I am looking at 4 different 2002-2004 model Land Rover Defender 110's with the TD5 diesel engine and a manual 5 sp. Me and a good friend are looking at going in 1/2 each on it. I am sure some of our members overseas have experience with them - the good, the bad and the ugly. Parts and service will be available through a local dealership. Always wanted one, just never owned one. This would be a second vehicle, not in the US. A couple of pics of the ones under consideration, all of them are in the same price range. - 2003 with a winch 2002 with a winch and lights 2002 outfitted nicely no winch but has a bull bar and a nice roof rack 2004 pretty plain
I have always heard that there absoulute tanks, and alot of foriegn militarys use them so they must be pretty tough and reliable. I wish I could get one.
You are looking at one of the World's Best "Off the Shelf" Off Road working vehicles. Bear in mind that its sole purpose is to keep going when you beating the hell out of it. Aside from that it has not a lot of purpose...cause they are not a good on-road vehicle, uncomfortable, shocking interior and generally poor ergonomics. Earlier Defenders had some Gearbox & Diff problems but by the time the TD5 arrived it was fairly sorted. The TD5 strengths are torque and economy. I know guys with these who pull 30mpg loaded to the gunwhales. It aint no race car though. Here's some tips (pretty much for any Land Rover) In the Defender, include in your budget, removing the front seats and running over them with an 8 tonne double drum sheeps foot roller so no other sucker will be tempted to use them. Go got practically any other bucket seat in the world and install it 2 inches rearward of the originals so you get some leg room. Offset the driver seat 1 1/4" toward the centre of the vehicle and fit a slightlyt smaller steering wheel to compensate for sitting slightly off-line with the steering wheel. This is so everytime you go to wrench the beast around off-road or in a carpark you don't smash your elbow on the drivers door window sill. Then remove the great big centre console box and world's most annoying hand brake lever down at your ankle (you can give these the double drum roller treatment as well). Go find any normal centre console mount handbrake mechanism (something like a Japanese truck wrecker will have something) and install that between the seats. Then build a normal size console to go beside the handbrake and (unless you are already a Dwarf) you will now be able to sit in the cab in reasonable comfort!. The all coil constant 4wd drive system is hard to beat...but the rear coils can benefit from poly air springs (bags) when heavily loaded. Always check the centre diff lock works. If the gearbox has been abused it will be aparent on the test drive. Defenders are commonly "chipped" here to get a little more mid range out of the TD5. There is many Land Rover nut cases around the world and they have lots of clubs and forums...track some down they will tell you all the things to look for....they may not like my advice above though.. Land Rovers...love or hate-em. Its hard to believe that the British built the best 4x4 system in the world...and then put that pile of aluminium crap on top of it
Thanks Squizzy, I was going to hijack the other thread - condolensce on the SVX, maybe several folks ahead on the list don't take delivery. I would love to have one but way over budget, especially for a second, second vehicle. The TD5 diesel is/was not sold in the US and only 500 Defender's were sold in the US back in the '90's only with the gasoline engine. The TD5 gets mostly good reviews other than the purist that doesn't like the electronics, which is something I have to agree with as well. Speed is not only undesirable but can be deadly where this vehicle will be used, hence buy a slow moving battle tank. Actually fuel economy is more important than speed since speed over 90KPH in the straight-a-ways is met by pot-holes as big as the 110 around the corner. Roads are not the best, even the paved ones. The rainy season adds even more "adventure", that's why a winch is important to have on the vehicle. New seats, if the vehicles still have the original, and adjustment of the drivers seat are definitely in the works. I found a website in Europe that makes custom seats for the Defeneder, they are touted as the best.:beatsme I am 6 ' 2" 220'ish so a remodeling is in order.:cool2 The hand brake relocation is a great idea. I was wondering just what to do about that situation. A Japanese wrecker (I am assuming a tow truck) - would that be like a Hino or Izuzu small cab-over truck? Even the old style Toyota Hilux pull out of the dash and turn park brake would be an improvement. I fly out tomorrow and will be down looking at these vehicles next week. What do I look and/or listen for when testing the diff lock. Of course the obvious, but some vehicles have "quirks" that may sound or feel bad but are normal. The 110 in the first pic may be the best buy, the owner just dropped the price considerably from the other or there is something wrong with the locking diff. Any other pointers on looking at a used 110?
