I've been dipping my toes in the land clearing water here recently and I'm just looking for some tips and advice from guys who do it every day. This is a side job for me, I already work a full time job but with the hours that I work there I can definitely swing another gig. I started running a 953 for a guy and liked it so I bought a truck and trailer, he furnishes the loader and we split the rate. I've worked a few jobs so far and everything has went pretty good minus the obvious break downs and what not. But a question I keep having is, do you guys burn the brush piles yourself while still green or come back later after everything has dried down? If you do burn them, how do you charge for that? I pushed a thickly overgrown quarter mile fencerow out for a lady and she wanted me to bury it all after I already bid the job. I pretty much told her that I don't even know how to bid how long that would take, plus we were in a flat open field, nowhere to really get dirt from without going straight down. Which would mean digging a 10 foot deep hole 100x80. I could see burying it if you had a hillside to work with and not an enormous amount of brush to bury but I didn't feel like I could get that done without having a ton of time in it. I know there's lots of work out there and I'm motivated to go get it, just looking for some advice to help grow the business. I want to do the best work I possibly can, while keeping costs low. And If this has already been covered posting the link will help out too. Thanks!
You could use a burning sloop. It's a big steel skid you dump the brush in. Some people set them up with a big burner and a large fan to basically make a huge incinerator. I think most let the pile dry out and burn in the winter but a big enough fire will burn the green stuff. The other issue is if the county allows burning and what permits and safety measures need to be put in place. You could dig a hole and bury the brush but that would be easier with a hoe and then you have to figure out what to do with the big pile of dirt. http://www.a1-cats.com/component/rdautos/detail/21-miscellaneous-burning-sloop-30-ft-burning-sloop https://www.ccerc.net/photo-gallery-2/sloop10-018/
When we clear, we typically bury the stumps or haul/dump them in a spot we can't farm. The brush gets wind rowed and burned. We typically do our land clearing in the winter so brush is dryer, but it's still fairly green. We don't wait for it to get any dryer, we just do what we have to to get it to burn down. A leaf blower works good for stoking fires up too. Building a fire with pallets or dry wood helps to get things lit off. A blower really makes a difference in how hot the fire burns. A pit burner will burn anything once it's going
Better check with county and state officials before you burn any brush pile. There are a lot of state and county burn laws/permits you usually have to deal with.
X2, Mowing Man, X2. Local regs will get you, specially if an A-hole neighbor reports you!
Dont even think about burning, you will here sirens before you think of anything else!
Owner of my company is reclearing old farm land to farm again he burns it in a pit with one of those air burners, we did have a mishap though and burned up a brand new cat rental excavator
I like the idea of the burning sloop, seems pretty efficient that way you could get it going while you're there. I've also heard that brush piles burn pretty good around like day 7 after being pushed out. Apparently they off gas and that helps with getting a good fire going. I can't confirm or deny this, just what I've heard. I just hate clearing out a thick patch of trees and getting everything all graded back out just to leave a big nasty brush pile for the customer to deal with. But I also can't hardly hang around for two or three days burning brush piles as a complimentary service. So I'll do some looking into that. Thanks for the tip.
Yeah I bet clearing land in the winter when there is less moisture in the brush would help alot as far as getting it to burn down. A leaf blower is a good idea, hadn't thought about that. That pit burner looks pretty slick, maybe one day when I really get to rolling. Thanks for the tips.
With my full time job, I'm actually very familiar with the city that I work in ordinance on burning. I'll just say it'd be very ironic to get the fire department called on me. Haha. I'll check into the burn permits, thanks!
You didn't read the 2nd post? If you have everything in place and all the permits there's nothing a neighbor can do. "The other issue is if the county allows burning and what permits and safety measures need to be put in place".
I am on a 70 acres so far brush and mostly smaller junk timber clearing job now (when dry weather permits restart) with my D6C and a JD 790ELC hoe. I clear with the hoe, push it up with the 6, let it set for a couple of weeks, burn and tend it as far down as it will go, let it cool and sift it back out with the hoe and push that back up. If enough is left, I'll reburn, if not, I cut a trench what I think is bigger than the burned pile, push it into the cut and level back over it. I am working by the hour (no way I'll ever bid a job) so I just keep the clock running at my normal rate and add in a little bit for handwork lighting piles. The owner had grass planted last summer over the 40 acres I finished clearing in 2017.
I was responding to the OP, not you...
Actually you were responding to mowingman not the OP.
