I am looking at a clearing and grubbing project 50 acres all the trees have to be down in 30 calander days which you can only work on the project monday-friday 7 to 5 no week ends. That would leave you actually 22 days to get it done the trees range from 4" dia to 42" average around 8" to 15" I was thinking about doing some of this the Austrialian way, 2 big tractors Fiat 41 and d8k and 200' large chain if I can find where to buy it but I have no idea if it will work or what to expect using this method open to suggestions. Another option was a clearing rake for the Fiat 41b, Rockland use to make one that was 24' wide and 9' tall I post some pictures of it I found a real heavy one thats 17' wide 9' tall if I could modifi it to fit the 41 even though it has no tilt. It was for A D9 I think, My CAT d8k and d7f and 6rlgp will be there too. trees then have to be burned with air curtain.
photo of clearing rakes Here is the Rockland clearing rake and a picture of the one I found with my friend next to it sunken in the ground
if your in pawnee, IL. don't forget weather.... don't know what month your project is, but if 09 is as wet as 08, don't be thinking a full 22 days! i tend to forget that my projects are weather dependent and then end up behind... another factor i would want to know is how clean is clean? those last few roots can take a lot of time to get cleaned up... for that size of project i like where your going with a root rake. those are the two things this rookie thinks of....
Whats the site layout like? I see you have the dozers covered, but do you have any excavators, graple skidders, or wheel loaders? How many air curtains? And do you only have to have them on the ground, or all gone in 22 days?
Fiat41b, My dad and I used to do a bunch of chaining with the anchor chain, it will depend on what kind of trees you have to clear. It works real good on cedars but not much else. The smaller trees it will just ride over them and they will spring back up. One thing about it when you chain, it will at least knock over the bigger trees and then you can come back in and dig the roots out. When we want to grub we just use the standard grubber that pins on our dozers. Alot of people have gone to grubbing with the excavators in our parts. If you decide to that you want a chain let me know. I know where there is one for sale, at least as of a year ago it was for sale. I think you will need more than a 200' chain though. Ours is 350' with 6"x13" links, each link weighs 53lbs.
clearing Yes the job is in central illinois. and it is going tho be done in Jan - Feb 2009 again 30 days to get the trees on the ground they said in pre bid if you dont have them down in 30 days they will go after your bond and have another contractor on day 31 they are serious then they want to get them burned in 15 days after the 30 i think they will give little more time with in reason on the burning. Getting them down in the time frame has something to do with their department of natural resources permit there is some reason but they wont disclose. I also have 2 100,000 class excavators and a tree shear for one have at least 2 air curtain destructors possibly 3 to use. How much for that anchor chain let me know if you can. The ground is low flat ground with slight hill in places easy to move around on. Its farmed in some places where its open some of these trees run along a creek ,hedge rows, 3 to 10 acres timber patches
I'm not sure but I think he told me $10 per foot, but that was also before the scrap prices got high. I will call him tomorrow and see if he still has it and how much.
ok let me know, the scrap prices have fallen back down the guy that has the rake also owns a bulldozer salvage yard he is 80 years old and got rid of a bunch this past year but has held off getting rid of any more and man does he have a collection.
Root rakes Does he have any root rakes for a D6C 10K?
I am unfamiliar with an air curtain. Can anyone explain what that is and how it works?
clearing I will check for you to for a rake for a d6c
Here is what I would do. You have 22 work days to flatten 50 acres, on account of the weather make that 15. That mans that you need to flatten 4 acres a day for production. So you get out your phone book and get about 10, 35 ton & 10, 15-20 ton excavators on standby. Start your dozers, and if you can't make production, bring in the extra help. Late is not ok in this situation. Better to have a 10k bill from a sub, then no check from the owner. Just make sure that when the tree tippin begins that all the operators are on the same page as far as where everyone is working, and that all the trees in one area go the same direction. That will make you time when burning. Layout the where the burners are going to go early, and drop the trees butts toward the burner, that way the skidder doesnt have to turn them around. Im thinking that with chaining that you make knock the big trees over but only bend the small ones over and with your equipment, your going to have to root rake the entire area to get the small ones out. By contrast if excavators came thru they could just pluck them out. Letting you grub after the trees were down and alot of the debris was burnt. Another way to do it would to be to have several excavators follow the chaining cats, finishing whats left behind. My thought were that if you did all the dropping early they might be impressed and if you needed a little time later on they would be more inclined to let you have it rather than nailing your balls to the wall.
just remember that we need pics of this job...especially if you chain it!
In Jan. and Feb. you could have a couple of feet of frost to deal with...
Clearing. Hi, 41B. Firstly, does your 41B have a ripper. If it does, then you shouldn't have much trouble taking down all the trees in that project with just the 41B and I think I'd look at doing that with the blade rather than a rake. Putting all that power on one or two teeth of a rake while pushing a tree does not usually make for long life of a rake plus a blade usually lifts higher than rake for more leverage. It is also quite possible to push the TREES into piles or windrows and come back later to clean up with your rake(s). Alternatively, you mentioned two 100,000# class excavators. They shouldn't have any trouble with even the biggest of the trees that you describe and they have a BIG edge over 41B in the leverage department for knocking the trees down. Another plus for the excavators is that you can dig down to cut roots a lot easier than a dozer AND you can use them very effectively to reduce the size of a root ball before you put the trees into the burn piles. Unless they are pretty poorly rooted tress, the D8K will have some problems with chaining the bigger trees that you mentioned. If you do decide to go that way, we used to use minimum 2 1/2" diameter links when pulling timber with D8H's. Hope this helps.
land clearing Hi there Deas I dont have a ripper for the 41b but my d8k has a nice kelly ripper. What size of trees is normal for chaining I could get another bigger tractor if it would come to it but I would like to use what I have and I have thought about using the blade for the heavy work I went and looked at the big rake again today buying price is great at 2500.00 and he also had a rome kg cutter with c frame for a d7 for 1000.00 but not for sure what model maybe a d7e that might work on an f model? or it could be even for an old 3t version i dont know how to tell the difference does any one know? I looked and asked for the guy thats interested in one for a d6c but sorry no go on one of those however he has an old d6c sitting there looked nice dont know much about it. Can anyone dig out some photos on some chaining or clearing with different dozer attachments I have always used a dozer and hoe with bucket or grapple thanks for the help and suggestions from everyone
I had asked a question about chaining a long time ago and also romanced the idea, I'm sure Deas answered and quickly burst that bubble, I can quote part of his reply "if there is another thankless job on the face of the earth I don't know of it" Little info on the net on chaining, any you find is likely from Oz, seems their tough scrub and lowbush lent itself to it. I do recall a story on 2 mismatched size crawlers that very well maybe your 2 suggested models that lost their line of sight, the smaller cat lost it's footing and was dragged backwards into the base of a large tree and destuctively damaged unknown to the larger machine. Although some of those trees sound larger I would think a 41 could push that down fairly quickly and then clean it up with your newfound rake.......
