Backhoe that is. OK, my new [to me] 580CK has a pretty good leak coming out of the BH control tower. There are so many valves,hoses, and connections in there, Im a little lost.:beatsme Any tips on tracking the sorce of the leak? Tricks of the trade?? Any thing common??? All the hoses look good. No real bad ones in there.
Degrease and pressure wash the area. Let it dry then wipe off any leftover oil. Run machine look for leaks. If it doesn't leak have someone raise the boom against the stops and then check for leaks. It might take awhile to see the leak. Do this for boom down but don't go to the stops just the pressure of lifting the machine a bit is enough. Then do crowd, swing etc. WARNING STAY CLEAR!!!! WHILE THE BOOM ETC. IS MOVING KEEP YOUR HANDS AND HEAD OUT OF THERE!!!! ESPECIALLY WHILE SWINGING!!!! USE AN OPERATOR YOU CAN TRUST!! I don't know your machine but 95% of the time it's a loose fitting or an oring . Good luck and BE CAREFUL.
Oh I hear ya on the safty aspect. That was a worry of mine. I know on my other Hydrolic stuff, I can put some pressure to it, and sometimes see it, but this has a LOT of swinging steel in the aera!!!!!!
I picked of a few cans of engine degreaser. Ive cleaned it good a few time, and its looking pretty good. Im going to hit it one more time, and check it out. BTW. How do you all get into those tight spaces and tighten/replace hoses? Do you use special wrences?? Does not seem to be room for a normal wrence in there.
Oil may be leaking from the spool seals. Those hard to get hoses are loosened with a crowsfoot wrench. However Case, I understand, has the best ones, with built-in extension, probably made by OTC. I bought a Snap-On wrench, 12 point, after being concerned about the spring-e-ness inherent in this type of wrench. Sure enough it slips. Some here, who work at Case may add to this, I hope, and maybe the tool is still available. Phil
I purchased three different size crowsfoot wrenches from a Case dealer last year for the same application. They are in fact made by OTC. The largest one (1 1/8") was $55.00. But believe me they are well worth the money. I tried other brands and even homemade ones but the OTC brand are real time and temper savers. You can find them in the Case Parts list as TOOLS or do a search for crowfoot.
Looks like a good little mess s1120. I agree with Phil, your probably gonna find you have leaky spool seals. If that's what it is, I'd be tempted to pull entire control valve assy and re-seal. Yes, it would be a PITA, but just replacing seals on one spool wouldn't be an easy task in itself. And yes, good crowfoot wrenches are a handy tool for those. Another handy tool for hyd connections is Snap On angle wrenches. Snap On is the only mfg that makes angle wrenches with a 30 degree offset on one end and 60 degree on the opposite end. All other brands are 15 and 60 degree offsets. Heck...I've got a 15 degree offset on my standard wrenches! That makes buying a 15 / 60 wrench like buying half a wrench.
OK, well I got it nice and clean, and ran her a bit, and see the leak. I was hoping it was a hose... but that would be two easy. Its is coming from one of the valves. Its starting low on the valve. Not where the hoses go in. Is there a common place?? Under that bottom cam is just the releaf adjustment screw right? Also it leaks all the time the tractor is running. Not just when using the hoe. Looks like a REAL PITA to pull that apart!!!!:Banghead:Banghead OK... so on that end.... Is there any way to lock the hoe in transport posision, and unhook the hoses? I realy dont use the hoe much, and if I could just disconect it, and only hook up the hoses when I need it, it will buy me some time before I tear it apart.
Tinkerer, thank you very much for the info, I don't recall my local Case dealer was very co-operative when asked that question, it's bad for business I guess. Under the caps are centering springs as I recall. Remove the spring and the spool will slide out the top, or up and down enough to replace the seals. There is a seal on each end of the valve body. Sometimes the spools get scored where the linkage attaches. I think you may have to remove the hoe but maybe not the valve assembly, to replace all the spool seals. Phil
Well what scares me is that if you look at the pic, you will see the mounting bolts for that leaking cap are diferent then the rest. Im thinking someone was in there before... Is a total reseal dooable at home? Something I should send out? Anyone have a ballpark of what a reseal job would cost at a shop??
Phil has it right on. Pull the cap , then pull the centering spring (it's usually held on by a small bolt). Then remove the linkage from the other end. Then depending on clearance pull the spool all the way out or slide it up and down enough to replace the seals. The seals are recessed in the housing and sometimes just and oring. Since someone has tried it before you may have a scored spool or maybe they replaced with the wrong seals or if it's a lip seal put it in back wards. ( I've seen allot of crazy stuff done) I'd get the seals from case pull it apart and see what's going on. It's a fairly simple job. I don't know your machine but if the hydraulic tank is higher than the valve body drain it first!!!
Going through the Case online parts lookup, it seems that this is the valve style I have. Looks like the spool valve comes out the top.. Any kindof a guide to rebuilding these?
Man I just went through it in my last post! Hard to see the numbers but take out the cap bolts #2. Pull off the cap #3. Unloosen the bolt #4 then the spring and parts #5 and #7 come off. Then pull the spool out or move it up and down to pull out the seals #8,9,10. there are 2 # 9's. It's really quite simple.
