This was a winter project winter before last. I wanted to get into laser grading but wanted a unique nich. Every system on the market was wrong for what I wanted to do- grading slabs, lawns, above ground pools, pole buildings-anything tight but needing precision. Depending on material it will go +/- 1/8th, have done as much as a acre a day. The photos are leveling for an above ground pool. The machine is a ASV RC 30. My first post with pictures, got my fingers crossed. Hope you all enjoy!
Mate I have been thinking about something similar. I am into my first machine (BOBCAT T110) and believe there is a nich here in Australia for something very similar. I was thinking of a 4 in 1 bucket or landplane but mounting a laser removable receiver. I would be interested to see how your set up goes.
That is sweet! We've talked about something like this but haven't seen anything out there. For doing smaller stuff it would be great.
That is a sweet system! Closer pics? Where in wa.are you?
Have a look at Hockey Machinery in Cairns , they have a ' GEO-BLADE ' attachment up here . I have been thinking along the same lines , we just do house pads and looking a bit more at speed and effectively to be able to compete . Cheers
I would love to hear more details on this if you get a chance...
The ASV is out on a job, so no more pics for a while, but I will give as many details as posible. I made this because of frustration with grading slabs in pole buildings- strings, a guy on a stick, etc takes too long. The reciever is an Apache Bullseye 6, I could have got a cheaper machine control reiever, but this one will mount on the boom of my mini, and will auto adjust over 60 degrees on boom angle during cutting. The control box is a Apache CB26 box with proportional control, the valve is a open center valve, do not have the make handy. Total cost with misc hardware was 5600.00. Steel was 600.00 including a box scraper, I used a 5' box scraper bought at a farm supply, modified it. Since the bushings ( or lack there of) on my ASV are gone, I have a set up that will bolt the coupler to the loader arms, the end being a very ridgid simple set up for grading. There is no bucket curl to throw off the laser as this is bolted up solid. Going forward it works ok, but where it really shines is backwards. The biggest drawback is the blade itself in the box scraper does not move, the only action is up and down with the arms. You have to think a bit more on how to do the job. Only a issue on the very smallest of jobs, where you have limited directions to go at it. ( inside a very small garage) I cant speak highly enough of the Apache products and support I recieved. Programing the setup was a little intimidating at first there are alot of adjustments to be made in the box. Now it all seems alot easier. It did not take long doing this kind of work to realize a dual plane laser was needed. I bought a David White, works great, controls are a little hard to use. Will post some pics as soon as possible, hope this helps.
I was wondering if you looked at any of the retail setups which do baically what you have done (I think you are into it about half of what they sell for), and, if so, how did they compare and what would you do if you didn't have the fabrication abilitieis that you have? Thanks Karl
BTW, I have a Tak TL140 and would really like a setup like this! BTW, I am in Portland and wouldn't mind looking at your setup some time!
I looked and priced alot of retail set ups. I passed for a couple of reasons. In the market I am going after they all are too cumbersome, cant get as close as I would like to walls and other obstacles. I can take this inside a shop and grade 99% of the job. The second reason was cost- when I priced, the ones I saw go from 20-25k, and I could have cut at least $1000 of my cost with a cheaper reciever and valve. But like I said the reciever mounts on my mini, eliminates a man checking grade, and from that perspective, it has saved me alot more than $1000.00. "what would you do if you didn't have the fabrication abilitieis that you have?" Dont be too quick to praise my fabrication skills, I have seen alot better on this site and you will note there are no close ups of my bubble gum/ pigeon sheet welds. Seriously though, to answer your question I would try my best to learn those skills it would take to do the job. I do not know how this would work on a TL 140. My guess is really good, if designed for the large increase in size and horsepower. Thanks to all for the positive comments on this, that is one of the things that makes this site so good!
Thanks for the info and mamybe I'll pull my welder out and see if I can still get some semblance of a bead out of it! I can't afford an off the shelf system and like the thought of having one tailored specifically for the machine is a plus! And you're right, the info that comes from this site is just awesome!
Thanks for more details on it. Don't feel bad on the welding stuff, I think the end product is whats important. I love the laser grading stuff but is so out of reach moneywise(I think). If you could show some more pictures that would be great(or video too!). So you just go up and down, no rollback? You have me thinking about this as you said more basic laser stuff could have been used...
Yeah, no roll back at all just up and down. Any movement there will throw settings off, so it is bolted down tight. Will be sub grading a yard this week, I will take some pics or a vid for sure. Of everything but the welds, that is. Look for it in about 4-5 days, Thanks
That is sooo sweet! I'll have to get the valve number and all the specs from you. I can justify this. I can see this on my dozer.
I know you mentioned getting in to tight spaces but would having the front wheels(like the other models) help? It would be harder to fab then... What about 'skidshoes' for the box to ride on? How could you use a regular quicktach and not goof up the grading ablity? You must just leave this on the machine all the time?