On chaining and bursting bubbles. Hi, Hardtail. It may well have been me that burst your bubble but that quote sounds like my view of running the chaser dozer with a tree pusher bar that is sometimes used to help out the 2 dozers pulling the chain in heavy timber. THAT is a rough, hard and thankless job. Hi, 41B. Using two dozers as mis-matched as the 41B and a D8K is frought with risks, not the least of them being the one mentioned above about being pulled backwards around a tree. One way that could work with minimal risk to the smaller dozer is to anchor one end of the chain to a bigger tree and have the 41B pull the other end in a circle around around the anchor tree. Then you go find another anchor tree and repeat the process. Then, when you no longer need them, you take out the anchor trees and clean up the mess. I have posted fairly extensively in earlier threads about the techniques used in chaining with 2 dozers. With the 2 dozers that you mentioned, you would have to be very careful to keep your cut down to what the smaller dozer can handle. I once used a Cat D6C and a Cat D4D together for a couple of days while the Cat D6B that normally had the other end of the chain was 'whores'-de-combat. (That's French for, "The girls are fighting again", for those of you who are linguistically challenged. LOL.) You can find some of what I have posted here:
pictures of trees Here are some photos of the trees that i have taken from the road side
more photos more pics
whats the going price for clearing and grubbing trees these days and having to burn them with an air curtain can anyone give me suggestions
Those trees look like your 8 will walk through, the 41 won't even grunt....... I don't know about this air curtain stuff :beatsme but clearing up here a few years ago was 200/acre with a D8 and rotovator, they made 2 passes crossways and everything below was chopped up, brush piled and burned. Of course that was prior to our latest oil boom and prices could be 3-400 and acre now??
I agree - maybe you are being a little conservative based on those pictures? Surely a 41 won't even roll any coal pushing over those sticks? I understand the time issue well, but it looks like you and the equipment you outlined are the right man for that job. Noone will question the judgement, no way.
From what I can see in those photos it looks like your 8 would handle those trees no problems.Chaining would be a good option,however there are a few things to consider, first of all have you ever done any or know someone that has?The last thing you need is to try and learn how to pull timber with 2 operators that have never chained in there life.Having a set time for the job I would be sticking to what you know.As I have seen alot of track plates torn off,track chains busted in half and every now and then you would here about the odd final drive housing being busted from wrapping the chain up and over it. My 10 cents worth. Set your 8 up with a timber rake of some sort,and let your 41 go ahead and knock the timber down laying it all one way and rake with the 8 across the timber. However if you are hell bent on trying some chaining I would for tractors that size be getting at least 300 to 400 feet of 3 to 3/1/2 inch chain,as you have no hills to contend with the heavier the chain the better as it will do alot better job on the small trees.Our chain that sits between a D7H and D7G most of the time is 350 feet long,about 200 feet is 2/1/2 inch and we have about 75 feet each end that is just under 2 inch high tensile,this way the heavy chain is in the middle where you need it.We contend with alot of hills so you have to find a happy medium.
With the time factor and possible bad weather i'd figure at least $1000 dollars an acre. I would just clear the trees and forget the chain thing.Get the rake for sure since it will be a lot faster cleaning up things.Plus less dirt in the pile to contend with when you try to burn. Some times bigger isn't always better,especially if you have to contend with muddy conditions.The bigger they are the deeper they sink!!!!!!! So will you be digging a pit to burn in or are you going to try burning on top of the ground?Will you also be trying to burn as your clearing? Cleared thirty acres with trees about the size of the smaller trees (lots of hedge)and brush with two dozers.D6H and R took about two weeks.About 5 acres of stumps that they cut even with the ground.Took longer to find and cleanup then to take them out. It was going to be famred ,so no shearing or breaking off here.Everything had to be grubbed out and pushed a long ways to ditch or non farm area.Did the double team thing with both dozers side by side taking to bush piles. At least we didn't have to burn anything luckly. By the way are they going to try and farm this or just clear.Anything sheared off will grow back,so if not farmed it will need to be mowed and sprayed later down the road if they plan on keeping it clean.Good luck!:usa
clearing Hello again just thought i would let everyone know that this is a union project and an operator cost me 60.00 per hr by the time i include all benifits and workers comp ins. Addendum came out today and they still want the trees down in 30 days and the have to be completely burned or gone in 60 days. all roots removed 18" below surface that are 3" in diameter and all roots larger than 1/2" to a depth 6" There are bigger trees out there the pictures are what i could get from the road but i would say the majority or average looks like the pictures. I dont know anyone around here that clears and burns with a air curtain for 1000.00 per acre if it goes that cheap they can have it that would be only 50,000 for 50 acres and i dont think i can run air curtains and excavators feeding them for that if im winning bidder i wont be digging a pit i would create an above ground pit where i can clean out the ash with a dozer or loader at ground level thanks for all your help and suggestions.
I was talking just the clearing,burning is your guess????? and yeah my operator wasn't getting $60 dollars an hour :drinkup and i was running one machine ,so as usual i was probably working for nothing ointhead Make sure you get all those roots now!!!!!!!! Again good luck:usa
clearing Thats ok Constructo i work cheap by myself all the time thats how we make money not paying ourselves enough. 1000.00 per acre sounds good for farm work our maybe when you dont have anyone holding you to a time frame.I have mostly cleared by the hour nothing bigger than 10 to 15 acres lately have had other jobs in the past with larger acres but they had dirt work included i get 150 per hr. for my d6r lgp and 185 for my d8k never have got to work the 41 buy the hr. it would scare them away.
Are there any wet areas? If not that should be an easy job, gosh wish I could land something like that. The right guy on a properly equipped D8 should be able to do it in 12 days or so. With dozers I would have one rough clearing and the other cleaning and pushing piles. If you have to stack to burn then you need the excavator, a good dozer guy can do that too. 2 good dozers and guys should have it done in maybe 7 to 8 days. As long as all goes smooth no break downs, no other problems. As long as the ground is good and its just those trash trees. Both dozers with a good clearing head, good solid clearing blade with teeth like a beals. I did 30 acres in a week one time and that was with 2 to 3 foot fir stumps all logged first. Just a D8 with a splitter on rear and that includes cleaning the debris real good for a chipper. A union guy probably won't work hard at it and with all your costs, time frame etc. $3000 / acre min, if it was here and in a nonburn area, it would be in the $5000/acre area cause it all has to be chipped. If you have wet areas charge accordingly.
You did WHAT???????????? Hi, Dozer 575/D8Bob. Quote: "If you have to stack to burn then you need the excavator, a good dozer guy can do that too." Unquote. The man has a 41B and a D8K, along with a few other toys and makes at least a part of his living with them so there is at least a fair chance that he can handle them so why would anyone post such a dumb comment as that? Quote: "I did 30 acres in a week one time and that was with 2 to 3 foot fir stumps all logged first." Unquote. You did WHAT?????????????? Post the photos, please. WOTT?????????? NO photos?????? Again???????? You have been thoroughly discredited almost every time you have posted on this forum, quite often by me, so why would anyone, especially me, start believing you now? Hi, 41B. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm for the idea of chaining that piece of country, chaining is at its most economical on bigger jobs 'cos you have to transport TWO dozers AND the chain to the job and then away from it again. Sure, it might be fun to set yourself up with a chain between the D8K and 41B but, unless you already HAVE the chain, you would have to source and probably pay for one. You would then have to get it to the job and that will also cost one way or another. Then, after you have finished the job, you would likely have to haul it away again. More cost. For mine, you would be better off spending the $2 1/2 G. on the rake and clearing it with the dozers. If the bigger trees prove to be a bit stubborn, use the D8K and Kelly pick to soften them up for the 41B to knock down. It might be worth going round and doing that before you put the rake on the 41B as the blade will both be stronger and - most likely - lift higher than the rake. Once the big stuff is down, get one of those big suckers in front of the blade of the 41B and just push it up and down that piece of land until everything on it is FLAT. That way, you could be cutting/flattening maybe 3 times the width of the bare blade in each pass. Then you can rake and burn it with no fuss or bother. If the trunk of one of those bigger trees is long enough and heavy enough, you might want to cut the root ball off and maybe some of the limbs so that it lays flatter on the ground. If you use this method, while you are doing the flattening, you might like to have the D8 standing by to push the already downed bigger trees out into the flattened areas as you come to them so that they don't get in your way with the dozer and log. Hope this helps.
