I ran into a error code on this Komatsu PC210LC-10 S# A10009. It is an L03-CA2387. After doing some research on my own I found that this is a KVGT servo error. Its my understanding that this servo is engine oil operated, but I am not familiar with this particular system. Does anyone have any information about troubleshooting this problem? I am not sure where to start!
My books only go up to Dash 8. Can you tell me what the KVGT stands for? Is the machine acting any different that normal?
Should be the Variable Geometry Turbo
There is a booster pump. Typically on flywheel housing. Takes lube oil and raises up to 125 or so. Goes into EGR control valve. The inlet is filtered. Same goes for the block mounted on top of turbo center section. Under the block is 2 little Alan plugs. Take em out and clean with brake cleaner. Reinstall . Remove inlet fitting @ EGR control. There should be a filter fitting under there as well. My experience is that this fault is directly related to poor maintenance. Suggest an oil change as well. Good Luck It could be a defective turbo, but its highly unlikely vs the maintenance issue
Sounds like the same turbo Deere uses on some of their machines. Most of the issues I've seen have been poor maintenance practices as well. I agree with FWF. Start with an oil change and some cleaning.
Sounds like you 2 may be right. The maintenance on this machine has been non-existent. They did change the oil last week as I believe they had inquired about the problem beforehand but it didn't solve the issue. I will do some cleaning up today and see if I can revive the engine. A forum member here did email me a few procedures to do some pressure testing on that system, which is greatly appreciated. I priced a replacement turbo yesterday just for the hell of it...…………..$5K new !!!!!! about wrecked my truck on the expressway from the shock!
Well guys, I pulled the screens and cleaned them but to no avail. They actually looked spotless but it was worth a try. Since I have very little tech info on this and the fact that this system is new to me, I have contacted the Komatsu dealer here to have them come out and take a look. The last thing I'm going to do, after checking the pricing and availability of the parts, is start throwing parts at this attempting to correct the problem. At the moment I am suspicious of the KVGT servo sensor, but I have no parameters to check it. Sometimes you just have to make that call to the dealer and let them figure it out based on their own experiences and familiarity. Hopefully, I get someone that knows the system well and not some trainee.
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KVGT stand for K omatsu V ariable G eometry T urbocharger.
The dealer has been unsuccessful on repairing this after replacing the oil boost pump and the turbocharger. It is now getting dumped in my lap after the customer has spent close to $9K on this with no results. The LO3 CA2387 is still coming up on the monitor after 15 minutes of run time from a cold start up. The dealer has been unable to provide me with a theory of operation for this system and continues to REPLACE parts instead of finding what the problem is. Needless to say, the customer isn't happy. I need a theory of operation so I can better understand how this system is supposed to work. I have to assume at this point that the low boost pressure was not due to a bad pump as the dealer suggested and replaced, but possible something else maybe in the EGR assembly that is dumping oil pressure. Anyone have anything in this?
Please check PM
Number 5 cause from LATHAU mentions an oil pressure relief valve. Has it already been addressed. I have never seen this engine , so just speculation. If you could dead head the pump flow downstream from pressure relief plugging off the egr and vgt separately, it would help you find the leak, or tell you if the relief is venting. It would help to know what the relief setting should be.
Cause 4 calls for checking the lube oil pressure , so the lube pump must acting as charge pump for the oil boost pump.
Design of this engine is "TOO COMPLICATED"!! VGT has been moved by an hydraulic actuator which is controlled by an EPC valve (Electronic Proportional Control).....but this EPC valve is located at EGR Valve and oil pressure source of them (EGR & VGT) is common line!!!
Did you ever resolve this issue? We were lead to replace a turbo assembly on the machine and issue is still present, checked oil drive and control pressure. Have 160-180 psi, the vgt is constantly cycling back and forth and the pressure fluctuates. All engine sensors have good readings through Insite. Im leaning toward the EPC for the KVGT but am looking for some input before I continue. Any and all input will be greatly appreciated.
Yes. Before you spend anymore money, remove the inlet fitting on your EGR housing. Once that is removed, up inside the housing is a 6mm Allen head screw in screen. Remove that and clean it dam good. Reassemble and see if takes care of it. Don’t damage the screen because you can’t buy it without having to buy the whole EGR assembly for $1600.00.
