be a strainer. But the strainer is inside the filter on the side with the red arrow. That filter has a metal perforated outside layer. I want to make sure I put the correct filters in. I know it's critical to the lifespan of the pump.
This is going 65 pages +.............bet the farm guys!
If you keep doing "will fits" and cheapest cost repairs, your going to have one expensive yard ornament. You may end up creating more issues than your fixing.
You a bad man . Bob
The item in the bottom of the tank is supposed to be a brass strainer. It is on the suction side of the pump and there should never be a filter there. Did you watch the video? It shows removing that from the tank.
I've never seen any thing but a screen on a shovel hyd. tank if you have not actually pulled that to look at it do so. when you do park the tank over the space between the tracks. I will bet the bottom of your tank is full of sludge. So you might as well drain the tank. If that screen gets plugged you pump will howl till it comes apart. Bob
At the 7:00 point he pulls a strainer out of that filler side. Mine has a paper filter cartridge there. I wonder why the former owner did that? He'd been running the machine like that all the time he'd owned it, as he admitted never touching the hydraulic system during his ownership period. Now if Komatsu would find the time to respond to my inquiry so I can order these elements. Remaining concern is why the left travel lever lacks fine control. It goes from zero to full instantly--no fine control--which makes moving and turning the machine a jerky affair. It wasn't like that a week ago.
Have you pulled yours out yet? how about a picture? Bob
https://www.komatsustores.com/newington.htm Call them with your serîal number, get the correct parts, stop guessing and buying cheap stuff that may or may not be correct for your machine. Buy a parts book from them, this will stop the guess work. None of this will be cheap, but it will certainly be cheaper than hydraulic pumps, motors, valves, and you will know for sure you've gotten the machine back to center and it has the correct parts instead of the "cheap eBay parts" the previous guy used...I would also do the same for the engine.....
There is serial number breaks. I picked one.
Suction screen...in tank bottom 201-60-65210
That's exactly what mine looks like. It doesn't look like a 'screen' but this paper pleated filter. I guess I do have the correct part in there. But the box and part number will make my search a LOT easier. Thanks for posting that photo. Thanks for these parts lists. For some reason I can't find them in the service manual or the owner's manual. This is helpful too. The track controls were on my mind all day today, so when the rain finally stopped, I put on my boots and went out to the excavator and started it up. Swung 90° and lifted the left track. Gradually applied stick first forward then backward. I found I could start at a creeping slow rate and accelerate as I pushed stick forward. Same for reverse. Lowered the track back down and did the same on the other side. Same thing. Perfect ramping up from a stop to full speed in both directions. Now I am wondering if I had been imagining this issue with it going to full speed, or if the problem just cleared up on it's own. The hydraulics are quiet, like they were before I changed out the lines, so all seems to be running normally. Left to do is to flush out that old fluid and change strainer and filter. I do intend to drain the tank and try to get any sludge that might be on the bottom out of there. Recommendations for cleaning the sludge, ie, solvents or other cleaning aids to remove sludge would be appreciated. The bucket pins are a bit sloppy in the lateral axis. Do I need new pins, or is there something in need of adjustment to reduce lateral play? Aside from that, the machine seems to work great now. Global Parts has it for $199 + $30 shipping.. does that sound excessive for this part? https://globalpartszone.com/komatsu/2016065210-1.html
My Komatsu price is $225 UsD.
I took out the strainer today and cleaned it. It actually IS a metal mesh, so fine, I could not differentiate it from a pleated paper filter due to the film coating on it. Once I cleaned it though, I could see through the mesh. Looks like this part can be cleaned and reused. After that, I got out the new grease gun and greased all of the fittings. Even the swing bearings, front and rear. It's clear to me that I need to find a thicker tubing for the sight glass. It leaks pretty badly when the machine is working. Seems like I need tubing that's 1/2" OD, but 5/16" ID, not 3/8" ID like the tubing Home Depot sells. Apparently HD does have 5/16" ID tubing, just not in the store--you have to order it online. Making progress though. As soon as I find the right tubing, I'll flush the system and replace all the fluid.
The sightglass tubing is $36 from Komatsu. You're going to have a hard time finding oil resistant, metric, clear tubing elsewhere.
You're going to have a hard time finding oil resistant, metric, clear tubing elsewhere.[/QUOTE] And that will tolerate the heat as well. Nothing the home improvement stores sell is appropriate.
Geeze, I finally get the hydraulics squared away, and start using the machine and this happens. How much do these cost to replace? http://www.amtequipmentparts.com/ru...-7 Rubber Track - Pair 450x83.5x72 | $3620.99 $6,000 dollars????!!
Try searching by track size 450x83. 5kx74.
IMO you are at a crossroads. Bite the bullet and get another rubber track, or, make the change to real rails and track pads. On a machine of that size I would like real rails myself.
By real rails are you talking about metal Caterpillar treads?
The rail is the steel chain that you bolt track pads onto. You can still have rubber surfaced pads if you really need them, or metal grousers. Here is an example link https://www.mclarenindustries.com/u.../rubber-tracks-and-steel-tracks/00971/009878/
But honey it was a really good deal. You need to keep repeating this till she A. gets tired of beating you or B. shows pity and tells you where she's going on vacation. Good luck Bob
I submitted a quote request on that site. Is that a complete set of treads and chain, or just a chain? I wonder if the tracks on my machine are almost 20 years old. If I simply replace them, I'll probably get a long use out of them as my usage isn't commercial and only an hour a day. I spent an hour today dredging out my pond. Was shocked to find buried "treasure" under that muck. Ordering a rolloff to get rid of that this week.
https://gearflow.com/itm/angled-pad-rubber-track-300x52-5x74 Everyone else is asking in the thousands.
"Burn it bury it or both?". Is that a saying?
It sounds like one of those "if it sound too good to be true it probably is" and "you get what you pay for" I am always looking for a deal but have been burned a few times so I get not wanting to spent a lot on an older machine for your own use. I would try looking for a used track. the one in the link scares me unless there is a local dealer or someone you know that has had experience with them, How could they be so much cheaper?
The track in the link is a much smaller track going by the numbers. You need 450x83. 5kx74 and the one in the link is 300x52x74
Oh crap. I searched on the right numbers but the first thing Google returned was the wrong size track! These things are dang expensive and heavy! At this point i may have to bail out and try to get my money out by selling to a cash buyer. I can't afford these tracks unless I skip the July property tax payment. Where would I get a used track that's not about to break? UPDATE: one vendor called me back with a quote on the steel growsers... $4200. vs. $6500 for rubber. Only other problem is they can't ship til Jul 30. Machine would be down for 5 weeks.
By dimensions, I found this on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1740747077...EkhMMq2KO%2B83zs%2BL|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675 Although it says it's for a PC78.
cheapest i could find in the first two pages of results, maybe if you call them they'll sell you a single track. https://rubbertracksamerica.com/pages/search-results?q=450X83.5X74
Both tracks look like they are badly cracked and missing large chunks. I suspect that as soon as I change one, the other will fail. Tracks must be over 20 years old. I found a pair on ebay for about 3850. I can pay with PayPal credit. 169 a month for 24 months. But the more I think about it, the more I'd prefer metal tracks. I've put in a question and am still waiting for sellers response.
What kind of grease gun is powerful enough to tighten these tracks? I tried adding some grease to the adjusters but the handle on the gun stops dead. I have to squeeze with both hands but this us both very difficult as well as it feels the the handle may bend or break. Also, it was impossible to uncouple the fitting/hose from the grease fitting by hand afterwards. Had to use a pry bar and pliers to pull it off! They have electric grease guns but my gut tells me I need some serious power, not a harbor freight class tool here.
Might need to change rollers or other components to switch to steel tracks. Need to check that out first. You are finding out where the term money pit comes from. Be glad it's not a bigger machine.
The person I talked to at McClaren Industries about the metal tracks didn't mention anything about needing to change anything on the excavator to use them, but that's a consideration that never occurred to me. I think I prefer steel tracks because there are a lot of little rocks churned up in the fill I am driving over. That may be a contributing factor to the breakage of the old rubber track. Metal tracks don't care--they just crush any rocks that find their way into the sprockets. When I bought this machine, I figured I'd get a hundred hours of use before something broke. Instead the first problem occurred less than 4 hours into operation, and it's been a continuous chain of problems since. I was naively thinking that I could so a few projects less than 50 hours total and then resell it in a year or two. The previous owner fortuitously sold it just hours before major problems erupted. Now I've got the task of finding a way to get this machine operational again, so it's not down all summer. I finally got it to the point where it's not leaking hydraulic fluid anymore. I've yet to replace the ignition switch (the preheat position won't turn in that direction and it's tricky to start the machine because you must pull the key out just a smidge to find the right point at which it will turn. Tracks had better be it for a long while. I don't like the idea of going into debt this late in life.
It seems that the pitch is different if using a metal shoe. The number 74 came up in number of shoes in this one. The next page shows the rubber shoe and doesn't mention anything other than width and shoe pitch.
That might be because rubber tracks are not inspected and measured to determine their wear rate in the same way as steel undercarriage. Steel U/C has specifications and wear limits for everything. I would surmise that rubber tracks are more of a subjective visual inspection for damage. Can you post a photo or two of the area around the grease zerk for the tensioner.? This thread may be of interest to you. The problem is still unresolved but I would say whatever the fix is for that machine will be the same for yours - HeavyEquipmentForums
Rubber bands will always fail because of cuts. I've yet to see a band removed because it is stretched out beyond the adjustment of the front idler. Most track bands have a steel catch that locks on the sprocket and is held in place in the band by the rubber and steel strands that run the length of the track bands. The failure mode is a cut in the rubber that exposes one of the steel cables and allows water in and corrosion to occur. Once one band breaks, the track starts to separate at that point increasing the tear and exposing the next band in a cascading failure. I've seen literature showing some brands using Kevlar instead of steel to elevate the corrosion issue. The most common cuts seen on bands are caused by running the machine parallel to curbing in a housing development. Those cuts to the sides of the bands are for the most part cosmetic unless they are so far into the side of the band that they expose a cord. The bands put very little wear on the other components of the undercarriage. Track bands in general can last into the 2,000 hour time frame of use with a good operator. Most of the machines that I have inspected for the Cat dealer over twelve years of employment seldom go more than 1,000 hours, again because of the operator or the type of use employed by the owners. Switching a machine from rubber track bands to steel chain is not necessarily doable either. I've inspected some machines where the dimensions of the bottom rollers were not the same as a machine set up for rubber bands. The drive lugs on the bands may be too narrow for the inside flanges used on many brands of mini excavators. More than a few times I've been called onto a job site where a new band did't fit right. The solution more than once was to call in the ignorant sales rep and rub his nose in the problem to solve the issue for my client. Steel track with rubber block pads, in my opinion is a more cost effective solution to minimize travel damage to pavement and concrete. The rubber coating on the pads will cut and pull off but you are dealing with individual pads instead of track bands as a whole. This set up cost a lot more than the rubber bands but lasts many times longer costing significantly less in cost per hour.
This is on the left side of the house: and this is on the right side: The manual shows this procedure.. "if the grease cannot be pumped in, move the machine back and forth." I wonder if they mean to have someone operate the track with the side of the machine lifted, while attempting to pump in grease?
I got a better look at my tracks while I was out snapping photos of the fittings. The track on the right must have been replaced recently. It has no small cracks in it. It does have one 2" break on the outer edge in one spot. The track that broke however has thousands of small cracks everywhere between the raised parts of the shoe. It's got maybe a dozen deeper gashes in the edge. But the cracking looks like UV light damage. I've seen these cracks on tires on abandoned vehicles that have sat for more than 20 years. That track is probably original with 6100 hours on it, is my guess. The other track seems much newer and is in much better condition.
Try removing the two small bolts, the keeper plate and the block. That will allow you to remove the "double nut" (arrowed) as an assembly which likely has a check valve inside it. Try installing the zerk into the assembly with it off the machine and see if you can pump grease through it. If it won't take grease then the check valve would appear to be stuck. You might manage to free it with some form of penetrating oil or paraffin.