30 acres full of 2-3 foot stumps - just you and a D8 for one week? Wow, that's working at a fantastik pace.
Doubt???????????????? Hi, Special Tool. Surely you are not doubting the great, the one-and-only, the HIGHLY (self)-esteemed, Dozer 575? You MUST be noo here. LOL. We older members all know the value of Dozer 575's statements - like the time he informed us categorically that you could not push trees with a track loader 'cos the angle of push - or dangle, or somesuch - would cause the bucket to slide up the tree rather push the tree over. ROFLMAO. Obviously, very few if any track loaders have read "The World According To Dozer 575." Please excuse me for a wek or two while I convluse with mirth.
Hello Deas and others on board last night i stayed up late looking at old state letting bid tabs found some close comparisions on tree clearings one had 53 acres it was at 1st bidder 4000.00 and another was McAninch 3300. but these jobs were not done in jan-feb or had these strong completion dates on the clearing because they were hiway jobs that also had million yds on them with a completion date 1year or more im sure they burned the trees cause i worked for a different contractor w/gps d6r on a different section they had and they burn also.
Set-up costs. Hi, 41B. The fact of having large earthworks to follow the clearing greatly reduces the set-up costs 'per unit of work', so to speak. Those companies were going there to do far more than just the clearing so their set-up costs were spread over much more work. You would be going in to do just the clearing so you need to factor your set-up costs to suit. One more reason why I think the two bigger dozers are the way to go, especially if you can get that trick with the log to work. I did a bit of clearing back in the early 1960's using a Cat D4 2T series dozer pulling a log behind it in a similar fashion to what I suggested in pushing the log ahead of you. It about tripled the width of each pass. We cut grooves around each end of the log, shackled chains in those grooves and had the other ends of the chains coupled to the D4's drawbar so that the log was being dragged behind the little dozer at right angles to it. It worked like a dream in light to medium scrub. Quite often, all that was needed to get it ready for plowing was a running fire over the flattened scrub and then plow it. Easy.
I have some concerns about the rooting process -if you have a lot of hard frost there was a few company's in in N. E. that bid jobs so cheap that the only way for them to make money was to prevent their subs from finishing on time -then collect the penalties check their reputation Hope you get job and all goes well
My concern is that if it is cold, after you disturb the ground the frost will go in deep
Oh shoot...that's right, I remember that about the loader. This is the same guy? Are we sure that this guy is not an internet "troll" looking for attention, because now it looks like there is a trend of absurd posts.:beatsme
One and the same. Hi, Special Tool. Yep, one and the same, variously known as D8Bob, Dozer 575 and another handle or two that I have forgotten. Also world renowned for bashing Cat high sprocket drives - ad nauseum, like a broken record - and spouting the, to others un-noticed, virtues of 'Kummagutsa' dozers simply 'cos they DON'T make high sprocket drive crawlers. Over a good number of years now, he has laid claim to having done all sorts of work, mainly with Cat D8H's and K's, but has so far failed to post a SINGLE, SOLITARY photo of any of the jobs he lays claim to having done. By far the great majority of his posts are either difficult to believe, deliberately stirring the pot, or both. Sadly, some of what he posts is either dangerous or very close to it. I won't let him get away with any of that and one or two others here have blown him out of the water a time or two as well. I see you caught on to that latest claim pretty quick too.
Your like an elephant with totall recall Deas.
:stirthepot:If all else fails you could always use the axe, I hear with the right operater you could get 30 acres a week!!!
:lmao I woke up thismorning thinking about this - trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but no way. Last small road job I did, had 130 itemized trees on it for removal. The site engineer marks them for caliper and type (he still doesn't know what a Tulip tree is) and I go out with paint can before anyone else and locate them. This is 130 14 inch average hardwood in about THREE ACRES. Now you see my point. 575 lives in the WASHINGTON area, this is an area not exactly known FOR SPARSE TREE GROWTH. So we should assume that any LOGGED acreage would contain AT LEAST 30 stumps per acre. Okay, 30 acres in one week gives you 4.28 acres per day. That's 128.5 stumps per day, in logged land (remember). So we are talking 3 minutes, 45 seconds per stump removed and cleared - NO BREAKS ALLOWED EVER AND 7 DAYS THIS WEEK. Dude, I don't know If I can believe this?? This guy is pulling chains here.
Hi 41B it sounds like you already have the equipment to do that job.For myself I wouldn't worry about chaining the trees I would use a excavator to root them out and the dozers to pile with.But your problem will be the weather thats one thing you can't control and it will make it or break it for you.
Mathematics as a 'Boolscheizer' repellant. Hi, Special Tool. Good one - mathematics used as 'Boolscheizer' repellant. I worked the figures too and, allowing him 7 x 24 hour days and based on your estimate of 30 stumps per acre, it would still have him digging those suckers out and disposing of them at the rate of around ONE every 11.2 minutes, 24 hours a day for SEVEN days straight. 30 stumps per acre? Let's assume that Mother nature was on a neatness kick when She planted them and they are arranged in neat rows both ways on a 5 chain by 2 chain acre. That would allow you to have 10 trees down the 5 chain side of an acre and 3 trees across the 2 chain end of the acre or 3 rows of 10 trees per acre. That would give you a spacing of 11 yards between trees down the 5 chain length and a similar 11 yards spacing between trees across the 2 chain width of the acre. (Allowing for space to the first tree of the adjoining acres as well.) Now MY point is this. Did you ever before see Mother Nature be so generous with space for each individual 2 foot - 3 foot tree in country that is renowned for being heavily forested? Bigger trees? Maybe. But not for "WEEDS" (Have I heard that word used somewhere before?) like these. Methinks that you might have been a tad 'charitable' in your allowance of only 30 stumps per acre. Still, let us have a look at a meagre 30 stumps per acre. For 30 acres, that gives us 900 - Yes, Martha, you heard that right. 900 stumps - for the whole job. Again assuming 7 x 24 hour days, that means that he took out 5.357 stumps per hour, EVERY hour, 24 hours per day, for SEVEN straight days with NO sleep, NO meal breaks and NOT even stopping to answer 'nature's call' every once in a while - or just slightly more than 11 minutes per 2-3 foot stump, dug out and on the heap, around the clock, for the whole SEVEN days AND nights. Dozer 575, you're a legend - in your own mind and your own lunchtime. Just my 0.02.