Vetech, We tried this earlier this morning with no luck, the code is no longer active but the VGT continues to surge almost kind of like and idle hunt. very strange, one thing that did change is with the screen cleaned completely is that the booster pump pressure is only at 158PSI where a minimum is 174psi. Im beginning to suspect that the pump is not making pressure but can not find any further trouble shooting.
Where are you getting this 174 pound minimum value? That is the pressure that the unload valve is set to release at. You will never see that pressure while operating a warm engine. Are you reading the value of the pump deadheaded or going into the VGT/EGR PWM valves?
1.2 MPa converted to 174 psi is the minimum kvgt drive pressure according to the standard values and specifications I found in the service manual. We have two gauges setup exactly like the Komatsu procedure recommends. They are on the control and drive to KVGT. We have not deadheaded the pump.
What machine are you working on?
PC228USLC-10
PC228USLC-10 Slightly different Than OP but I thought I could use most of the tips and Hints.
Still, all valid info, you are correct.
My pressure seems to be about 15 psi below minimum, is there a way to check the relief valve or will whole pump need to be removed.
You're above 125, yer fine. It's just control pressure to exercise the functions
Im glad FWF is here! Do everything he says as he is the resident expert on Komatsu stuff. JohnC. is good info also!
Just to chime in...……...is there any current active fault codes on the monitor? It sounds like something else may be going on.
Oh no, not even close, I'm just a fill in when John C is busy
You can give yourself more credit than that! I know a little about 15 year old stuff. I think you got the new stuff better than my old brain can sort through.
My noggin is stuck in Volvo operating systems. I find it makes it difficult to grasp how Komatsu works and Liebherr for that matter. Slowly coming around though. When it comes to engines and their operating systems, I try really hard to stay current .
With engines, I’m not going to try any more.
you guys are good, typically the screen in the bottom of the rgr housing plugs easily, if its clean and good pressure from the boost oil pump, pull off the epc for vgt control and clean it well, and iirc correctly there is 2 screens under the block with the oil feed line on the tubro, the 125/140 engines plug them all the time. if no change change the turbo, ive changed a few for the helicopter noise your hearing.
Machine came back after working fine for a week, doing the same surge and had a fault for ca2554 exhaust back pressure sensor in range low. Surging again, replaced sensor and cleaned tube to manifold. Code came back for turbo position fault and machine continues to surge.
I don't know if this will help you but I have the same code CA2387. Checked the oil pressure for the EGR valve and KVGT. all of my pressures were good. the position senor for the KVGT was also good. I looked on the monitor and the position for the KVGT would stay at .018 and would not change. I replaced the turbo because the vane plate was stuck. After replacing the turbo machine ran good KVGT valve would stay around .213. The code went away, I ran the machine for 30 min no problem. Got a call the next day for the same code. Looked at the valve and it was stuck on .132 and would not change. I removed the turbo and disassembled. Some debris had gone though the turbo and bent some of the fins so the vanes could not slide though the plate. The engine seems to run to good for a piston or valve be damaged. the machine is on its way back to the shop now. Anyone have any suggestions on what it might be. Anyway maybe this will help you. I apologize if any of the terminology is wrong.
my pc210-10 just threw this code. Disassembled turbo and all looks good. Going to try to find screens tomorrow. I've had low boost pressure as long as I've owned it. Komatsu says I should hit 31psi and 26 is best I've seen, normally varies from 15 to 21. I had intercooler pressure tested.
What are you using to measure boost pressure? The onboard electronics?
yes, just chosing the custom monitoring in the screen. On the predetermined monitoring I noticed oil switch is off! Is thT for oil pressure or level? How can I turn it back on?
I've taken the turbo apart and cleaned the carbon off of the VGT so insure it is not sticking. I've cleaned the 2 screens in the top of the turbo as well as the on at EGR inlet. I'm seeing vgt positions up to .220 and down to .150 during operation. It indicates .000 when engine is off. If those values are normal then I think I can look elsewhere, if those are not then ill try running pressure check on oil supply. this machine has never boosted over 25psi for the few months I've owned it. Komatsu says it should hit 31psi. anyone else have one of these machines and willing to share their numbers?
The engine will only develop the amount of boost needed to carry the load against it. Have you checked your boom up cycle time? The system is load sensing.
I can go check that. I was maxing out bucket curl to load it. After it throws the code it seems to de-rate and get really weak.
I went and ran the machine with the DPF disconnected and it operated for about 10 min without throwing the code. Im going to clean the dpf tomorrow and see if i can get it back to work.