Watch for rust. The Bulkhead, and frame outriggers, along with the frame horns, and rear crossmember. These are all susceptible to rust just like the Series trucks, even in dry climates. They also have the dreaded Lucas wiring, and often will have little fiddly bits of electrical that will need sorted out. As far as the Diff Lock, it is tough to diagnose, but the lever should move easy between hi-lo, locked-unlocked. Remember, it doesnt lock the front and rear axle, but rather the center diff. DO NOT drive with the center diff locked on pavement. You will trash the transfer case. Watch the suspension and brakes. The bushings go bad in the suspension arms, and make for loose steering, and bad ride. The brake calipers are very expensive. If the truck has been offroaded hard, you have to watch the axles, and ring and pinion. It is fairly easy to snap an axle shaft. Plan on replacing the axle shafts and buying a spare set. They are fairly easy to change. If the truck has the rear Salsbury axle, this is not so much an issue. The TD5 is a good motor, but the timing chain needs to be changed. If the timing chain goes, you might as well plan on a new motor. The fuel system is also very sensitive to dirt. Keep the fuel filter changed often. The handbrake is not an issue for me, as I am used to them in a Series truck. You will be a little cramped, but you may find it is tolerable. I am 6'2 and 160lbs. I am comfortable in my Series, but I have Defender seats. The Defenders had alot more leg room. Before you go spending a grand on seats, take it for a long trip, you may be surprised. They are tolerable on the expressway, and will cruise at 100km/h pretty easy. Lots of cargo space, and a fair bit of storage.
Land rover mad Well where do I start ?? Hmm firstly general appearance,,the panel below the windscreen would be the first place to check as it was very prone to the dreaded rust ,use a magnet to be sure,with the door open check the pinch point at the back of the bulk head, check along the bottom of the doors very prone to rusting,lift the mats and check the footwells . Then walk to the back of the vehicle and closely check the rear cross member ,on both sides front and back, very rustprone area, then check the chassis rails,for damage and rust ,again all the doors especially the bottoms . On the back axle pop off the two little black plastic caps ,the half shaft and drive hub wear as the splines are unlubricated and wear (expensive).apart from that if a sailsbury is fitted (funny shaped diff pan) it is a bulletproof axle and I have tried and tested them. The transfer box is fairly realiable and the same as the one fitted to the td5 discovery ,may leak a bit but troublefree (LT230).The gear box is an R380 and the earlier ones gave trouble on the layshaft bearings but again if serviced correctly relatively trouble free.check out ashcroft transmissions everything you needed to know about landie gearboxes and axles. The engine well can give trouble if not looked after,has two oil filters,is a commonrail 5cyl with timing chain (100,000miles to change),can blow a head gasket if it overheats so bleed the water system properly.On the injectors the wire harness needs to be changed at 40,000m or the ecu can give grief.(VERY IMPORTANT that) If left run low on fuel the charge pump can give trouble or if water or petrol get at it so be warned. The power steering box can leak out of the bottom seal if the needle bearings in the box wear.If abs is fitted make sure the bulbs are in the dash as the sensors cause trouble and alot of people remove the bulbs as a fix.check the difflock as if it hasnt been used they sieze and if forced the linkage bends.Removing the erg and cat give about 12% more power for small enough money. If you buy drop me a mail and if I can ever be of assistance let me know Stock Play with'em as a hobby.
ecu look under the seat for the ECU remove plug and make sure no oil is present oil runs down wiring harness and buggers the ECU,very common fault
Thats because the injector harness wasn't changed at the right time
Nissan Safari, Toyota Landcruiser, either will elliminate the need for this thread, Land Rover is a synonym for Expensive Trouble. question, what is the difference between a hedgehog and Range Rover? answer, the hedgehog has its pricks on the outside. LOL
yes i know ,but i am trying to give him a way to check ,as it is better to see for yourself ,if it is clean and there is no history of the harness being changed ,you can change it ,if it is oily then its another story :drinkup
other makes valuable input thanks if you belive these have not got problems of their own you still have your BLINKERS on showpony this may be of help CM1995 http://www.defender2.net/forum/
Well if I wanted info on the Landcruiser or Nissan, this thread would not be named Landrover Defender 110 . As far as the need for this thread, let me determine that, thanks.:cool2 To everyone else thank you for their informative responses, got to catch the early flight out.