Sorry, had to edit a double post. Maybe a Moderator can remove this one for me, 'cause I don't know how
I found a video of Dozer575 at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDPIkKTt894 Sorry, I don't like to :stirthepot much but I couldn't resist:lmao
Did you say 3 minutes 45 seconds per stump? Rare to go over 1.5 minutes on a big one. And its probably alot more stumps than you listed per day. Production always slows in swamps, and steep areas. The job wasn't 100% large stumps but it had more than most other jobs I had done most all were 2 to 2.5 with many larger sizes as well as some old growth fir stumps here and there. The ones that are worse than big stuff are the vine maples that can get you in the rear if not careful. I wish I had pictures or videos.
You will no doubt pardon my scepticism. Hello, Dozer 575. You will no doubt pardon my HEALTHY scepticism. You have posted so much garbage in the past that it is now far easier to simply doubt all of your posts rather than try to sort garbage from the plausible. You have long ago blown any credibility that you had on this or any other site and yet you still keep trying to get people to believe you. And then you go and crwfish on your original statements about this - probably fictitious - job. I don't know your American timbers and trees but I have been told by several people that firs are seldom the easiest of trees - or stumps - to remove. Unless the logging had been done 40 or 50 years before and all the stumps were rotted to almost nothing, I can easily imagine that you might spend 3, 4 or 5 minutes on an individual stump. Where would 20 or 30 stumps like that leave your average. And that's allowing only one hard one per acre at best. Or maybe they were balsa stumps instead of firs?
Aaaahahaaahaa, that's really funny:lmao:lmao:roll The funniest part is that the guy left the sound in real time! Those were some tough looking fir trees in that video....... ops
Third generation Balsa..:falldownlaugh
"I rarly go more than a minute and a half on a big one." Remember that the context has the operator removing the stump and placing in on the burn pile. How fast does a d8 go in first? That means that in your 90 seconds you have to pop the stump, and place it on the pile and get to the next stump. But maybe you drive as fast in real life as video protrayed the little cat going.
That video was so funny given the context of this thread I couldn't resist. But, seriously, I think that what D8Bo... I mean Dozer575 says is possible under the right conditions. There is an article at the beginning of this thread claiming 6+ acres an hour for an HD41 clearing 4"- 20" oaks in sand, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that a D8K in the same conditions could manage at least 2-3 acres an hour? It really all depends on the soil and water conditions, and how the root system is developed. Here's a video of my old D6 taking out some pine and oak trees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTEjvqzXHU0 I've got 4 trees out and pushed out of the way in about 6 minutes or so, the smallest being maybe 6" and the bigger ones 14"-18", that last one might have been a bit more. Yes, whole trees do come out easier, but take into account that it's a 100hp stick shift D6 that only steers one way LOL. I ran a D8K with a Fleco rake doing clearing work, and it's at least 3x the machine that this little 6 is. Also, as long as I'm playing devil's advocate, I'd like to say a word about pics, or lack of them. Deas, you've been pretty hard on Bob about never having any pics to prove what he's done, but I can't recall you having many yourself? My point is, I believe that you said once, either here or elsewhere I don't recall, that you didn't have a lot of pics of your work because most of it was pre-digital era and it just wasn't common to carry a camera, or something to that effect. Sounds reasonable to me, enough so that I've never doubted anything you've said because of lack of visual proof. I believe that Bob's alleged work was also performed back in the day, so wouldn't the same thing apply? As far as what Bob has written over the years, I'm not going there 41B, With the 41, D8K, D7, and D6R all working together I don't think you'll have any problems, but if you want me and my old 6 to come out there and give you a hand just let me know LOL
Dave, do some searching on deas, he has tons of post and pics as well. His wealth of knowledge is right alongside my uncle, whom has been on machines for over 50 years and I hope Deas takes this as a compliment. From what I have read and saw I will rank you right up there with my uncle and I think very highly of this man. Trbo
GOT TO LOVE IT!! Trbo
Ok, you quoted my post but maybe didn't read it carefully enough, or maybe I wasn't clear enough in my statement. I stated that I was playing "devil's advocate", which by definition means taking up a position in opposition of what one believes for the sake of debate or to test the validity of the original argument. I also stated of Deas that " I've never doubted anything you've said" and I meant it. I too respect his knowledge and experience, read most if not all of his posts, and am indebted to him for his help with my "new" 212. My point was that just because Bob doesn't have pics of jobs from 20 or 30 years ago doesn't mean they didn't happen. My grandfather was a lifetime local 825 operator and we only have maybe half a dozen "work related" photographs from his entire career, but the lack of pictures never made me doubt the stories he told me. Folks back then didn't seem to take many pictures of their work, including, I believe, Deas himself. But, as evidenced (or so I thought) by my statement of "As far as what Bob has written over the years, I'm not going there" I'm not prepared to defend him or vouch for him or anything of that sort. My point was ONLY about photographic proof- or lack of- and nothing else.
i have just finished clearing approx 30 acres of small to large trees, we used 2 excavators, a 21 tonne hyundai and a 16 tonne sumitomo working 11 hours a day, in 15 days we cleared, sheared and ground the lot, included in this was 2 days raking the entire area, had to be clean as the site was being subdivded for housing, grinding was done with a vermeer hg 6000tx, grinding took 5 days, we use a ripper on the excavator for knocking over trees, a quick rip around the tree makes it easy to push over and the stump comes out with the tree, saves a lot of time later digging out stumps, we cant burn trees here, any trees cleared have to e ground to mulch.
Point taken, I kinda read through it fast and skiped some of it. I hear ya on the lack of photos taken, grandpa was in the biz for over 60 years and we might only have 100 pics total. Didn't mean to P you off, my bad for not fully reading the entire post. Trbo
Hard on him????????????? Hi, DieselDave. Ackshully, it wasn't me who started the call for Dozer 575/D8Bob to post some photos of his work. I just haven't let it go is all. And I can wait pretty good at times. Dozer 575 wasn't talking 4" to 20" TREES. He was talking 2 FOOT to 3 FOOT stumps, which are a whole different proposition. I have also found that trees growing in sandy soils tend to compensate for the lack of holding power in sand by growing stronger and more extensive root systems. This also happens in some rain forests 'cos the topsoil is often quite shallow, even unto having some form of weathered rock not far down. Another reason for shallow root systems in rain forests is that sometimes the subsoil is somewhat acidic in nature. Some trees and plants don't tolerate that too well. Both of these soil conditions also often have lower tractive co-efficients than some other types. On the subject of photos, way back when, a common camera format was the 35 millimetre slide camera, the products of which required a slide projector and screen to display them to their best advantage. Their very nature made them pretty much impossible to scan in the same way that a printed photograph can be scanned to create a digital version of it. I have some 35 mm slides of the Hammersley Iron Ore Rail Project from 1965-66. I also have some Super 8 movie film from the same job and from several subsequent jobs as well. Do you have the technology necessary to convert these formats to a digital format that can be loaded into a PC and uploaded to a web site? I don't - - - yet. But I AM looking. I'll get off Dozer 575/D8Bob's case when he stops presenting a case for me to get on to. I freely admit that he has put up some good posts over the years and in the various forums where I have found him. Trouble is, he has put up a LOT more that are either hard to believe or just plain inflammatory. Your choice.
Deas, At the risk of sidetracking this discussion further...I've got an HP scanner that has a slot in the top cover that will accept either slides or negatives. I've scanned color 35mm negatives that I then printed out at 8 x 10 size with pretty good results. If you've got older dozer photos you'd like to on computer I might be a good way to do it.