Lil'Puss- the valve I used was selected based on the flow, 10 GPM. I can put you in touch with the company I bought it from, Tennesee Hydraulics. I can pm you his e-mail. He is very knowledgable on electric valves. This would be an easy job on your dozer, as you would have to fab very little. Is you Dozer 6 way? It would be so nice to use a 2 function valve, one for tilt, one for up-down. Stuve- the wheels would be great if I was doing alot of fields, or other very big jobs. with the wheels, you get the "grader" effect and is alot more accurate. To give you an idea what I do with it, my first job was inside a new riding arena. 45000 sq ft, and the grade left by the excavator was very bad. I had to grade in and around many obstacles- support beams, stalls, etc. When done, it was within 1/2", no sense in any better. Could not have been done as well with wheels IMO. When grading, the box goes where the laser tells it to, shoes would not be needed. It is a regular quick attach, ( I promise more pics) it is not on the machine all the time. Changeover is about 7 minutes, 4 hydraulic conections, bolt up the coupler to the loader arm, wire up the box and away you go. 90% of what I do with it is backwards like any box scraper it is drug not pushed. 15 years ago I had another "idea", made alot of money-for the patent attorneys. So anyone is welcome to run with this. Good luck!
Wow, awesome thread. I have been wanting to do something just like this for a while Can't wait to see more pics!
More Laser Grading Pictures Here are a few of the pictures requested. Top picture is a shot of tie in to aux hydraulics to feed valve, next shows the flow from the valve to the loader arm cylinders. I originally had stop valves to prevent back pressure against the spool valve, but was told they were not neccessary. 3rd picture is attachment right before installation. Electric valve is on left side of grader. Next is a lawn being graded out, 2.5% grade away from house. About 1/2 way through leveling with the laser. Last shot is the lock to prevent any motion on bucket cylinders. I thought of several ways to do this, this was the best I could come up with. If I was to do it again, and maybe I will this winter, I would set the lock up so it uses a 1/2 spacer, I am a little worried about cylinder rams being jammed all the way back. Any comments on this? Once again, thanks for all the positive feedback!
That's a beautiful brown carpet you laid out I'm getting close to installing this setup on my little 6-way dozer blade, but have to ask if you are using power beyond or auxiliary hydraulics? I don't have aux. hydraulics but I have power beyond capabilities. Did you use a proportioner valve? Didn't notice.
I tied into aux hydraulics. Goes from there to valve then straight to loader arm cylinders. I wanted to keep it as simple as I could.
Got your PM thanks, will call him on Tues. I have power beyond and a 7 gpm Prince PTO pump, should be good to go. Will see if this valve will work using the two station sub plate for lift & tilt, just tee into the lines. http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6136&catname=hydraulic The only problem with bottoming out the rams is that the nut holding the piston to the rod will be hitting the cylinder end and possibly mushrooming it over time due to vibration.
I was also concerned about making metal inside hydraulics, like you say by mushrooming ram. I dont think it is though. What type of work will you target with this?
Spreading gravel & topsoil, building pads, drives, maybe a paddock or outside arena. Nothing too big. Might go with single slope if the work warrants. Where abouts are you located, don't want to cut into your rice bowl.
What I learned today: Laser Grade only has the LR-50 package available @ $3,500.00. Tennessee Hydraulics has a two (actually four) function 12v proportional control valve for me @ $3,152.00. I didn't ask but I assume this is all PLUS SHIPPING (The valve at Surplus Center won't work well on the dozer because it's not proportional, just on-off). I can see this costing $7k easy by the time it's installed.
Yeah, thats an exspensive date. I'm in the Cheney/Spokane area, we got a pretty big rice bowl. Thas funny! I could do 95% of my jobs w/ single plane. 7K is tough in this economy. E-bay used? Tough to buy anything there, that is not new.
Nice job 74. Thinking about doing the same on my Kubota SVL 75 with an 84" Bradco 6 way Dozer blade. I found the following websites helpful. http://www.apache-laser.com/product/tornadof1.htm http://www.laser-grade.com/bulltornado.htm
Laser Grade company won't sell to me because I live too far away from them, and they wouldn't be able to help me with the calibration. ***? Did I just fall of the turnip truck?? They told me to contact Trimble (they allegedly own Spectra and Apache). When I went to their Dealer Locator they listed a local dealer that only vaguely knew what I was talking about and referred me to the local Caterpillar dealer instead. So, at this point I'm waiting for a quote from Cat. I'm already sitting down, but I'm expecting at least double the price.
Wow, that's crazy. Did you speak to Don Foster? It's been my experience with him that he will sell to anyone, anywhere. He even tries to sell products outside of the territory set by his suppliers.
Calibration was not that hard, took me three hours- 2 1/2 of that was really reading the manual. It is something you should know and understand anyway, IMO. In the field you sometimes make adjustments depending on the accuracy you want, valve speed, or soil conditions etc. You are best off knowing how to do it. I can PM you the guy I worked with from Apache, he was great.
I have another email in to Don Foster, and now Mark Kalamar at NC Machinery (where I used to work), the guy in charge of Trimble equipment sales, won't return my calls. Are times really that good out there that potential customers just get blown off? I'll keep on trying, somewhere someone will sell me a control system. Unbelieveable!
Got the email quote from Cat today: $14,421.15, and that's for a genuine Trimble system. Maybe that includes installation too? It also includes $550.00 for calibration and training, how about them apples? We will talk soon.