Hello, another handy little mod for the taller driver is to insert 2 inch spacers between the seat box and the seat runners, and even for the shorter driver like me, give a totally different driving position, allows the seat to go a little further back and makes it a little longer between seas base and peddle top..... The electronic injectors can be known to play up at around the 100k mark but can be reconditioned or replaced new but for a hefty price...... Other than that, what everyone else said... treat the chassis to some nice anti rust coating every now and then, and it should give you years of service, the TD5 is a tried and tested engine now and has a very good reputation... Cheers
I am worried. I have been charging about in my 110 TD5 (chipped from day 1 brand new) and have now done 172,000 miles with it and not done anything to the timing chain, I usualy stick at the 70mph mark on the Motorways, although it has poped upto 110/115 mph a few times (but it just "ant safe" at speeds above90mph) my local Dealer said the chain should be good for over 200,000???. my biggest moan about them is the fuel pump in the tank, dear and made of plastic and a pig to change, other than that its been the best truck for me ever, the engines been trouble free, so has all the other big bits, but its on its 3rd fuel pump, I have tried Land Cruisers but they were to comfortable, I like the crap L/R seats (heated). tctractors ps. is it a big job to fit a new timing chain???
They are good off-road but that's about it. Pretty Poor Spec for the price and Quality Fit. TD5 pretty good unit, Not bag of power but it's a diesel and not a silly 7.0 V8.
I agree, to the point you compare the latest models. The only equivalent to the Defender is the 76 Series Landcruiser with the 4.5 V8. For the privilege of paying $8,000 more for the Cruiser you get to use about 8mpg more, no central locking, no electric windows and a part time four wheel drive system...as well as leaf springs thrown into the deal. For a further $2,800 you can actually get air conditioning in the Cruiser which is standard in the Defender. I think I'd rather spend a few grand messing with the seats and handbrake but each to his own: A really well informed comment
Must be different Down-Under then SQIZ .. The last Defender 110 TD5 I had on hire (2005 with 28k) didnt even Have a Radio Fitted, No Electric's of any sort and Defo No Air-Con. The air would rush in through the driver's door at speed and freeze my leg Ha ha. Apart from all that .. They are Great Off-Road in the slurry and Plenty of room in the back. The rear Door was great compaired to a Pick-Up. Only Problem was the spare bolted to the door. No swing frame, The door would open 90%.
The Defender range was well ungraded in late 2007. The TD5 is gone, has a 2.5 4cyl diesel (basically from Ford) and things like Air-Con standard. Its actually got a real dasboard of sorts from the Discovery range. Never yet seen a 4x4 that would stay dust tight with a spare hanging off the barn door. The Discovery was a complete joke.....about 200 miles of corrugations and the whole door was scrap metal.