The bucket is only run on one pump. If it is derating, you should have more than one code show up on the monitor.
Is it possible to use an ecm from a pc210-8 and eliminate this horribly complicated vgt system?
No you can't, they are not the same model, you would have to change the engine harness and retrofit the connector that comes from the main harness to begin with, an extensive job that may not even work...
Ive diagnosed a few of these, as others have said check screens which you've done, oil pressure, once again done, my other propersition would be check epc command current and kvgt position sensor and see if they are working in correlation. Which if they have changed the kvgt assembly already probs not that. My other way to attack it is manually t into kvgt oil pressure, the control oil pressure at the turbo charger, I think I just remove the banjo bolt and had one tapped out to 1/8npt and and kvgt/EGR drive oil pressure and watch for drop outs. If you go right to the turbo and do the banjo bolt on the control side from the Epc check its fluctuations with the epc command current , (probs something in structure and function in shop manal for engine on how they correlate) This can help you find out if you have a failure in the EGR control valve side of things with possibly a failed epc or such, possibly try swapping them other if same part number
bummer
id like to start with simple first. do you know how much the kvgt shloud move? i get zero with machine shut doewn and .156 to .220 working it.
I have a 240lc-10 that is throwing lo3-ca2387 machine runs amazing for 30 minutes then throw code and derates. I have checked the screens on the egr inlet was a little dirty cleaned with brake cleaner and put back together and ran 5 minutes and same issue. Cleaned the 2 screens under the feed block ontop of the turbo still no change. Going to check pressures in the morning and go from their just trying to figure out if anybody ever figured out what their issue was any help is appreciated
Did you change the oil and filter when you serviced the screens?
KVGT: Abbreviation for K omatsu V ariable G eometry T urbocharger and it is a variable displacement turbocharger.
No I didn't probably should've but it has less than 100 hours on all new filters and fluids. The charge pump feeding the egr was putting out 210psi no fluctuations coming out of the egr valve
All these overcomplicated oversensitive pieces on vocational equipment, just insane.
Too bad you couldn't get a military spec. with all of it removed. It sounds worse than a nightmare.
hi guys does any of found what was the problem mine does the same issue as yours
Replaced turbo with brand new one and it threw CA2382 as soon as key was turned on and sent the turbo back thinking it could've been something in it and they came back and said their was nothing wrong with it after a month just put it back on today and it still throws CA2382 after keys on
First, did you remove, clean and inspect the screen at the EGR valve and did you verify good booster pump pressure? Did you start the machine and observe KVGT position while operating with and without load? Are you producing boost. The KVGT is hydraulically controlled. The computer has to see values within spec before the code can go inactive.
CA 2382 says that the signal of position sensor of Komatsu Variable Geometry Turbocharger is low Voltage. First, check the wires; the wiring harness connector then check the position sensor... See the attached file for more details.
LACHAU is getting fat on all that virtual steak I'm supplying him. Great info per usual!
Egr screens were removed and cleaned. Booster pressure was good and getting 4.97 volts to the kvgt sensor plug
Are there no other codes? Are you able to monitor voltage and position through the instrument panel? I think, I would want to monitor the voltage and position KOEO, and compare those values to KEOR, and then under load, so full throttle, arm in to end of travel and hit the boost button. (Left thumb button)
After checking values, I would follow guidance provided by LACHAU, we all know it's a PITA to backprobe connectors but not everyone has all the breakout boxes. I'm concerned mostly with the connectors at the EGR housing that act as a go-between. Verify your circuit integrity from end to end, yes, all the way to the ECM. Be EXTREMELY CAREFUL not to spread the pin sockets in the cavity. I always use a terminal removed from an old sensor and carefully check for drag while inserting and withdraw. While you have your measuring equipment hooked up, twist and manipulate the harness along it's path. Pay particular attention to right at the connectors and at each P clamp. Your looking for wires broken within the insulation(common Deutsch connector problem) and chaffing at clamps and bends. When measuring the circuit, don't forget to measure against the neighboring circuit for cross-bleed. Good luck
By the way, did we ever get that oil changed with quality oil /low ash?
4 pages of this and not one report of "It's fixed !" Joe H
Well, OP, Vetech63 corrected his issue. Rather than open new threads, everyone resurrects this one. There's a multitude of cause and corrections for "just this issue"
have you resolve your issue ?
did you now how they resolve their issue ? what was the cause?
does the dpf was the cause ?