As oarwhat indicated, get the seals from Case, just in case they are quad rings. Taking the hoe off a CK is not difficult once the tension rod nuts are loose. Phil
Oh man, had to jump back in here. Keep in mind guys, s1120 asked if a reseal was "doable at home", when tends to make me think he has limited experience with these type of repairs. Yes, s1120, it is doable. But, certain things have to be done. First of all, the backhoe components, i.e., boom, stick, bucket, must be secured from movement when spool is removed. It's like this s1120; if you were to have the boom up in stowed position, and were to pluck the boom spool out of it, your world is gonna come crashing down. Not pretty. All cylinders should be completely relaxed with no load or pressure on them before removing spools for reseal. Second, yes, you can remove item 2 screws and item 3 cap to access item 4 screw. But be very careful in removing item 4 screw. There's going to be nothing for you to grip on that end of the spool to keep spool from turning to unscrew #4 screw. Most folks get a grip on opposite end of spool where the linkage connects, then give #4 screw a twist to unscrew. But what can happen, if #4 is very tight and takes much force to break loose, you can twist the spool at the narrow port millings along the spool, they twist very easily because they are so thin. This could result in a spool not free in the valve body bore. Just be mindful not to put a great deal of force when removing #4 screw.
yes it is do able at home but BE CAREFUL bad things can happen if you are not make sure the stick is down no pressure on the cyls before you start like atco said dont put to much pressure on #4 when you try to loosen it it will break which will make your problems worse any other questions just ask good luck
Thanks for the info guys. Well as ATCO said, wile I have a lot of repair expereance, Ive worked on just about everything with wheels, engines, trannys, boats, tractors, cars, everything, and I have worked with Hydrolics before.. made splitters, worked with the systems on my Case/Ingersoll Garden tractors, I have never had a valve apart before, so thanks for the input. I was a little worryed about having a load on the cyl's when I get in there. Now if I remove the unit, will I have a issue setting the hoe up like a tripod like they show in the manual??
Atco good points glad you jumped in!!!!! S1120 I don't know why you want to pull the entire valve body . Thats alot of work and you may find the spool is scored and it's too expensive to repair. Then you'll have to put it all back together and deal with the leak anyways.
Sorry, when I said remove the unit, I meant the whole Hoe, not just the valve block. Hey... get out of my head will you. That is a option also. This is only for personal use around my land. I realy will not use the hoe THAT much. Mostly I will be using the loader. If its too pricy, I will chain the unit up, and disconnect the hoese to it untill I want to use it. Im going to head to the Case dealer on saterday, and see if they have the seals. If not I will order them, and give it a shot. Now I see its not that big of a job.
OK so last thing for now. What is a safe way to support the hoe wile its off the tractor wile Im working on the valve? I was thinking of blocking op the main frame, but whats a good way to suport the boom/mast so I can releave pressure to do the valve? Dont want this thing crashing down on me.
I always block up the main frame of the hoe, or the 'box' around the valve section, for lack of proper term. I block it on each side just under the base of the outrigger. I do this just before the tractor is driven ahead. I also use 2 long posts on an angle, against each side of the top of the boom, to hold it steady. Last time I did this on a 680, I parked it with the boom along side a sea container, and used a chain to brace it from falling over. A tree would have worked as well. I put another block under the swing tower pivot pin to keep the 'frame' level. Most, if not all of the cylinder hoses have to be taken off the valve assembly, before the spool caps come off, as I remember. I relieve the pressure on all the cylinders just before disconnecting the big quick coupler. The hoe settles on the blocks and the boom braces will tighten. Phil
Well, that was my suggestion oarwhat, and here's why; not saying he has to, but he's going to have to go through a good bit of work just to repair a single leaking spool seal. And on an older machine, it's very likely if one spool seal is leaking, won't be long until the other old spool seals are going to be leaking, might as well replace all the spool seals while you've got the unit disassembled to access components. And if all the spool seals are old and tired, you can bet those o-rings between the spool sections are going to be hard as a brick, how long is it going to be until one of those fail and it's leaking again? That's my logic, if I'm going through the trouble to access that control valve, I think I'd rip it apart and fix it to be done with it for a while. Just my humble opinion.
I had only one spool leaking in my assembly. I decided to reseal all of them. That is when I found someone before me had installed the wrong type of O rings in three different spools. As ATCO said, sooner or later the others were doomed to leak also.
Phil, Thanks for the info. I have a place that has a few trees out back, that would be perfect. I also think I have a nice steel support for the boom laying around. Thanks! As for the valve... Ill have to scope it out once I get the hoe off. See what i want to do. As was said, its over 40 years old.... maybe better to just do the whole thing, and then my kids wont have to worry about it down the road. Any tips of the trade to keep the hoses in order???
Atco I agree 100% I didn't know he had to pull the hoe to get at the valve. Randy
Now you got the idea s1120. Keep the hoses in order? Center punch and hammer. When you go to take a hose connection loose, punch a single dot on the valve fitting and the nut of the hose fitting that's connected to it. On the next hose connection, punch two dots with the center punch. The next, three dots. Pretty easy to do and don't wash off. Same thing if you decide to take the valve sections apart. Matching punch marks for each valve section.
To identify hoses I use colored Tie Wraps. After using all the colors once I then use two Tie Wraps same color or different colors. They will fit nicely on the steel fittings the hoses are attached to.
Yep, colored tie wraps work real well Tinkerer.
Great idea with the tiewraps, and I have used the punched dot thing on engines I have rebuilt before to keep bearing caps in order. I did not eaven think if it for this. Thanks!
Well a few years later, and I have been living wiht the leak, but its gotten too bad now to put up with it. So Im going in!!!! I belive im going to reseal the whole thing wile im in there...its due.... SO looking for the crowfoot flare nut wrenches now!!!
I just completed doing the reseal/rbld of the backhoe valves. I pulled the whole valve bank so I could work on it on the bench. All I did to ensure the pressure was off was to extend the boom, put the outriggers on the floor and cycle all the spools with the engine off. As i removed each hose, I bagged the end of he hose with a sandwich bag secured with colored tie wraps for coding. Copied the page from the parts manual and drew a diagram of where the colored hoses went. It's not that hard a job.
Thaks for the tips! I havent been here in a bit, and havent touched the hoe yet. SO thats still on my todo list!!