Is there a chance of having a landclearing forum happening on HEF? The reason I'm asking is that most of us in the landclearing game are using equipment of high horsepower and at times bad reliability for the equipment size. The knowledge of contributors on HEF is astounding (like no other forum), and it would be great to have a descent place for us in this business to converge and share with others. Many years ago there was a lot posted in the forestry forums by people in the landclearing business, both owners and operators but that dwindled away as more forestry guys took over, which is fair enough, but in doing so we lost a great place for us to converse hence the question, can we have our own forum on Heavy Equipment Forums????? Tones PS, I don't want chainsaw threads or how to clear land with a slasher(brush hog), there's plenty of other forums for those folk.
Yair . . . I hear you Tones . To me though one of the attractions of this forum is that all the posts are lumped in together. I skim through the new posts every time I come here looking for land clearing threads but if I want to I can learn about asphalt milling or digging basements or installing pipes below the frost line . . . it's bloody marvellous for an old dinosaur who's speciality of large scale clearing is pretty much a thing of the past. Would you care to elaborate on your comment about poor equipment reliability? Cheers.
Hey guys, I happen to have a land clearing question for those with more experience at it than I. Ive cleared alot of acres of timber for farmers. Around here they plant to the mailbox and cattle need more pasture ground type of work. Dig a hole, tear it out, burn and bury it. I like personally to dig the hole close to the start of the timber, and as i tear out with the excavator throw it behind me towards the hole in nice bunched piles, when i get so far I'll take the dozer and shove the piles into the fire, until its far enough away for another hole if its practical. Nice and clean when i"m done (in my head anyway) haha. If there are different sections that need clearing I like to start and finish 1 section before i move on to the next. In the past year the owner of the very small company i worked for (I was the only employee) told me that i needed to go through and tear out every tree in the broken up 5 acres i had to clear, and then clean it up when i was done. The first section I did my way, The other 3 i did his way and it looked like a Tornado came through and took me forever and a day to clean up. My long winded question is Which way do you all find the most efficient way??? Im all ears to learn new better ways thanks!
Scrub, Most of the equipment for clearing land that is used today comes out of North America or Europe and I'm talking about Forestry Mulchers and Grinders both Tub and Horizontal. Some of it is well build and some just can't handle the conditions we have here in Australia. Business owners I know (my self included)who run this gear have no other forum where there such a great source of knowledge of engines form 100hp to 2500hp, hydraulics including hydraulic transmissions, welding, balancing, etc, etc. and to pass on some of the stuff we've learnt so it becomes a win win for everyone. Mate there is still large scale landclearing going on as I type, it's just done a little differently
DirtBrown, welcome to HEF What sort of timber are you clearing? Is it suitable to be sold for biofuel wood chip, home firewood or even lumber? Why are you burning in holes and not on the surface. Burying timber is a PITA for the land owner in years to when the holes slump in and also you are covering good topsoil with clay. Burning on the surface is a better option but keep the heaps small. Big fires kill the enzymes in the soil and nothing will grow on it for years. My preference is to cleanup as I go unless there is a environazi hanging around then I smash the lot down then cleanup after.
Yair . . . Gotcha Tones. I see where you are coming from . . . I suspect a machine that works fine on Northern Hemisphere timber might have conniptions if asked to gobble into a gnarly old Iron Bark. I see the mulchers used here all the time on excavators, CTLs and skids . . . there was even one setup where they knocked it down with a dozer and mulched it up with a bloody great John Deere running over it on the ground with a PTO driven tungsten toothed drum . . . I am constantly amazed at the lack of production and the costs involved. I assume such nonsense has been foisted on us by the reluctance to burn and air pollution regulations. Eventually we will have the same conditions here as the folks have to comply with in the 'States. Not all bad though for folks like yourself who are moving with the times and getting equipment and knowledge to comply with the new "normal". As a rate payer though it annoys me to see the money wasted chipping up timber and blowing it out on the ground. Main roads or whoever have been widening the clearing down either side of some of the local roads and highways. It took months at an estimated couple of thousand bucks an hour for a crew of traffic control, CTL with grapple, 8 ton excavator with buckets and Mulcher, Chipper towed by a 4x4 Hino, little John Deere with a broom, and half a dozen chainsaws . . . and then a bushfire went through and the wood chip started burning and they had to hire in water trucks. In the "old days" they would have knocked it down and stacked with a D8 in just a couple of weeks. Cheers.
Yep Scrub, most states in Australia and else where have a zero burn policy. That been said rural landowners can greatly benefit by mulching rather than clear and burn. Years ago when I brought my first machine I had never sat on one so I went to a mates place and worked it free. We where 3 years into a drought and I mowed a heap of trees, six mouths later I went back to have a look and the grass had started to come through the mulch and it hadn't rained and the soil below the mulch was damp, the rest of the paddock was a dust bowel. I fully understand where you're coming from but a heap of things in life change and new ideas come along, some get embraced some are rejected, this method I've embraced cause I have seen the real benefits for the landowner. I have also seen the soil degradation of the clear and burn method.