When I used to burn, I would dig a rectangular pit about 4'-6' deep with a trench running off one side. Pit size is dictated by the size of the job. At the head of this trench, I would place my blower (former city leaf vacuum T-VAC run off tractor pto as a blower). The air from the blower will pretty well follow up the trench or you can add metal culvert pipe if you need to direct the air better. A small 12 volt fuel pump that puts out about 50 psi and run through a couple sections of 1/2" black pipe with a METAL sprayer tip on the end will provide atomized diesel fuel to stoke that fan fed fire. You can reset the metal pipe into the fire as needed and pull it out with ease. You want a flow rate of about 10 gph so a 5 gal bucket of diesel will last 30 minutes. If you use more than 1 bucket of diesel, you are doing it wrong. I want to burn while I'm on site. I don't have patience to wait for things to dry. I've started fires in downpours with this method and I burn it as fast as I can pull it and put it into the fire. When the burning is done, roll the sides of the pit over the remains and the job is done clean with minimal disturbance. You should only need the diesel spray to get things rolling along and then fan as required to keep it hot. Another method I've used is cribbing up my brush piles on cross stacked logs to allow natural air entrainment as the fire burns. This can only be done with a track hoe so you have enough reach to get it up high. This results in an incredibly hot and fast fire without added fans. You should be able to start this in a pit with incoming air trenches to keep things cleaner. The key to any burning is maximum airflow - the faster you get that oxygen to the fire, the faster, hotter and cleaner it will burn.
People tend to assume brush clearing includes making the brush disappear. You have to tell them that the bid is to move brush from point A to point B and making brush vaporize is extra. Around here the burning laws allow for un-permitted burning during the month of April. Loggers sometimes pile brush with the stipulation that they will come back and burn it next year or even the year after. Some species of wood take forever to dry with the bark on.
Yes I learned that lesson from that job in particular and made it very clear on the last couple jobs. The last job I worked on was about 8-10 acres and he was more than happy with manageable sized brush piles that he could burn and push up with his tractor.
Digging the burn pit seems like a good efficient way to handle the brush, then if you have any dirt from pushing trees it all goes in one spot. Good to hear that you could pretty well burn while clearing with this method, because I am also short on patience. Sounds like I need to invest in a fan.
I have tried my hand at pushing little piles into a natural trench that I dug out a little extra to cover them and that part where you said "trench bigger than the pile" is very important. Haha. Can turn into a mess in a hurry when you just have a general purpose bucket on a 953. I also like to hear that you never bid a job because in this line of work it seems like everyone wants to know to the dollar amount and then they want to hold you to it. After I bid the first job and made enough to cover fuel I decided that I'm sticking to the hourly rate and I'll just keep them updated as I go. Since I'm mainly working for farmers and smaller jobs right now that seems like the fairest way to do it. Here's another question, do you call utility locating services on a job that size? How do they mark it?
Locate utilities on ALL jobs regardless of size or location if you are digging below grade level. Once you've given them the time to locate anything on the site, you are then in the clear regarding any damages to utilities that were not marked. You should be able to dial 811 nationally these days for utility location services. It won't cost you anything and it will release you from liability. It IS the law, too.
I stack green trees and leave them for 2 years. Than burn and bury whats left. sometimes if there is dead trees I can burn right away but normally they are green. No burning permits needed here. just need to be smart about the conditions around you. Burying a huge pile of brush and wood just settles and causes problems for years. ALWAYS I REPEAT, ALWAYS CALL FOR LOCATES. Don't trust someone when they say there is nothing out there. Land owners favorite saying is "I have lived here for 40 year and there is nothing dug in here." They always forget about the utility that was ran across there property 25years ago until you hit it. You will be done before you even get started if you hit something expensive to fix. Its easy to do online. takes me less than 10 minutes to do most of mine.
Different counties in MO have different permit requirements, with any county with a volunteer FD it is a GOOD Thing to contact Well Ahead of Burn day and agreeable with them As that burn time as well not ever leaving a smoldering pile of burning whatever unattended. Have seen brush piles on farms smoldering for days before the fire either extinguished itself, was put out or was spread out to put out and buried.
brush piles on farms smoldering for days before the fire either extinguished itself, was put out or was spread out to put out and buried. I can attest to that. I went into a pile to sift that had been burned for likely 2 months and halfway through the pile I had flames coming up beside me. The core can stay smoldering for a LONG time. I'm on a 2,500 acre bottomland cattle ranch and my site was down to dirt so no problems letting one completely burn out.