They don't last 6,000 hours in any type of use. It is common to only replace one track when they break.
By "keeper plate", do you mean the L shaped bracket that's there to stop the bleeder from coming off if the nut is over loosened? From what I've been reading about these, there's some 15,000 PSI of pressure behind these nuts. From what I can tell from reading the manual, it is only the outer (large) hex nut that is supposed to be loosened (maximum of one turn) to let the grease ooze out. I assume that this procedure is done AFTER the pressure is released from this cylinder. Then the bracket, nut and grease fitting come off. Do I understand that correctly? Is the check valve in the grease fitting itself? I looked at a video of how a grease fitting works and it showed a ball bearing with a spring behind it. The spring keeps the bearing up against the opening in the tip of the fitting, sealing it shut. Effectively, a check valve. It looks like the outer nut is the one the manual refers to, and is to be loosened no more than one turn, to relieve the grease from the cylinder. The L bracket and both nuts come off to remove the whole assembly for inspection? Can't the Zerk itself be removed without taking it all apart first? Or is that a safety issue? This cylinder operates at extremely high pressures and I want to be sure I'm doing this safely. People apparently have been seriously injured or even killed because of removing parts that were still under pressure. The important question (for safety) is how to be certain these nuts are not under pressure before removal.
Yes. First crack the large nut (bleeder) a turn to relieve the grease pressure. When the grease stops coming out there should be no pressure left in the track tensioner. You will find that the outer and inner nuts are all one assembly. A groove has been machined into it. This is where the keeper plate fits to prevent the bleeder being unscrewed more than the specified one turn while under pressure. Once you have released the grease pressure the valve assembly can be safely removed but obviously you need to be careful. If there is a location on the front end of the track frame where you can get some wood blocks or wedges in behind the idler wheel so much the better. That will prevent the idler from retracting and avoid nasty surprises. Here's the deal. It appears as though the grease zerk is a modification. Usually the whole bleeder assembly is one piece and the zerk is part of that, not separate. The clue is that the zerk is normally straight (like the one on the other side), not 90-degree. John C mentioned that in his opinion the assembly has been modified by drilling and tapping a thread for a replacement zerk. I bet if you clean the other side you'll find that the zerk is part of the larger assembly and not a separate item. So the deal is that deeper inside the bleeder assembly is a ball-type check valve designed to prevent the grease pressure being held by only the little ball in the head of the zerk. The thought is that ball inside is stuck/seized and that's why you can't get grease into it. To get at the check valve you're going to need the whole bleeder assembly removed from the machine.
All you have to do is loosen the fitting the grease fitting is in and screw it open till it hits the keeper plate . This will allow grease in adjuster to exit. You may have to push on the idler to get it to go in ,this will relieve the track. This has nothing to do with the recoil spring. When you put the new track on close the fitting and add grease till your track adjustment is right. Bob
Thank you for all of the suggestions and hints on unsticking that Zerk. Now what remains is to find a track. I have my neighbor, who is visiting PA this week, looking for one, but no luck so far. My own efforts to find a used but still serviceable track have been fruitless so far as well. The ebay seller with the pair of tracks has not responded to my question yet. In the meantime, I have a very expensive yard ornament until I can resolve this.
I just heard back from Rubber Tracks of America and they counteroffers with about $3350 cost for a new pair of tracks. Ship time 3-4 days they said. Paid with Paypal credit, because I'm all out of savings. I did not realize these tracks weigh 908lbs each! Getting them onto the excavator will take some doing. Especially if I can't get those grease Zerks released.
You need to inspect other parts of the undercarriage too. Generally you need new sprockets but maybe not with rubber tracks? What are the rollers like, etc.? I sure hope you don't put yourself in a bad financial situation because of this machine.
I buy singles all the time. I know you've got them coming, but, what size are they?
rarely do you need idlers or sprockets. The rollers can get beat, and I have replaced a top roller.
450x83. 5kx74. I asked if they fit the PC60-7 and they confirmed it does. I still feel like I'm making a gamble here, but I see no other option other than taking a huge loss on the machine. But 900lbs a piece. How the heck will I get those onto the machine? I've watched a video showing how to change tracks on a mini, but nothing this large. Also, I'm parked in a dirt area, lots of sand and small rocks. Wish I were on a paved area, but there's no pavement anywhere around here. As far as the rollers and such, I am not sure what to look for in terms of inspection.
If you can get close enough, you can use the machine to help move the tracks. If it still moves smooth an area to replace the tracks. New tracks should help if you decide to sell it in a couple years.
I'm pretty sure I can use the bucket and a strong set of ropes to move the tracks close to the machine, but how to get the last couple of feet and get the tracks onto the sprocket and idler becomes the looming question. I'm sure new tracks will help with the resale. I'm hoping nothing else goes wrong in the meantime. I don't have much of what you would call "smooth ground" here. The back yard is swampy. The driveways are of dirt and 1" crushed stone that has been churned up by driving the machine over it. Maybe I could buy some plywood (at $114 a sheet) and lay it down along side the machine and then slide it under the area where the track goes; that might make it less messy. Any way I look at this, it's going to be a struggle. I'm open to tips and suggestions from those with experience on changing midi excavator tracks.
You can put on rubber bands anywhere. The bit issue is getting the front idlers all the way back in the track frames. Release the grease fitting and use the bucket to push the idler all the way into the track frame. If it is out at the end and won't move in, you will need to remove the adjuster and spring assemble and repair or replace it. If it will move in, the you use the boom and bucket to get the track close. Pick up the side where you are going to install the track and put blocks under the machine to hold the bottom rollers about a foot off the ground. Then you can again use the boom, stick and bucket to work the track on. Get the band over the sprocket first and work the track onto the top rollers and work forward to the idler. You may need a bar or two and I have used a chain or wire rope sling to pull the band over the front idler. They can be a fight but it isn't that big a deal after you have done your first one.
Thanks for describing the process John. The part about using the bucket to push in the idler is particularly helpful. Raising that side of the machine on blocks might be a sticky area, due to the soft ground, stuff sinks right in. Maybe blocks and 2x12s to spread out the weight. I hope there's nothing preventing the idler from moving. That cylinder assembly is scary. I read there's a spring in there that is under tons of compression force. Not something I want to mess with. In the meantime, I've been spraying WD40 on those Zerks and surrounding components daily, to have hope that it will loosen. BTW, both Zerks are right angle. The one on the right side of the machine is actually loose! I can turn it by hand. Makes sense that they'd have a right angle otherwise you couldn't get a grease gun fitting over it due to the interference of the surrounding structure.
Rubber Tracks of America just refunded my payment for purchase of new rubber tracks. Rubber Tracks of America Order #6536 Your order has been canceled Order #6536 was canceled because we did not have enough stock to fulfill your order and your payment has been refunded . I just checked the link where I bought the tracks and they are still for sale, but about $1000 more than they were priced at yesterday! Now I'm back to square one.
This place has a more reasonable rate. But the track specified for my model has a different track pitch. 76 instead of 83. https://monstertires.com/shop/komatsu-pc60-7/
Call them and see what the %$#@! is going on. If they only have 1 track ask how long for the 2nd one. They shouldn't advertise what they don't have and even if you have to wait a bit, should honour the price they advertised. The transaction was all but completed. I think upping the price now, after the fact, is false advertising.
Found another place with a decent price. Had to apply for their Affirm credit line because they don't take Paypal. They said shipping takes a few days. I hope!
I totally agree and am steamed about it. I gave them my frank honest opinion of their policy and they simply said they don't have them in stock and the next container shipment is at higher prices. Honor doesn't mean anything to these people. I reported them to the authorities, not that it will do any good. Hopefully this other vendor won't screw around like that. I'm REALLY starting to regret my decision to buy this machine. I should have rented one for a month, probably would have been cheaper.
It might be worth it if new tracks give you a fully useable machine. It is nice having a machine available right when you need it. It's a good lesson for the next time you want purchase something you could use rather than something you must have.
Where do you figure that someone's price can't change? Did you read the fine print in the sales receipt? You can find all kinds of posts on this forum stating that parts availability is spotty at best and you have an older machine that is likely gray market. You are just going to have to do the best that you can. It's Business!
I never said prices can't change. Changing them after they've been quoted and money has been sent doesn't fly with anyone. Some would consider it false advertising or at least bad business practice. Has nothing to do if it's a gray market machine. The seller had already confirmed they were the proper tracks. If they didn't have stock and the price could change, they should have told him then. $1000 higher price after bating a customer is a lot!
They returned his money. It’s now a new transaction. They can do anything they want.
The OEM rubber track # is 201-32-76110 , but, it didn't help with search or with the dimensions.
Once there is an offer and acceptance is considered a contract. There clearly was in this case. The question is whether or not to pursue a breach of contract suit. Most times the lawyers take all the money. Certainly worth reporting though.
Talked to my buddy Nick @ Rio Rubber track. They have them in stock in both the east and west coast warehouses.
Breach of contract. Well said, Welder Dave! I have a similar solution with a EPDM roof coatings company whose product failed after 2 years but was warranted for 15 and the company passed the buck to their manufacturer, who ignored me. 'Been asking attorneys to look into it, but they're ignoring me too. I looked at Rio Tracks, but I could not afford the asking price. I did manage to get Monster Tracks to confirm the right size and that there are two tracks for my $3395. Keeping fingers crossed that this actually arrives. This is only one of six major problems I'm dealing with on various fronts. It's been a terrible month.
I had a course on basic law back in school. If something is mutually agreed upon by both parties and there is an offer and acceptance, constitutes a contract. A so called friend agreed to buy a garden tractor from me and I even let him use it for a couple month's. He could pay in stages if he preferred. Kept saying he'd pay me and even broke the cable that engages the blades. I went to collect the money and he had some other excuse. I picked the machine up but could have sued him instead. Didn't want the bad blood between us but I will not help him with anything anymore. I have done a lot of welding and helping him and his brothers repair stuff on the farm. I will not sell anything to anyone without cash up front! The other problem is you can win in court but if the other party doesn't pay, you have to go through more BS. Your case is a little different and a court could have ordered them to supply the tracks at the agreed upon price. Include the cost of shipping vs free shipping when comparing prices. It sounds like you may have found the best price on tracks though. Hopefully they don't screw you around like the 1st place.
Thank you for the mini course in contract law. I agree, but it would be too much of a hassle. I'm swamped at the moment, plus I'm too old for this crap. I need less turbulence at this stage of life. One of the reasons I bought the machine is pressure from the wife, who's concerned seeing me move 120 yrds of fill with nothing but a shovel and wheelbarrow last year. To the good, I lost 20 lbs. To the bad, there's still a ton more work to do. That price is delivered. If it arrives, I'll consider it a miracle, considering everyone else is asking $4400 to $6500 now. Dealers are telling me the price goes up every week.
Hopefully no problems getting the tracks from this outfit. Unfortunately there are some companies that have some pretty shady business practices and they play the odds that no one is going to call them on it. Now if a customer happened to be a lawyer or had a friend or relative that was a lawyer, then it might be worth the hassle. I had a coupon for a free oil change. I went to the place and of course they're trying to sell me other stuff I didn't need. When they were done tried to charge me for extra oil saying the free oil change only allowed for 4 litres. When I asked them where it says that on the coupon, they got kind of snooty and said "we'll let it go this time". It has to clearly outlined if there are any conditions or restrictions on the coupons. It just said free oil and filter with their standard oil. If I would have wanted synthetic oil they could have charged extra.
Well I'm glad I have e-mails from them, so I have it in writing. Just waiting for a tracking number.
Still waiting for a tracking number form Monster Tires...
Sometimes it may take a day or 2 depending on how busy they are and when the shipper picks them up. Being they're heavy would need a different truck than the standard truck that picks up small packages.
I sure hope you're right! Trying to buy tracks for this machine has been fraught with many false starts, delays and cancellations from various vendors. If I ever make it through this calamity, I hope to never see any other problems with this machine for a good number of operation hours.
