I got issues, maybe, with my aux outs on the 2012 svl 90-2 CTL. I put pressure gauge, with no flow load, on the quick connects and one side goes from 0 to 3000 the other goes from 0 to 3000 but does not return to 0 but rather 1500 it is consistent ... Does this indicate a problem ... should I be noticing flow issues in one direction but not the other ... what say somebody
No, you should be fine. Pressure gauge deadheads aux, so when valve closes Pressure bleeds off slow. Side that does go to 0 likely leaks at Pressure release in coupler cartridge.
I have many attachments using the aux hydraulics ... its very frustrating ... I need the pressure to go to 0 ... when they don't ... its a problem removing hoses and messy ... I am not sure what it is suppose to do ... I have tried different things ... with the machine .. shutting it off ... lets one side go to 0 but not the other side... is there a procedure I am missing ... oil on everything is getting old...
Thats not a flow Test thats a pressure Test. For a Flow test you need a Flow Meter
I realize that... I am looking for zero pressure .. the flow is fine ... I just thought it was odd to not have it return to zero like the other side , making me wonder if there is a flow issue ... today I got a pea gravel shooter and it works the same either way ... that pressure is meaningless in regards to flow...
maybe something is wrong with the control valve body? .. If I pinch or break a hose on an attachment it will shoot oil with pressure until I shut the engine off ... mind you this is with no aux control switch activated either way .. should I be pulling the solenoid out Checking it for bad o ring?
Have you tried pushing in on the hose coupling first, that should release residual pressure. My little RC 30 has a designated button right at the hose connection.
I wish Kubota would put a relief button nearby connections ... I see John Deere has a button now .. that to me is admission of guilt or of there is a problem houston! ... but they don't yet ... the pressure is beyond the ability of even the strongest of men... they are spring loaded and thats all a man can do to push that ... I guess if you never experienced it you would know ... have you noticed rental places avoid attachments? hmm thats a clue
there are 2 sources of pressure that are problems for pushing in the connector ...
Something must be wrong. I have attachments on my backhoe and skid steer and depending on weather and attitude, they can sometimes give me problems but usually that’s me that doesn’t do what I should do. Shut it down, turn key on and turn auxiliaries on and move sticks back and forth to relieve pressure. I don’t have joysticks but with switches, should be the same. I use ISO quick connects because of my backhoe but am considering flat face, on all the skid steer attachment. If I rent an attachment, I have to change out the flat face, for the skid steer. Around here, they rent every attachment available.
you just spurred an intelligent moment ... no comments please ... I can not turn on aux power to the switch without the engine running and the aux switch on ... so here is a great possibility I am will try ... power the switch all the time .. even with the engine on and the aux off .. I will get back soon on answer
nice try but ... no go ... it's a latching circuit ... its not as simple as yours ... I bypassed the switch ... I need to go directly to the solenoid if I could figure out which one or two it is ... hmm ... pilot controls complicate things ..
How quickly are you trying to disconnect your couplers? I know that Bobcat has a sticker in the front, to wait at least 5 min, then the pressure should be equalized. By Excavators is it different, there is a procedure for that.
What am I missing here? Push the entire connector assembly inward, before disconnect, and/or before connect. Push the entire Green part into the Red part before approaching with attachment hoses. The black arrow points to where the movement occurs.
I get that ... there are springs the have to be compressed maybe 1/4 inch .. they take 20 lbs of pressure to get them to collapse, and when it does the pressure is relieved ... however that is not the case ... I am not fighting 3000 lbs of pressure ... thats different .. you can not compress at all not even a 64th of an inch ... don't I have to break the line with wrenches to relieve the pressure ... studying diagrams now ... solenoid valves control through smaller pilot hydraulic lines the opening and closing of aux paths .. not sure controlling solenoid voltage with aux switch off will do anything at all ... there would have to be a main path that would have to shut down for that to work , I don't see that main path as something that can be shut down... shutting engine down would work though ... hmm ..
I don't think I can manipulate what's already there to work right ... I use my attachments multiply times in an hour .. so its plan B add 2 solenoid controlled pressure dumps to the piping config with an independant momentary toggle to unload pressure .. I would be able to leave engine running shut off aux hit my unload switch and pressures on both sides go to zero .. then its just a matter of pushing on or off connectors I would only be applying enough force to compress the springs in the connectors ..
Something is wrong with your couplers or the manifold where these are mounted into. If you press the coupler in before your remove or install the couplers, the pressure should relief itself into the case drain. So either the couplers are damaged or the manifold is.
are you referring to the connection block/manifold on the Boom? couplers on attachments are new one side on boom is new because it leaked continuously .. over last 10 yrs I have bought 25 of these
you can not push them in the pressure is too great ... once you bleed off pressure they can be pushed in...