To each his own. I quoted Mowingman, while referring to the OP. As My grandfather usedta say, "you'd complain, if they hung you with a new rope!".
I have called dig right for the jobs that I have done this far, but I didn't know how it worked on jobs that were so spread out. Good to know.
All the suggestions sound complicated. I push the brush up with my dozer to the trackhoe which piles it as high as it can reach. If its green trees that I've pushed over in the last week I throw a tractor tire under it. Take a paper towel light it throw it on the edge and take a 3 gallon pump up sprayer full of diesel and start spraying the towel and tire. Poke it up once a day till its burnt down. I've had a fire going 3 months on my job. I love the huge clouds of white smoke green trees put off. I don't even call in a controlled burn. Just let it go.
burn baby burn
While tires do work great!!! around here and many other places it's highly frowned upon(illegal) to use them.... so if you don't want the evidence in the pile make sure you thread a length of haywire through any tires that *might* happen to get in the pile that ways you can retrieve the carcass(evidence) after the burn
I've got a bead on a used gas powered fan for $200 and I also planned on getting a pump sprayer to soak with diesel and oil. Going to dig out a big trench with the trackloader and put the fan at one end. Then just continuely push into the trench with the fan going for the green stuff.
Fellow Missouri man I see. Nice!
Bias ply tires = no evidence.
Yes but unfortunately around here most all you find are SB's
I do a lot of tree clearing jobs. Always, always cut the stumps off! Any dirt in the pile can ruin a fire so keep it as clean as possible. Stack all the trees the same way don’t just throw them in a pile and think that will work. I’ve redone jobs where contractors have done that and the farmer has wasted hundreds or a thousand dollars on fuel to get it to burn. As long as you stack them all in the same direction and keep pushing the pile so it’s as tight and the higher you can stack the pile the better. Not sure if you have an Excvator with thumb but that’s the best way to do it. All I do is figure out which way the wind is blowing (start fire so the wind blows it into the pile) back my pickup up to the pile with my fuel tank light and piece of paper on fire and put my finger over the diesel fuel nozzle and spray the fire and let it spread! I don’t care how wet or green it is it should only take 10 gallons max to get a good fire going if you did it right!
I used to do the thumb over the nozzle.... but it wastes so much fuel especially at over 3 bucks a gallon!!! a small pump up sprayer will start quite a few piles or get yourself a weed burner torch and a propane tank also like several have said keep the piles clean!!!
It does waste a bit of fuel but that’s the last of my worries! Another thing that works great is to get a cheap manual nozzle and weld a 4 ft extension on the end and weld the end shut and drill two small holes into it. That works nice also and let’s you shoot it out further! Sort of a pain to change nozzles but with couple wrenches and pipe dope only a 5 min deal
I just run an older 953 with a gp bucket on it. But I always rake the rootball off over the hole that it came out of. This is a picture of of the brush piles that I have been making in comparison with the height of the trackloader. Not as high as an excavator can stack but still seems like a pretty good vertical stack. Then I also attached a photo of a before and after finished product because why not
Nice finished job, Josh. What is done to prevent erosion ?
Up in smoke like a cheech and chong party
Thanks! And sprayed with graze-on then reseeded. That picture was from this winter, haven't gotten any pictures after the grass came back on. There was a little erosion from the record rain fall that we received this year but the grass seemed to help keep the soil in place once it came on.
I bought 5 acres which was overgrown with crap trees. Did our first burn on Jan 1st...and meet the fire department. I had called...but some ass turned me in. https://photos.app.goo.gl/TrCzGjvivJGJTa8i8 - FD Pic https://photos.app.goo.gl/ksBwL8iM2LxYhR7c9 - Follow up video The wood was green...but that's where we use 'vitamins' D & T. Vitamin T is a large, round, black pill that really gets things going btw.