Well I got back to the 'states last Sunday and was able to look at two 110's. I test drove the one in pic #3 (white) and was in decent shape. There was oil leaking from the transfer case which raised my eyebrows. The interior was what you would expect for an '02. Transmission shifted well but the clutch felt a little soft. Checked for rust on the door panels and under the windscreen and it looked good. The front right fender had been re-painted but that was the extent of any body work. The interior was in good shape just a few worn edges. There was diamond plating on the front fenders, all the floor boards, front and rear 1/4 panels and skirting down the sides. No power windows or radio (hey only one English station available anyway) but it did have power locks and A/C, which blowed cold. As far as I could tell the unit did not have ABS brakes. This was the first TD5 I have driven and was actually suprised from what I had imagined. The torque curve of that little motor in 3rd gear is nice. 1st gear would be tractor gear and I don't think I would need 5th ever, at least down there. The leg room is sufficient and the hand brake location was tolerable. The seats in this unit were stock vinyl and although I wouldn't want to trek 1,000's of miles in them at one time, were comfortable in their own utilitarian way. The other white one (looks tan because it was so dirty) was beat to hell and back. Not even worth considering for $20K. It is a '02. I also looked at a white '06 with 32K KM that was in mint condition except for a front left turn signal lens that was broken in the aftermarket bull bumper. It had PW, PDL, CD and cloth seats - very nice. It was priced right at $32K which is a pretty good deal but above my price range. If I were to bust the budget this one would be a keeper. The hunt is still on. There is another '02 that I want to look at when I go back. yeah I forgot my camera when I went to test drive:Banghead
those look badasss
The hunt is still on for a Defender. Fortunately this is not one of those need to make today decisions. I have located an '00 Defender 130. This being a crew cab pickup version is interesting. I have not recieved the spec's yet from the owner, it just became available today. Any input from our friends across both ponds on the 130 model? Does the 130 have a more heavy duty suspension since it is a pickup? Is there anything special to look at on the 130? The dog is not included.
More info on the 130 from the owner. They are the second owner, the first owner has the local Honda dealership, interesting they sold Honda's but drove a Landrover. The same mechanic has taken care of the vehicle for both owners and I have his contact info. Waiting on a response on what the milage is. It has a 9K winch, tires 80%, snorkel and all taxes and inspections are paid up to date, which is important as these can be expensive. It has also never been in an accident (so the owner says) and the registation is clean, although I would have our attorney check the plates and registration. The way it works there is any fines (speeding, parking, etc) are levied on the vehicles registration, not the driver. So if you buy one that has any fines associated with it, you are responsible.:cool2 This is an important thing to remember if you let someone borrow your car, you are responsible for the speeding & parking tickets, no seatbelt, etc.... (Although most tickets are handled "on the spot", not advocating that, it's just how it works. It goes like this - Officer says "Speeding ticket $20, no speeding ticket $20. ) My buddy will be flying down on the 13th and will be checking this one out, talk to the mechanic, check the plates and if all looks good, send it to the Rover dealer for a check up. I won't be able to check it out until the middle of June when I go down.
130 freind of mine has a older 130 pick up around 91-92 it has double rear coil,s also has a pto winch ,its a farm truck and is used and abused but is a good work horse cheers graham
CM: The 130 really benefits from a set of Polyair Springs, like these: http://www.4x4store.com.au/Polyair-Red-Series-c-14798.html The 130 didn't have the best turning circle by our standards but if you've been driving something like an F350 you wont notice. The 130 was also a humdinger for water travelling down along the wiring harness to the gizmos under the passenger seat. The 130 chassis is very strong...I think they modelled it off a Leopard Tank..but IFRC there was an attachment point/bracket somewhere that had a habit of breaking...maybe it was a gearbox mount or steering mount...I can't remember. Pre-2002 the gearbox needs a thorough test out as they had some 1st gear problems. The typical way to test was to drive the thing around and around in reverse...at least 500 yards or so and then stop it without braking, slip it into 1st and ease off listening for any clunks or whining noises from the trans.
How did you know? I have a F350 crew cab long bed and the only good thing about the turning radius is I get the wife to drive her car for fancy dinners out since my truck can't park in the tiny spaces and the valet definetely can't drive it. (although fancy dinners out has not been an issue for a while ) Back to the topic. I have always wanted a Defender, there is alot of history and tradition. Since this is not a "must buy today" vehicle I am afforded the opportunity to look around. I really appreciate the advice given since I cannot ride down to the local dealer and test drive one.:Banghead Squizzy the info on the 1st gear issue is dually noted and appreciated - will be checked out on the test drive. Alot of folks talk about the wiring harness on the Defenders, is that something that can be upgraded or just something you have to understand and live with? The poly air springs would be an item worth investing in. Being able to "dial in" the ride is valuable. The reason the 130 sparks my interest is the truck bed. Having a vehicle to haul some cement, furniture, etc is very desirable. Although a 110 may be a better choice...... Sometimes the fun part of finding a vehicle is "looking for it".