Deas, I am scanning all my old slides with a Canon PIXMA 760 printer/scanner. It has a frame to take the slides and sits on top of the scanner. This is an older model now but any of the PIXMA range should do it. It takes nearly an hour to scan four slides, so I just set it going and leave it. It scans print negatives as well. I don't know about movie film. On Topic: Try digging out a big old mallee stump out of deep clay or sheet limestone when the top breaks off, it will take a little longer than three minutes. Rn'R.
I've done about 6 acres in a day before, in somewhat muddy conditions. BUT it involved a Case 170C excavator, Bantam 266 excavator, TD15C, TD20C and a Case 1150 B. And it wasn't an 8 hour day either, probably about 12 hours. It was a mile of pipeline ROW, 50' wide. Mostly average size trees, with a handfull of really large cottonwoods mixed in. And we just piled them on the side of the ROW, then came back and pushed the piles into the middle and burned them after we laid the line. Taking into account the larger dozers, I'd say do-able, but like my example above, things absolutely have to go 100 percent right. That was just kind of a test I did to see how much we COULD do in a day, and it was a section that didn't have any creeks or other obstacles, just pretty much straight clearing.
opcorn
Same here, I always cook up a bag when Deas and Dozer575 get into it!:jerry
Yes, this sounds legitimate. FIVE considerable machines to accomplish this, I would never doubt. Also, we need to remember that LOGGED trees are money....so the chainsaws are definitely NOT leaving a 5 foot high stump for leverage.
I'd still be worried about the weather.... get a foot or 2 of frost in the ground and uprooting those trees and clearing all the brace roots could become a real project. especially with no better than winter is shaping up too be. even if it is warmer, snow melt is a mess and cold weather means it takes longer to dry out.
So why would it take longer than say 30 seconds for a D8 to split and remove a 2 foot dia stump cut at maybe 1 foot above ground level? Yeah wish I had some videos. I never said I chipped or burned all the debris in the amount of time. It was all fairly flat and real good ground.
Deas, " Hard on him ????????" Only about the pics, mate, only about the pics! LOL Yeah, I remember some good posts by D8Bob back on the old ACMOC board. Unfortunately, "inflammatory" is good word to describe his style, whether he means to be or not. I do understand that he gets under your skin, and the hides of many others as well. Regarding root systems, around here it seems to be more or less a crapshoot because we have such widely varied soil conditions. Case in point, I once gave a price for stumping a 2 acre building lot for a guy I know. He had a sawmill come in and cut the trees- needless to say there wasn't much showing above the ground to get hold of, and some of them were fairly good sized for these parts. I thought to myself "This is going to be a real ^$%$!" and gave a pretty high estimate accordingly. A few days later I finished up a job and moved my old D6 to his site around lunchtime. I had just intended to drop the machine off, but figured what the hell, I'll just bump one of the bigger ones to see what I'm up against. I braced for an abrupt halt, but the old 6 never slowed down- the stump came right out, neat as you please, as did the next one, and the next, and the next... Before the day was over the stumps were out, pushed to the back and piled where he wanted them. The property owner wasn't around, but I called him that night to tell him I was finished and he met me at the site the next day with a smile on his face and cash in his hand. There was no way I could charge him what I had quoted for what turned out to be such an easy job, so I started peeling off hundred$ from the wad he had given me and handing them back, explaining the reason as I did so. He said "Shoot, you didn't even count it yet! I put an extra $200 in there over what you quoted because you did a nice job and did it so FAST!" LOL We settled on some sort of compromise eventually, but that's the first and only time I've ever argued price from that position. LOL Those trees (mostly oak but a few pine) were in a sandy loam with a fairly high water table, but not high enough to be muddy, and they just didn't have many big roots. On the other end of the chart I was clearing an old apple orchard once with the same old 6. The apples came right out, and I was pleased to be finished up early in the afternoon. Then the farmer came over and asked me if I could push out "that tree over there", pointing to a far off corner of the field. Flushed with my easy victory over the apple trees, I immediately agreed without taking the precaution of going over to look at it first. Well, I don't know what kind of tree it was (not an apple, that's for sure) but it had a gigantic tap root that went straight down forever- all the way to Hell, I presume- right through a bed of wet, slippery clay. I spent more time getting that one *&%^! tree out than I did clearing the apple orchard!:Banghead And I didn't get no tip, either! Ah yes, slides, I know them well. As you say, for years there was no easy way to convert them , but I believe there is now- some earlier posts have covered it, I think. I hope you can get it done- I'd love to see them , again not as "proof" but just for enjoyment of seeing a young(er) Deas at work on some classic iron.:drinkup
Not PO'd, you just gave me a good opportunity to expand on my original post:drinkup About those pics of our grandads- maybe that would make a good thread? It would give me a reason to get my old photos scanned and into the computer...
That's what I've been worrying about...in areas of bare ground we had a good foot of frost last week, and that was before it went below 0° F. last night.
Was actually talking to my uncle the other day and he, like many of his generation, has tons of photos on slides. I would love to be able to get them on to a computer and see them. Yes that would make a good thread. Trbo
clearing Well guys the job bid today out of 7 bidders 2 only bid the thing the company I was going to bid with backed out they were covering the bond as I would be their subcontractor and they would handle the erosion control seeding,riprap ditch checks ect. I do alot of work with them off and on I also hire them for all my underground work they are the biggest underground outfit where im from, I think with all the risky strings attached to this project it scared everyone. I told them 2 companies bid they wished they would have. However I still might get a shot at this I had talked to one of the owners yesterday afternoon prior to the bidding and sent hime photos and info on the 41 with rake and the tree shear - grapple for my excavator ect he seemed impressed by the info. and told me to call them tomorrow morning the high bid went for $950,000+ winning bid was for $500,000 the high bidders were crazy on their price as always.
Holy Hell 10 grand an acre that is incredible!! Wish we could get those sort of dollars out here, would retire after a couple of jobs.That sort of money means I could run my D7H for a week and a half and only clear 1 acre,could you imagine the cocky when he revisits you after a week and your still on your first acre :cussing there would be no chance of getting any money from him or another job.
Everything's bigger..................................... Hi, Billy X. You should know by now that EVERYTHING is bigger over there, INCLUDING the bills. LOL. And remember, those are U.S. dollars. One of our's is currently only about 69cents, U.S.. :beatsme So what would you charge for clearing a block like that? Maybe we can start a business transporting blocks DownUnder, clearing them and sending them back topside. LOL. Waddaya wreckin?
I don't understand your post? I understand you think the price is high, so do I. But the entire point of his thread is the VERY tight (despite what some superheroes would claim) time constraints on the project -THAT is the real reason for the high bid prices. So doing an acre a week, like you said, would earn you more than just kicked off the job, you would LOSE you bond.
Yup, too many strings attached. That's why the bidders just threw out ridiculus high bids, gotta cover their butts. I'm not so sure I would go in and take on the job if the owner refused the other bids and just hired you. To me, that shows that he isn't reliable and trustworthy enough to begin with. Plus it makes you look bad coming in and undercutting the other bids. If he doesn't like the prices offered, he should change some specs, make it a little less risky for the contractors, and open it up for a rebid.
i want to see some pics of the 41b
clearing The winning bid was for 500,000 i have to talk to them this morning not the owners sorry for the misunderstanding.
me too!!!!