Vitamin T... Now that's funny!!!!! We got a burn coming up this next week... the land owner says they gave him a permit to burn clear through the 4th... we'll see what happens cause it's pretty dry around here. I'll get some pics
My property is outside the city limits...and believe it or not, San Antonio has become complete jack asses about trees on commercial lots. They mark them & will fine or hold up development if you take down even the shittiest looking scrub brush. I plan on being a commercial property, and in the county I can basically designate myself as such as long as no one says anything and I have appropriate land size. So when the city inevitably annexes me...I'm ready. Given that I'm not about to ever have a conversation about a $5000 fine to remove a ****** tree...I just clear cut the entire 5 acres. I believe if you love trees that much...you should just buy the place. If you don't want to do that...then STFU. What I got 'in trouble for' was burning within an hour of dusk...which the county frowns upon. I had the entire place around the fire as dirt. It was cold and wet, I spent $40 on diesel getting it going...and even then it might have taken a couple vitamin T's...I don't really recall. The little brush jumper truck drove by & then backed up with his lights on first. I just figured they were out doing a tour to get out of the station and were going to check in...not big deal. By the time I pulled the excavator away from the pile & got out...there was the pumper truck. As I walked over to the Cpt I said "Oh thank God you're here! As you can see...we've got an out of control inferno on our hands" He smiled back and said 'Yea, I can see that'. "I'm guessing this wasn't what you were expecting from the call to came out here?" ' No sir...no it wasn't' That's when he told me in the county you've got to stop burning an hour before dusk...and we were there. I told him how much issue I had with getting is started...and then threw in "And if I can't burn after dark...how am I going to get rid of all these tires?" I burned whenever I wanted after that. I think they realized I knew what I was doing and more than responsible & capable enough to not have problems. They said they were going to come out later that day and put out my fire...or make sure I had it put out...they never came back.
In michigan during winter snow on ground no burn permits or call ins needed, but when oil wells are on the 280 acres i used to take care of when i lived there i started calling in to the local volunteer fire department to give them a heads up , becuase aparently all the smoke and steam on a calm nite going straight up in the air and then being lit up from the flames looks like an oil well fire from the road . I told them if i call in and give specific which gate to go into to 911 there is a problem lol .
It's kind of funny in Washington State, King County. If you live east of Highway 18 you can burn small amounts of brush and debris with a permit from the local fire department until May. After that all burning is prohibited I think until November. If you live west of Highway 18 no burning is allowed at all. The state generally has prohibited all burning for clearing and that is why there are so many companies with mobile grinders. I don't complain about it because I can use a burn barrel to reduce my waste stream into landfills most of the time while the bulk of the population of the county is required to pay for garbage service to pick up even storm debris. There are so many greenies around here that the fire department gets run ragged every time a whiff of smoke is detected. Even though there is a permit on file at the station for a site, if there is a call in, the fire department has to mobilize an engine to check it out.
We can burn in one county on top of the ground from Oct. to May. Next county over we can burn from Oct. to May but there has to be a permit, air curtain, pit and inspection. The surrounding counties you can burn all year. Back in the day it was common when a contractor cleared a lot before the loader was off the lowboy there were a few used tires dropped off. A bale of straw or newspapers stuffed in the middle soaked in the diesel - light it up and when the tire gets going good, roll the greed brush over on it. This was usually done with either a 941, 951 or 955 track loader, there were no excavators to speak of back then. Now we have burn restrictions, permits and minimum 500' distance from any structure BS to deal with but the local brush dump is doing well... Last pit burner job I did - No this is not textbook air curtain operation but we were trying to meet the May 1 burn ban.. This is where our new yard is now. We cleared the brush during the summer and it was nice and dry. Used the pit method without an air curtain which works well. Poking the fire up before quitting time. I like to keep a substantial log to poke the fire with in order to keep the bucket out of the heat as much as possible.
Good idea on the log! Sadly the TB180 Takeuchi I had didn't have a thumb at the time...of course I ended up having to put one on for the buyer. : ( But at the time I had a couple people wanting it...and half didn't want a thumb and I couldn't find a used one to steal. Would have made everything 100 times easier. Burning is the best way to clear...but unfortunately too many idiots F it up for everyone else. When the FD came out I had 120+ feet of black dirt all around the pile or wet grass. Had a track loader & the TB180, but thanks to my new neighbors F'n crackhead kid, no electric...or water. : ( (He stole every bit of copper from my place and every other one within 5 miles he could get. But his dad & I have an understanding...I've told all the neighbors if it's not me or my Tundra...call the cops or shoot them dead. And in Texas both are acceptable. And I told him if I catch anyone out there my call to the cops will be to bring out the coroner. I will not abide a thief). Anyway, I told them I didn't have water (I was honest...you're supposed to have water supply) but I could put out more fire with machines than any garden hose. He agreed...but then said..."Well the law says....". "I just remembered! I've got water in the truck...two bottles!" "I guess that counts" "Law and order every time for me Sir!" That was the last time they were out. But I get it...most people are morons and ruin it for everyone.