More than 1 supplier screwed you over? You will still have things to repair but you could on a new machine too. You hope it's simpler things like blowing a hose or needing a new battery.
I got this e-mail from the financing company tonight: "– MonsterTires.com has processed your order, and your loan has been confirmed!" I guess they were waiting for the financing to go through. $566/month. Considering my SS is $730/month, that's gonna be tough. Thankfully my much younger wife is still earning income at a job. In the meantime, their listing for that track, the price dropped about a grand and "/track" appears next to it. So it appears the new price is per track, because it's doubtful that two tracks would be selling for $2340. Hopefully I'll have two new tracks next week. In the meantime, I greased the heck out of the swing bearing after reading how expensive they are to replace! Both fittings, then swung the house around a few times and greased again till it oozed out some of the old grease. I'm anxious to get back to pond dredging. I spent the week out there with my chain saw cutting up a double oak that was felled last year whose tops cover the pond. Almost done clearing that out. I'll get my GoPro camera strapped on when I go do that project and post some video soon. If I get the new tracks installed.
I don't think the swing bearing needs lots of grease pushed out.
I was reading up on a couple of threads on this forum, and they, and a maintenance video on Youtube, said the major reason for bearing failures is lack of grease. They went on to say that new grease should be pumped in in sufficient quantities to push out the old grease and that the old grease should be inspected for metal particles/slivers. It makes sense. The other thing I need to do is inspect the play on the bearing. It's said that 0.035" is new and 0.050" of play is typical for an older bearing. I need to get a gauge and measure it to make sure it's still good. In the meantime, grease the heck out of it and hope it is going to last with no troubles. Still no shipment tracking on the tracks though..
Just got an e-mail with a PRO#.. it's en route now!
Here is a thread I found in a quick search dealing with greasing the swing bearing. Would probably be good to try and clean up the excess grease as much as possible. PC200LC-8 swing bearing seal. | Heavy Equipment Forums
I saw a video where someone had a seal on a Hitachi excavator that had fallen down and they were using silicone adhesive to fix it back in place. Another site said to put in enough grease to push out the old grease. Conflicting info is no good. I probably pumped each fitting 30 times or more. So I guess the grease is adequate.
That sounds like a lot of grease. Hopefully it didn't blow any seals out. Still should try and clean up all the grease that was pushed out. It's a magnet for dirt and you don't want that to get into the bearing. I don't think you'd find a better site on heavy equipment than this one. I'd bet money on it. There's a ton of knowledge and more importantly years and years of experience on here. If you're getting conflicted info or not sure, just ask before proceeding. Going to different sites just muddies the water.
What do you recommend as best method for cleaning up the excess grease (in my case, not a lot of it) at the base of the swing bearing? It seems that rags get gummed up real quick. Maybe a small wooden stick to get the excess first and then follow up with rags? Not sure if I read it on here, but someone was saying to pump in new grease to push out the old grease. May have been on this group, which turned up near the top of my Google search. I guess I have enough grease in my swing bearing now, but I wish I could have a way to check the actual level rather than guessing.
Did you watch my video on excavator maintenance? You can’t push out the seal by over greasing it. It does make a mess on the car body below but that doesn’t hurt anything. The video shows you only need a few pumps and then you turn the house a few times to distribute it. You can clean the grease on the car body with a putty knife. Don’t do anything on the bearing or you might damage or knock out the seal from the groove. You might also pick up an Operation and Maintenance manual to answer your questions.
A manual for your new to you machine should have been the 1st thing to get but I guess you're learning along the way. Don't want to see you cause yourself more grief or $$$.
I've got both the operator's manual and the shop manual. Collectively about 750 pages to read! Not always easy to find what I'm looking for in there though. I did watch your maintenance video John C. Glad to hear I won't damage anything by over greasing. I did pump in some grease into both front and rear fittings and then turned the house to a different angle and greased some more. Then I spun the house around back and forth twice to distribute the grease. Just trying to stay on top of important maintenance items.
In the link I posted it mentioned pushing a seal out and Uffex said it wasn't uncommon when over greased. I would think the operators manual should have mention of greasing the slew bearing.
I was looking all through the Shop manual and found procedures for replacing the bearing, but nothing apparent about greasing. In the Operation manual, there is a mention of swing pinion grease level. It mentioned 5 liters of grease. It mentions removing a cover plate and lowering a scale inside. 20mm expected grease level. Right below that, it mentions greasing swing circle. It shows where to pump in the grease, but it doesn't mention how much grease, just to wipe excess grease that was pushed out.
I spent two hours in the 90 degree sunshine drilling out the first bolt on the bottom of the house where the three bolts were rusted in and broke off during removal of bottom cover plate. I used five drill bit sizes from pilot size to 27/64". The last three went quickly. Then I tapped it for 1/2" threads. Off to HD later to buy a bunch of stainless bolts. This is doable, not quite as difficult as I first thought. Tracks left Santa Fe Springs CA and are en route. My neighbor (with diesel mechanic experience), and a young friend of mine, also a mechanic and race car driver, will be on tap this Friday to assist with the track replacement.
Use standard bolts (grade 5) and anti-seize. If you put stainless bolts and they are aren't completely coated with anti-seize could gall and you've got the same problem only worse. Now you have to drill out stainless bolts. Good luck with that.
Roger on that grade 5 bolt. In anticipation of the arrival of new tracks, I have built a platform and set the machine car on blocks. Gonna be interesting to see if: I can loosen the idler I can move the new track onto the sprocket and idler I can pump grease into the Zerk and tighten the track.
I thought the tracks were so bad you couldn't move the machine. You're using the cinder blocks the right way but wood blocking is much better as it can't crumble under heavy loads. Curious why you didn't level off the area you're work on better?
Take a closer look at the middle top of the track. If I roll over this area, the track will come off. It's broken more than halfway through. I graded a little bit, but the machine has limited movement with that track the way it is.
Really hard to see how bad the track is from the pics. You could use the bucket to make a level area and you wouldn't have to move too much at all.
Cinder block is a huge no no for any kind of equipment stand. The wood you have under the track is going to get in the way and you need to be a lot higher when you start pulling the old track off and putting the new track on.
The track is torn more than halfway through. If I drive the machine so that the broken area goes over the sprocket, it slips and starts to come off the sprocket. I've been moving the machine 5 feet at a time, by lifting one side, rolling the track back, lowering it, moving 5 more feet, etc. Cement blocks are all I have. I put the boards on top to distribute the pressure, because direct contact with the blocks would crush them. I've got a couple of inches of space between the track and the planks. Why wouldn't that be enough? I just ordered a DeWalt grease gun. 10,000 PSI, 5oz /min, electric cordless 20V. Also ordered a Lock 'n Lube extra long reach coupler. They should arrive Friday. The rolloff I filled up last week with muck from my pond weighed in at 7.67 tons. 6.67 tons over the weight limit. $727.10 overweight fee on a $355 rental. Yikes. Need to get this done so I can get back to earning money in my shop.
Listen, John was not kidding about the cinder blocks and there is beyond good reason for it. they are called cinder blocks for a reason, they turn to cinders with the sharp cornered and hammer type loads that happen when blocking up equipment. If all you were doing is blocking it up, sure they work. But you are not. You are going to wrestle off and on a 900# track and the easiest way to do that is with the excavator itself. Now you are swinging around and pushing on things and shifting loads. $150 of retail 6x6 might save your life. It also might make the job easier. You can chain a 4' length of it to the bottom of the bucket to extend your reach IN toward the work, then use short chain to that beam to first pull the track off the idler and then off the sprocket and out of the way. Reverse the process to get the new one on. John is also right in that the boards will just be something to get hung up on, while dragging it in. Also, a little higher is better at that time. YOur boards would be good if you were hand wrestling it in there but use the hydraulics you have.
$355 rental for a roll off bin that only holds 1 ton seems quite high to me. For muck a dump truck is much better. A tandem typically carries about 12 tons. If you have to haul more away, look into hiring a dump truck for 2 or 3 hours.
I put wood blocks on top of the concrete blocks to prevent shattering. I'd agree that if it were metal on top of concrete, the blocks would shatter. But I've got 2x6 beams between the car and the top of the blocks. As for moving the tracks, I can only get them so close, because the bucket will not come in that far. Closest the bucket will come is about 30" away from the track. I tested it. I'm going to have to use long metal bars to pry the track toward the machine, it looks like. The rolloff fee was pretty high because, well, this is Connecticut. Also, the dumping fee is 90% of the cost. Whether it gets hauled in a rolloff or a dumptruck, the landfill is going to charge $110/ton. I got most of the trash out of the pond. The rest I'll pick up by hand and put it into regular trash.
I called the shipper to find out what time of day the tracks would arrive. (I have a dental appointment in the afternoon to work around). And, I learned that I need to make an appointment for a residential delivery. No one told me that. So it's not coming on the day it was scheduled to arrive. The earliest date is Monday, but I have to take daughter to a dental appointment on Monday, so it may be pushed to Tuesday. I wish they had e-mailed me the fact that I needed to make an appointment. We have a nice weekend that will go to waste and rain all next week.
It's a pretty big and heavy item for a residential delivery, especially if there's no forklift or something to unload it. I don't think a delivery truck is going to drive out in the field to unload it unless it's a nice road to get there. Do you have a way to move it to your machine? Also not sure if they will bend their schedule to accommodate you but maybe. If they have a way to unload it, do you have to be there to sign anything? I've had small packages just left on the doorstep. They have other deliveries to make. If you have to be there, try to get a time and do everything to be there. It seems like you make everything more difficult than it has to be.
The shipper usually calls me on the day of delivery so there was no way for me to predict the need to make an appointment for delivery. It depends on the truck but if they can back it all the way to the excavator I can reach it with the bucket to offload it with chains. Unfortunately my helper goes back to long Island after the weekend and the sunny weather ends with a week of thunderstorms ahead in the forecast. So I'll be putting on the tracks alone in the rain.
Today I got my DeWalt electric grease gun. Impressive tool. I installed the extension fitting from Lock 'n Lube on it. Grease is on the way. Think I'll go to Harbor Freight and buy an assortment of hooks and links so I can have some versatility in chaining options. I went out to the excavator and loosened the 1-1/16" grease nut and the idler moved. To get it to move all the way, I out a 2x4 in the bottom of the track and ran the track backwards very slowly. That pulled it all the way back. I'm thinking of using a chain with a hook on the end, one end attached to the bucket, the other with the hook over the edge of the track. Then I can rotate it over the 2x4 and get it completely clear of the idler and then stick out with the bucket slowly to pull the front end of the track away. Then move the hook to the back and do the same. Of course, putting the new track on will be interesting.
strap on an extension across the bottom of the bucket to extend your reach. A 4x6 or 6x6 will do.
Welcome to the world of equipment ownership and repairs. I think it would be an exercise in futility trying to put the tracks on in the mud. How far in the Bush is your machine?
How do I strap an extention onto the bucket in such a way that it won't slip loose? I bought a bunch of chains, hooks and long steel bars earlier today. I can pull the old track off by wrapping chain around it and pulling it with the bucket. Getting the new track that last 3' will be tricky, but I'll find a way. Even if it involves snatchblocks and ropes to create pull in the the desired direction by moving the stick outward. There isn't any pavement within a 1/3 mile of here. That would be the main road that my private dirt road is connected to. I'll make do somehow.
the big cargo ratchet straps. Stick the board or fence post or what-have-you on the ground over a couple of straps, set the bucket on top with some of it sticking out the back. Strap the back and then strap the front over the teeth. Might need a little dunnage there over the teeth. It will give you that 300# pick without breaking anything.
The tracks are "out for delivery since 8:43".. I am stop #8. I managed to lash a couple of 2x6 screwed together to the bucket with tie downs. Maybe it can lift 300lbs before the tie downs snap. Anyway, the board will reach the tracks now. So I may be able to use it to lift slightly and push. Flash flooding today, so gonna be interesting. Friday would have been great with the sunshine and 73 degree weather and two helpers (who went back to their home state Sunday).