No misunderstandng by anyone, I don't think. You were very clear/concise. In my opinion, the misunderstanding stems from the time constraint priority. Some might not understand that these are not always just about time, but just as much about seperating wheat from chaff. They don't even want chaff BIDDING on this.
clearing I would say your are right Specialty Tool by the way I called into the winning bidders office but the guy I needed to talk to had left for a little while so I called back this after noon. I left him a message to call me as he had someone in his office, havent heard anything back from him yet guess i will have to wait till the morning my joint venture bid would have been around 400,000. Do you think if you were in the other companies shoes would you sub it out and end up putting easy 100,000 in your pocket? They do sub once and a while and im interested. The other half of my brain is telling me this, even though i really would like to have the work as this year really sucked for me due to lack of jobs around here the weather is terrible now we already have temps in the teens and single digits freezing rain snow on top of it and more freezing rain and snow coming this week with the temps staying low.
i would like some jobs at that rate also, i just finished clearing 30 acres in 15 working days, 11 hours a day,only had sundays off, after clearing had to shear and grind the trees they were mostly small trees, around 12 inch diameter, took 45 hours to grind with 630 horsepower vermeer grinder, got less than 10 % of $500,000..we were also on a tight finishing time, excavators and dump trucks were working around us while we were grinding. i may move to the US.
Deas Plant : Its a good thing dozer 575 lives across the globe from you, otherwise i think he would have egged your equipment and toilet papered your house by now...lol
Pics?
Bring it on! Your be needing that vermeer grinder,just to chisel through the frost Sub-zero weather on the way again.Plus ice storm right now.Always sounds and looks better when the other guys doing it. I do agree that is a good chunk of money,but you'd earn it before you was done.Especially the ways the weather is going this year.:usa
i have some pics, still in the camera in my truck, will download them over the weekend.
glad we dont get your sub zero temps here, or ice storms, cold weather and snow is good for one thing only, skiing,you guys have some great skiing in thre US.
Yup ice storms can be a real problem. Ice storm on 12-11/12-08 still without power since 1 am the 12th, thats 7 plus days now
PSDF350, I know how it is...was without power 7 days last winter from ice storm. Took 'till June to clear up all the downed tree limbs. I want no part of it again.
This is longest i've gone most have been just a day or 2. Was checking psnh's site again today now where looking at the 21st. I was supposed to be back on wensday then the 20th now the 21st.:beatsme Will be nice to someday soon turn on a switch and actually have it work
PSDF350, no power at home but you find an internet connection to HEF - that's what some would call an addiction.:cool2
that sounds real bad in cold weather, how do you keep warm, cook food and make hot water ? where is NH, i have been to the US many times, is that around new york state? i shipped my harley over there in 2003 for harley davidson birthday, rode from san francisco to sturgiss, (sturgiss bike week) milwaulkee, chicago ,niagra falls, boston,marthas vineyard, new york city, through texas, new mexico, vegas and back to san francisco, i think we rode through 23 states,( cant remember them all now) did 17,000 kilometres (over 10,000 miles) in 6 weeks.it was summer, no ice storms although we did get caught in some huge downpours and wild storms with wild winds.
Across the globe????????????? Hi, Rcn11thacr. I'm on the same side of the Pacific puddle as Dozer 575 at the moment. He isn't exactly breaking down my motel room door. I don't get on his case 'cos I don't like him. I don't know the man so I can't make that assessment. I get on his case when, and only when, he posts something that I consider to be anywhere from questionable or 'of dubious parentage' through to 'male bovine anal excrement' or just plain garbage. In there, I include any and all posts which contain material that might be dangerous to the uninformed or inexperienced, or even to those with a few clues. This thread started off with a request for ideas, information and advice on pricing a clearing job with a tight time frame using specific equipment that the enquirer had at his disposal. The query also asked whether it might be worthwhile considering using a chain on this job. Then some clown jumps in and says he has cleared 30 acres of stumps in a week with a rear splitter on his dozer: Quote (from Dozer 575): "I did 30 acres in a week one time and that was with 2 to 3 foot fir stumps all logged first. Just a D8 with a splitter on rear and that includes cleaning the debris real good for a chipper." Unquote. NOWHERE in the original query did the poster mention using a rear splitter or clearing 2-3 fir STUMPS. Also, once you get them out of the ground, stumps are a good bit easier to get into piles than whole trees 'cos you don't have any branches, twigs or leaves to chase up. In my mere 44 years experience, chippers tend to like larger stockpiles to reduce moving and set-up time. This means longer pushing to get said stump remians into those larger piles for the chipper. The math aside, the comparison is like chalk and cheese. 'Nuff said?
Addiction???????????????????? Hi, CM1995. Maybe I'm a little more charitable than you. LOL. I prefer to see PSDF350's ability to find a way get on here in the middle of a blackout as 'dedication'. LOL.
Not to hi-jack the thread here for long ,but amazing what happens with the internet and what you learn about peoples experiences. Sounds like you had quite an experiencing trip. 6 weeks,just think you could have cleared another thirty acre. in that time. Glad to hear you enjoyed.You have saw more then i have in my whole livetime in 6-weeks,except for my two years in the Army:usa
All it takes is a generator and be lucky enough that the idiot who wired this house for gen power with no thought to lights ointhead was smart enough to know what plug I was going to use for computer. Have our generator that runs stove, furnance, water, fridge, and then there are several plugs that gave us tv, computer and lamps. Got power back today at 1pm so that was a grand total of 8.5 days without power.:dizzy
Just make sure you disconnect the generator before you turn the power back on ,or the generator will be toast Glad to here the juice is back on.Ice here also ,but no outage yet,but windys are suppose to pickup around 30mph,so might snap a few lines.Last year here was like out there.:usa
it was a great trip, i rode through your state of iowa, never seen so much corn in my life.
we are lucky we do not have the extremes of weather that you have.
some pics of the 30 acres we cleared recently.
Pete - nice pics. This is pretty much what I expected. Please understand that thhe US is still geographically considered "forest" For example, the land that 575 claims he cleared is "logged land". You couldn't even believe thhe difference between tat and the pics you posted. You can barely WALK in logged land without tripping over a stump. The pics you posted are already cleared, bubba.
No I turned gas line off so it could run itself out of gas and flip panel switches from gen back to house.
Never seen a rake quite like the one the excevator is using...looks pretty handy....just pick it up, sweep up some debris, and drop it again.
we cleared the land, there were lot of trees although most of them were 12 to fifteen inches in diameter at 3 feet off the ground, we do have some forests where there are big trees that are logged, of course the greenies are constantly trying to stop all logging, i guess that is the same worldwide, where we do most of our work is around 30 to 40 miles west of sydney for new housing estates and industrial and commercial estates. i live on 46 acres around 40 miles west of sydney at the foot of the blue mountains, the blue mountains comprises million of acres with a lot of big trees, however this is mainly national park and any kind of tree cutting is ABSOLUTELY forbidden, most of the logging in NSW is around 100 to 200 miles south of sydney.
this is the kind of rake mostly used by land clearing contractors here, because most of our work is for subdivisions we have to leave it fairly clean for the earthworks/ road construction to follow, the downside of this rake is if you dig it in too deep it falls out of the grab which can be incredibly frustrating, it is only held by the hydraulics of the grab which means you have to rake faily lightly,when you have had a long day and concentration lapses it is easy to dig it in too deep so you keep losing it, as i said, very frustrating towards the end of a long day.