Yair . . . Tones. Good one mate, thanks for the reply. What I don't understand with mulching how do you control the regrowth? Any sort of eucalypt will grow from a ground level cut stump I can't imagine a mulcher would get any better results . . . I really am curious about this. The other problem of course (as I see it) is even if mulching and follow up spraying get a kill it pretty much precludes cultivation unless you go in with a cutter-bar and take out all the stumps. What am I missing? When it comes to large scale clearing we are talking different country and a different time and place. I'm thinking back in the sixties, a couple of thousand acres of box/brigalow/belah. Put it on the ground with two three hundred horsepower tractors at 30 to 40 acres an hour then go in with the 35 foot rakes at 3 to 8 acres an hour . . . a week or ten days so to burn and rake the heaps out and it's ready for the plough. Plenty of that went on. Did one job of ten thousand acres and the Cocky was ploughing and Pederick raking and had a crop of wheat up before we'd burnt the heaps. We came back the following year and finished it and he reckoned the crop had just about paid for the whole development . . . in those days we were getting fifty bucks an hour for D9s and the chain was thrown in free. Just to put things into perspective on the scale of clearing back then. For many years all we did was pulling with three tractors while we could keep them going, otherwise with the normal two. As an incentive to keep things running smoothly we paid every one in the camp a dollar an hour bonus for every hour over 180 hours that each tractor was billed out for every month. With a good run we could go way over and if you consider that each tractor flattened (say) 15 acres an hour it comes to a lot of country put on the ground by one little outfit. Cheers.
Thanks Tones, and thanks for the reply! Most of the wood is junk poplar or cottonwood, if it firewood quality il ask if i can set it aside and take it home to heat my shop, but around here the farmers dont want to pay for it to be hauled off and they wont give u enough to make it worth it. One job I did, the customer had me just shove all the trees into the next tree line and ditch and thats where it stays. I dig my hole 8-10' deep but before i do that i strip off all of the top soil all around where the hole will be so i dont cover it up (its pretty scarce round here), as long as the little bit of ash thats sleft over is 4.5'below surface or more they never see or have issues from it. Just a common practice around here I guess. When I backfill its done in lifts and theres always a slight mound but not a whole lot of settling if any that ive come across yet over top of the ash thats left. Not digging a hole would save ALOT of time and i never thought of the enzymes in the dirt being burnt away. If there are any Good trees ...sometimes...the land owner has a logging company come it but usually not. Easiest way ive ever gotton firewood though! now im lazy at it haha. **Enviranazi*** lol im going to remember that. I like that better than tree hugger.
Yeh Scrub, pretty much of the private jobs I do is for Lifestylers on small blocks who what it cleaned up for grazing so the stumps aren't a problem as long as they are to ground level. I tell them I don't kill trees, just lower them and when they reshoot they hit then with a dose of Roundup or Tordon as a spot spray. The mulcher I own is only a little jigger in the scheme of things, 140hp, but if stumps are an issue I can deal with those with the stumpgrinder attachment. I think most of the good agricultural land has already been cleared by folk such as yourself and what's left is marginal at best but been let go by the previous owners. Mate you would hate to be in the landclearing game with all the BS. For quite some time in QLD you can't clear trees without employing the services of a fauna spotter-catcher. Some of these deadbeat mongrels won't let anymore than 1 hectare a day be cleared and they have the full force of the law to back them. You got out at a good time
Yair . . . Thanks Tones Amen to that. I think I saw the best of the years when it came to developing the agricultural sector of our country . . . it's been all down hill since then. We are in a bit of a reprieve at the moment with fuel prices but in years to come I am afraid much of the cleared country will revert back to timber due to costs to maintain it . . . suckers never sleep. This subject really interests me and I hope you continue to post about your trials and tribulations . . . and maybe some pictures? Cheers.
This is a good topic, I agree with the others just post away and you'll get responses. IMO All trees have a purpose, I would burn anything in my wood stove/furnace as long as it was dry(ole wifes tail about burning pine ... is just that a tail). Mulch can be made, or trees can be mulched up into pellets for pellet stoves. I now live in TN and can't believe the waste. I saw lots of waste in the Adirondacks but down here I am shocked. I also see a lot of clearing for the get rich while cattle prices are high. The problem with this is that many folks don't realize trees actually replace water when an area is in a drought. Not saying I'm against cutting in fact I feel it is one of our best natural resources. What makes me mad is the local (greed) cutter that does not care for the land, only leaves a clear cutting mess, "get the $$$$$$and get onto the next place as quick as possible. The problem with this is it brings on bad publicity for the ones doing a respectable job.