Tracks arrived around 2pm. Box truck. Driver struggled to lift pallate with pallate jack. Took 20 minutes to get that thing off the truck. Had to take daughter to dental appointment at 3, so didn't get back to work til 4pm. Taking the old track off was easy. Putting the new one on looked impossible for one person. I could get it only so close. The cargo straps broke three times while lifting and pushing track closer. Angles were not advantageous as I swung around. What I eventually did was use a chain and a come-along winch to pull the track in the direction, plus levers (long 2x6's) to pry and push, and a 16lb sledge hammer to slide the bottom of the track closer. Eventually, I got one end over the final drive sprocket. Then I chained around the front of the track with the come-along to a tree and got it stretched out a bit and tight up to the sprocket teeth. Finally ended up putting the chain on the bucket and using the stick out to pull it onto the idler enough that I could pop it over the idler with a long 6' crowbar. I was a bit concerned that the new track was considerably longer than the old one. But I found that the range of the piston that moves the idler outward has the necessary range. I used my automatic electric grease gun and it took maybe a minute and a half to snug up the track. I ran the final drive to make sure it was properly seated and did the final tensioning of the track again. Removed the blocks from under the car and pulled out the platform and drove her out of there. She drives much better with this track. None of that popping and buckling slipping noise from before. I'm debating whether to change the other track as well. The other track is a little shorter, has a different tread pattern, but is not nearly as badly worn and cracked as the one that split. I would like to have everything symmetrical, but then, the other track isn't in that bad of a shape. Anyway, I can get back to work with this machine now.
By the way, I'm looking for the lower windshield assembly (owner never had one when he sold it to me) not just the glass. I search on the windshield and frame, but keep coming back with just the glass and no frame. Where can I get this assembly? That it's missing is the reason everything is rusty under the floor. It gets flooded in the cab when it rains.
Might be hard to find a window frame. Why not just put the other new track on and be done with it. Keep the old one in case something goes terribly wrong with one of the new ones.
Hate to be the one to pee on your parade but that is the wrong track, it's too long. Bob
They all seem to be that long on machines in the last few years, even when new.
How much adjustment is left on the track adjuster?
With the idler bearing block half way out of track frame? Don't see how that might work. Bob
This is the size track I bought. Same as recommended here and also the same as the dealer recommends for this excavator model. It also matches up with the track spec in the owner manual. Maybe the old tracks shrunk a bit?
Yeah, I may have to build something myself. I can get the glass, but I'll have to weld up a metal frame and put rubber grommet around it. Hopefully I won't have to do that though. Yeah, I'm thinking to put the other track on later this week, before I go into the swamp and do more dredging. I like how the new track drives. Much smoother and quieter, no more crumbling and popping sounds. To answer your second question, I have no idea how much range is left on the idler piston. But for now, it's tight.
Look at the idler on the other side with the worn track ,you will see how it should set in the track frame. You are out of adjuster on the new side. maybe you should check out the track size before you use the new tracks and they can't be returned. Bob
Might be good see if they even make a track that is 4-6" or so shorter. Everything pointed toward the track you got so how are you supposed to know the new track will be longer? You would think the old track would stretch if anything. If it tightens and drives might be fine. Just have to watch on sharp turns what the idler does or pick that side up and see if the idler has a lot of side to side movement.
Get out you CSI kit and glasses. On either old track, look around the inboard of the rubber for dimensions/ size. Every track here is marked. This is bigger than most, but in the same place.
I also question it in my mind but it is what I've been seeing on all makes as well. When I've asked the question about it from the experts all I get is a dumb look and something about rubber bands not stretching like steel track chains. There is no metal frame that the kick window sits in. There are some fiber liners that fit in the grooves and the glass fits into that. It just uses the old style gate latches to hold the glass in place.
Interesting thread. Sounds very similar to my old Komatsu PC75UU-2 My situation is very similar with bad back and only me doing the work. I have had to replace my steel tracks numerous times by myself on slopes and other bad locations due to a bad idler cushion. Not an easy task but I have been able to do it myself. The previous owner(s) did not take very good care of the machine and made a bunch of changes using SAE parts instead of metric. Several of the hydraulic fittings leaked because of the wrong types. I am currently running an idler cushion from a PC60 (slightly smaller) that works as the previous owner removed a link from one of the tracks in order to use the existing idler without any seals. I had it repaired but it blew the seals right away with the shortened track (I hadn't realized that the one side had been shortened.) Still have to get the original idler repaired. I have been slowly attempting to make repairs/improvements in order to remedy previous repairs, but it has not been cheap or easy. I have learned a lot about the machine and have got a lot of work out of it for what I originally paid. If I had rented a machine to do what I have done it would have cost me more than double what I have put into the current machine. I have also plumbed my own auxiliary line and installed a hydraulic hammer which has saved a lot of work since my property is mostly rock (mountain side.) My front kick window is just a piece of plexiglass that has a couple of side clips holding it in place. The previous owner smashed the cab door and didn't bother keeping the hardware for the door so I designed and 3D printed a replacement door which I put on during the winter to keep out the weather. I bought the Dewalt electric grease gun last year and it makes the task of greasing the machine so much easier.
I'm in a similar type of terrain here in NW CT. All bedrock under the soil. Mountain pond. Lots of red oaks. Thanks for sharing your adventure of owning a used excavator. I think if the core of the machine is in servicable condition, then the rest is replacing smaller parts. 3D printing a door frame. I have to give you credit for that. I would never have thought it practical to print something that large. Just out of curiousity, what 3D printer did you use and how did you accomplish this? Maybe I can make a frame for the kick window this way. The guy who owned my machine didn't keep it clean. Many areas were packed with muck from decaying leaves and possibly mud. I think the rot of the pilot lines was caused by that muck, as the rest of the line was in decent condition. I did a lot of cleaning. I need to drill and tap new bolt holes for the bottom plate covers as well. One more pilot line looks iffy. As for the tracks, the adjustment is about 3" further out than the original tracks. It's not a huge amount, but I will do my best to check stability of the idlers. The Op manual mentions pumping in grease until the edge of the piston assembly is even with the edge of the track frame. "If still loose pin and bushing are excessively worn," it says. I don't know what pin and bushing this refers to. The old track is badly chewed up. I wasn't able to find a number on it first look. I'll take a better look now that it's off the machine.
I printed my door frame using PETG on a Predator. I had to design it in parts to make it fit the printer and then fasten it together. I used two threaded rods running vertically to hold it together as well as a slot and the Plexiglass sheet. The problem I have with it is the curve. I didn't bend the plexiglass so when the frame gets hot it wants to flatten out. However, it does what it is supposed to do which it to keep out the rain and snow during the winter when it is just sitting. My kick window has no frame. It is just a piece of plexi with a couple of clips holding it in place. I actually had to print the buttons for the spring clips because they were broken. Your new tracks look great. If you find that your idler is not tensioning them enough (too short) I seem to recall that you may be able to add a block of steel to the end of the idler cushion that would give you a little extra length. I have a tensioner for a PC60 on mine right now which I believe is a little shorter than the PC75 tensioner. This is a shot of the PC75 tensioner. I can't remember for sure but I believe there was an additional part that I took off the end of this one and put on the other to attach it to the idler. I expect that a 1" piece of steel added between the parts might work as an extender if needed. there are 4 bolt holes to connect the cushion to the idler. On my steel tracks I measure the distance between the track and the bottom centre idler like this: For rubber tracks it is like this: Keep in mind that these are for the PC75 I don't have a PC60 manual.
Wow! Thanks for those photos--especially of the kick window. I think I'll need a rubber gasket to seal out the water, but that idea with the sliding latch is brilliant simplicity. It's important to have this glass in place, as I find that the cab gets a lot of dust on everything in just an hour's use. The former owner kept the upper glass retracted all of the time. Cab was so dirty that instrument panel was opaque. I didn't realize there were digital gauges there until I cleaned the panel with steel wool and wax! I'll need to reupholster the seat eventually as the fabric is completely gone. A final touch would be a rubber floor mat. All in the plans as I go along. I didn't know that a block could be added to the idler cushion. Although it seems that I have enough travel on the piston, so it looks like it won't need that. The manual talks about tensioning until the top to bottom track measurement including sag is 220mm. I plan, weather permitting, to change the other track on Friday. Hopefully it will go even smoother, given what I learned from doing the first track. Thanks again for those photos. The glass and the recoil assembly photos are especially helpful!
The plexi on the kick is pushing against the main front rubber seal. Its good enough to keep the inside dry. I'll have to try the steel wool wax method for cleaning the panel. I can barely read mine. My fuel gauge stopped working and I couldn't figure out how to fix it so I added a 12V car one with a buck converter. Just wired it into the existing sender. It works fine.
It looks like mine lacks that rubber strip. Maybe that's why all the replacement glass I find online has no frame--it's meant to press into the rubber strip. So I need to locate that strip and get a new one. Clever retrofit with the fuel gauge! I think mine works, but it reads generously. Looking down into the tank, it seems the fuel is more than 12" down from the filler cap, but the gauge showed all but the last bar in black. When I added 10 gallons, the gauge then read full. I wonder if it really would read empty if the tank were empty?
I just found a gauge that fit in the same range for the sender Full(10 ohm) Empty (85 ohm) and connected it up. 12v units were way cheaper so I just used a buck converter to power it. On mine the filler tube is quite long. I did have to replace the return line from the injectors recently as it had hardened and cracked and leaked when I filled my tank. Mine also has one of those ball indicators that connects part way up the filler tube. It has one of those clear tubes and a red floater in it that shows when the fuel is at the very top but I never fill it that much and that transparent hose is not very transparent anymore. I think this is the rubber window seal (or close) for my machine but I have to measure it to be sure. Mine still works but it is broken in a few spots and has shrunk a little. Another job to add to my list.
A glass shop should have the window seal.
Advance Autoparts has the bulb seal for best money.
I'm looking at this glass (supposedly fits my excavator): https://www.safeharborparts.com/20y-54-51812-excavator-front-lower-windshield/ So if I buy rubber gasket/seal strip and mount it to the frame (this is the closest I could find in a search: https://www.madisontractor.com/re249465-weather-strip-seal-door-window-198-quot-long.html ), then I just need to find the latches. I'm not sure what holds the bottom of the glass in place, as it's only pressing up against the rubber seal, but there's nothing latching it on the bottom. I wish I could see this up close on a PC60-7 that still have the kick window.
I don't think the seal in your link is the right one. There are several different rubber seals for windshields. Auto parts places or industrial supply places may have it in addition to glass shops. I think I'd use the non yellowing lexan for the kick window. It will flex without breaking and withstand light to moderate impact. Easy to drill holes in for latches too.
Okay, on the lexan. That would need to be cut to size. If I use the glass one, I could put a film on the outside to protect from flying rocks though. Alright.. I'm in the process of changing the other track and I ran into a problem... although I loosened the nut on the idler piston and about 2 oz of grease came out, I cannot get the piston to move in much. I put 2x4 blocks on the track and ran it backwards to wedge the blocks between idler and track, as I did with the other side, but the piston is resisting a lot. It moved back about 2" but has another 2" to go. When I remove the wood, the piston springs back out again. I tried to pry it with a 6' crowbar, but despite all that force, it only moved 1/8" and springs right back. I can't get the old track off because of that. Could it be that there's some chunk of dirt blocking the exit hole where the grease comes out? What else might prevent it from moving in the rest of the way? I'm going to try tightening the fitting, pumping some grease into it and then loosening it again to see if I manage to free it up. Oddly, this is the side with the newer track, the side that someone serviced most recently. I had no trouble with the other side that had a really old track on it so this is unexpected.
Track adjuster may need to be loosened off more. Could be something blocking it but not at the machine to be able to see. You could cut the lexan yourself with a jig saw or recipricating saw. Never looked but probably video's on how to cut lexan on the interweb. Just never use stuff like contact cleaner on lexan or it will be ruined.