I'm pyschic:cool2 As far as I know from Mates in the Land Rover Club the harness just needs sealing up with a bunch of silicon where it goes into the ECU/Cab. I had a set on a Nissan Patrol coil cab with extended body (like the Defender) and they were invaluable. Unfortunatley, Land Rover have stopped making the 130 single cab pick-up. The tray bed was like 11' or something....don't seem them around much...a rare beast that was only here in the original model...the TD4 I think.
Hi CM Have you priced out a set of replacement injectors in case yours go. The TD5 motors had really really really really, really expensive injectors. Something like $1000 each australian when first released. I imagine they are cheaper now but if you have to import them it may hurt. I love defenders. We have a model called the extreme out here in oz and it has all the electronics (TRACTION CONTROL ETC) from the discovery. There is a website downunder called aulro.com.au where they are experts.
Hey Big Dazzler, after you posted I have been searching the net to find out prices on the injectors. I am actually having a hard time finding them.:beatsme I have been researching parts and such and really appreciate the comments from this thread.:thumbsup I have found that the fuel injector harness for the TD5 is 30-40 British pounds or $60-75 USD give or take. Since this is a "project" it has been alot of fun just doing the research. BTW - thanks for the forum link, I am now a member. OK, here are a few Defender's that are available. Some way above the price range but nice to look at anyway. Any thoughts on these used models? http://costarica.en.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=Defender&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max
The 2007 110 is the new model with air-con, lec windows and central locking standard...pretty much the pick of the bunch.
Here you go Cory .
Yeah I know....:yup, although it is also alot $$$. The 110's and 130 have air-con, most of the older ones don't have pw/pdl which is fine by me mostly due to repair issues (electrical stuff is expensive). Radios installed are 50/50 but there is only one English radio station so what the hoo. As long as it has air-con I can survive, although I would love to have a new one, like Iron Horse posted. (reference personal lack of $$$:crying) So we are looking at the 1995 to the early 2000'sh models. I am trying to justify in my head that the 2007 (white one) is the one we really need . How do those prices compare to Europe and Australia?
Judging by the fact used vehicle prices here are dropping faster than Bill Clintons zipper I'd say that 07 is a bit over-priced. If it was 40 grand in Aussie Dollars it would be about right. $40,000 USD will buy this: 2008 LAND ROVER DEFENDER 130 07MY CREW CAB WHITE 4dr Cab Chassis Manual 4cyl 2.4L ; 126kms Wodonga, VIC $49,990 AUD Thats less than 100 miles on the clock...thats not a typo..one Hundred miles But don't give me no heat on current exchange rates. ointhead
No heat from me buddy. They have ridiculous import taxes on new and used vehicles. Comparing models we have in the US, like a petrol Toyota 4-runner, the prices are 15-20% more, the diesel version is more than that. With the shipping and importation taxes, it really limits my choices to vehicles that are in country. Since I have started this thread a few months ago, the prices have fallen down there as well. They were a little late to the global crunch, but are starting to feel it now - some folks just haven't realized it yet. Many of these Defenders have been for sale for a few months, so the prices should be negotiable. I am not in a hurry and afford the luxury of waiting for a good deal. Everything is more expensive down there, especially electrical car parts, appliances and gizmos. Diesel per liter is about 1 USD, petrol is 10% higher, which puts diesel at $3.80 or so a gallon. In the 'states, diesel in my area is $2.20 per gallon. Which brings up another question, I have read that the 110 gets 25 MPG or so (don't ask for a liter per KM conversion ), is this accurate? The roads are not that good, as stated before so normal AUS, UK, US highway speeds will rarely be attainable. The vehicle will not get many miles/KMs put on it either. Most of the driving on-road will average 80KM per hour or so. Off-road I know is a different story and not really worried about that.
Your mpg figures are on the money, in fact you should only do better with moderation of the appropriate pedal. The same donk in the Discovery regularly pulls over 28 mpg with some claiming better than 30...but I don't always believe stuff when people are taking mileage...its like when men are talking about the size of their...........mortgage..they BS a lot
Don't forget when compairing milage figures , an Australian gallon is 4.546 litres and a US gallon is only 3.785 litres .