So, you're saying you wanna connect with the machine running? The newer Takeuchi have the little red, low effort, knob on them.
thanks ... the NEW thing is to me an admission of guilt ... they are ucked up right from the engineering table ... what I see is exactly what I am going to add to my piping ... thats a nice brand like the way the door goes up ... my version will use solenoid on branch tee , it will be under cab , DC will be on with the key , might wire it to attachment release ,, after market engineering ... I am afraid to pu all that outside on boom as a tree limb will take it out .. thanks for your comment
The coupler manifold is where the couplers are sitting in. Just for correct understanding, -You turn the machine off -You wait a couple of minutes -and then you wanna connect or disconnect the couplers and you have issues?
yes I understand waiting ... it bleeds off ... waiting is a problem ... I don't want to start and stop machine 20 times in 3 hours and I don't want to wait 5 minutes for it to bleed down 20 times thats 100 minutes ... your describing a normal operations and it is **** poor engineering in my mind ... look at heymccall comment ...some manufactures understand other think waiting is OK ...
Their coupler are different designed and need that button
so waiting is OK ? turning machine off an on multiply times is OK ? there is something wrong with needing the button? I get you ...
I don't know what to tell you, you want that someone invent the wheel completely new. That is not possible. If you know anything about Hydraulic/Hydrostatic Systems, that is the way. PERIOD. That is why certain manufactures have these couplers and come have others with little buttons.
step aside cowboy you don't need to go after me .. the wheel is flawed .. PERIOD.. some manufactures are realizing it, thats why its only on new ones. Science will change when new relevant information is comes forward ... stubborn manufactures move to the rear ...
Sounds like this thread is going nowhere. I understand frustration but bitching about a flawed design is wasting time. How about when you need to change attachments, you shut it off, go on your phone to HEF and bitch about it again. If you do a redesign and it works, post it up, so it can help someone else. LOL.
this thread is perfect ... bitching and explaining the problem are the same thing ... I put this up to get more ideas about how others see this issue ... also I want to hear from people who own other brands of equipment ... I am in the research part of a redesign ... it's not that hard to understand ...
I will step aside, I have no Problem with that. If you wanna be like Don Quixote, go ahead, be my guest. Big manufactures have figured it out, but stubborn Customers have always something to complain about it.
I sorry you take offence to my post and me ... you was never in the loop with that chip on your shoulder...
Have you talked to dealer, to see if they have come across this issue before. Maybe they have a work around.
there are 2 manufacturers who have a go around ... JD and Takeuchi have on the new machines mechanical bleed off valves ... if kubota had that I would fit it to my 2012 machine ... there is a way to add solenoid valves under the hood to bleed off pressures immediately, that is what I will do ...
Every piece of literature for flat face couplings, and skidsteer/ compact track loader, that I have read, advises to shut the machine off when coupling or uncoupling hoses. BTW, there is a male flat face coupler, for the attachment side, that allows coupling without having to relieve residual pressure (crack a line open). This is especially handy on dead end style attachments like grapples and combination buckets.
Bobcat has these integrated in the Couplers. Don't know how Kubota is doing it, but I think the same way. Why adding Solenoids, for that matter you would only need to find a way to active the existing AUX solenoids after you shut of the machine. With a Rocker Switch and constant power wire, everything is possible.
We're all missing the point. He wishes to NOT shut off the engine when coupling and uncoupling hoses.
Yeah, you will NOT come around and NOT shut the machine off. If you know anything about Hydraulic Systems, it is not possible to bleed pressure off if there is active pressure in the system.
looking at older machine Takeuchi 2015 introduced a manual bleed off valve on there loaders ...
thank you your a good listener
on the pilot controlled system you can not manipulate the system ... it would work if there was a solenoid to turn on aux and then 2 more solenoids for either way ... but there is not .. study that point see what I am talking about and a light will come on ... lol ... look close at the single hydraulic spool doing all the work ... its got 3 positions to it ... in the relaxed state which is simply neither way ... after you used it of course ... it will lock up residual pressure one way or the other ... one way is zero .. yes you can get that one off get back on the machine and switch it the other way now the other direction can be taken off ... Takeuchi figured this out 9 yrs ago how to get around that ... so you switch attachments .. now one side has residual pressure on the machine side the other doesn't ok do one side get back on machine switch , then get off the machine and hook up the other ... so what's the problem ... jeez
I understand how it works , I understand I can't change it , I understand how to add 2 solenoids and a switch that will work about $300 on the way. Maybe Kubota will have an upgrade aux block drop it with manual bleed offs, you can buy for $3000 like all there other over priced parts.