Nice photos, nice area where you live. Hi, Australian Pete. Nice photos. Thanks for sharing. I did a little sub-division work around Sydney a few years ago, the last in 1984 to be precise. On that one, I pulled down most of the trees on a site at Avalon on the North Shore with a Link-Belt LS98 set up as a drag-line with 70 feet of stick. There was a Fiat-Allis FL12B track loader to do the stacking and a backhoe and crane to dig out all the palm trees and re-locate them. You also live in what was a nice area when I was last there - in about 1978. I suspect that there would have been a few changes since then. Thanks again.
This is a patch of scrub that needed to be removed for a housing estate . Because of public pressure to leave it as a nature reserve years before , it became overgrown . Once the scrub surrounds big trees like these and the leaf litter gets thick , it is the end of the big trees . The scrub and leaf litter are a great breeding ground for termites and fungal growths that then attack the trees unseen . This is the damage i frequently find to big trees because the "Greenies" wont allow the area to be maintained . It was only intended to clear the scrub and leave the big trees but when i found the trees to be in a dangerous state i advised they be removed . Any "Greenies" reading this , take note . All but the biggest trees where extracted with my vertical tree grab , the rest i had to dig around and push over .
I could'nt imagine they would pay you nearly 10 grand a day to do the work for them and hope that you can do it on time so they don't lose thier bond .
I would say your right as they have not contacted me so i have given up on the matter and moved on to another project. FREESEN INC. is the contractor and the biggest midwest heavy construction outfit around here they have the power to bully there way thru this thing if weather is'nt to coperative anyway they do sub once and a while. Besides the weather has been real cruddy probably better off else where i was hoping to get some work for the 41b its looking slim guess it will have to keep sitting i do start it up and move it time to time. I race motorcycles too and have thought about selling it as its going on 2 years with no work for it. Maybe I should move (lol)
If it's just sitting and your making payments it is probably better to sell it . It's not a sign of quiting , it's just good sense . You can allways buy more gear later if things pick up . If you can't sell it because no ones got any money , you may be able to swap it as i do from time to time . For instance a Positrack and mulcher may be more usefull to you in your area , advertise you will swap the 41 for one . It has worked for me many times , people do not allways have money to spare but allways have something to swap . I had a truck and a small excavator that were doing nothing so i virtually swapped them both for my excavator which is making money .
I dont owe a dime on it the first month i worked it paid for itself its just nice to have a tractor of this size and in good mechanical condition if and when the time comes it would take alot to rent one same size probably 20,000 mth or more and around here nobody rents them that big you would have to lease one like the power plants do for use on the coal piles. Anybody got any Harley factory xr750's 1972-1980
i had an fl 12, bought it when i moved here 2 years ago, it was old and a bit rough looking however it went well and it had tons of power for it;s size, pushed really well,sold it after i did some clearing with it. i dont think yarramundi has changed much since you were here,we live on 46 acres in a dead end street next to a national park, it is nice, very quiet but close to everything, only 1 hour from sydney, we have heaps of kangaroos, not unusual to see 10 to 20 roos grazing within 100 to 200 metres from the house.
that's interesting about the termites and fungal growth, i have a number of large dead trees on my place which are surrounded by scrub regrowth from where it had been cleared years ago, i wondered what had killed the big trees, do you think that is what killed my dead trees, i also have some dying trees, most of the tree is dead however some brabches still have live leaves on them.
Fiat, makes sense on Freesen/UCM. they are down state boys and since our good governa is a city boy who plays well with city donors, i get the sense they are hungery. that and how broke our state is, if you arent fixing bridges the last couple years there hasnt been much to do as far as roadwork. your right though, if there are only 10 fit days the month of february, they'll figure it out and make it happen. i'm a little surprised that your short work, do you do any ag work? 41b would be pretty good sized for that kind of stuff. but with a wet 2008 theres been a lot of dirtwork done to get things back in order in this area. just a thought.
clearing I DONT REALLY DO ALOT OF FARM WORK HOWEVER I DID A NEW LAND DRAINAGE DITCH LAST MONTH 3300' LONG 15' FLAT BOTTOM 1/10th FOOT OF FALL PER 100 FT USED D8K WITH TRIMBLE GPS IT AVERAGED 4' DEEP THAT WAS A NICE JOB ABOUT 3 MILES FROM MY HOUSE. JUST BID A JOB IN QUINCY IL. LAST WEEK HAVE TO BID ONE IN LINCOLN IL. AND ONE IN PEORIA THIS WEEK COMING. WHERE IN ILLINOIS ARE YOU LOCATED.
arenzville, one town down from bluffs, il. the birthplace of freesen's. you can honk on the way down I-72 matter of fact, where i work, one of the orginal freesen founders works. he is part time, works for the fun of it. great guy. yeah i bet there is work in lincoln after that "microburst" (sorta like a tornado???) went through there from mackinaw. guess it torn stuff up.
G'day Pete , it could well be the reason . But it could also be caused by Die Back from beetle strike . Do you see Yellow Tail Cockatoo's chewing at your young trees looking for beetle larvae ?
gidday reg, we do have cockatoos, they are white with yellow crest on their head, i believe they are called sulphur crested cockatoos, there are a lot of them in this area, we have a lot around our place however i think that has more to do with me feeding them wild bird seed daily.
It's only the Black Cockatoo's with the Yellow tails that eat the beetle larvae . They are very destructive , they will shred a young gum tree to it's middle to get the grub . Next time the wind blows the tree breaks off and falls . I have selectively cleared my place , leaving trees 50' apart . It looks like a park but now the Cockies are picking on my kept trees .
black cockatoos are rare here, i am trying to achieve a park like look, have done that with some of the property however the local council like ugly useless scrub,especially on my place and other private properties, i notice no council land is covered with scrub, they have some or no trees and are reguarly mowed, it seems i have to provide enough trees and scrub for all to greenies to admire.