I agree maddog, being an avid bowhunter/outdoorsman, I love the timber. Its bitter sweet since part of my job was to destroy it, but i hate seeing timber looged out. I think if I ever owned any, it would fore sure be selective logged. On the upside of "trash logging", The land owner is usually pretty appreciative if you ask to clean it up for him. You have all the firewood you need from the tops. Almost every year I rent or borrow a sklidloader and grapple bucket and get a couple seasons of wood out for myself and the land owner if they burn.
Yep Maddog, when I look at a block that has to be cleared I search out timber that can be used elsewhere. The long forgotten substance that is very important to sustain life is topsoil at pretty much the reason I got into this game and help ole mother nature make the stuff. That's why I may come across a little dirty about burning but understand that nobody has the same sized pockets.
Tones, I agree with burning if that is the most effective way. I just moved down this way(TN) and have a beautiful chunk of land. Down the road away they clear cut, but what a mess, the sad part is that there is enough millable logs laying on the ground I could easily build a big garage, large house plus who knows what else.
You sure got that right Scrub, dealing with eucalyptus regrowth is a never ending job in our part of the world. Brigalow regrowth has mostly been tamed with blade ploughs and cutter bars but the value of eucalyptus country generally precludes these methods. One paddock we had success with recently was about 900acs and, over the years, had been rungbarked first, then tordoned (stem injection), then pulled, but still had box regrowth 6-10 inches diam. as thick as. We had two tractors at the gate, ready to pull it again, when we received about 3 inches of rain. After the rain cleared, we waited two days, then made a start. Certainly wasn't the most efficient pulling job, struggling to get enough traction to pull a decent width, but it tipped the smallest of suckers over roots and all. Left it a few months then raked it. That was about 5 yrs ago, and now it still has only a few bushes per acre. I reckon if we had pulled it dry we would be planning our next treatment by now. Tones, I've often thought about some sort of cutting head for a smallish exc. that would tip this sort of timber over, then squirt the stump with herbicide. Could use it in places where there is too much rock or not enough regrowth to justify raking,normally we would use stem injection here but it's getting harder to find someone to do this sort of work at a reasonable price. What do you think? Cheers, Greg
Hey Greg, a mulcher head on an excavator is a good thing to use in rocky ground. I recommend to my costumers to let the suckers grow about 1' high then spray. The reason being they will take the poison down better and they don't need as much spray, leaving suckers to grow higher just adds to a bigger bill. Have you seen stone crushers that are mounted on tractors? If not have a look at the FAE and AHWI web sites.
Tones, I was thinking more along the lines of a saw which would leave a stump which could be sprayed immediately, making it a quick,one pass, operation. It is grazing country that is routinely burnt every couple of years so Iam not too concerned about residue or stumps left behind. This feller buncher would be nice on an exc., but might be a bit of an over kill at around US$26000. This might be a more sensible option, wouldn't be too hard to rig up a spray nozzle on the saw. http://www.turbosaw.com/index.php Cheers, Greg
Gees Greg,Now that has jogged the memory bank. Years ago I worked for Forestry Plantations QLD at Byfield and there was a contractor from WA with 4 ton excavators that had felling heads on then for interrow clearing with the exact same system on them as you describe, they had a hydraulic chainsaw setup and a spray all done by the operator.
Here's some job pic's View attachment 132080 View attachment 132081 View attachment 132082 To give you an idea of size the tractor is 2.5m high at the sweeps The last photo is of a new easement clearing job, no chainsaws and trees where not allowed to be dropped into the uncleared area. The job was 2.5ks long and 3 days work.
Job site on Thursday, cutting fencelines
Wow, what a view Tones!
Yair . . . Nice one Tones In for one would be interested in more pictures . . . and I am a little disappointed there so little interest in this thread. Cheers.
Yep Scrub, totally agree. If you ever get to do a road trip this corner of Oz is well worth a look ( Sapphire Coast NSW). The town in the background is Bermagui.
I'm interested, Scrub, but unfortunately here in the Old Country you'd never find a block needing clearing that would warrant anything bigger than two Kubota tractors and a bicycle security chain. Land clearance here is generally pulling down factories and filling in mined-out area, ready for the next crop of Lego houses for the yuppies. I have heard of chaining over here, but it has always been a rare occurrence.
I'm bumping this thread in the hope that it will become popular. Scrub is at one end of the spectrum where he's cleared dozens (hundreds?) of acres a day with specialised adaptations to his machines, I'm at the other end, never having cleared more than a couple of acres at a time, and making do with whatever is to hand, e.g. Crawler loader, small/medium dozers, excavators, TLB's, skid steers without brush hogs or mulchers, you get the picture. I'm interested to see some of the intermediate solutions out there, and what's available in other countries. I'm expecting CM and others will have a good bit to contribute?