The push in style manifold, like my picture above, came with my 2007ish TL150 machines. My 2003 TL150 had just normal flat face couplings.
I see ... 2007 is more accurate as to when a manual at the connection block, relief, was available ... attachments are a pain, users need as much help as we can get... blow a hose and streams of hydraulic fluid shoots in the air ... engine goes off ... but I can't reach connections it blew when it was 6 ft in the air and I don't pack a ladder .. incidents like what I mentioned (I have had many) cause some of us look past the basic instructions looking for better ways .. I am not reinventing the wheel .. Kubota aux could be better if they would follow Takeuchi.
Yep.
Better listeners make better people worthy of friendship... Thanks Harley happy
I found a parts site for takeuchi ... looking to see if they sell that connect block with the manual relief as a possible mod to my Kubota .. but the parts for the takeuchi machine does not show the relief type connection type block in the parts manual ..
Stucchi Saturn Block Here, go down this rabbit hole. How to Use Stucchi’s Saturn Block Series Stucchi’s Saturn Block is a direct field replacement for other connect-under-pressure systems and allows for easy connection/disconnection with residual press www.stucchiusa.com The hyper links within go deeper. And, if you simply google "Saturn Block" or "Stucchi Saturn Block"
perfect thanks ... now this rabbit hole has questions ... maybe you got some answers I am assuming you have to turn engine off? ... this video was a good one ... ... I do know there if flow with engine running but its not a high pressure gauges say its zero pressure behind it. It looks like they don't sell a mod kit for a kubota? I need to call
JME sells them less than $100 ... is that real?... that looks like an answer ... I have ability to tig weld high press thin wall piping ... my son has a bender for it too.. but this is probably best option..
I believe that is the "stucchi saturn block" that manual relief will unload 3000# ++ ..talked with stucchi rep was first guy to follow every word I spoke .. I do have a all the info/facts of the issue both from the machine to the attachment just no one to consult with until now ... yes I would like to leave it running .. I believe you can take pressure to zero with a bleed off and pressure will "stay" 0 and not build, I believe its a path going back to the tank .. thats what it will take or you would just have to relieve it right before you push one on .. I "do" know, it you run an open hose off the quick connect loader side without the aux on nor engaged and you will get 1/4 inch of flow with 2 lbs? the only stop of flow is to shut the engine off ... but I don't believe it will build pressure it probably a return path its open too, should be able to push on a fitting with 2 lbs on it ... so I got a custom job piping a replacement block in .. better days ahead ...
and so I did ... I bought this stucchi saturn block ... I installed it (a trick left to the pros) .. and it works like it should, great ... no more oil on everything because I have to bleed pressure off manually ... no more fighting to push it on ... easy and clean ... sch 80 3/4 inch seamless pipe socket welded and shaped to fit ... thanks to those who encourage change
Think you need to give idea of cost and scope of work as there may be other lazy people like myself, willing to give this a go. Because keeping wrenches and rags trying to connect quick connects, that don’t want to friggin connect, is frustrating.. Bang, Bang, smash! Is that your machine?
the block cost $300 ... I reused 2 socket welds and bought 2 for $30 ... schedule 80 seamless $160 ... heat and bend pipe to shape 5-8 trys 5 hrs ... welding 2 hrs ... cut old mount and reconfigure 3 hrs .. it takes longer for any first attempt by anybody ... its a super tight fit up nothing will give save mount weld for after pipes are in place ... tig weld all of it ... yes thats my machine ... it took awhile for me to get brave to do it .. but now kubota is a favorite ... Ilike the roll up window .. I have worked on the AC a lot to I mind have it ... they all recommend total replacement at 5-7k ... I did a flush and more flush with blake cleaner ... so I knew to add oil back in well too much ... the original compressor has no oil reserve space to it slugged it .. I had given up on the idea and was thinking of a piston type compressor is more suitable but again a lot of reconfigure to work that idea .. then I had it off doing the DPF repair , it feel over and it dumped a 1/2 cup of oil out ... I realized then that it has too much in it ... but I know it is totally recirculated as it is needed or it will gum up ... book smart does not cut it ... school of hard knocks does. As Jon Stewart says GFY ... lol
Oh now the testing is not done ... the other pressure build up is when the implement sets in the hot sun it will build pressure ... I got special tools when that happens ... its likely in the spring when it gets put away cold (winter time use) and then it gets hot ... it may take a while to experience that syndrome. Most time when I put it away the oil is hot from use ... so it should be shrinking ? vacuum? ... we will see
What if you put a check valve in that could back bleed pressure on a solenoid, that you could control with a simple toggle switch?
exactly I looked at that idea too ... there is a location under the cab it could be done ... almost went that way ... the hoses would have to be remade they would not flex much .. it would take 2 independant solenoids ... when I got started I realized I had wrong fittings and no plan for a drain .. not only that but the remake of hose was not cheap ... and the space was questionable if it had enough ... yes it is a simple concept .. that's one place you don't want a leak ... so I aborted ...