I tested the Zerk fitting, by leaving the nut loose and pumping grease into it. Grease comes out the exit hole on the big nut. So I can state with certainty that the Zerk fitting is not jammed up. I suspect the piston is frozen in place and that little springiness observed is the recoil spring, which probably is the reason why the idler pushes back out when the blocks of wood are removed from between idler and track. I know I'm gonna regret this.. should have left the old track on there, as the machine was useable. Now the old track is stretched out and very loose, and I can't tighten it. Attempted to pump in grease and the grease gun bogs down and starts shooting grease out the emergency relief valve and also around the coupling to the Zerk. On the other side of the machine, the side that the piston moves easily, that had red grease in it. This other side had black grease in it. I wonder if someone put the wrong type of grease and caused it to seize? I'm at an impass here. Can't use the machine and can't get the old track off. I don't know what to do now.
Even with all this pressure, the idler won't budge. I've flooded the piston area with WD-40 in the hopes that it will seep in and loosen this, but it does not look good for the prospects of loosening the piston. I can't imagine how it got frozen, since it has the newer (but still old) track on it. Someone had to have changed this track fairly recently. Maybe they put the wrong kind of grease in there and it seized up?
Remove all track tension (remove your boards). Then fully remove the entire grease fitting cartridge. Then retry.
Might take some doing but it can be fixed. I wonder if pumping some solvent or oil in the adjuster and letting it sit under pressure might free it up if it's rusted or just stuck?
There is another thread on here right now about stuck adjusters. I’m on my cell phone right now so can’t find it for you.
Okay, that sounds like the logical next step. Remove that stopper plate, unscrew the 1-1/16" nut and put some penetrating oil in the cavity, put the nut back on and put the pressure on it?
Some grease guns will pump oil and maybe solvent but look at the other thread regarding stuck adjusters. It might give you some good ideas to try.
I searched and found about three threads. The news is bad. If two dozers pulling on the adjuster can't move it, then there's no chance I can move it with levers and such. Thousands more dollars. And that part appears to be held in (at least at one end) by a nut larger than 2" in diameter. My largest socket is 1-1/8". I don't know what else is holding that part in place or if it's that one nut. Then there's the fact that it weighs hundreds of pounds and is inside the track frame and inaccessible. This looks like a job requiring factory tools/shop to do. I don't even know if a field mechanic (even if I could afford one) could replace this part. If it doesn't free up tomorrow when I take the big grease nut and stopper off, I'm going to have to seriously consider cutting my losses and bailing on this. When I purchased this machine, I didn't anticipate that it would break right away and that it would be a relentless series of problems, each costing more than the last to repair. A $27,500 + $3400 mistake on my part. Poor judgement.
The idler and recoil come out the end of the track frame as one piece after you remove the track. That great big nut only holds the spring in compression.
You REALLY need to relax and not go off the deep end figuring it's all doom and gloom everytime something doesn't go as easily as you expect it too. You need to be smarter than the problem and sometimes it takes a little more time to find a solution. Look at all the problems you've already solved. Don't think you're the only one that runs into these kind if problems. I'm sure just about everyone on here has.
Much of the "doom and gloom" came from reading those threads about stuck adjusters. It seems folks have mainly had to replace them. Maybe I'll be the exception, I hope. I'm going to put Marvel Mystery Oil in to that grease compartment and see if that does anything. Might sit on it a week or two. Former owner told me "I've never had any problems with the machine." LOL
No seller of a used machine has ever had any problems with it! I think your biggest problem is that you're not as mechanically inclined as others on machinery and it frustrates you rather quickly. It's not your fault or a knock on you, it's just the way it is. There are many times when things aren't going right and you have to just step back for a day or 2 and refocus. I had a fuel screen blocked and even after being told where to look on another forum couldn't find it. It's easy for someone familiar and has cleaned it but for the life of me couldn't find it. Finally someone explained in great detail where it was and how to clean it. I felt so dumb. It was inside a longer hex fitting on the inlet line to the injection pump. The hex fitting had to come off and the screen could be removed with a hex key. I think I might have used a penetrating oil over Marvel Mystery oil but maybe it will help. Might be good to put the grease assembly back on, pump it up and let it sit under pressure. Maybe even hook a come-a-long or chain and boomer to the bucket or blade to put even more pressure on it. Just put moderate pressure though. Maybe the idler assembly could be twisted side a bit too?
I fully commiserate with that! This is my first excavator. About as much mechanics as I have done was rebuild the carburetor on my '58 Chevy Biscayne, and do brake jobs on all my vehicles. Just now, I removed the keeper plate and unscrewed the big nut with the Zerk fitting. It's about 3" of thread on that, so no risk of loosening too much to remove grease. Pumped in some Mystery Oil but it flushes back out, like there's no cavity to hold it. I can't get an angle on it because the passageway is long and narrow, limiting the angles to less than 10°. I sprayed oil in there many times anyway and then put the fitting back and pumped it with the grease gun. It doesn't seem like anything moved, but maybe the pressure of the grease will push the Mystery Oil further into the piston. Maybe it takes a few days, weeks or maybe even months, but hopefully it works it's way in. I hadn't thought about trying to pull out ward with a chain. That's a good idea. I'll give it a try.
Take all the dunnage out of the track and look inside the track frame for anything behind the idler rocks,dirt limbs ect. if its clear look at the other side and see if the spring is father out on the side you are working on. Bob
I had a Kubota 161-3 that the track piston got a little rusty ring around it. After taking it apart it just needed to be cleaned
I removed my boards earlier; I am trying to pull the idler out this time. I put metal bar that is over 1" in diameter through the hole in the idler and hooked a chain around the bucket and each end of the bar (the track is in the way). I gently pulled with the bucket, but only the bar bent. Some movement on the idler, but I suspect that's the recoil spring being pulled out. I can't get my head in there to look. Not enough space. I doubt it's external debris. With all the force I've applied, it would have crushed just about anything but steel blocks. Wood, small rocks, etc., probably would have been crushed. The fact that the idler resists movement in both directions indicates the piston itself is probably rusted in. Seems whomever owned this machine in the past must have used it in the swamp and underbrush. How else would the bottom side of the house be scraped up and dented? He probably repainted it to cover up the evidence. The guy is ignoring my text messages too. When I bought my Silverado pickup last year, and the radiator leaked, I told the former owner and he had the decency to go half on the repair cost. But this guy is being inconsiderate. Just doesn't give a crap. He's got his money and he's washed his hands of this.
Only problem is I don't have another machine to hoist that heavy part out of my machine. I watched a video on how to do this and they used a trackhoe to hoist the piston/spring/idler assembly. And first, I have to get it loosened enough to remove the track.
I can confirm that all movement I'm seeing is the recoil spring. I saw the nut move in 1/2" with the dunnage in the idler and it moved back to the nut stopper without the dunnage. BTW, I found a number on this track. Seems to be a Japanese part number. Maybe this is the original track and the track that busted was actually the one more recently replaced?
You bought a used machine as is and didn't take someone experienced with you to properly inspect it. That's on you not the seller. He sold the machine for a reason(s). You have to expect there will be things that need fixing or replacing and add a budget for these. May be 10% or may be 50% depending on hours and overall conditions. And there is always a possibility unexpected repairs might turn up. I know a guy who had an auto wrecking business. He offered a 90 day warranty on used parts including money refunds which was more than most other auto wreckers offered. If someone wanted to buy a complete car to try and fix up and they called him complaining something didn't work or was going to cost more than they thought to fix, his response was... Oh you wanted new, go to Ron Hodgson (the Chey dealer) and they can set you up! Read about Dmillers problems when he sold his Allis Chalmers track loader. He was very straight forward of the issues with the machine and helped the buyer at first. Then he kept getting calls and had to ignore them.
Still not seeing an issue other than your skill level and available tooling. Worst case scenario is to have to replace the adjuster cylinder, and, you already have a replacement track. Cut the track if you can't coax it off, slide the assembly out and assess it. Cylinders can be rebuilt for on the cheap, unless it is a total rust ball.
I was of the understanding that the track is off and he can't move the machine?
Those cylinders can't be done cheaply. It is all part of an assembly with the recoil spring. The grease entrance is at the back but the cylinder rod is at the front and connected to the idler yoke. The problem is dirt and debris forced into and past the wiper on the cylinder and packed in so tight the rod can't move. If you can't move it with a grease gun, it isn't likely you will move it with anything on the machine. Make sure all the debris is out of the track frame, especially in front of the idler support blocks. When you pull on the assembly you have to pull in line with the middle of the track frame or maybe a little lower. There are internal supports in the track frame that can catch on the coils of the spring. You will also need to have the track frame jacked up a little so the idler comes out straight and not being impeded by a bump in the track chains.
Well guys, I had to five in and throw in the towel. I did a turn in place to see if the old track was too loose and would fall off. It did not. So I took her down to the pond and started my dredging project. (I really need that kick glass--I got covered in mud when I dumped the sludge and it splashed all over everywhere). Spent an hour in the pond and got a good portion of it cleared of dead trees and brush and muck. I feel like an idiot, because for a while, I could not get the machine to drive out of the pond and even trying to pull it out using the bucket and stick wasn't working. The reason? I'd forgotten I'd put the blade down for stability and it was submerged and forgotten. Once I raised it, it drove right out no problem. While I was cleaning the muck and trash out of the track assemblies, I noticed something really stiff in there. I pulled it up and it turns out to be a threaded stainless rod, possibly 6-32 thread, jammed between the block and the frame. I snapped a photo of it before I attempted to pull it out with pliers (fat chance). It broke off just 1/4" above the surface. Can't reach it well with any tools. I'm not sure if I picked that up while in the pond, or if it's been jammed in there all along and is the reason for the jam. I have no idea how to get that rod out of there! In the meantime, I'm just going to use the machine as it is. I'm out of funds and I've got the track payments for the next six months.
When you get ready to remove that track block the machine up on that side and wrap a chain around the top of the track close to the idler. Hook the chain to your bucket and pull the track up and away from the idler and run the track ahead. Should come off then you can attack that rod. Bob
I think you found your problem.
My inability to move the track block with a chain to the bucket earlier gives me reason to pause on attempting to remove the track. Once I do that, the machine will never move again until that jam is removed and possibly other cause with the piston. Until I have a confident plan of attack to remove that metal rod from the block and frame, I think I'll just get some use out of the machine, pay down the monthly payments on the new tracks and when I have no further need for the machine, either attempt this repair at that time, or sell it.
I think if you can remove the rod you might be OK with the adjuster.
The thing is, I was able to move the yoke a bit, though the recoil springs pull it back again, but the piston never moved. No grease came out when I used tons of force pushing against the idler. So I think this rod stuck in the block is a separate issue. I was awake last night trying to think of ways to remove the rod. The most practical idea I came up with was to drip a very strong acid on the rod to dissolve it.
I don't think acid is the answer. If the idler can't move back I don't think much grease will come out. Maybe you could pound a thin wedge/chisel beside the rod and then be able to get the rod out? If you make a wedge use something like an old leaf spring or grind a chisel thinner. Another possible option might be to heat the rod red hot while there is pressure to push the idler forward. It could soften the rod and the idler might move enough the rod comes out. That rod got stuck in there somehow.
Thanks for the chisel idea. I may not be able to get the angle I need though with the track limiting my headroom. Realize that if I cut the track, I lose all use of the machine. Which means if I can't fix the piston seizure, I've got a 7 ton boat anchor on my property. I'll try to see if I can get a wood chisel in there, but there's no room to swing a hammer.
Steel chisel would be better or go to a welding supply and get a wedge for pipe fitting.
Here's the kind of wedge that I think may work. You'd have to be careful not to break it and may need 2 but they come to a knife edge so you shouldn't have to modify them. Pipefitter.com > Pipe Spacing Tools > Fabricators Spacing Wedge
That's a good tool to have for a lot of applications. Cheap enough, too. If they had one with a right angle bend, it might work without me having to cut the track off. Was watching a video on the fastest methods for dissolving rust. Muriatic acid came out on top, dissolving all the rust in 5 minutes. Meanwhile, I'm using the machine with the Mystery Oil in the cylinder + grease, in the hope that it will eventually work its way into the sliding surfaces of the adjuster piston. I think if I can move the piston again, that metal rod will roll right out once the idler is adjusted all the way out.