In Arkansas all you have to do is call in a controlled burn. I burn all the time on jobsites and never have anyone show up. Lots of times I don't even call it in. One job I set around 60 acres of almost clear cut forest on fire on top of a rocky ridge. Watched the forestry Commission bring out their 450j dozer and the operator bounce to death trying to cut a fireline around it while I had an operator pushing with a 6 less than an 250 yards away. There was no need to even cut a line. We had cleared a 60 foot wide utilities right of way on one side and built a 2 lane wide road on the other side which had it completely surrounded .They claimed the fire was out of control but never issued a fine. I think they got worked up over nothing. I've never had a fire get out of hand but I don't burn when it's late summer and everything is kindling unless we get rain.
You guys are really doing it! My 6 acres had about 2 acres really grown over with honeysuckle and in the 3 years we've been there we've cleared the honeysuckle and I've knocked down a good 20-30 dead (lots of ash death) trees and I thought I had some piles. I'm just outside Dayton city limits and no one, other than my neighbor getting grumpy over floating ash on his cars, no one has said a word about some pretty decent burns. I did learn a lesson about grass fires in my 2 acre hay field in the back. The lesson was don't start a fire next to dry grass. I got lucky (and some melted shoes) and we were able to keep it under control but it could have gotten ugly. Thanks for all the tips above to help me in the future. Vitamin T is the best! I've also been real happy with a small pump sprayer full of diesel.
If i dig a burn pit, we leave the root balls on. We always burn green too.
I do the same as jjhdozing. I’ll start a pile while I’m running the dozer or excavator, that way I can watch it, but normally don’t charge anymore since I’m there anyway running the equipment. I will add the fuel used for the brush burning to the bill. I started out with a 955h cat, then a 175c dresser loader. You could quickly dig a long trench, not too deep, push the trash in it, especially the fence. Once it burns, any fence or nails can be covered to keep from causing issues with tires, bush hogs, and animal hooves. I noticed mention of tires, but no one mentioned used motor oil. It works good as well. Throw a little diesel on it to get it going, it’ll fire up most green stuff. Alabama has a call in permit system, same for Tennessee. But they’re both easy to get. Be smart, have a large clear area around the pile and shouldn’t have any problems.
My wife wanted to start a fire Monday after it'd been raining a bit and she wasn't sure how it'd go. I busted out about a half gallon of diesel and added about a half gallon of used oil dumped them both in a garden sprayer, hosed down the pile and it was up and gone within about an hour. Works great!
Yep, done that too and sometimes I even mix in whatever other 'oils' I have laying around... some really thick some thin... it's all good
In the old days, nothing was better than a worn out tire and a mix of gas and diesel. The tire was put into the face of a pile built with a crane and clam shell bucket. The mix was installed and depending on how "brave" you were, you used a stick match and a quick throw. Other times when you knew there was too much gas in the tire, a flare was used from a bit farther away. The tire was covered up with a couple of bucket loads of brush. The tire would smoke for about ten minutes until the brush caught on and the black smoke would disappear. You would get a mixture of white smoke and heat. I watched my dad have five or six piles burning at once with flames sixty feet in the air. A lot cheaper than all the diesel to run a hog.
It is safer not to burn but will take longer. The fire could also burn neighboring structures or forest so contractors should be really careful. Moreover, the smoke could negatively impact the environment as we work for great projects, let's not forget to ensure that we cannot do further or more devastating damage to the environment.
I love burning cedar.
Y
Burn baby burn!!!!!! We have a few coming up Can't wait to toast some trees!
Do volcanoes or lightning need a permit?
My SPAM alert is pegging the charts on that one.
Way to go, Buzzkill!
Ha! Weird environmentalist spam!
I've been at this for a minute or 2 - probably just good ol' fashioned China crusher spam..
Got a small trimmings pile ready to go from the sawmill the other day
I cut these trees in March and hauled most of them home for firewood. I dug the stumps in mid May and had this fire at the end of May. A 50 ft. diameter or smaller pile is easy to get a permit for. Clean gravel soil really helped here. In two burns the stumps were about gone. No tires used. A bit of Big D accelerant was all it took to start it. A no cost burning permit is needed here in the summer. None is required when there is snow cover on the ground. We are required to call or email in the permit number after 5 PM each day and get a authorization number before burning. Fire is supposed to be out by 8 AM but have never been bothered when it continues to burn.
Fires have to be out by a certain time? Boo! I imagine it's not uncommon for these fires to last days and weeks, like ours do. Mine typically aren't giant roaring fires but they smolder and stoke up very nicely for a while after starting them.