We had a 2007 Case 450 SS and it had to be shutdown to swap attachments. In 2018 we bought a new Kubota SVL 75-2 and the attachments can be swapped with the machine running as long as the AUX switch is turned off. The auxiliary switch goes off when the arm rest are lifted so it isn't an issue unless you have a ground man helping you. I'm sure there have been several issues upgraded since 2012 and maybe the coupler was one of them or maybe a 13 yo machine has some leak by on the aux control valve. Glad you got the issue resolved.
the aux has solenoids on pilot controls ... you can shut off the solenoid feeds but the main spool it controls traps pressure in the attachment ... it will bleed of on its own after 5-10 minutes backwards through the main spool ... the fix allows bleed off immediately .. I do a lot of swapping back and forth of attachments .. not everybody does that .. not everyone will see the issue ... if I smoked it would be a smoke break ..lol
I can swap back and forth with the machine running and little to no break time. Could be that once finished with one attachment I drive to the other to swap this might take several minutes. Only attachment I've had a issue with is our grapple. After it sits on the sun for several days I can't hook it up without cracking one of the lines. I figure the lines on the grapple build some pressure from the heat. We've probably got 8 or 10 different attachments.
your experiencing the issue ... motors and cylinders act different ... maybe its a spool issue when the attachment is idle ... I put gages on the quick connects and see it pressures up to 3k lbs and holds it there switch spool other direction the 3k moves to the other quick and stays there ... If I jump off its still there and 3k is not possible to push connector in to bleed it off that way .. maybe a new spool and control block would change that... maybe not .. thats above my understanding of the spools function .. I have seen the block diagram of the hydraulic paths... I am no expert.
Could be? I've got a tree puller, root grapple, brush grapple, brush mower, articulating boom mower, PH digger, limb sheer, tree shear, and a post driver. Brush grapple is only one ever held pressure and only does it occasionally. The Case 450 had to be shut down to hook anything up and that was a pain, the Kubota doesn't. It's obviously an issue since they make the part you bought. Different experiences I guess.
the aux spool is the bottom one ... one way it criss crosses the other its straight .. b3 and a3 are the two different directions out .. crv-b3 and crv-a3 do what? anyone ..
it is certainly mind boggling ... if I bust a hose ... the 3k goes to 2 lbs .. there is some backflow going on? ... anyways a new control block and spool would be 10k? lol ... the stucchi saturn block is a reasonable answer engine can stay running
I reread your first few post. I've never had an issue disconnecting any attachment with machine running or not. The brush grapple only gives a problem after sitting for awhile.
There is no "couple under pressure" solution for the female flat face coupler, but...There is for the male. Take note the extra length of the male vs female units here. Versus conventional. And, "couple under pressure" doesn't mean full pressure, but rather residual or low pressure, like found on attachments that have sat in the sun, or two way attachments, like grapples and 4in1 buckets.
So they have done something different on the extended version of the male connector ... hmm .. interesting ... it will take a year of use to gather any issues clues with the stucchi saturn block relief ...
They do make a clamp to connect under pressure. Looks like the lever type wood clamps with a coupler clamp attached.
Yes, I had created one that works on mine and it would get them off unless it was really high pressure. But I ended up shredding o-rings meaning I had to replace the quick connect. So I'm not sure that is what you want to do. It's got a drawback
When I put up an implement, I always try and connect the hoses together. It seems to help me get the connects back on the machine easier.
I tried hooking the hoses on the brush grapple together and it didn't help. It is a good idea though as it keeps the couplers clean. Whenever we unhook an attachment we make sure to push each one in for several seconds to relieve any pressure then pull the collar back to release. Several years back our neighbor bought a SVL 97-2 with a mulching head and a grapple. Something happened to it that required warranty work so when they picked it up they dropped off a loaner. He ended up buying the loaner so he didn't have to ever unhooked the mulching head again. I guess those high flow hoses were too much for him.
I'm sure something could be done at the control block spool... To open the drain when aux is shut off...
Just not sure it’s worth it, unless you’re changing implementation multiple times a day.