It looks like the problem is not that the cylinder is stuck, it’s that the adjuster block is stuck due to the rod wedged in there. Probably the best thing to do would be remove the track so you can get the stuck rod out and see what’s going on in there. Hopefully removing that rod frees everything up, if it doesn’t you’ll need the track off anyway to fix it.
Is it likely that the lateral pressure caused by the block being off center because of the metal rod, has cause the piston to become frozen due to lateral pressure in a direction the piston was not designed to move? I must point out that the yoke does move-even with that rod in there, if I pull on the idler--just that it springs back again due to the spring it's attached to. The piston itself appears to be frozen, but if it is frozen due to lateral sideways pressure from that thin metal rod (and I'm not sure if that rod got in there on Friday when I was mucking out my pond, as a lot of other trash ended up in the track frame, or was there from the former owner), then removing the rod would get it working again. I'm just not sure when that rod got stuck in there. I was in the pond again today dredging. I think I'm pretty much done with that project now. I drove the machine back and spent an hour cleaning the undercarriage again. Then I pulled the covers off the final drives and cleaned out the muck that was in there. Hosed it down until the water was clean. Then sprayed WD40 and finally motor oil all over the interior to inhibit corrosion. Put the panels back on. Cleaned up the rest of the machine and greased everything that had been in water. Pulling that track off will be a last resort thing. I'm going to finish as many projects as possible and then when I'm at a point where not having a functional excavator doesn't cause much of a problem, I'll pull the track. I'm not convinced the rod is the cause of the jammed cylinder. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the odds are low and that I'll be into a serious amount of expense and renting a second excavator just to haul that assembly out and put it onto my truck to take somewhere to be rebuilt. That can happen during winter.
No use speculating on any of this any more. You have work to do, so do it. You can worry about when you have to fix it.
I guarantee you that the adjuster is stuck because of that metal rod in there. If you can easily remove that rod is clearly binding up. you have the new track and have paid for it. Cut that thing off and move on.
Can you get a cutting torch in there? 10 seconds with a torch would do it.
He said the rod is stainless so a torch may not be the answer. If it was mine I'd try to get the rod out before it caused a bigger problem. He can now move the machine to a good position to work on it. Would hate to have the machine stuck in the mud because the track came off or something.
I'm not 100% certain that rod was there before I went mucking in the pond Friday. Each time I come out of the pond, I find trash debris of all sorts jammed into the space between idler and frame. The rod may have been in there for a long time, or maybe it just got jammed in there on Friday. I don't know. But I'm not willing to gamble with a presently functional enough machine until I get my major projects done this summer. The reason I wouldn't bet the farm on that rod being the problem is because the yoke does move a little when I pull or push on the idler with tons of force (it's pushing against the recoil spring), but attempting to move the piston itself via grease gun results in no movement at all. I do hope I'm wrong though! I would love it if it turns out that removing that rod restored adjuster function. For now, I don't feel like cutting a perfectly good track off and possibly finding that even after removing the rod, I still have a stuck piston. That would pretty much be the end of using that machine. Before that happens, I'm going to get some work down. The track hasn't fallen off. And who knows? A few weeks of driving it around may eventually let the penetrating oil do its thing in there.
It's all connected together. I think the logical thing to do is get the rod out and see if that is/was the problem before thinking it's something else. Have you even tried to get the rod out or just figured it's too difficult? If you're digging and pulling all the debris into the track frames and idler, you should position the machine differently so this doesn't happen or don't pull material in so close to the machine.
I drove the machine into the swamp the other day as part of a dredging operation. Once submerged, I have no idea what trash is getting ingested by the tracks. I agree that getting the rod out first would be the first order of troubleshooting. I have tried to get in that space with a tool, but the track above it limits my headroom to about 7". Not enough room to swing a hammer on a chisel. The track will have to come off before I can attack that rod. I'm sure most folks know this already, but when you've submerged the machine in a muddy bog, it's imperative to remove the covers on the final drives and clean the muck out. Hose everything down and spray oil on all of the surfaces afterwards. I did that yesterday. The quantity of muck that was in there was nothing short of amazing.
I don't think most would submerge their machines in a swamp. They'd use swamp mats or something similar to keep the machine out of the muck as much as possible.
I've watched quite a few Youtube videos by excavator operators, and I could not believe the places they exposed their machines too. I've also seen excavators that sunk in so deep the engine could not be run. I've never seen "swamp mats" before. What do they look like?
Here's a couple video's showing swamp mats. How to use swamp mats - YouTube Excavator Venturing Out Onto Quicksand - YouTube
Oh those look expensive, plus you need a thumb to lift them easily. I watch a lot of Letsdig18's videos. He's got a lot of interesting stuff going on. I was doing stuff like this
If you like letsdigit18, you will like dirt perfect too. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvn8y5Gf090ljxf9xbG5K3w
Subscribed! Thanks! I drove the excavator around my lot yesterday and today I checked the yoke/frame assembly to get a better idea of how to remove that rod and... it is gone! The rod dislodged itself and came out. The yoke is firmly against the wall of the frame now, no gap. So I thought "great! maybe I can move the adjust now!" So I raised that track off the ground, ran it back and forth, then loosened the big nut, let out some grease and checked to see if the track adjuster moved. Nope. Put a 2x4 in the track and ran it backwards, but again, it did not move. Tightened the nut, pumped some more grease in, but only took an ounce before the gun went into pressure relief. Adjuster did not move. My conclusion: the adjuster is still stuck and the metal rod was a secondary unrelated problem which cleared itself.
If you don't want to cut the track, and can't walk the track off otherwise, unbolt the sprocket, and use a drift from inboard, while repositioning the track, and drive off the sprocket. The sprocket is a snug slip fit. Then remove the track and slide out the whole assembly. #15 is apparently stuck in #1. Once free of the machine, some rotating in the bore, along will pulling and creativity, you should be able to separate #15.
At this point, not likely.
I suppose if I can't pull free the idler with the track on (and loose with lots of slack), there's little point in removing the track, since the block and piston would be frozen and requiring resources that I don't have to unstick it. I need to find a 3" diameter solid iron bar to put through the idler wheel hole that I can chain the bucket to for pulling. my 1-1/4" dia bar just bends when I do this. If I were able to unstuck it with the loose track in place, then I can remove the track and know the adjuster will move.
The track will take itself off when it's ready. The assembly will be easy to remove at that point. Worry about getting the work you have planned for the machine done, then work on the machine. .
I was fiddling with it again today. This after flooding it two days ago with WD-40 via a pump bottle sprayer from Agway. Lifted the machine again, put the iron bar through the hole in the idler wheel, chained it to the bucket and pulled. Again, only the recoil spring stretched a bit. Then it occurred to me, what's keeping the whole assembly from sliding out even just until the track is pulled tight? That big nut is said to hold the spring in place under tension. But there must be a bolt somewhere that holds that whole assembly to the frame, because it's solidly affixed and won't budge in the slightest. Isn't that entire adjuster, piston, yoke and idler supposed to slide out of the track frame? Why doesn't it slide forward a bit when I pull on the idler with a very loose track? Only the spring expands. Nothing else moves! I have my neighbor's pressure washer on loan. Tomorrow, I wash down the machine.
That assembly fits into a bulk head in front of the adjuster fitting. The track is the only thing that holds the whole assembly in the track frame. The track frame is likely packed tight with dirt is all. You might be able to pick up that side and spray out enough stuff to see the bottom of the spring.
I will try pressure washing again that track assembly. It seems pretty clean now. If only I could use WD40 instead of water in a pressure washer! If I had 50 gallons of WD40 in a large tub, could submerge the whole thing for a few weeks and let the WD40 work its way in. If the rain isn't too hard, I'll try pressure washing from the underside of the track frame as well as from the opening near the idler. When it dries, I'll load up a gallon of WD40 in the pressurized sprayer and flood the whole thing again with WD40. It's GOT to find it's way in eventually!
After pressure washing again, I gave a closer look at the whole assembly. I circled what I suspect to be causing the jam. Notice there's a small dent, about 2mm deep in the frame. If this is preventing the assembly from being slid out, it is also preventing the adjuster from moving. Now the question is how to pull out this dent. The metal is at least 6mm thick.
It is highly doubtful a 2mm dent is the cause. If you do figure out through further investigation that it is actually pinching the widest part of the yoke, you can weld a stud on it, use some big washers for spacers on each side and put a heavy bar across with a hole in it over the stud. Then heat up the area in question, tighten up the nut and pull the dent out.
Excellent suggestion. I have a flux core welder, 125 amp. Think that might be adequate, or should I buy a better welder? I've done up a quick 3D representation of what I think you are describing here. Is this the correct idea? I have an air/acetylene torch to heat up the area of the dent. Would that be hot enough, or do I need oxyacetylene?
Yes. Make sure that the washers don't affect the area you want to pull out, make sure your bridge is long enough, be sure to have a fire extinguisher on hand when you start heating things up. Most of all don't do any of this unless you're absolutely certain use a feeler gauge or some other thing to determine that it's actually bound up there otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.
I've seen plenty more and deeper dents than that. There is a lot of room around that spring. No way that that dimple is causing your problem.
Yes there's no way that that would be holding the spring there would only be an outside chance it would be right lined up with the yoke. If you have to eliminate it for your own mental health, take a piece of welding wire and reach in there in the area of the dent and verify there's clearance. My suspicion is the wire will pass up and down in that area just fine.
Is there maybe a way to put a bar in the hole on the side of the track frame to pound on the yoke or other solid part of the assembly? Thinking if you have pressure on it and the bucket also pulling, a couple good whacks might get it to move. There are no remnants of the rod still stuck in the yoke?
It looks like there's no remnants of the rod left, because the space between the yoke and frame has decreased to contact. When the rod was stuck in that gap, there was at least 2mm gap between yoke and frame. Yes, frankly, I'm not sure that the small dent is the problem either. But then, if the adjuster is not welded or bolted in there, it should come out with all the force I have been applying to it. Just by tapping on it, I can tell the metal is much thicker toward the front of the dent and the spot where the dent is is hollow. If the adjuster alone were seized up, at least the adjuster assembly should slide forward, but the fact that it does not even budge suggests something holding the entire assembly in place. The track has original Japanese part number on it (I posted a picture of it earlier in this discussion) making me suspect that this track has never been changed since the manufacture of the machine. If the machine is 20 years old, then the adjuster hasn't been touched in all that time. I'm studying the drawings on page 398 of the shop manual, but I don't see what could be holding the other end of the spring in place so tightly. The yoke can move when force is applied, but the back end of the spring is solidly in place, as if someone welded it to the frame. Then there's the fact that I've flooded the entire assembly with WD40, over a gallon of the stuff was used in the past week with multiple applications via a pump sprayer.
My WAG a broken spring. Bob
I would think that if the spring were broken, the assembly would not be resisting like a spring was holding it back.
Since you pulled the spring forward, the socketed end that sits in the track frame bulkhead is now out of place and maybe a coil has dropped into a cross piece in the track frame. Put the thing to work and don't worry about it.
Wouldn't the big nut and Zerk assembly have moved back if that were the case? They are right where they've always been. The machine will work, I just have to be careful turning so as not to have the track come off. That's my plan for now. But I've got the extra track sitting here.
I'm thinking of loosening the big giant nut a little, just to see if that will let the track tighten a bit. It's very loose and hanging down at present.
With the track loose like that, I wouldn't think it would be hard to remove in one piece. With the track off you could better see what's going on with the idler/track adjuster.
Yeah, but once I yank that track off, there may be no putting it back on, and if I can't fix my problem, I'll have a useless machine on my hands. I'm saving that last resort for after I get some work done with it. AMS will sell me a new adjuster for $995 + tax (shipping incl).