Land clearing I've done quite a bit of land clearing using scrub chain. Everyone has different ideas how do do this but we always put the smaller dozer on the inside so that it can go around any large trees too big for it to handle plus if there are hidden gullies etc it is easier to use the larger tractor to pull the smaller one out than visa versa. The larger tractor then has to handle all the large trees on the next lap. I assume both dozers are going to be fitted with tree spears to help in handling the larger trees. We also have cutter bars fitted to our stick rakes to pull out most of the small suckers. You carry a bit more dirt when raking but you get a much cleaner job. Cutters bars fitted to rakes are not so good in wet soil. I would think 200' of chain would be plenty. If the scrub is really big try not to pull from rippers as it makes it hard to steer. If you have thick scrub this will keep the chain up and you can pull larger trees out but if the larger trees are scattered and the chain is on the ground then this makes for tough going. 50 acres is not a very big paddock to clear and those two dozer should get over it pretty quick. We pulled 6500acres in one go a couple of years back. Didn't rake it though!! Good luck firetrack
Chain length. Hi, Firetrack. Welkum too ther 4um. Good to have some-one else here who's done a bit of chaining. I too did a bit chaining in my mis-spent youth. Everything from mallee and sand plain scrub to tall timber with everything from D4's to D8's. I never did get to use a ball 'cos by the time I started doing it, folks had woken up that the ball snapped a lot of trees off instead of pulling them out of the ground. We used to work our chain length on the basis of the width of cut we could handle plus an extra 100 feet for each tractor. When using 2 x 270 hp D8's pulling mallee or scrub country, we would be cutting anything up to 400 feet wide which would see us using 600 feet or a bit more of 2 1/2" chain. We found that anything much under that 100 feet of chain for each tractor over and above the cut would see D. R. Sends being pulled sideways and we had to work more on the steering clutches and brakes to stay on course. Not a good look, especially when you can't see your buddy 400 feet away through the bush and you're relying on the hang of the chain to tell you how well you're keeping pace with him and roughly how your cut width is going. We often tied long sticks to the front canopy legs with rag flags on the tops to help us keep track of each other in the scrub - didn't always work. Then we'd go into a heavy timber job where we were only 30 - 50 feet apart and could see each other most of the time. Sure made a change. We shortened the chain for those jobs, down to maybe 300 feet. With those 2 x D8H's and 600 feet of chain, we took down 6,000 acres in 5 x 13 hour days on one job, 1,200 acres a day, nearly 100 acres an hour. That's fairly cheap clearing, especially when the farmer can put a running fire over it and then plough it without raking. Cutter bars were pretty much unknown in those days, mid-1960's to early 1970's. Ah, those were the days. LOL.
Land clearing Deas Plant - the good old days, not sure they were that good with some of the older tractor comfort levels. We used Komatsu D60(with D80 motor) and D7E to pull the 6500 acres. This job was at Aramac(north of Barcaldine) D60 had plenty of power but was too light as some of the deseert ghost gums hang on pretty well. I currently use D4H series 11 to build and maintain firetracks for state gov't in the Fraser Coast area. It has PAT blade and rippers and is about the right size for the job as it plenty of plate on the ground and handles the wet areas well. After reading some of the threads here I'm sure half of these guys have only read about dozers and not done any hours on them. I wouldn't like to emply some of these guys at all as to my way of thinking they have no clue. I've worked in PNG, Solomons, Vanuatu, Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines and Thailand - not always as operator - so I've seen a bit of country being cleared and developed. Australians are certainly the most efficient and most innovative in making attachments to suit jobs - Phillipinos are pretty good operators but can be rough. Rest of them you wouldn't on your machine. Regards
So is the job going yet?
they better be wrapping up. cuz its suppose to get to single digits and negatives on the low side till the weekend. that'll drive the frost pretty deep....
No the job has not started yet but it should go sometime soon. Kmb83 your not that far from me I bid the Walmart in Beardstown last year but had no luck and from what I was told the guys that got the job moving the earth looked like a bunch of fresh monkeys off the boat.
There's a 90' length of anchor chain listed on the GSA auction page if someone's interested...probably not long enough for chaining trees but might be useful. http://gsaauctions.gov (under construction equip)
fiat, slow response on my part. your right, beardstown is next door. there is a big (18,000 head/day) packing plant so there is a wide cultural draw to the area. say like needing to speak: spanish, chinese, or kenyan at the local high school? what kind of help the wally world contractor got is anybody's guess. from the looks of their equipment i would say a middle of the road to low ball type outfit for that kind of work. stuff was older looking, sorta beat up. the last mental image i have of driving by was being fascinated they were working as it had just rained and it was a muddy mess. but who i am i to talk i got a '72 D5 and a '94 320L hoe.... then again i aint trying to bid wally world jobs, just keep the ditches clean for me and a neighbor or 2. the wally world in jacksonville, that outfit got it done. they needed the whole jobsite just to park the equipment. guess thats whats needed when you build in the middle of a natural creek bottom hows "now you see them" (UCM) now you dont, getting along on that clearing project? jan to feb was not a good time to work dirt in this area....
So are they working on it yet? How is it going?
no not yet i will let you know asap
Was wondering what the weather is like there? Hmm do they need a dozer operator?
its thunderstorming and around 60-70 today the ground is a quagmire really deep mud with the heavy freeze coming out of the ground and they have started the job is going to be a real mess probably good thing its not mine Freesen has the power to control those who hired them in a way that they wont have any penalities for stupidity they will control what days they can work and so forth.
Get some pictures.
clearing yeh pictures i will try to get up to SPRINGFIELD to get them photos soon right now im trying to fix machine shed door that strong strait winds blew down by the way President Obama just arrived in town for ABE LINCOLNS 200th birthday party Happy birthday Honest ABE.
Well went by the site and all i could see were some cut down trees by chain saw and just about 3' left standing this was only in selected areas i could see where they piled up the trees i piles and also noticed there track marks but i did not see any yellow iron i bet they quit for now do to the weather and ground conditions there was no machines in site and no silt fence put up yet or the rock staging area (parking lot) like i said before Freesen INC. will get their way.
Yeah if its a deep swampy muddy mess it will be slow clearing. 3 foot stump? What diameter are the trees? So what are they doing selling the wood for fire wood? I know a logger that has a big job but no one wants to buy the wood.
the stump was lef 3'tall i guess they probably cut some trees for fire wood as those trees were looked about 8 to 10" diameter
Why so high for such a small tree?
I always tell my clients to leave them that height . Makes them easy to plick out with the excavator . Also , in long grass you can see them before they dissembowell your machines .
My favorite for clearing is a rome plow or k/g blade.They work well on midsize and large dozers.I use one with the 16b and love it.watch out for suface rock outcropings in my area.Excavater works good to when the ground starts getting soft on the bigger trees.
Just found out that Freesen is not going to do this job the city has taken it upon their- selves i dont know what happened with that maybe they are going to cut all the trees with chain saws.
oh buddy.... is this is actually city workers or fellas trying the orange teletubby fashion statement? actually as i type this up, i'm sayin blago/burris/ryan/(insert illinois politian) can work on digging those stumps out..... ha
So they lost the contract? Or the city is just doing the logging?
No they thru out the contract and decided to try it theirselves i heard the engineers estimate was only $150,000.00 and the bid was 500,000.00 and another was 900,000.00 thats your dumb ass engineers for you always think they know more them school boys they dont have a clue you dont get your feet wet in the office behind the desk.
You need A KG Rome blade
Chain saws......what a dumb idea, and 3' stumps.....:Banghead seriously, I have cleared alot of land in a very timly fasion, unfortionaly I do not think I have a single picture. BTW, the worst job I have ever done was 50 acres of pine trees
big price changes from state to state in southern iowa that job would have been done for around 50000.00.it would have been more work in iowa, due to heavy clay soils the rootballs would have lots of clay with them causing lots of big holes to fill.if i really want to make some money i need to move!
I think my Boss gets 1000-1200 per acre, but all we do is cut it down, shove it to the bottom , and burn it. Of course, we have to yo-yo most of our stuff, as we live in the Hills. The BIG Iron comes right behind us, and Big Iron don't CARE about stumps. A D-11 thinks a stump is just some sort of Impurity in the ground. KY Jim
Wow. I can't believe I read this entire thread. Educational and entertaining at the same time. Without the time constraints it may well have been in the $150 000 range. It really sucks when so much time is put into planning and bidding a project and then the vendors turn around and cancel. fiat41b, Where's some pics before you sell the dozer