I'll contribute to keep this thread going. I use a rental machine when I need to mulch. It saves the upkeep on my own machine and it's a good money maker, even with the rental fees. These pics are from a new 5 acre campground I did locally. I also did the pads and roads, but that's for another thread.
The largest single track of land I've cleared was just shy of 60 acres, I've cleared 100's added together. The way we tackled the 60 acre job was first had the loggers come in and clear cut the entire site. They took everything. Tackled the stumps and brush with a 325DL, 321CLCR, 320CL, 2 - 953's and a 725 artic. We had to use an air curtain burner for brush burning so the brush had to be hauled to the burner. The 325 was the main stump puller followed by the 953's raking brush into windrows. The 321 loaded the 725 and the 320 stayed at the air burner, constantly loading brush into the pit. Also had a D6N to maintain haul roads. This was a residential development so the trees, brush and stumps had to be grubbed and topsoil stripped before we started moving earth.
JND, how does the Kubota go driving a mulcher? You do a good job BTW
Here's a job in progress. the land was cleared years ago then sold as a life style block(400 acres). Now the current owners have lost interest in it and a scruby (Sifton) bush has taken over. It has no food value what so ever, even goats will lose condition eating it. I've only got about 120 acres more to do.
It has good power, but needs better hydraulic cooling for the mulching head.
Hey Buckwild, thanks relighting this thread. TBH I forgotten about it.
I’m all about making trees disappear
I'll throw in a vote for such a forum index as Land Clearing. I'm working on my 24th year of mulching services and what few posts/forum that I find on mulching are spread about and difficult to find. Another index for Spider Excavators would be great, also. Brian Hay used to have a forum SpiderExcavators.net ?? years ago but personal events in his life caused that to fall by the wayside. It was a very good forum while it lasted. I'm currently setting up a mulcher on this A91F. I should have it up and running in the next couple of weeks for preliminary testing. It should be interesting.
Nothing better than removing nasty ol Bois-Dark trees
Clearing land for my house. Not as big of an op like most of you guys!
Good read and right what I've been thinking about. The brush has moved in from the fence line 20 or so feet over many years prior to me getting the land. Could use my 955 (would need to add more cab guards) maybe to clear some. Many places have some steep hill sides and some rocks are close to the surface to slightly exposed Was thinking of renting a skidsteer with mulching head. Looking at Sunbelt and CAT dealer for renting.
Some more pics.
Nice pond, Matt! How deep is it ? Is it stocked with fish ?
Thanks. It ended up being about 9-10 feet deep. One spot from digging shale is a hole I had the excavation guys leave, that's probably close to 15 feet. All spring fed for now. I haven't stocked it yet, my buddies threw a half a dozen smallmouth in there last year and haven't seen any floating. I've got plenty of frogs though so probably this summer I'm going to stock with some largemouth and maybe try some brown trout and see if they live. Last August when pond was finished And finally full Halloween night Some frog eggs this year
Very nice. I like the jog in the side of it. Must be a very wet area. All that shale and the pond is full.
Some snaps taken back in the 1990's.
Thanks. It's very wet, springs all over. I have one good leak in the bank from when I put in the standpipe, hopefully I can put some plastic down or something and slow it enough to let the bank settling more take care of it
That's awesome. Referencing those pics, did you just hook to each tree and yank it out whole? It almost looks like in your second post that using two dozers and the chain like a drag net, you can pop all the small trees out of the ground and then the dozers go back and push them out of the way. Not sure if I'm mistaken, curious about the technique there
Big tractors and relatively small timber... not all pulling went as easy as this.
Matt ; There is a product called Bentonite that is used quite often to plug leaks in ponds. I have seen it used in borrow pits that leaked. We used to get it by the semi load for filling slurry trenches around landfills.The stuff is awesome.
Looks like a heap are snapping off. Going to be not much fun ploughing that. Box country as well, so spewy soil when wet.
I’ve seen it called anchor chaining. There’s other posts here with that name.
We just call it pulling and young fellas seem to like doing it.
Are we still talking about tree clearing RC?
This video highlights just how brutally efficient the practice is at doing what it does.
LOL!!
I have heard of that. Can that be used while the pond is full? Or would I have to drain it below the leak spot and then add the bentonite?
Drain or pump it down and expose the leaking area for the most effective way to apply it. We used to get it by the semi-loads. It has the consistency of talcum powder.
Sounds good, thanks. I'll have to give that a shot
The joys of working deep in the woods after months of rain The mud was up to the bottom of the door before I forced the head down to raise up the front end.
Came across this video. An interesting contraption. For small areas where it is not worth finding a second dozer and chain it could be a handy thing to have.