Get your work done don't throw the track and then deal with it. The rains are coming get your work done and then bring it somewhere nice to work on. Just pick the machine up and use bucket turns make sure the track is clear of the ground before you pivot. Don't be in a hurry because you can strip it off on a rock if you're not careful.
Finish what you can relatively safely. I don't think I'd be driving in swamps and mud with the track loose like that. If the track came off could really ruin your day.
Fortunately, I'm done with the swamp work. It's unfortunate that I have this second track that I can't use, and that I stretched out the other track that would otherwise be serviceable, in my attempts to loosen the adjuster. But yeah, my goal is to get some major work done. I think this repair is going to require special equipment that I don't have. That will mean getting outside help.
Once the track is off you should be able to get a better idea of what's wrong. I think if you would have had someone experienced look at it in the beginning, it would have been fixed a while ago.
Where do I find such a person in western CT though? I wish I could just call a local dealer downtown, but there's no Komatsu dealer anywhere near me.
Any mobile heavy equipment mechanic would know what to do.
When I search on that term, I find a lot of job listings, but no one offering the service in my area. I do find mobile mechanics that will work on cars and trucks. That's about it though.
Call the places with the job listings!!! They must have other employee's and they're busy enough to need more.
It was an interesting day today. First, I drove the excavator to the east side of my property to clear the jungle that started encroaching on the house. I had to make my way between numerous large red oak trees, lots of 90° turns. Made it through all of them without the old loose track falling off. Drove straight ahead in the cleared area and slowly built a path I could drive over by moving lots of rocks and creating a flat enough path so the machine could drive without tipping over. Got to a an area when I drove a little further and heard something go pop under the left (new) track. Got off the machine had a look.. the NEW track had come off the sprocket and idler! And it was tight before I left the back yard. Spent the next hour with a comealong and a grease gun and got the track back on and tightened again. Baffling that the tight track fell off, while the loose and sagging track did not. While I was returning the comealong to my truck parked on the road, my neighbor, whom I'd met at the marina when I rented a boat two days earlier, noticed I had a track problem and so I mentioned the other track being stuck. He's into heavy machinery and owns a number of large machines himself, so he said to bring the machine over to the barn where he has the tools to deal with this. We'd been neighbors for decades but had never met before, until the boat rental when we had a chance to talk and he complimented me on my excavator. So it looks like I may get the help I need with this, finally. After these three loads of fill come in, I'll take him up on his offer.
You get that idler figured out?
No, not yet. I've taken some decent pictures from the underside, and there's no broken spring hung on anything. Nothing to indicate a jam. So I'm just periodically shooting oil into the area and using the machine to get work projects done. In September, I'll take up my neighbor's offer to help me fix the machine. I just need to drive it next door to his barn, where he has the tools and equipment to repair heavy machinery. Meanwhile, enjoy a boring video of my machine spreading fill in the back yard...
I drove the excavator a short distance to the west side of my property today and again the NEW track, the one that was tight as a banjo string, came off again. Ironically, the old track that has a Japanese part number and may be as old as the machine itself, which got stretched out from my attempts to loosen the stuck adjuster, never falls off, despite flopping around due to the looseness. Even more strange was the fact that when I attempted to pump grease into the adjuster after loosening the track to move it back onto the idler, I could not find the Zerk fitting. It's GONE! I ended up removing the entire assembly with the long bolt, check valve and Zerk fitting from the stuck adjuster and moving it to the working adjuster, so that I could tighten the track again after putting it back on for the second time. What happened to that Zerk is a mystery. I pulled the old part and it's not broken. The female threads are still there. Somehow, the Zerk unscrewed itself and vanished. Baffled! Five minutes of moving the machine and 2 hours of trying to get that track back on and figure out work around to the missing Zerk. The new tracks must be more stretchy or have shallower track for the idler, for it seems to easily come off, no matter how tight I make the adjuster.
Today was a breakthrough. As I'd mentioned, I had to take the Zerk fitting from the stuck adjuster and move that whole plug assembly to the good side because the Zerk had mysteriously vanished (I have a theory that pressure washing may have caused it to unscrew). Anyway, I drove the machine today, just a few feet and the other (stuck side, old track) fell off due to no grease and the adjuster having moved about 1/2" back. Managed to get it to flat enough area, put blocks under it and pulled the front of the track off the idler. Cleaned out the tracks with high pressure water and put a chain through the hole in the idler wheel, attached other end to bucket and was able to slide the assembly out (but I stopped short of having it fall out) and confirmed that the assembly can be replaced. I thought maybe I could open the grease fitting and use a 6' crowbar to pry between the piston and yoke, but they won't budge. I also tried moving the yoke out of the frame and using crowbar to try and rotate the piston (not sure if a working piston allows rotation) hoping I could break it free. No luck there. I'm probably going to have to shell out the money for a new assembly. In the meantime, I've shot more penetrating oil into the piston seal area and coated everything with oil.
By the way, I have a warning light on the console, the one with the grease gun icon. The former owner disabled the automatic greasing system and manually greases the machine. But apparently there must be some timer that expects communication from the (now disconnected) automatic greasing system. I am wondering how do I reset that?
Now I really got my self into trouble. Decided to slide the whole assembly out today. Put it on the back of my truck using bucket and chain. Tried putting a borrowed Zerk fitting on this part with the missing fitting and pumping grease, but the plunger didn't budge at all. I've been flooding this with penetrating oil for the past 3 weeks. So now it's on my truck. Who in the Danbury CT area works on rebuilding this?
Place spring and ears back in frame and rotate the idler assembly, and rod around and around. That usually breaks any mild friction. Then retry.
Before I removed this assembly today, I stuck a 6' long crowbar in between the yoke and idler and tried to turn the rod to break it free, but it would not budge!
You will have to get creative with that try what heymccall said but with a bigger pry bar. Also try putting the grease fitting back in and pump as much pressure in to it as you can and at the same time push the idler and spring assembly apart with a jack or a porta power if you don't have a porta power borrow rent or buy one. Also you might want to repair the top frame rail before you reassemble everything
Sent you a private message.
I looked up Porta Power and it appears to be a hydraulic ram of sorts. But the question is how to securely attach it to the adjuster. It doesn't make sense to me, at least to how I'm visualizing the process. I got a 6 foot long crowbar in that thing earlier. The only thing I haven't tried is chaining the end of it to the bucket and using that much force. But it's too late now. The assembly fell out when I pulled it out of the track and I frankly don't know how I'm going to lift it back into place without another machine. I will have to build a gantry out of wood and chain the back end of it up to line it with the track. But that's for after the thing is repaired and working. I also need a 90° Zerk fitting that has the Japanese thread pitch.. the ones on Amazon are SAE threads 28 tpi. I borrowed a straight Zerk off the boom arm lubricator for ten minutes while I experimented with filling the thing with grease. No joy. How would I fix those rails? It seems that the metal has worn away from friction in that area.
Dropped off the assembly at a heavy equipment repair shop in Danbury that was recommended by a member here. They're not sure if they can get the seal kit for this, but are going to research it and let me know next week. With luck, I may have a working adjuster soon. I hope.
Seals are readily available $50 for U cup, later serial number $30 for earlier.
Got a call today from the heavy equipment repair shop. They said it's really stuck and they were looking for alternatives.. something about a replacement adjuster assembly for $1300. They said repairing this one could easily cost that much. I told them to give it a try and that I read on the forums that others have repaired cylinders for about $500. Will wait to see what they come back with.
Look for a used one.
Where would I look? That sounds like a long shot.
This guy is a master at finding the oddball parts that were created out of smoke and broken promises. I'm not sure he is still in business but if so tell him that John the Komatsu guy gave you his number. Dean 360 893-1140 The other guy that is really good is Martin Kaldahl. He is the used parts guy at Modern Machinery in Montana. Email works best for him. [email protected]
A mechanic loves nothing more than being told that....just curious Mark, in the "other forums" that you've read that, was the whole assembly impossibly stuck together and not possible to get it apart to rebuild it? It's been said here in this thread and several other posts on this site, NOTHING ABOUT EQUIPMENT IS CHEAP TO REPAIR.
Somewhere on this site was another thread where I read that someone rebuilt a cylinder for that cost. I'm on a fixed income and I put my cash savings into this machine, with the understanding that if I go easy on it with light use, it would last a couple of years with no major issues. That theory broke down on day four of ownership. Then 13 days after that, my first big expense for replacement tracks. Now this. I went into debt for the tracks; I've got payments near $600 a month now, which is most of my ss income. That leaves me nothing to live on. What a huge mistake on my part. I was going to buy gold, but I was having difficulty finding a gold dealer that would transact in cash, so I thought heavy machinery would also be a good investment that holds value in a hyper inflationary spiral. Hence, my decision.
Thanks for the additional contacts. Montana's a bit far--I'm thinking shipping cost is going to eat much of the savings of buying used--maybe the other guy knows some resources closer to Connecticut.
Where did you get the idea that heavy machinery is a good investment? I suspect you came up with this theory to justify purchasing the excavator but never really did any research to see if it was was true or not. You just thought you could do so many things with an excavator it clouded your mind. It happens to everybody. Some people find really good deals and flip equipment for a profit. Sometimes they get stuck with a machine for years because nobody is interested at the price they are asking. Machinery is always a gamble if you expect to recoup your money after finishing your projects. I just bought an older grader(86) for 15K and I think that is about the bottom dollar for a decent running and working older grader based on prices I have seen them listed for. I think I could recoup all or most of the money I paid if I had to sell it because of low finances or an emergency but really don't know for sure. I also don't know if I'll have any major issues with it. It's a gamble I'm willing to take and can potentially help me make more money at my MX and oval race tracks. I don't think I'll be able to go back to a regular job with my cancer diagnosis so I'm hoping to increase users at my tracks. I can work at my own pace and having a grader, I think, will let me do some things faster and help me to increase my revenue. One thing I'll be able to do is clear snow so everything dries up faster in the spring. If anyone wants to have winter events, either sleds or studded bikes I'll be able to clear snow in a hurry for parking and/or riding the tracks. I can do a bunch of drainage work too so the MX track isn't so wet in the spring.
As a fellow cancer survivor (still battling on my own) I can fully commiserate with your situation. I'll readily admit that I went off half cocked. I'd only been thinking about and looking at machines for sale for about a year and a half and didn't really do much research other than compare ads and machines and pricing. Seemed most folks wanted 45 to 60 grand for a mini ex, which was out of my range, so when a midi ex popped up that looked in good shape and sounds good for asking price of 30 grand, I thought I've give it a shot. Only managed to get the seller down to 27.5 with cash offer, but he delivered to my property at no extra cost, so I figured all good. I have an unfinished piece of property that I've started construction on 55 years ago. House is mainly complete, but the land is wild still. Have a swamp in the back. Have been trucking fill for two years and hand shoveling hundreds of yards of fill to raise the front yard 3' off the road level and build a fence. Have to clear the jungle to the east which is encroaching on the house with vines and other nasties. Will soon have to dig a 75' trench to replace failing underground piping from the well to the house. Eventually need to dig up and redo septic fields. If I ever find a deal on a quiet diesel generator again, I'll have the tools to move it from the truck to the pad. Digging out tree stumps and general landscaping projects galore need doing. I look at it as an education. At my advanced age, I'm purposely taking on new skills, studying foreign language, learning to play the saxophone, improving my piano skills, learned how to fly a drone recently, and now learning to use heavy machinery. All of this helps to hold off dementia by keeping the brain active creating new neuro pathways. I can grasp that such a machine has a limited buyer market. But still, I've been told that a used machine has pretty much flattened out on pricing (it loses most of it's resale from new to used, but once used, the value doesn't drop as much) and so I would expect that with patience and the right buyer, I could eventually sell it. I'm thinking of asking for payment in the form of 20 oz of gold bullion when I do sell it.
I bought my 1998 D39-P1 dozer at a decent price when we were in a depression and companies were selling off equipment. Used it for a couple of years, ran out of work for it so I sold it to my brother in law to use on his ranch. Didn't want to make much on the sale but I did wind up about +$2k for my investment. Unless you are a professional flipping equipment, don't go there.