Finally fixed the 240 ended up being the position sensor and a wiring harness issue the new turbo the sensor was bad from factory used the old turbo sensor and it didn't fix nothing got to chaseing the engine harness and found rubbed and stripped wires fixed that and it is back to its old self runs like new
Saturday 4/27/2024 My 2013 PC240LC-10 generated this same L03 CA2387 code last week. I used the information gathered from this post to help me determine what was causing it. I removed the servo block, or what I assume is the servo block, to access the mechanical arm of the gate inside the turbo. Used a crescent wrench to work the gate open and closed many times until I got a good metal to metal contact sound in both directions. In the beginning it was absolutely stuck in the closed position, soft sticky feel going closed. Used the machine for several hours after getting back together without the code coming back. Anyone try this with the same luck?
I got the same thing going on with my 2013 210 lc -10. I will try this and report back. This seems to be a common problem that all dealers should know about by now and how to fix immediately.
Finally ended up getting mine fixed I hope it ended up being a mixture of things the reason I was getting a code with the new turbo as soon as key was powered up was kvgt sensor was bad from Holset reused old sensor and fixed that code had a komatsu mechanic tell me to check the harness leading up to the egr block we're all your plugs for your turbo plug and found a bad spot after a lot of lost sleep and choice words it's been running for a month
So what year was your machine? So your turbo probably did not need to be replaced right? It was that sensor most likely?
Update on my ca2387 code problem. For whatever reason my code goes away and doesn't return if the filters are blown out and also the radiator and hydraulic cooler is blown out really good. Tells me something inside engine conpartment is sensitive to more heat than normal. Hard to tell if this is mechanical or an electrical issue
yes your correct that sensor was all that was wrong with mine and the harness was chewed on between the back of the counterweight and the block .. it may be a shot in the dark but I would check your pressures coming from booster pump if its getting warm causing it could be a sign of pump getting warm and loosing pressure
could i get a part number for the booster pump?
Dave, did u ever resolve this issue. I got same exact problem. I thought I had mine fixed but still throwing code. My engine oil switch also says off. Im not sure if the switch is bad or just disabled somehow in the monitor. How hand said his was the kvgt position sensor and some chewed up wires on the harness. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Do u recall if u had any irregular voltages or the kvgt postion sensor in the monitor? Mine is currently reading 3.5 then when it throws code drops to 2.8.
So i have an update on the 2387 code on my machine. I have ran machine now off and on for about 3 days now without it coding. I recently have had to work the machine really hard under heavy load digging stumps. Ever since I used the strong button on the top of left joystick the problem hasn't came back. Im thinking this could have forced something through one of the screens somewhere or something and the machine just needed to be worked hard for a while. Also, I've been thinking that the machine had been in derate because of the 2387 because I've had low boost of around 26 psi only a max of 1700 to 1800 rpm and turbo rpm of around 85000. Further investigation of that issue lead me to a possible out of spec calibration of the throttle control. The throttle is only reading 70 % max no matter how hard you work it but goes to 100 % when tracking. So, if u check front and rear pump and rpm through the pump menu its reading 5000psi 5000psi and 2000 rpm. So everything point to a fuel control recalibration or possible faulty potentiometer. So I'm thinking since the machine hasn't ran under its full potential for so long that this was the contributing factor. Not sure but will know more after the re cal. Will update
I worked on the older iterations of your model of machine and what you are talking about was normal operation back in the day. The machines had a power up and two stage relief that only allowed high idle on the governor and the top pressure and output rating on the pumps when the button on top of the left side joy stick handle was pushed. It only allowed that for seven seconds and then it would drop out. The other case where power up would work was when the machine was traveling. At that point you got both operating conditions, high idle and two stage relief as long as the machine was traveling. Operators learned that their steel toed shoe pushed just under one of the travel pedals would hold the machine in the high setting. We could tell what they were doing because the owner's would call complaining about the machine using a lot more fuel. Also you mentioned that you could see 100% throttle when in travel. Does your machine have a linkage type throttle and governor or is it digitally controlled. The 100% throttle reading indicates that your machine is operating normally.
No its all digital in the monitor u can observe it real time. It has 2 options related to throttle to monitor. Throttle control and final throttle control. The final throttle control is the one that never goes above 70% during normal operation