Not a pro, just a panicking old man watching the cash in his drawer in danger of becoming worthless, so in a pinch, I thought of buying the machine (also at the constant pressure from my wife who watches me suffer out in the sun all day with shovel and wheelbarrow) as a hedge against inflation. Knowing what I know now, I would have brought wrenches and a grease gun with me to make sure the adjusters worked, and would know where the hydraulic lines go and what the look for in terms of aging. Honestly, I think the machine is otherwise in good shape and once I solve the track adjuster and put on the new track, it should be ready to do some work again. Selling is a few years down the road. I'll either ask for cash or gold bullion then.
Don't get down hearted about it, all older machines will have some problems. It can be a steep learning curve buying your first machine. You got unlucky with with two expensive repairs so soon but here's hoping for smooth running from now on
I'm hoping the law of averages holds true and that after this is fixed, my problems with this machine will abate for a while. It needs some TLC (a new seat upholstery, new kick window, weather stripping, and a rubber floor mat would be nice), but I believe the core mechanicals are in order, once this track mechanism is fixed.
Sometimes there's things you wouldn't even think to check on a used machine. I think Hyd. track adjusters could be one of those things if the tracks look tight when you first look at a machine. You wouldn't expect them to be jammed up, especially on a rubber track machine. On a steel track machine you'd notice right away if the tracks were excessively loose and wonder why the seller didn't tighten them. Hopefully after the track adjusters are repaired, it will just be minor cosmetic things like the seat, etc. You may get most of your money back if everything is fixed up on the machine. I want to get a new seat for the grader and perhaps a new glass for one of the doors. A good seat is essential for me with my back problems but also makes a big difference when selling a machine. A seat that needs a new cover and/or foam sticks out like a sore thumb and is one of the 1st things a potential buyer will notice. I left my number with the place that specializes in graders incase they get a good used glass. They buy machines for parts. A used glass is $375 and new is $725. There's no difference if the used isn't cracked. I'm trying to do a kind of redneck fix on a cracked exhaust manifold because a couple good mechanics have said it's highly likely some of the bolts will break trying to remove them. If that happened could be a real pain to repair everything. I'm going to form some sheet metal to match the shape of the manifold and use some high temp furnace cement and wire to hold it in place and then wrap it tightly with high temp exhaust wrap. It might not look pretty but if it stops or greatly reduces the leak, I'll be happy. I figure the exhaust wrap will hold the sheet metal in place if the furnace cement fails. I thought about trying to weld it in place but if it didn't work would be forced to remove the manifold.
Depending on whether it's a crack in the manifold, or a bad gasket where it fits against the block, couldn't you do a V-groove weld to fix it if it's simply cracked? Glass for these machines is hard to find. I'm still on the lookout for a lower kick window for mine. Need that to keep the rain/snow out of the cab. Based on my experience with this machine, if I had known what I know now, I could have done a much more thorough inspection before purchase. I was going on some assumptions, such as believing that rubber tracks last a long time and I wouldn't have the machine long enough to wear one out or have it fail. But I now know to check the swing bearing for excessive play, how to look over the hydraulics, under the house for signs of rust, track adjuster function, etc. Other things I need to do is put shims in the joints around the link coupling pins for the bucket, as these have a lot of lateral play in them. I'm still wondering how to grease the joints at the bucket which have no Zerk fittings. There is evidence of grease at those areas, but no means to attack a grease gun to at least two points near the bucket. The guy that's working on my track adjuster said he'll be back to it on Monday. I'm hoping he's willing to give it a good effort and not just tell me I need a new assembly for thousands of dollars.
If I could get the manifold off I'd attempt welding it. On the machine would be extremely difficult as the crack is on the side and bottom. Trying to do an overhead weld on it would be very difficult for the most experienced welder. I've heard of people Mig welding cast but I don't want to experiment with the manifold on the machine. If I can slow the leak I'll be happy.
Oh definitely, it's dangerous to crawl under and weld over head like that. I see your point. What about one of the liquid metal fillers? Can you experiment with those?
Dangerous? It's an excavator. Lift the offending end high and SAFELY block it up. Then, kneel or sit in your favorite lawn chair. Shirley there's a local welder capable of building that up?
Sure, just tip the whole machine over to work on it. Sounds good to me.
Heymccal, don’t waste your time with this guy any more. He is more interested in people feeling sorry for him than actually listening and fixing a problem.
I wouldn't say it's dangerous just not the greatest chance of success. Cast iron can be a crap shot to weld and an exhaust manifold crack is about the most difficult to weld successfully, especially when it's still on the machine. The crack is also full of diesel soot and additional carbon from the exhaust. Lots of extreme heat and cold cycles too. The starter and additional wiring is directly under the manifold as well. I could cover that but it's still even more of a crap shoot to try and repair on the machine. Off the machine I would attempt to weld it where I could properly prep it and could position it for the best chance of success. I only have a stick welder and don't want to risk making it worse where I have no choice but to try and remove it without breaking bolts. 2 experienced mechanics have both thought broken bolts are likely. If I can slow the leak I'll be happy. It will cost me about $70 so if it doesn't work is not the end of the world.
I thought we were talking about where the idler slides back and forth?
That manifold looks expensive
The manifold is on a grader with a 6 cylinder 6CT 8.3 not on the PC60-7 excavator. I'm also in Canada so the cost would be higher but that's not the issue. If some of the bolts break that hold it on can be be a major PIA to have to repair. Sorry if I confused this thread. I think I did a pretty good job with a fix but will have to see how long it lasts.
I've just been informed by the repair shop that it's a no-go on this adjuster repair. 5 ton press and a porta power were tried and they could not get it to budge. Said the unit is rusted and likely it would be junk inside if they did manage to pull it apart. So I need to look for another unit. The place I talked to last month with the $995 price didn't return my calls this week, so I need to see if I can find a used but working adjuster somewhere, hopefully in the northeast.
I'm still hunting for weatherstrip like this. What website is this that sells this? What is the link, please?
This stuff is all over Amazon And available at auto parts stores
Thank you. I found it by typing in the exact description in Amazon's site. Now shopping for plexiglass. Hard to find in size 36x36! It's raining now, but later I'll measure the exact dimensions and find out if I can get by with 24x36, which is available. 1/4" or 3/16" thickness is another choice. Have to measure the grooves in the rubber feet at the bottom to see what fits. Any recommendations for cutting this stuff without melting it?
Mcmaster carr
Lexan is better than plexiglass and make sure to get the type that doesn't yellow over time. Unless you're doing demolition or have a bunch of debris hitting the window, safety glass is much better as it won't scratch anywhere near what lexan or plexiglass will. You don't need tempered glass just standard safety glass that is easy for a glass shop to cut.
The price on that 36x36 is much better than Amazon's for a smaller piece. WRT glass shops, I wonder if they can drill the holes for the latches as well in safety glass? They would need a water jet cutter to do that, I suspect. Thanks for the tips, guys!
No glass place will be able to drill the holes in the safety glass, at least none I've ever gone to have been able to do it. I would go with lexan or the poly carbonate. Both easy to drill be just as good as the glass for what you're doing
If I looked up right part number, OEM is $200 UsD.
I didn't realize you needed holes drilled in the window. There are some specialty shops that can drill holes in safety glass. I think they have to use a diamond drill. If the OEM is safety glass with the holes in it, isn't too bad of a price. If you want to cut lexan you need to use a lube it when cutting. There's probably a video on the net showing how.
I cut Lexan (polycarbonate) with a cutoff wheel in my 4.5" grinder. Then, a flapper wheel on the grinder for dressing. The secret is to go slow. Too fast or too aggressive will clog the cutoff wheel. I've also used a circular saw with a carbide blade, usually on the big windows.
And, to one if the above posts, NO, you cannot drill holes into tempered glass. They must be drill prior to tempering, BUT, the point is moot as you will not find that shape of tempered window generically without the holes.
Standard safety glass can be drilled with special tooling but tempered glass is made with the holes premade. I prefer standard safety glass because if it breaks it doesn't shatter into a zillion pieces. It just cracks and is less expensive to replace. The curved tempered glass for equipment is usually very pricey especially if it also has holes in it.
I've had glass drilled multiple times and then tempered for installation in pickup canopies. It's not a big deal. I don't recall any curved glass for any machine being drilled. As far as I know, most of the curved glass I've dealt with was polycarbonate.
I seem to recall quite a few years I was in a tractor dealer and a customer was needing a new tempered glass window that was curved with a hole in it. It was over $1000 if I remember right. Looking online it appears holes can be put in tempered glass when it's in the annealed state before it's hardened. Standard safety glass like car windshields with the plastic inner layer is not too difficult for glass companies to drill.
Are you referring to the Komatsu replacement part? If I could get it for $200, I would. But when I asked a few parts dealers if they had this glass, I got no responses.
This thread is 19 pages long. Please relist full model and serial number.
It's a Komatsu PC60-7, s/n 45503.
20Y-54-36112 #33 From here https://en.av-gk.ru/catalog/komatsu/pc60-7c/210070/
And you can price thru andersonequip.com Without a login, IIRC.
When I click through the part (item 33), it takes me to a page listing this glass, but the list of compatible machines does not include PC60. There's even an Amazon link. I'm asking over there, but typically they never answer questions. They list PC200 and several other models. Without exact dimensions, I can't tell if this will fit my machine. I'm also looking for the latches that fit that glass. The links lead to "unavailable".
I just use that site for part number lookup. I use andersonequip.com for pricing and availability.
$200 at supercede number 20Y-54-A5150
This site shows new number aftermarket, but also doesn't list pc60, BUT, they do give dimension. https://www.safeharborparts.com/20y-54-a5150-excavator-front-lower-windshield/
Yeah, I have contacted Safe Harbor Parts multiple times but they don't respond. The dimensions don't look right. Or they got height/width swapped. Also it's listed "out of stock." I did a quick tapemeasure out there and I came up with 520mm H x 838mm W.
I took my chance and ordered the glass through a seller on Amazon . I also ordered what looks to be the correct latches at Safe Harbor. I think there is left and right hand, so I ordered one of each. The listings are ambiguous about that though. Weatherstripping should arrive today.. the glass on Wed or Frid.
Alas, I have a new kick window and latches. $124 for the glass, and $139 for the latches. Now she's ready for the winter.
Feeling a bit of frustration with these rubber tracks. Has one come off the sprocket while driving over ground with roots and some rocks sticking up a couple of inches. Spent 90 minutes with chains and winches to get that track back on. Started to move the machine to my work area when the OTHER track came completely off. Ugh. It was starting to rain, so I will have to tackle this tomorrow. The side that fell off now is the one with the new track adjuster. I was unable to release it by loosening the hex bolt as was the case with the original adjuster on the other side of the machine. It looks like the fitting has to be completely removed in order to release the pressure. On the old style adjuster, that would be very dangerous. On the new one, apparently that's the required method. A real pain because the fitting must be completely removed. I need to put the car up on blocks to deal with this mess. That's for tomorrow.
No the fitting does not have to be completely removed unless you have something real wrong. You better slow down and start looking closely at how the front idler is sitting in the track frame and maker sure there is nothing stuck in there that would hold the idler out.
Well there's no ridge in the bolt for the grease to come out, like in the original adjuster. As it turns out, I had to take the nut completely out. Then the grease came out and I was able to push the idler in. What a pain though compared to the Komatsu adjuster! That one is easy--just a quarter turn and it releases the grease and the track loosens right away. This new adjuster isn't nearly as easy to use.
All the Komatsu track adjusters are the same. They have a cone nose that seats into a beveled hole. Turning the component out any opens that hole and lets the grease flow out the side of the adjuster cylinder. I can't say what the problem is with what you got unless you post a photo of it.
This is an after market track adjuster that North American Equipment sold me. Unlike my Komatsu adjuster, which has a hole drilled in the tapered bolt to pass grease, this one is solid. No ridge to let grease through. I've attached photo of when it was still strapped to my truck bed.
That thing is crap and a great way to get hurt. I'm done with this thread.